Creative uses for Sunder

[Anachronity]

So I was indirectly inspired by a (Pathfinder 1e) guide on fighters I read about the sunder maneuver. There was a mention that Sunder was one of the maneuvers that scales relatively well, and it got me to thinking about creative uses of the Sunder maneuver. Particularly with the PF Fighter's Archer archetype that allows ranged sundering.

The obvious one would be sundering a divine focus or spell component pouch. But what are some interesting ways in which one might use the sunder maneuver, preferably without destroying loot or heavily stretching the meaning of the maneuver?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

So I was indirectly inspired by a (Pathfinder 1e) guide on fighters I read about the sunder maneuver. There was a mention that Sunder was one of the maneuvers that scales relatively well, and it got me to thinking about creative uses of the Sunder maneuver. Particularly with the PF Fighter's Archer archetype that allows ranged sundering.

The obvious one would be sundering a divine focus or spell component pouch. But what are some interesting ways in which one might use the sunder maneuver, preferably without destroying loot or heavily stretching the meaning of the maneuver?I haven't read that guide, so I might be restating something in it, but...

You can sunder parts of the landscape that would cause problems for the enemy. If the party is running across a bridge, sunder the supports on that side, dumping the pursuing enemy into the ravine it spans. Or cut down the chandelier dangling over the fight below you (most easily done if you can fly, although you might be able to find a vantage point within reach via a balcony or something).

If a caster is using a scroll or a wand, use your AoO to sunder it.

Cut the straps for the mounted enemy's saddle.

If you're mounted or riding on a wagon and an enemy on a chariot or wagon attacks, slice through the bits connecting the horse to the chariot or wagon.

[Anachronity]

You can sunder parts of the landscape that would cause problems for the enemy. If the party is running across a bridge, sunder the supports on that side, dumping the pursuing enemy into the ravine it spans. Or cut down the chandelier dangling over the fight below you (most easily done if you can fly, although you might be able to find a vantage point within reach via a balcony or something).

I think these just fall under the umbrella of attacking an object, i.e. no combat maneuver roll required. Not to say they're necessarily bad ideas.
The rest are excellent suggestions though!

[aglondier]

Buckle your swash...sunder the opponent's belt to drop their pants, or any other fixture on their clothes, armour or shield to make them lose or drop it. Sundering the enemy's clothing to send him home in humiliation. Sunder his beard, moustache or eyebrows for much the same reason.

[Crake]

If a caster is using a scroll or a wand, use your AoO to sunder it.

Wands don't provoke.

[Batcathat]

Buckle your swash...sunder the opponent's belt to drop their pants, or any other fixture on their clothes, armour or shield to make them lose or drop it. Sundering the enemy's clothing to send him home in humiliation. Sunder his beard, moustache or eyebrows for much the same reason.

Preferably combined with some magic or an epic sleight of hand check to make sure your opponent is wearing some embarrassing underpants.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Wands don't provoke.Huh. You're correct.

Also, I stumbled across Double Wand Wielder (C.Arcane) that overrides wands' casting time to be 1 full-round regardless of the original casting times of the wands. So if you have a wand of identify, instead of 1 hour, the casting time is still 1 full-round action. (Just make sure the second wand is cheap, like a cantrip.) Not that that's applicable to this thread.

[Psyren]

But what are some interesting ways in which one might use the sunder maneuver, preferably without destroying loot or heavily stretching the meaning of the maneuver?

One of the best uses for it is sundering spell effects. This is tricky to pull off as you either require a Barbarian or Bloodrager (for the Spell Sunder rage power), or a Dwarf Fighter (for the Shatterspell feat; there are a few ways around the dwarf requirement if your GM sticks to it) - but once you do, it expands the usefulness of Sunder at higher levels considerably. Buffing a CMB check, especially one that uses your weapon bonuses, it much easier than buffing a dispel check.

Second, don't worry too much about destroying loot. For starters, magic items can be repaired in Pathfinder via Make Whole and Greater Make Whole, even if they've been completely destroyed. These spells are on both the wizard and cleric lists, so your chances of having someone who can cast them in the party is high. In addition, you can always choose to simply inflict the broken condition instead of destroying the item completely, which for many magic items reduces their effectiveness (thus allowing your Sunder to positively affect the combat even if the item itself remains intact.) Sunder their weapons and armor, leave them broken, and then the resulting debuffs will allow you to more easily hit the opponent while also taking less damage from them.

[gijoemike]

In pathfinder the broken condition on a weapon means it crits only on a nat 20. Feats, keen, spells no long expand the crit range. It will also only be a x2 crit. Feats, class abilities, spells don't help here either. And all attack rolls and damage rolls get a -2. Yes, that stacks on the crit for a -4. And iirc, sneak attacks cannot be done with a broken weapon as it cannot be handled properly. Somebody close to the books check on that, please.


The example of attacking a saddle strap is actually a sunder maneuver with the wielder being the mount. That is a useful example for the OP. Many many times the situation is really just attacking an object not sunder.


The entire point of sunder is to neutralize a threat faster then it would take to kill them.

The best use of sunder is to destroy a wizards spell focus. As all spells are now full round to cast.
The second best use is to destroy the spell component pouch. Many spells don't need materials or the caster may ( should ) have a second pouch.
The 3rd is to apply broken to the critical fisher's weapon; I'm lookin at you, Kukri.
The 4th is to apply broken to the fighters armor. Then cast grease on the floor. Broken Armor doubles the penalty.


Fun things to do. Sunder the belt of strength on the barbican. Major recalculation to damage output. Maybe 15 hp.
Sunder the headband of wisdom/intellect on the caster. You can steal spells that way. Those things have like 5 hp too.


WARNING: Make whole only returns the magic to the item if the cast is *TWICE* :smalleek: the level of the item. And it doesn't work at all on scrolls, wands, potions, charged wondrous items.

[Psyren]

The best use of sunder is to destroy a wizards spell focus. As all spells are now full round to cast.


I'm not seeing this rule. If you destroy a wizard's bonded object (assuming they have one), they need to make a tough concentration check to cast the spell, but it doesn't change the casting time.

Wizards who opted for a familiar instead wouldn't be subject to this. Meanwhile, those whose bonded object was a ring would perhaps provoke some interesting questions.



WARNING: Make whole only returns the magic to the item if the cast is *TWICE* :smalleek: the level of the item. And it doesn't work at all on scrolls, wands, potions, charged wondrous items.

Eh, items tend to have lower CL than the party anyway - and Greater Make Whole (4th level) only requires CL=item level if that becomes an issue.

[PhantasyPen]

My DM once attacked us with specially-animated (but not Animated) statues. It was a Sunder action to disable the statues by blinding/decapitating them.