Metamagic Adept and Font of Magic

[Silpharon]

Let's say there's a multiclass PC with level 2 Sorcerer, the Metamagic Adept feat, and enough other levels in spellcasting classes to have level 4 spell slots. They would have two "natural" sorcery points, and two from the feat... 4 total.

Imagine all 4 sorcery points are spent, and the PC wanted to generate more. Would Font of Magic (received at level 2 Sorcerer) allow conversion of a 4th level spell slot to get 4 more points?

The wording of Font of Magic says:
"You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level."

The wording of Metamagic Adept says:
"You gain 2 sorcery points to spend on Metamagic (these points are added to any sorcery points you have from another source but can be used only on Metamagic). You regain all spent sorcery points when you finish a long rest."

The parenthetical in the feat suggests one cannot go backwards, i.e. create a level 1 spell slot from the 2 sorcery points...

The specific-beats-general suggests that the 2 points from the feat are added to your "natural" points regardless of the phrasing in Font of Magic...

Thoughts?

[Zaile]

I would read it as yes, you can. SorLock abuses the same trick with pact magic slots. Your cap is still Sor level +2 but you can consume as many slots as you want during the day to refill, just can't go above 4.

[Luccan]

Let's say there's a multiclass PC with level 2 Sorcerer, the Metamagic Adept feat, and enough other levels in spellcasting classes to have level 4 spell slots. They would have two "natural" sorcery points, and two from the feat... 4 total.

Imagine all 4 sorcery points are spent, and the PC wanted to generate more. Would Font of Magic (received at level 2 Sorcerer) allow conversion of a 4th level spell slot to get 4 more points?

The wording of Font of Magic says:
"You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level."

The wording of Metamagic Adept says:
"You gain 2 sorcery points to spend on Metamagic (these points are added to any sorcery points you have from another source but can be used only on Metamagic). You regain all spent sorcery points when you finish a long rest."

The parenthetical in the feat suggests one cannot go backwards, i.e. create a level 1 spell slot from the 2 sorcery points...

The specific-beats-general suggests that the 2 points from the feat are added to your "natural" points regardless of the phrasing in Font of Magic...

Thoughts?

My reading would be that you can't regenerate the points from Metamagic Adept, although that comes more from my interpretation of the RAI rather than thinking through the RAW. I would allow Sorcerers to use their extra points from the feat any which way they please, because I think the restriction for them is silly, but it seems to me the designers intent was to allow Metamagic Adept's sorcery points only for Metamagic and only to be recovered on a long rest.

[Dualswinger]

RAW I’d say yes. You can replenish your MASP points with font, but the restriction to only use them on metamagic would remain.

[MaxWilson]

My first instinct was to say no, but after reviewing the wording of the abilities I think I'd say yes, that seems legal and I'd allow it with no questions asked, if I were using Tasha's feats.

[RSP]

I think yes, based off specific beats general. The wording of FoM is “You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level.” This seems the only restriction on turning slots to sorcerer points, and Metamagic Adept clearly overrides this rule (otherwise it would be pointless on a Sorcerer). Therefore, the new maximum is “shown on the table for your level+2.”

[MrStabby]

So it looks like if you have metamagic adept and you gain two levels of sorcerer then your sorcery points gain an extra functional restriction... which is a bit crazy. RAW if you pick up that second level of sorcerer then you cant have more SP than your level, though as a DM I would be inclined to ignore it.

I don't think there is a real rules conflict here; there are examples where the same resource from different sources doesn't stack (channel divinity springs to mind).

[MrCharlie]

So it looks like if you have metamagic adept and you gain two levels of sorcerer then your sorcery points gain an extra functional restriction... which is a bit crazy. RAW if you pick up that second level of sorcerer then you cant have more SP than your level, though as a DM I would be inclined to ignore it.

I don't think there is a real rules conflict here; there are examples where the same resource from different sources doesn't stack (channel divinity springs to mind).
Technically, those are different abilities though. They share a similar name but their rules text is different in a couple key ways. It's not the same resource.

The key here is that metamagic adept gives you sorcery points greater than normal, explicitly, and has no restrictions on how you regain them. Font of Magic provides a limitation that is explicitly broken by metamagic adept. As metamagic adept is more specific, font of magic needs to be interpreted in that context-your maximum sorcery points are thus level+2 (or technically, table+2).

[Silpharon]

Technically, those are different abilities though. They share a similar name but their rules text is different in a couple key ways. It's not the same resource.

The key here is that metamagic adept gives you sorcery points greater than normal, explicitly, and has no restrictions on how you regain them. Font of Magic provides a limitation that is explicitly broken by metamagic adept. As metamagic adept is more specific, font of magic needs to be interpreted in that context-your maximum sorcery points are thus level+2 (or technically, table+2).

This is how I read it too, but what do you make of "but can be used only on Metamagic" part of the feat? Is that to deny subclass abilities like from Aberrant Mind, or mixture with Font of Magic, or both? Maybe there are items that use sorcery points (I don't know of any)? Kind of strange to include this limitation.

[MrCharlie]

This is how I read it too, but what do you make of "but can be used only on Metamagic" part of the feat? Is that to deny subclass abilities like from Aberrant Mind, or mixture with Font of Magic, or both? Maybe there are items that use sorcery points (I don't know of any)? Kind of strange to include this limitation.
It does what it says it does-it prevents you from using it with other class features, or to make more spell slots. It does not say you can't regain these sorcery points with spell slots, and doesen't stop that mechanic from working.

It's almost saving the sorcerer from themselves, honestly-rarely are other uses worth it. But as the feat is named metamagic adept, it's entirely reasonable that this rules text is not indicative of any particular design intent besides that it remain used for metamagic.

[MrStabby]

Technically, those are different abilities though. They share a similar name but their rules text is different in a couple key ways. It's not the same resource.

The key here is that metamagic adept gives you sorcery points greater than normal, explicitly, and has no restrictions on how you regain them. Font of Magic provides a limitation that is explicitly broken by metamagic adept. As metamagic adept is more specific, font of magic needs to be interpreted in that context-your maximum sorcery points are thus level+2 (or technically, table+2).

Why would you consider metamagic adept more specific than font of magic?

I mean I get the idea of giving specificity priority, in the sense that an ability overrides the general rules is probably intended to do so - for example cunning action leting you dash as a bonus action. But here we just have two abilities, one on a feat that can be picked up by any class, and another a particular ability on one class - I don't get why we would say the feat is more specific. Within the abilities themselves both give allowences and both give restrictions - either not being able to use to recover spells or not being able to have more than your sorcerer level.

The thing is, there is no need for one to overrule the other. There is no conflict. This isn't like cunning action where the rules say it takes an action to dash but cunning action says it can be done with a bonus action. A limit on how many sorcery points you can have can coexist without any paradox alongside a limit to how they might be used.

I am not saying I would insist it be played that way, just that I would read it that way then discard my reading in favour of a more relaxed interpretation.

[RSP]

The thing is, there is no need for one to overrule the other. There is no conflict. This isn't like cunning action where the rules say it takes an action to dash but cunning action says it can be done with a bonus action. A limit on how many sorcery points you can have can coexist without any paradox alongside a limit to how they might be used.

Except there is: you can’t have both rules of “You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level” and “what you have on the table +2”.

[MrStabby]

Except there is: you can’t have both rules of “You can never have more sorcery points than shown on the table for your level” and “what you have on the table +2”.

Ah right. I think I see what you are getting at now.