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View Full Version : 7 Veils Initiate- Threat or Menace?



Eldritch_Ent
2007-11-07, 07:37 AM
Hey, For a while I've been hearing people calling the initiate of the sevenfold veils "Cheesy", "Overpowered", and even outright "Broken", but after looking through the entry for it in complete arcane I just don't see what the problem is. The class basically trades all of it's secondary class features for the ability to summon, at most, 5 parts of a Prismatic Sphere... Can someone please explain to me why this class is considered twinkish?

The_Snark
2007-11-07, 07:42 AM
You get the ability to make yourself invulnerable 4/day, as an immediate action. Plus kaleidoscopic doom, which will destroy any enemy that has a lot of buff spells.

What do you give up? Uh... familiar, maybe a couple feats. It's not as offensive as the incanatrix, but it gives a wizard a lot of extra defensive power for very little cost. And wizards really don't need more power.

KIDS
2007-11-07, 07:43 AM
The problem is that it does so as an immediate action. Arrow headed towards you? Choose a veil. Cold spell aimed in your area? Choose a veil. Ogre approaching... oh wait. It is very powerful and can respond to most threats at a moment's notice.

The second problem is the above huge benefit without absolutely any kind of tradeoff. It's 7 levels of full casting in addition to powerful abilities. What are these secondary class features that you speak of? Sorcerer has none, Wizard has none, Wu Jen has none. It's a win-win. With some newer books you actually get in with only 1 actual feat spent too.

It of course depends on what the player uses this awesome power for, but it really is considered twinkish for a good reason. Giving it a caster level loss at 1st level, limiting uses of prismatic veil per encounter and such things might be a better fit - it would still be strong and desireable, but not overwhelming and win-win like it is now. Just my 2cc...

Keld Denar
2007-11-07, 07:49 AM
Yeah, pretty much what The Snark said. When you get the ability to make immediate Veils, that when the class becomes broken. Also, note that Veils protect against different effects as well as just doing damage, etc. Just like a Prismatic Wall, one Veil protects vs missile weapons, another vs breath weapons and so on. So, if a giant throws a big rock at you, you can block it with a Veil, etc.

I personally think Kalidiscopic Doom is kind of a lame capstone ability. Purple Veil is the better of the 2 abilities gained at that level, especially since its available as an immediate action. It just seems so meh at the level you get it (what, like level 17?) compared to spending your action casting spells such as "Shapechange" or "IWIN".

Galathir
2007-11-07, 09:32 AM
Essentially ignore any attack four times a day. And keep full spellcasting? Yes please!

I played a IotSV once for a one-shot (like level 14 or something). I thought it was a pretty lousy class until I actually used it in combat. I pretty much took care of every encounter by myself, including the BBEG at the end. Overpowered, absolutely.