Pass without Trace - how badly can we abuse it?

[Cikomyr2]

So, the wording of pass without trace:

A veil of shadows and Silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection. For the Duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage .

So.. Does it mean I can run over the snow, mud, etc.. Without leaving *any* footprint?

Could I charge through a mansion without care, and leaving no evidence of my passage whatsoever, despite me not caring a fig about traces I leave behind, like broken doors, ripped curtains, etc..?

[Mastikator]

Does a broken door count as a "trace"?

Edit- I'd probably say that if you kick in the door there won't be a shoe print on the door, so you won't be able to find any trace that you did it. But a broken door is a broken door.

[Segev]

So, the wording of pass without trace:

A veil of shadows and Silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection. For the Duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage .

So.. Does it mean I can run over the snow, mud, etc.. Without leaving *any* footprint?Yes.


Could I charge through a mansion without care, and leaving no evidence of my passage whatsoever, despite me not caring a fig about traces I leave behind, like broken doors, ripped curtains, etc..?That's a more interesting question. I think it more suggests that you do not accidentally scuff any carpets, knock over any vases or lamps, or otherwise cause unintentional marks of your passage to occur. It doesn't let you deliberately break things and not have them be broken, so if you smash through a door without opening it, it stays smashed. It gives you the control needed so you don't do things you don't mean to do that leave telltale signs of your passage, but if you intentionally cause changes to the environment, the spell doesn't unmake them. Otherwise, you also cannot cause harm to any creature (because their corpse and/or injuries might be a "sign of your passage") and can't open doors (because a door changing state would be "a sign of your passage" or pick up anything (because a missing treasure from the vault would be "a sign of your passage").

[Thunderous Mojo]

Most importantly, Pass Without Trace, eliminates bloody footprints.
The mayhem you perpetrate, is still visible, but your passage from one locus of mayhem to another is untraceable by non-magical means.

It can lead to great Horror Movie moments.

[Quoz]

Now I have a great scenario running through my head where some fey trickster casts this on a small herd of cattle in the middle of the night then runs them wild through a town. The place is trashed, but nobody saw or heard it occur and there is no sign of who did it or how it happened.

[Spiritchaser]

Now I have a great scenario running through my head where some fey trickster casts this on a small herd of cattle in the middle of the night then runs them wild through a town. The place is trashed, but nobody saw or heard it occur and there is no sign of who did it or how it happened.

All those cows would still have to pass a stealth check which in a typical town I’d consider ruling as impossible.

If it was an atypical town... (It’s written into a plot in a D&D campaign, of course it’s an atypical town) and I did rule it possible, then even at +10, some cow will likely fail.

Of course some other magic might just help with that

Edit: what actually happens to any cow pies that might fall during this rampage? Presumably they wouldn’t remain, but... where do they go? Is there some universal dimension for lost and banished things?

[JellyPooga]

It does suggest the possibility of social use. Vagrant adventurers tramping mud and filth through a wealthy merchants house or a royal apartment/receiving room is a common faux pas that this spell will handily avoid. It doesn't exactly make up for having a bath and changing into decent clothing for better reactions, but it could certainly add to a better reputation among the social elite.

[Contrast]

All those cows would still have to pass a stealth check which in a typical town I’d consider ruling as impossible.

In fairness, cows have a flat dex so with Pass Without Trace their average stealth roll would be 20 with a minimum of 11. A commoner has a passive perception of 10 so even if we don't apply a modifier for darkness/being asleep/inside (which we probably should) or use the group stealth rules, they're in the clear.

This of course assumes you can somehow convince the cows to attempt to move stealthily which is a separate issue entirely...

[Asisreo1]

In fairness, cows have a flat dex so with Pass Without Trace their average stealth roll would be 20 with a minimum of 11. A commoner has a passive perception of 10 so even if we don't apply a modifier for darkness/being asleep/inside (which we probably should) or use the group stealth rules, they're in the clear.

This of course assumes you can somehow convince the cows to attempt to move stealthily which is a separate issue entirely...
And people consider Speak with Animals a trash spell, smh.

[heavyfuel]

Honestly, I think most DMs would rule that unintentional traces disappear, but if you choose to break down a door then people will notice it was broken.

Technically not RAW, but that's how I think most DMs would rule.

However, the best abuse you can get with PWaT is the massive Stealth bonus. Giving everyone in the party an extra round because the enemies will spend their first Turn with the Surprised condition is huge. I'm a big believer that every character should be proficient in Stealth.

[Segev]

You won't get the cows in a stampede to make stealth checks, but you COULD rustle cattle with this and have all tracking of them indicate they just...disappeared.

I like the "don't track mud in the house" idea with it.

Use it as a butler or maid and nobody near you spills any tea, perhaps? Also good for "ninja wait-staff."

During a burglary, as long as you're sneak-thieving and not smash-and-grabbing, there won't be traces of your picks on locks, accidental doors or windows left open, tracks in the plush carpet (or scuffs on the hardwood floors), no fingerprints (if the setting is sophisticated enough to check for those), and with a +10 to Stealth, you're going to be hard-pressed to be caught.


New thought: "A veil of shadows and silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection," is the first line of the spell, which raises two questions: Is this veil of shadows and silence notable such that those who do see through your heightened stealth can tell you're obscured by them? Is the "veil of shadows" enough to count as dim lighting (giving Disadvantage on perception checks and allowing Shadow monks to teleport into or out of it)?

[Silly Name]

New thought: "A veil of shadows and silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection," is the first line of the spell, which raises two questions: Is this veil of shadows and silence notable such that those who do see through your heightened stealth can tell you're obscured by them? Is the "veil of shadows" enough to count as dim lighting (giving Disadvantage on perception checks and allowing Shadow monks to teleport into or out of it)?

I would definitely rule "no" on the second part - if it doesn't clearly state that it creates an area of dim light, then it doesn't.

I'd visualise it as an ethereal veil, covering your body and helping you blend in, but not creating a noticeable darkness nor impending vision. Otherwise, it should make you easier to spot if moving through well-lit areas, since a human-shaped blob of shadow would attract attention.

[JellyPooga]

New thought: "A veil of shadows and silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection," is the first line of the spell, which raises two questions: Is this veil of shadows and silence notable such that those who do see through your heightened stealth can tell you're obscured by them? Is the "veil of shadows" enough to count as dim lighting (giving Disadvantage on perception checks and allowing Shadow monks to teleport into or out of it)?

I don't think it's going to count as dim lighting, or as a shadow for "jumping" purposes; that would (or at least should) be noted in the description if that were the intention, but I like the implication that it's an observable phenomenon that aids stealth in the same way that, for instance DPM (aka "camo pattern"), dark clothing or natural (non-magical) dim lighting acts similarly. Could be good for creating that edgelord look for those noticeably not using it for Stealth purposes.

"Check out my veil of shadow and silence...I'm so edgy and mysterious"

It's emphatically not Darkness or Silence, so it's not an effect that will be as notable as either to a casual onlooker (there's no immediate cessation of sound or light), but it might well be obvious when someone with an active PWT effect comes near. Muted sounds and colours, textural differences to perception, etc. It's also worth noting that the part of effect that actively stops traces being left might also be an observable phenomenon. Clothes that snag on branches, for instance, will never tear and leave a thread nor will a twig break under foot or stone turn as you pass. Thick carpets don't scuff, nor even compress at your tread. I imagine it being something that you might not actively notice, but still know something is "off" or "wrong" about a person with the effect active. Either that or such things occur, but then magically rectify themselves in your wake, potentially being even more notable to an onlooker. Displaced sand flowing back into place, compressed snow reforming into its pristine fresh-fallen state and so forth.

[Sol0botmate]

It's up to your DM to just make it up why you left no traces and nobody saw you. You roll stealth - if nobody has bigger perception score- you are just undetectable + you leave no tarces. Let DM worry about it.

Spell does what it says: "A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage". No marks, no foot prints, no hand prints, no hair left, no blood left, no stench, nothing a non-magical detection can trace. It's like you were never there physically.

Pass Without Trace is very powerful spell, especially if you place it on good chasis.

My favourite are Mark of Shadow Lore Bard for example. You get Pass Without Trace + Expertise: Stealth.

With 16 DEX at level 5 you can have +9 to Stealth already, +10 from PWT.

Meaning that even without EA: Dexterity your minimum Stealth/Hidden roll is 20. Your average roll is 29.5. With advantage it's 34!

So that means you can just go inside enemy castle/caves/mantion and scout everything becasue there is no way anything will roll Perception high enough on level 5 adventures to detect you.

Get your second Expertise also in Perception so you can detect traps like a boss. Get Observant feat. Even with 10 WIS you will get +11 to Passsive Perception so passive 21 Perception on level 5.

Now you can sneak through everything on level 5 and also detect all traps - before your party will step into enemy territory you will already know all rooms, all locations, all enemies, all traps and so on.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Do remember that this only helps if you can hide in the first place, which this does not help with. If you walk out into the open where someone's watching, you're noticed even with an INFINITY+1 Dexterity (Stealth) check.

This is not invisibility.

[MoiMagnus]

Spell does what it says: "A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage". No marks, no foot prints, no hand prints, no hair left, no blood left, no stench, nothing a non-magical detection can trace. It's like you were never there physically.

This is what should happen most of the time, but I feel like part of the question is the following: what happen if instead of trying to be stealthy, you cast Pass without Trace and try as much as possible to break the spell by trying to make yourself traceable in some way?
Practical example: I am a secret traitor in the team, can I reasonably bypass Pass without Trace to allow my allies to track my teammates?

I see three possible resolutions:
(1) The spell reverts all your actions fulfilling its role of letting everything unchanged after you. So the doors are repaired, the peoples you talked to forget that they talked to you (because tracking someone through investigation and asking questions to peoples is still tracking with non-magical means), etc.
(2) The spell prevents you from doing actions that goes too much against it (magically compels you to act stealthily?)
(3) Traces that you intend to leave behind you are not erased.
(4) A mix of the three depending on what the DM feels at the moment of the casting of the spell.

[Sol0botmate]

Do remember that this only helps if you can hide in the first place, which this does not help with. If you walk out into the open where someone's watching, you're noticed even with an INFINITY+1 Dexterity (Stealth) check.

This is not invisibility.

Dunno how you play it but we just demand one stealth check for character is planning. If he wants to go ahead and scount enemy complex - he rolls and that is his stealth check for whole operation. And especially in complexes like castles/dungeons etc. there are always ways to hide- dark corners, behind columns and so on. Clever player will always roleplay well how he wants to stay hidden.

[Sol0botmate]

This is what should happen most of the time, but I feel like part of the question is the following: what happen if instead of trying to be stealthy, you cast Pass without Trace and try as much as possible to break the spell by trying to make yourself traceable in some way?
Practical example: I am a secret traitor in the team, can I reasonably bypass Pass without Trace to allow my allies to track my teammates?

I see three possible resolutions:
(1) The spell revert all your actions fulfilling its role of letting everything unchanged after you. So the doors are repaired, the peoples you talked to forget that they talked to you (because tracking someone through investigation and asking questions to peoples is still tracking with non-magical means), etc.
(2) The spells prevent you from doing actions that goes too much against it (magically compels you to act stealthily?)
(3) Traces that you intend to let behind you are not erased.
(4) A mix of the three depending on what the DM feels at the moment of the casting of the spell.

Since it's MAGIC - any explanation will work. Maybe you can break door but enemies will just think doors were always broken or there is nothing unsual with that? People remember they talked to someone, just they can't get enough details to help investigator? You try to leave behind bread crumbs - they just dissapear. You try to leave mark on walls - they dissapear.

It's Magic. It's up to DM to say how it looks like, but overall the description of spell is pretty clear. You leave no traces- period. Or traces you left just magically make them impossible to use to trace anyone, especially ones under spell.

[Segev]

This is what should happen most of the time, but I feel like part of the question is the following: what happen if instead of trying to be stealthy, you cast Pass without Trace and try as much as possible to break the spell by trying to make yourself traceable in some way?
Practical example: I am a secret traitor in the team, can I reasonably bypass Pass without Trace to allow my allies to track my teammates?

I see three possible resolutions:
(1) The spell reverts all your actions fulfilling its role of letting everything unchanged after you. So the doors are repaired, the peoples you talked to forget that they talked to you (because tracking someone through investigation and asking questions to peoples is still tracking with non-magical means), etc.
(2) The spell prevents you from doing actions that goes too much against it (magically compels you to act stealthily?)
(3) Traces that you intend to leave behind you are not erased.
(4) A mix of the three depending on what the DM feels at the moment of the casting of the spell.

This is an interesting question. The easiest solution for the person who wants to be tracked would be to get outside the AoE to leave his marks. Ironically, the bonus to Stealth would make it easier for him to hide from his companions to get behind them.

But let's think of this from a Hansel and Gretel perspective: you've been kidnapped by somebody using this spell to obscure their absconding with you. You aren't able to leave the AoE of the spell. Can you leave proverbial or literal breadcrumbs?

I think, were I DMing it, I'd rule "no," and that circumstances contrive to eliminate your tracks. Drop breadcrumbs, and birds eat them up. Drop stones, and they just won't land or stop rolling until they're no longer making a trail. Try to break twigs, and coincidences lead to other twigs leaving false trails breaking.

But mechanically, I wouldn't permit somebody under the power of the spellcaster or his allies to "break" the spell's "no tracking" clause. If somebody were sufficiently outside their power to do so, they'd also be sufficiently outside their power to get to the edge of the effect to deliberately leave a trail outside its protections. There's more than a little hand-waving here, but I think that holds to the intent and letter of the spell despite requiring magical contrivance to be part of the spell's effect.

[Thunderous Mojo]

No, PWoT is not Invisibility, but "Open" space, in an outdoor setting often includes Hills, Trees, Bushes and other obstructions.

If while you are on the Cattle Raid of Ulster, there are hills between you and the stolen cattle, and any observers, then PWoT is applying to the perception ability check to hear the cattle.

If you are stampeding cattle down a narrow city street like the running of the bulls in Pamplona, then PWoT is not going to help, once the bulls are obviously visible.

The issue is, Pamplona and many other medieval cities often have very narrow, convoluted, warrens of different streets and alleys, perfect for losing line of sight.

I've always been curious between the intention behind this line in the spell:
For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can't be tracked except by magical means.

Is the intention that affected creatures must stay within 30' of the caster, or are affected creatures free to roam independently, but still have the bonus to Stealth ability checks?

[PhoenixPhyre]

No, PWoT is not Invisibility, but "Open" space, in an outdoor setting often includes Hills, Trees, Bushes and other obstructions.

If while you are on the Cattle Raid of Ulster, there are hills between you and the stolen cattle, and any observers, then PWoT is applying to the perception ability check to hear the cattle.

If you are stampeding cattle down a narrow city street like the running of the bulls in Pamplona, then PWoT is not going to help, once the bulls are obviously visible.

The issue is, Pamplona and many other medieval cities often have very narrow, convoluted, warrens of different streets and alleys, perfect for losing line of sight.

I've always been curious between the intention behind this line in the spell:
For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can't be tracked except by magical means.

Is the intention that affected creatures must stay within 30' of the caster, or are affected creatures free to roam independently, but still have the bonus to Stealth ability checks?

I agree. But you can't just walk through the castle gate in daylight. Or if you open a door with someone watching it, they'll see you.

So it's a huge help, but not a panacea/can scout anywhere.

And as to your last line, range only matters when the spell is cast unless it says otherwise. Your choice of targets is limited when you cast it, but it's not an aura. Or at least that's how I read it.

[Segev]

I've always been curious between the intention behind this line in the spell:
For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can't be tracked except by magical means.

Is the intention that affected creatures must stay within 30' of the caster, or are affected creatures free to roam independently, but still have the bonus to Stealth ability checks?


I agree. But you can't just walk through the castle gate in daylight. Or if you open a door with someone watching it, they'll see you.

So it's a huge help, but not a panacea/can scout anywhere.

And as to your last line, range only matters when the spell is cast unless it says otherwise. Your choice of targets is limited when you cast it, but it's not an aura. Or at least that's how I read it.

It expressly states that the spell's medium is a veil of shadows and silence that extends from the caster. Its wording also says nothing about "When you cast..." but rather: "For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means."

Thus, for the duration, you can choose creatures within 30 feet of you to receive the benefits.

Both the narrative description of a veil of shadows and silence being responsible for creatures being harder to detect and track, and the choice of wording ("for the duration") for when you select the beneficiaries indicates that it's those who are within 30 feet of you whom you choose to benefit that get the benefit. This also means creatures who leave the AoE would lose the benefits, and creatures who enter it would gain them if you choose to extend them.

Personally, I would not change the results of stealth checks rolled under its effects even if you left, though, because to me, the stealth check is something that is about getting yourself into a hidden position. Only when I determined that circumstances called for another stealth roll would you lose the benefits for being out of the area. I know this could be gamed in weird ways, but since it's based on DM ruling case by case, I could just start calling for new checks if I felt the gamesmanship was unrealistically modeling stealth.

[Thunderous Mojo]

But let's think of this from a Hansel and Gretel perspective: you've been kidnapped by somebody using this spell to obscure their absconding with you. You aren't able to leave the AoE of the spell. Can you leave proverbial or literal breadcrumbs?

I think, were I DMing it, I'd rule "no," and that circumstances contrive to eliminate your tracks. Drop breadcrumbs, and birds eat them up. Drop stones, and they just won't land or stop rolling until they're no longer making a trail. Try to break twigs, and coincidences lead to other twigs leaving false trails breaking.


My inclination is to say this is taking the spell a bit too far. From a historical perspective, the spell was a 1st level Druid spell in 1e, and the spell text limited the concealment of passage to footprints and scent. (You also could use Detect Magic to detect the passage, as the terrain crossed displayed a magical aura).

To broaden the notion of "Passage" to include all activities, beyond the physical evidence one would naturally leave while traveling is an overly broad interpretation.

Using this broad interpretation Bansky could not graffiti a building, a PC Druid or Ranger could not leave Trail Signs, a PC couldn't use Skywrite etc.

The spell is meant to occlude incidental signs of passage, not obliterate intentional acts.

Removing animal droppings might even be a bit of an overreach for a "veil of shadows and silence"...

[Thunderous Mojo]

It expressly states that the spell's medium is a veil of shadows and silence that extends from the caster. Its wording also says nothing about "When you cast..." but rather: "For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means."

Thus, for the duration, you can choose creatures within 30 feet of you to receive the benefits.


This is how I interpret the spell, but I've played in games where the DM has allowed people to move beyond 30' from the caster. Like many rules In 5e, the language used is often not as ironclad as it could be vis a vis unequivocally expressing design intent.

[Keravath]

One thing to emphasize is that pass without trace makes you more stealthy and not leave tracks but does nothing if a creature can see or hear you.

If you try to stealth down a corridor and the guard happens to look that way - there is no roll, there is no stealth, you aren't hidden whether you have pass without trace or not. If you have something to hide behind then you can hide, if you don't, you are visible and thus stealth fails.

This includes dim light or light natural cover like leaves. Only wood elves gain the ability to hide when lightly obscured by natural terrain. Everyone else needs a tree or something that completely blocks them from view.

A character can try to sneak up on a guard. Their stealth roll doesn't guarantee that the guard doesn't turn around and see you ... all it does is indicate whether you might or might not make enough noise to be heard and thus make the guard aware that you are there. An alert guard is likely scanning the surroundings regularly making it very difficult to impossible to sneak up on them.

[CapnWildefyr]

One thing to emphasize is that pass without trace makes you more stealthy and not leave tracks but does nothing if a creature can see or hear you.

If you try to stealth down a corridor and the guard happens to look that way - there is no roll, there is no stealth, you aren't hidden whether you have pass without trace or not. If you have something to hide behind then you can hide, if you don't, you are visible and thus stealth fails.

This includes dim light or light natural cover like leaves. Only wood elves gain the ability to hide when lightly obscured by natural terrain. Everyone else needs a tree or something that completely blocks them from view.

A character can try to sneak up on a guard. Their stealth roll doesn't guarantee that the guard doesn't turn around and see you ... all it does is indicate whether you might or might not make enough noise to be heard and thus make the guard aware that you are there. An alert guard is likely scanning the surroundings regularly making it very difficult to impossible to sneak up on them.

Yes.

Adding on to this train of thought: you have to be doing something that requires a stealth check. If you kidnap Gretel, she won't try to be stealthy -- no roll needed. This is not a silence spell. Last time I kicked a door in, my DM didn't ask me to roll a stealth check. But the real application is not leaving footprints and so forth.

A similar example would be walking across ice. You're fine and stealthy until the ice breaks. If no one sees you, and you can climb out, you won't leave puddles of water behind you, but when you are thrashing in the water, you're no more or less stealthy or hidden than without the spell. (Well, maybe you can make a stealth check to drown quietly in your plate mail?)

[Cikomyr2]

Do remember that this only helps if you can hide in the first place, which this does not help with. If you walk out into the open where someone's watching, you're noticed even with an INFINITY+1 Dexterity (Stealth) check.

This is not invisibility.

It's invisibility regarding any evidence of your passage. Seriously, imagine a guard sees you running away in the pure undisturbed snow, reports it, but then nobody can see the footprints. Would people believe the schmuck?

Edit: I also figured that you could easily rustle some cattle and nobody would ever be able to trace you.

[Mellack]

It's invisibility regarding any evidence of your passage. Seriously, imagine a guard sees you running away in the pure undisturbed snow, reports it, but then nobody can see the footprints. Would people believe the schmuck?

Edit: I also figured that you could easily rustle some cattle and nobody would ever be able to trace you.

In a world full of magic and fairies and monks, I would expect they would. At least enough to up alert levels. If you are playing in a realm that has magic almost unknown, probably not.

[CorporateSlave]

Adding on to this train of thought: you have to be doing something that requires a stealth check. If you kidnap Gretel, she won't try to be stealthy -- no roll needed. This is not a silence spell. Last time I kicked a door in, my DM didn't ask me to roll a stealth check. But the real application is not leaving footprints and so forth.
[/COLOR]

The wording does say after all, "A veil of shadows and Silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection. For the Duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage .

Should be relatively easy for a DM to rule that the "no tracks" clause is dependent on the "Stealth checks" clause, since you aren't receiving the bonus absent making the Stealth check. I'm sure the wording could be further parsed by a rules lawyer, but it feels RAW and RAI to me.

[Segev]

My inclination is to say this is taking the spell a bit too far. From a historical perspective, the spell was a 1st level Druid spell in 1e, and the spell text limited the concealment of passage to footprints and scent. (You also could use Detect Magic to detect the passage, as the terrain crossed displayed a magical aura).

To broaden the notion of "Passage" to include all activities, beyond the physical evidence one would naturally leave while traveling is an overly broad interpretation.

Using this broad interpretation Bansky could not graffiti a building, a PC Druid or Ranger could not leave Trail Signs, a PC couldn't use Skywrite etc.

The spell is meant to occlude incidental signs of passage, not obliterate intentional acts.

Removing animal droppings might even be a bit of an overreach for a "veil of shadows and silence"...


Yes.

Adding on to this train of thought: you have to be doing something that requires a stealth check. If you kidnap Gretel, she won't try to be stealthy -- no roll needed. This is not a silence spell. Last time I kicked a door in, my DM didn't ask me to roll a stealth check. But the real application is not leaving footprints and so forth.

A similar example would be walking across ice. You're fine and stealthy until the ice breaks. If no one sees you, and you can climb out, you won't leave puddles of water behind you, but when you are thrashing in the water, you're no more or less stealthy or hidden than without the spell. (Well, maybe you can make a stealth check to drown quietly in your plate mail?)

To be clear, I am not suggesting kidnapping Hansel or Gretel with this spell up would let you stealth past people while the siblings are kicking and screaming for help. I am suggesting that if Hansel and Gretel, while being dragging kicking and screaming, tried to leave a trail by dragging their feet, dropping breadcrumbs, or breaking up the underbrush, they would fail to leave a trail. So if you grabbed them while they were alone in the woods, albeit on the well-marked trail, even if they kicked and screamed, nobody could hear them because nobody is around to do so. When the search parties came out later, they'd find their trail ends at the point you enclosed them in your pass without trace AoE and decided they got the "benefits" of it.

[Keravath]

It's invisibility regarding any evidence of your passage. Seriously, imagine a guard sees you running away in the pure undisturbed snow, reports it, but then nobody can see the footprints. Would people believe the schmuck?

Edit: I also figured that you could easily rustle some cattle and nobody would ever be able to trace you.

In the world of D&D where spells like Pass Without Trace are only 2nd level - accessible to a variety of characters - the response is more likely to be "Hmm, must have been a Ranger, Druid, Trickery Cleric, Shadow Monk, or possibly a lore Bard. What did they look like?"

Though they could also choose to disbelieve them if they wanted to ... it is the DMs game after all. :)

[da newt]

A veil of shadows and Silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection. For the Duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage.

If a Kobold / Drow was within an area of shadows caused by the spell, does this counter their sunlight sensitivity? Can a Twilight cleric fly in this AOR? Does the shadow blade attack with ADV? Does everyone actively searching (perception check) have to roll with DISADV?

Of note, PHB pg 183 says "Dim light, also called shadows, "

[CapnWildefyr]

To be clear, I am not suggesting kidnapping Hansel or Gretel with this spell up would let you stealth past people while the siblings are kicking and screaming for help. I am suggesting that if Hansel and Gretel, while being dragging kicking and screaming, tried to leave a trail by dragging their feet, dropping breadcrumbs, or breaking up the underbrush, they would fail to leave a trail. So if you grabbed them while they were alone in the woods, albeit on the well-marked trail, even if they kicked and screamed, nobody could hear them because nobody is around to do so. When the search parties came out later, they'd find their trail ends at the point you enclosed them in your pass without trace AoE and decided they got the "benefits" of it.

Sounds like we're on the page page. For example, if I knock Hansel out cold, I can carry him as I sneak past Gretel using my +10 bonus, and no one would find a trace without using magic.

[Valmark]

Personally I rule that someone enchanted with Pass Without Traces doesn't leave traces that can be used to track them down- meaning that if you break a vase (for example) the vase is broken and people will obviously know somebody did that. But there will be no footprints, no odors, nothing leading away from or to it- whoever did that will have been like a ghost (at least I think ghosts don't leave traces).

Same thing if one breaks a door or even if they murder somebody- there will obviously be the corpse/door in whatever state they left it, but as far as finding or even knowing it was them? Not even a speck of dust.

I'm assuming they either didn't need to roll a Stealth check or didn't fail any here- obviously if I call for a Stealth check and the enchanted character fails it they are getting discovered big time.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Of note, PHB pg 183 says "Dim light, also called shadows, "
The "Veil of Shadows and Silence" line from PWoT is what has been referred to in the past as "Flavor Text" or "Fluff", and typically is considered separate from the mechanical aspect of the power.

TCoE gives an example of Magic Missile becoming Magic Chicken Missile.
The spell works the same, it just looks different.

A Fey Wanderer or member of the Circle of Dreams might summon small moth sized Fey that sprinkle obscuring dust on the recipients of the spell.

A cleric of trickery that venerates Loki might summon an apparition of the Ferris Wolf that eats light and sound...again the mechanics remain the same, but the flavor text changes.

Now if a DM/Player agree to change some of the mechanical elements to match the changes in flavor text...great! This is a fine way to add individual personality to a campaign and is a excellent use of house rules.

[da newt]

You can tell what is flavor text (so it should be ignored) and what is RAW (and therefor make up the rules of the game) because they are careful to use different fonts, right?

[PhoenixPhyre]

You can tell what is flavor text (so it should be ignored) and what is RAW (and therefor make up the rules of the game) because they are careful to use different fonts, right?

I think there are two extremes here, both of which are wrong.

One is the one you're mocking--the idea that some parts (not clearly stated which, other than the ones people don't like that aren't encoded in numbers) are just fluff and can be ignored at will. That goes against the principle of "no hidden rules"--if only some parts of abilities mattered, they'd have to say which. 4e did this explicitly with different fonts, as you allude to. 5e does not.

The other is that each and every sentence (or worse, phrase) in an ability must have independent meaning outside of the greater context of the ability. That goes against basic english, which says that words are polysemic and only gain meaning in context.

I'd say that instead, those lines set things up. They're rules, but they're rules that are then narrowed by context. The remainder of the ability tells you what that "veil of shadow and silence" does, mechanically. But there is a veil of silence and shadows.

[HPisBS]

... If you have something to hide behind then you can hide, if you don't, you are visible and thus stealth fails.

This includes dim light or light natural cover like leaves. Only wood elves gain the ability to hide when lightly obscured by natural terrain. Everyone else needs a tree or something that completely blocks them from view.

Or just Skulker feat.


A character can try to sneak up on a guard. Their stealth roll doesn't guarantee that the guard doesn't turn around and see you ... all it does is indicate whether you might or might not make enough noise to be heard and thus make the guard aware that you are there. An alert guard is likely scanning the surroundings regularly making it very difficult to impossible to sneak up on them.

You haven't played much Splinter Cell or Assassin's Creed, have you?



The wording does say after all, "A veil of shadows and Silence radiates from you, masking you and your companions from detection. For the Duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage .

Should be relatively easy for a DM to rule that the "no tracks" clause is dependent on the "Stealth checks" clause, since you aren't receiving the bonus absent making the Stealth check. I'm sure the wording could be further parsed by a rules lawyer, but it feels RAW and RAI to me.

Improper bolding. It should've been:
"... For the Duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can’t be tracked except by magical means. A creature that receives this bonus leaves behind no tracks or other traces of its Passage."

The (properly bolded) "and" denotes two distinct and separate effects. The former can only apply when making a Stealth check (unless your table says creatures can have a "passive stealth" like their passive perception / investigation). The latter applies whenever you do anything that could otherwise let you be tracked by nonmagical means.

[greenstone]

So.. Does it mean I can run over the snow, mud, etc.. Without leaving *any* footprint?
As long as you are trying to be stealthy, yes.

[Cikomyr2]

As long as you are trying to be stealthy, yes.

Can't you roll a stealth check while running, you just do it at a disadvantage?

[Tanarii]

Can't you roll a stealth check while running, you just do it at a disadvantage?
No, you have to be moving at a slow pace.

[Rara1212]

No, you have to be moving at a slow pace.

That's only in narrative over land travel.

[HPisBS]

No, you have to be moving at a slow pace.

That's only in narrative over land travel.

Supporting evidence for that distinction in some sneaky class features:

Thief Rogue - Supreme Sneak:
"Starting at 9th level, you have advantage on a Dexterity (Stealth) check if you move no more than half your speed on the same turn."

Ranger - Natural Explorer:
"If you are traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace."

[J.C.]

When I am playing in an environment where it is easy to get a Staff of the Woodlands I always dip Druid 1 NO MATTER WHAT unless someone else beat me to it or for some reason I cannot dip Druid 1. Staff of the Woodlands is the single best party buff for the game. PERIOD.

At Will PASS WITHOUT TRACE is ridiculous. PERIOD.

[Tanarii]

That's only in narrative over land travel.
It's for all non-combat movement.

Edit: technically non-chase too, but that's just slightly modified combat rules.

[Segev]

You don't need to be actively trying to hide in order to have your tracks be impossible to follow. You just need to be getting the +10 bonus to stealth checks. You have that bonus whether you choose to take a Hide action or not. It just doesn't do anything if you don't use it. Just like your +1 sword gets a +1 bonus to hit regardless of whether you choose to ever attack with it.

When I am playing in an environment where it is easy to get a Staff of the Woodlands I always dip Druid 1 NO MATTER WHAT unless someone else beat me to it or for some reason I cannot dip Druid 1. Staff of the Woodlands is the single best party buff for the game. PERIOD.

At Will PASS WITHOUT TRACE is ridiculous. PERIOD.

That's a pretty nice item, but it is a Rare item, and I tend to view Uncommon items as barely within the realm of reasonably being able to expect to be able to shop for them.

[Thunderous Mojo]

You can tell what is flavor text (so it should be ignored) and what is RAW (and therefor make up the rules of the game) because they are careful to use different fonts, right?

No one stated "ignored"..flavor text connotes "easily modified, without creating unintended consequences". TCoE outlined how to make Racial Abilities "flavor text".

Can anyone point out a 5e spell that results in an imposition of a particular lighting condition that does not specify the exact lighting created..such a Dim Light?
(I'm not able to review spells at the moment)

I've driven across Texas and New Mexico multiple times. On flat plains, during daylight, a single cloud creating a solitary patch of Dim Light is very noticeable to spot.

So if all the text is considered equally important, then PWoT might conceivably grant a +10 to Stealth checks and impose Disadvantage on those checks simultaneously.

Should an upcast Continual Flame spell or other spell that creates light, negate or reduce the effectiveness of a Pass Without Trace spell?

Using PWoT to try to sneak through a concert hall during a musical performance or during Play would create a zone of aural dampening that likely would increase one's chance of being discovered, and not actually aid in avoiding detection.

I try to only open cans of worms, when I know the fish I am intending to catch will eat worms as bait. Otherwise, I just wind up with a mess, and fish that are not biting.

[Segev]

No one stated "ignored"..flavor text connotes "easily modified, without creating unintended consequences". TCoE outlined how to make Racial Abilities "flavor text".

Can anyone point out a 5e spell that results in an imposition of a particular lighting condition that does not specify the exact lighting created..such a Dim Light?
(I'm not able to review spells at the moment)

I've driven across Texas and New Mexico multiple times. On flat plains, during daylight, a single cloud creating a solitary patch of Dim Light is very noticeable to spot.

So if all the text is considered equally important, then PWoT might conceivably grant a +10 to Stealth checks and impose Disadvantage on those checks simultaneously.

Should an upcast Continual Flame spell or other spell that creates light, negate or reduce the effectiveness of a Pass Without Trace spell?

Using PWoT to try to sneak through a concert hall during a musical performance or during Play would create a zone of aural dampening that likely would increase one's chance of being discovered, and not actually aid in avoiding detection.

I try to only open cans of worms, when I know the fish I am intending to catch will eat worms as bait. Otherwise, I just wind up with a mess, and fish that are not biting.
Taking your anecdote as the example, how often have you seen that patch of cloud-derived darkness and thought, "There's somebody sneaking alone inside of that, because it's there?"

[Thunderous Mojo]

Taking your anecdote as the example, how often have you seen that patch of cloud-derived darkness and thought, "There's somebody sneaking alone inside of that, because it's there?"

Actually during my last Route 66 road trip, 2 years ago, with a good buddy that also plays D&D with me, we made a substantial number of "that patch of darkness could have 15 Shadar Kai in it" quips.

So if two D&D geeks, that only have to consider Magic in the most theoretical of terms can make jokes about "hiding in shadows".....is it that difficult to imagine that in a wide magic world like Eberron...Pass Without Trace is something that is considered quite openly?

There are two Dragonmarked Houses that grant their scions access to the spell, in addition to the 'Usual Suspects' of Druids, Rangers, and Clerics o' Trickery.

[Segev]

Actually during my last Route 66 road trip, 2 years ago, with a good buddy that also plays D&D with me, we made a substantial number of "that patch of darkness could have 15 Shadar Kai in it" quips.

So if two D&D geeks, that only have to consider Magic in the most theoretical of terms can make jokes about "hiding in shadows".....is it that difficult to imagine that in a wide magic world like Eberron...Pass Without Trace is something that is considered quite openly?

There are two Dragonmarked Houses that grant their scions access to the spell, in addition to the 'Usual Suspects' of Druids, Rangers, and Clerics o' Trickery.

Fair enough. What do you suppose standard patrol/watch responses to patches of dimness are?

[Samayu]

"For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can't be tracked except by magical means."

Because the wording uses "for the duration," I would assume the creatures need to remain there. Plus, there are other spells that specifically say where the creatures need to be when you cast, and this spell doesn't read that way. What muddies the water a bit is that it says you choose them. Choosing is normally only done at the time of casting.

Choosing any creature within 30 feet of you, at any time while the spell lasts is... if that's the intention, it is worded very badly. And there's no precedent for that.

[Segev]

"For the duration, each creature you choose within 30 feet of you (including you) has a +10 bonus to Dexterity (Stealth) checks and can't be tracked except by magical means."

Because the wording uses "for the duration," I would assume the creatures need to remain there. Plus, there are other spells that specifically say where the creatures need to be when you cast, and this spell doesn't read that way. What muddies the water a bit is that it says you choose them. Choosing is normally only done at the time of casting.

Choosing any creature within 30 feet of you, at any time while the spell lasts is... if that's the intention, it is worded very badly. And there's no precedent for that.

It says you choose creatures for the duration, so it's pretty specific, even if it's a bit unusual.

[HPisBS]

It says you choose creatures for the duration, so it's pretty specific, even if it's a bit unusual.

The question that has now arisen is: Does that mean "Each creature you choose gets these benefits for the duration while they're within 30 ft of you," or "For the duration, you get to choose creatures within 30 ft of you to get these benefits?"


One would expect the former, but the latter reading seems just as sound.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Fair enough. What do you suppose standard patrol/watch responses to patches of dimness are?
This is a question better suited for someone else. My personal ruling is the line about "a veil of shadow and silence" is flavor text, so there is no chance that a visual cue or aural dampening phenomenon is going to Nerf the spell.

I've seen the movie Predator. So my response to patches of shifting light whispering "Over here, in the trees" is to either cast Fireball or "get to the chopper". 😃


One would expect the former, but the latter reading seems just as sound.
Gameplay-wise, the latter reading even makes sense. One failure in a group stealth check scenario can result in total failure. If the caster can add new recipients to the spell after the initial casting of PWoT, then the party doesn't have to recast the spell again after they rescue the prisoner from cell block B.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Gees this is a good spell. I don't know about abuse, but the +10 bonus and duration make this so good. My group of 3rd level characters snuck into a dungeon in BGOoA tonight (that was supposed to be 4th level) and made pretty easy work of a huge chunk of it. 4/5ths of the party (The heavy armor fighter didn't try) was able to get surprise on the toughest thing in there, and it was pretty smooth sailing after that. The druid kept concentration, so they kept going from there.

[Cikomyr2]

Gees this is a good spell. I don't know about abuse, but the +10 bonus and duration make this so good. My group of 3rd level characters snuck into a dungeon in BGOoA tonight (that was supposed to be 4th level) and made pretty easy work of a huge chunk of it. 4/5ths of the party (The heavy armor fighter didn't try) was able to get surprise on the toughest thing in there, and it was pretty smooth sailing after that. The druid kept concentration, so they kept going from there.

The +10 stealth bonus is awesome. But what interested me is the spell effects that are not related to stat bonuses.

Like, what just *happens* without the need to roll for it? "leaving no trace" is, in my opinion, broken as heck the more I think about it.

edit: let's say someone puts a hair on a door to see if someone opened it while they were away. Would Pass Without Trace replace the hair?

[HPisBS]

The +10 stealth bonus is awesome. But what interested me is the spell effects that are not related to stat bonuses.

Like, what just *happens* without the need to roll for it? "leaving no trace" is, in my opinion, broken as heck the more I think about it.

edit: let's say someone puts a hair on a door to see if someone opened it while they were away. Would Pass Without Trace replace the hair?

Nah, it'd keep the hair from falling. Prevent any rush of air from knocking the hair off in the first place.

[Segev]

The question that has now arisen is: Does that mean "Each creature you choose gets these benefits for the duration while they're within 30 ft of you," or "For the duration, you get to choose creatures within 30 ft of you to get these benefits?"


One would expect the former, but the latter reading seems just as sound.The "for the duration" applies to both effects, by my reading, especially given that the explanation for its function - fluff or not - is a "veil of shadows and silence" that has a definite radius. It wouldn't make sense that the "veil of shadows and silence" lets them hide and not leave tracks when they're not in its magical influence area. If it worked like that, the description would talk about the "veil of shadows and silence" clinging to them or something like that, not "radiating out" from the caster "for the duration."


The +10 stealth bonus is awesome. But what interested me is the spell effects that are not related to stat bonuses. The +10 stealth bonus is amazing. I'm playing a rogue 1/monk 2 in a game that just leveled up, and I'm debating between Rogue 2 for bonus-action stealth (and bonus-action dash w/o spending ki), or open hand monk (he's a grappler, so knockdown on flurry of blows would be awesome), or shadow monk (because +10 to stealth means a minimum of 18, maximum of 37 on stealth checks for him).


Like, what just *happens* without the need to roll for it? "leaving no trace" is, in my opinion, broken as heck the more I think about it.

edit: let's say someone puts a hair on a door to see if someone opened it while they were away. Would Pass Without Trace replace the hair?I would personally rule that it prevents tracking, so somebody setting a "somebody was here" alert trap would still know somebody was there, but they'd be unable to track you. Ironically, this means that the hair trick would fail in some fashion if it were useful for tracking you.

I can see the counterargument that the hair being out of place is a "sign of passage" and that it's "pass without trace," not "be untrackable," so "passing" the door without a trace you'd done so would be in line with the spell's stated name. So I could see a DM ruling that it does, in fact, prevent the hair from falling out of place.

[HPisBS]

The question that has now arisen is: Does that mean "Each creature you choose gets these benefits for the duration while they're within 30 ft of you," or "For the duration, you get to choose creatures within 30 ft of you to get these benefits?"

The "for the duration" applies to both effects, by my reading, especially given that the explanation for its function - fluff or not - is a "veil of shadows and silence" that has a definite radius. It wouldn't make sense that the "veil of shadows and silence" lets them hide and not leave tracks when they're not in its magical influence area. If it worked like that, the description would talk about the "veil of shadows and silence" clinging to them or something like that, not "radiating out" from the caster "for the duration."

Both options I mentioned would make the benefits only apply for creatures while they're w/in 30 ft of the caster. The difference is that the former would mean that only creatures who were in that area when it was cast could ever benefit, while the latter would let you add (or subtract) creatures who're w/in the area after it was cast.

I guess I should've laid that out better the first time.


... Now that we've apparently had this misunderstanding, I'm thinking the latter (that you can edit your choice of beneficiaries at will) is more correct because, while that was the message I intended to write, the language I used was too concise to effectively convey it to you. Much like the official spell text.

[DwarfFighter]

Hm. The idea that Pass Without Trace will mend broken glass or door frames seems a bit of a stretch.

[Segev]

Hm. The idea that Pass Without Trace will mend broken glass or door frames seems a bit of a stretch.

Agreed. I think it will prevent unintentional traces of passage, but if you're doing something on purpose - even if it's necessary for passage - that will leave a mark, you will leave that mark. Walking along a plush carpet even in muddy footprints won't leave a trace. Kicking in a locked door will. But picking its lock won't.

[Cikomyr2]

If you swim in a calm lake with that spell. You leave no ripples

[Nagog]

I'd agree that it's mostly unintentional stuff. Though in a divergent course, I'd say if you passed through an unlocked door, the spell may close the door behind you (just as it would straighten a rug your passing ruffled). The spell doesn't alter physics to not ruffle carpets, prevent mud from your boots finding purchase on hardwood floors, drops from your wet cloak from dripping on dry surfaces, etc., but it does clean them up to prevent detection. That's how I'd rule it at least.

[Thunderous Mojo]

If you swim in a calm lake with that spell. You leave no ripples
Excellent point Cikomyr!

Lol...if your group needs to pee in a pool, and don't want anyone to know...it is Pass Without Trace time!

[DwarfFighter]

This thread makes me re-assess my position on the question of intelligent spells.

I've always figured spells as "dumb programs" that have an explicit process to their physics- and entropy-defying effects. Rincewind's issues with that spell of his I always that was stupid.

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.

I guess this also explains how fireballs and lightning bolts can release their energy precisely in the manner the caster intends without requiring the caster to exercise exact precision. The spell knows what it is intended to do.

Also makes subverting Wish spells based on wording even more of a jerk move on the DM's part than it already is.

[Cikomyr2]

This thread makes me re-assess my position on the question of intelligent spells.

I've always figured spells as "dumb programs" that have an explicit process to their physics- and entropy-defying effects. Rincewind's issues with that spell of his I always that was stupid.

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.

I guess this also explains how fireballs and lightning bolts can release their energy precisely in the manner the caster intends without requiring the caster to exercise exact precision. The spell knows what it is intended to do.

Also makes subverting Wish spells based on wording even more of a jerk move on the DM's part than it already is.

See it as a trade-off between power and control.

Replacing dust, mud and snow is just a minor automated telekinetic effect, the strenght of which is weaker than Mage Hand. Automated control of that telekinetic effect is where the power of the spell is at.

Fireballs and lightning bolts are also probably extremely controlled spells. Created in a way to prevent physics-based backlash against the Caster. Or alternatively, maybe the aera limitation of the fireball is what allows the intensification of the heat? You turn a big explosion into a flash oven, the spell has built in range limitation to the distance the heat can travel.

The wish spell is 100% power, no control. It's the purest "programming" spell that allows you to reweave the magical fabric of the world. Better debug the **** out of your query before pressing "execute".

[Tanarii]

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.Why would it do any of those things when it could just prevent anything from being disturbed in the first place?

[DwarfFighter]

Because it doesn't give you the ability to walk on top of difficult terrain or water. Snow or mud will still slow you down, water will still require you to swim.

[Segev]

This thread makes me re-assess my position on the question of intelligent spells.

I've always figured spells as "dumb programs" that have an explicit process to their physics- and entropy-defying effects. Rincewind's issues with that spell of his I always that was stupid.

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.

I guess this also explains how fireballs and lightning bolts can release their energy precisely in the manner the caster intends without requiring the caster to exercise exact precision. The spell knows what it is intended to do.

Also makes subverting Wish spells based on wording even more of a jerk move on the DM's part than it already is.


Why would it do any of those things when it could just prevent anything from being disturbed in the first place?


Because it doesn't give you the ability to walk on top of difficult terrain or water. Snow or mud will still slow you down, water will still require you to swim.

Water just won't cling to you when you climb out of it, or won't be left behind when you walk, instead staying on your feet. Snow or mud reform like memory-foam rather than staying squelshed into the shape of your footprints. Blood simply doesn't drip off of you onto anything as you pass.

It fails on "intentionally destroyed" things less because it's smart enough to tell you meant to do that, and more because it can't handle the scale...or it can't prevent you from doing something if you force it. Maybe it would have prevented that vase from falling if you bumped it, but when you actually grabbed it, you overwhelmed whatever forces it was delicately adjusting to prevent it from moving.

[HPisBS]

Water just won't cling to you when you climb out of it, or won't be left behind when you walk, instead staying on your feet. Snow or mud reform like memory-foam rather than staying squelshed into the shape of your footprints. Blood simply doesn't drip off of you onto anything as you pass.

It fails on "intentionally destroyed" things less because it's smart enough to tell you meant to do that, and more because it can't handle the scale...or it can't prevent you from doing something if you force it. Maybe it would have prevented that vase from falling if you bumped it, but when you actually grabbed it, you overwhelmed whatever forces it was delicately adjusting to prevent it from moving.

+1
Take my upvote, if you can.

[DwarfFighter]

Water just won't cling to you when you climb out of it, or won't be left behind when you walk, instead staying on your feet. Snow or mud reform like memory-foam rather than staying squelshed into the shape of your footprints. Blood simply doesn't drip off of you onto anything as you pass.

It fails on "intentionally destroyed" things less because it's smart enough to tell you meant to do that, and more because it can't handle the scale...or it can't prevent you from doing something if you force it. Maybe it would have prevented that vase from falling if you bumped it, but when you actually grabbed it, you overwhelmed whatever forces it was delicately adjusting to prevent it from moving.

If you have Pass Without Trace cast and climb out of a river while bleeding, it is outside the scope of the spell that you are magically dry and the bleeding has stopped. You are "leaving no trace", and that's it.

In the case of the accidentally broken vase, well. DMs discretion on how that is somehow not a "trace".

[Segev]

If you have Pass Without Trace cast and climb out of a river while bleeding, it is outside the scope of the spell that you are magically dry and the bleeding has stopped. You are "leaving no trace", and that's it.

In the case of the accidentally broken vase, well. DMs discretion on how that is somehow not a "trace".

So water won't drip off of you, despite being soaked, and blood will likewise fail to do so. ::shrug::