Ice Knife and Witch Bolt as Cantrips?

[Zaile]

Would witch bolt and ice knife be better as cantrips?

Ice knife would need to be reduced to 1d6/1d6 burst scaling.

Witch bolt still requires concertation.

Thoughts?

[MrCharlie]

Would witch bolt and ice knife be better as cantrips?

Ice knife would need to be reduced to 1d6/1d6 burst scaling.

Witch bolt still requires concertation.

Thoughts?
No and yes. Ice knife would be pretty busted, actually, for a cantrip. It's actually in an okay place, it's a first level blast that does mediocre damage and has a small AOE, putting it on par with other first level blasts. It's on some spell sheets that other blasts aren't.

Witch bolt can't be saved unless you just remake the entire spell and abandon all the current trappings. Concentration for reactivated single target damage is a mediocre strategy to begin with, and any further limitations (can't switch target, can't move, damage is awful) makes it worthless.

[dmhelp]

Would witch bolt and ice knife be better as cantrips?

Ice knife would need to be reduced to 1d6/1d6 burst scaling.

Witch bolt still requires concertation.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't do ice knife because it is also area of effect. Witch bolt I think works ok if you drop the follow up damage.

I allow:

Single target spells that spell (melee/ranged) attack may also be cast as cantrips (assuming they are known/prepared as a leveled spell) with the following base damage dice: chaos bolt d8 (loses leap, but can choose damage type from any of the d8s rolled), chromatic orb d8, guiding bolt d8, inflict wounds d10, melf's acid arrow d6 (still does 2d4 delayed hit and half miss damage), ray of sickness d4, witch bolt d12 (loses follow up damage/duration)


So witch bolt does superior damage vs firebolt, but is limited by the 30' range.

[Zaile]

I like the suggestions so far!

My main reason for doing ice knife is it would be on par with Word of Radiance and useable at range. Word of radiance and sword burst are both terrible for any caster as their maximum benefit requires you to be surrounded. The absolute worst place for any caster.

What about an Ice Knife that has a 5' burst targeting 4 squares/Dex save? There was a similar effect in 3.5 with a feat that gave a scaling damage 4-square fireball called "Fiery Burst." Super great feat.

[Witty Username]

Take acid splash, change damage to cold, ice knife as a cantrip.

Witch bolt, change 1st level to cantrip. Clarify that the higher slots are the cantrip level upgrades. It probably wouldn't be overpowered.

One last thing, if you use the witch bolt changes, up poison spray range to 15ft and allow it a second target within 5ft. That cantrip needs love.

[Jon talks a lot]

2000 views, 4 replies, oof mate

[greenstone]

Ice knife is good where it is. For a 1st level spell it's got a lot going for it - single-target damage, AoE damage, some of which doesn't rely on an attack roll.

Throw out witch bolt. Instead, take the create bonfire cantrip and have it do lightning damage.

[Zaile]

2000 views, 4 replies, oof mate

You have good ratios, you have bad. I roll with it. :smallsmile: