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Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-07, 07:42 AM
Out of Character Thread for a campaign using Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil.

In Character Thread 2 (Current): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121918
In-Character Thread 1: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65354

The Valiant Heroes
Megiddo (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=1907): Mystic Cerebremancer
Grigor (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=54723): Cleric of Olidammara


Cohorts
Aratos Tell (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=30905): Magnificent Druid Explorer

MIA
Ranelath Sunscythe (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=52848): Paladin of Pelor

1Sections below may be added to later.

Verbobonc Information
Government: Semi-independent realm of Archclericy of Veluna ruled by Viscount Langard of Verbobonc. Feudal-style government with 14 individual feifs. Capital is Town of Verbobonc (pop. 12,700).
Demographics: Pop. 177, 800; 79% Human (primarily Oerdian, with Flan, Suloise, and Rhennee), 9% Sylvan Elf, 5% Gnome, 3% Halfling, 2% Dwarf, 2% Half-elf and Half-orc; dominant alignments: Lawful Good, Neutral, Lawful Neutral
Languages: Common
Major Religions: St. Cuthbert (dominant), Ehlonna, Zilchus, Fharlaghn, Obad-Hai, Beory
Coinage: leaf (pp), wheatsheaf (gp), knight (ep), spire (sp), common (cp)
Unofficial Motto: Earth and Stone, Man and Gnome
Prominent Geographical Features and Boundaries: Lortmil Mountains (West), Gnarley Forest (East), Velverdyva River (North), Kron Hills (South), Iron Wood (Northwest-Central)
Map of the Verbobonc Region
http://www.divshare.com/img/2701240-008.jpg
Larger Version (http://www.divshare.com/img/2701239-70a.jpg)

Special Notes
Greyhawk-specific information
Non-core Languages: Ancient Baklunish, Flan, Old Oerdian, Ancient Suloise
Human subraces: Baklunish, Flan, Oerdian, Olman, Rhennee, Suloise
Calendar: Year is 364 days, 12 months of 30 days each with an extra festival day every three months. Summer lasts about six months, every other season only two.
Satellites: Two moons. The Great Moon, Luna, cycles every 28 days. The Lesser Moon, Celene, cycles every three months.
Knowledge Skills: I am a big proponent of using Knowledge skills other than those listed in the books when they make sense. If you have a special request, ask me. I will always allow "specialization" into one of subgroups listed under a primary knowledge skill. For instance, an undead-hunter that doesn't care much about gods and goddesses, mythic history, ecclesiastic tradition, or holy symbols can take Knowledge (undead) instead of Knowledge (religion). Typically the DCs for the specialized checks will be 5 lower than the DC for the same task than for the parent skill. However, the specialist will not be able to make checks regarding other areas of the parent skill.
Starting Date: Campaign will be starting in early Planting (the first summer month), 591 C.Y.
Guidelines to Keep the Game Running Smoothly
When I roll for characters: I will generally only roll for characters on initiative checks and when they are defending against an opposed roll instigated by an NPC. This is to keep things running quickly.
Attacks of Opportunity: Since there is rarely any benefit to holding off on an AoO, I will generally assume a PC will take attacks of opportunity when presented and make the attack for them in the interest of keeping things running smoothly and quickly. If there is a situation where you may not wish to take an AoO, let me know. Likewise let me know if you only want to make certain kinds of attacks for your AoOs.
Immediate Actions: These generally have a higher cost than AoOs, so I will never assume you would use an Immediate action unless you specify particular conditions ahead of time. Am willing to retroactively apply an immediate action if necessary.
Target Posting Rate: 1 post a day. May change to 1 post every other day if I find myself unable to post daily.
I reserve the right to run a PC myself if that PC does not post for several days and is slowing the game down past an unreasonabl level. Please clear abscences ahead of time whenever possible.
Remember the Greater World:While this campaign is based mostly around one large dungeon, don't forget there's more to the world than the Temple of Elmental Evil. Be sure to cultivate resources on the outside. You never know when a friendly contact or home base may come in handy.

House Rules:
HP: Max at 1st level. Each level thereafter, either roll or take half the hit die's maximum and add one. You must decide before rolling.
Knowledge Checks: You can retry Knowledge checks if the original was made during a stressful situation. Can only retry by taking 10 after the situation has passed.
Psionic Monsters: All creatures with a "Psionics" entry use the actual psionic variant instead of the standard spell-like abilities.
Polymorph: Will take use the official recommendation that the core polymorph-related spells no longer be used. Instead, use the new polymorph subschool spells.
Wildshape: In the spirit of the polymorph ruling, we should restrict ourselves to the Shapechange druid variant from PH2.
No Multiclass Penalties: They achieve no real balance purpose nor do they make sense conceptually. They are more hindrance than help.

Skjaldbakka
2007-11-09, 12:39 AM
I have now switched over to this thread, and dropped my subscription to the other one. I believe the idea was to move discussion here, now that we are getting the game in the works?

I'll get started on my Cerebremancer tonight.


Major Religions: St. Cuthbert (dominant), Ehlonna, Zilchus, Fharlaghn, Obad-Hai, Beory

Who are Zilchus and Beory, or are they sufficiently obscure that my character would need Knowledge: Religion to know?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-09, 08:29 AM
Who are Zilchus and Beory, or are they sufficiently obscure that my character would need Knowledge: Religion to know?
They're probably the most common Greyhawk deities of the ones that have been pretty much ignored in Core D&D material. I tend to see a large number of references to them when I read Greyhawk-specific articles.

Zilchus is a Lawful Neutral Oeridian god of Power, Prestige, Money, Business, and Influence. Core Domains are Knowledge, Law, and Trickery. Non-core domains listed in more recent Living Greyhawk material include City (I don't have access to the book that's from), Mind, and Pact. Favored weapon is the dagger. Holy symbol is a pair of hands clutching a bag of gold. His general philosophy is similar to the Ferengi from Star Trek. "The key to success power is controlling your desire for money while exploiting it in others. Anything can be done better for profit. Politics and war are simply two other forms of trade—one using words, the other lives."

Beory is a Neutral goddess of Oerth, Nature, and Rain. She's a mother nature type figure. Her clerics tend to be true Neutral or Neutral Good. Her domains are Animal, Creation, Earth, Plant, Water, and Weather. Her favored weapon is the club. Beory's Holy symbol is a green disk marked with a circle or a rotund woman figurine. While very powerful, she also very distant, being concerned only with the health of the world as a whole.

Anyway, that list is just the major religions practiced in Verbobonc. Feel free to include any other Greyhawk/Core deities you like in your character's background if it makes sense. Just remember that folks in Greyhawk are very rarely exclusively devoted only to a select deity or two unless they are clergy. Most folks may have their favorites, but they also know enough to pay their respects to whichever deity is most appropriate in any given situation.

Another_Poet
2007-11-09, 09:45 AM
Okay, I've subbed this thread now.

Beory sounds like She would be right up Tell's alley. I think I'll replace his slight devotion to Heironeous with a slight devotion to Her instead.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-09, 10:29 AM
Okay.

BTW—a few other major nature-related deities are the Oeridian seasonal deities Atroa (Spring), Sotillion (Summer), Wenta (Autumn), and Telchur (Winter). Telchur is male, the others are female. All are children of Procan, a god of the Sea and Weather (they also have a brother named Velnius). These seasonal deities tend to see a bit of extra worship during the festivals.

Thought you might want to be aware of them.

There's a document with descriptions of Greyhawk deities including ones that are not included in any general D&D publications on the Living Greyhawk (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/welcome) website. You can check it out if you're interested. It's a zipped PDF called "Living Greyhawk Deities v.2.0".

Another_Poet
2007-11-09, 02:21 PM
Cool, thanks for the info. Is it particularly meaningful to decide which human race Tell is from?

He is black if that helps decide it.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-09, 03:25 PM
Cool, thanks for the info. Is it particularly meaningful to decide which human race Tell is from?

He is black if that helps decide it.
Not particularly meaningful unless you want to take it in a particular direction with your character. The different groups have been more or less freely mixing for generations, so there's not a lot of importance to the issue in civilized society. I mostly mention it as a way of throwing out some flavor into the world.

The only groups that really have black folk are Flan and Olman. Beory is primarily a Flan deity, so that works out if you go with Flan. Going by the Living Greyhawk PDF, the Olman deities are the Aztec pantheon (it's not identified in Living Greyawk Gazeteer, but the Olman are described as adopting the was of "alien gods"). From what I gather, the Olman are also pretty isolated as a people, not really contributing to the mixing mentioned above.

Most of the other human races are described as having golden, tan, or olive skin. The one exception is the Suloise, who tend to be extremely pale.

Of course, with a lot of these peoples interacting, there's a fair number of people with mixed heritage. Unless specified otherwise, you can probably assume most folk have a little mix going on. (Though the Rhennee and Olman are the least likely to contribute to any particular mix.)

Another_Poet
2007-11-09, 04:24 PM
Oh, that's pretty cool. Funny, Olman reminded me of Olmec so I am not surprised by the Aztec deity thing.

I suppose Tell can just be Flan then, though the name is unappealing, but hey, tha'ts not up to him. What kind of society do the Flan have? I picture Tell being from a European-style medieval country.

Edited to add: I did look around the Living Greyhawk pages to try to find this info myself, but apparently didn't look hard enough.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-09, 05:29 PM
I suppose Tell can just be Flan then, though the name is unappealing, but hey, tha'ts not up to him. What kind of society do the Flan have? I picture Tell being from a European-style medieval country.
Well, the Flanaess, which is the name given to the main region of the Greyhawk setting take their name from the Flan people.

The Flan were a largely nomadic folk, the first to live in the Flanaess. However, they were displaced by Oerdian and Suloise migration and have pretty much settled since then. Their hunter-gather roots are still shown by a strong reverence for nature. Those who live in the cities tend to raise gardens.

Flan usually keep a tree planted near their homes. The health of the tree is said to mirror the health of the family. They believe the season in which a child is born affects the childs later life. They have a strong oral tradition.

Flan clothing tends towards being made from animal hides. The style is generally simple and in primary colors. Body painting and tatoos were once common methods of adornment, and some groups of Flan still practice these, particluraly the Rovers of the Barrens.

Spellcasters tend to maintain the Flan naturalistic bent in their magic. As such, most divine casters are druids.


Edited to add: I did look around the Living Greyhawk pages to try to find this info myself, but apparently didn't look hard enough.
Pretty much all the info on politics and culture in 3.x Greyhawk comes from the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/867270000). The website is really only good for the hard rules related stuff.

Of course, the setting is meant to advance in real time, so there's almost eight years of additional politics and history resulting from Living Greyhawk story arcs. I never really played seriously enough to follow everything going on in the campaign, though, so none of that will be taken into account at all in this game. (:smallwink:) That's also why I'm keeping the starting date at 591.

[hr]Any of you guys planning on having adventured together before? Or are ya gonna just be a few mid-level adventurers that just met on the road when the hook hits? It'll be good to know that when it comes to orchestrating said hook. :smallwink:

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-09, 08:05 PM
<hr>Any of you guys planning on having adventured before? Or are ya gonna just be a few mid-level adventurers that just met on the road when the hook hits? It'll be good to know that when it comes to orchestrating said hook. :smallwink:

My idea right now is a dwarven cleric of Bahamut. He adventured abit throughout his life, but as he grew old he came to realize that he would not be able to serve his lord accurately in his current form. Thus, he requested to become a Dragonborn.

So in short: Ya.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-09, 08:16 PM
Um... I meant to say "adventured together." In other words: "Do your characters know each other?" By sixth level, you should have adventured before. :smalltongue:

Hm... Dragonborn... That's from Races of the Dragon correct? And available on the WotC website?

Also: Added a map of the Verbobonc region to the info above. It's a scan from the module. Curiously enough, it does not label the Viscounty proper despite having all the surrounding nations labeled.

[hr]EDIT: Okay, looked up Dragonborn on the WotC website (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1). It refers several times to a "Mechanics of Rebirth" sidebar that is not reproduced on the site. I'm definitely gonna want to know what's in that sidebar and any other necessary rules information on Dragonborn not provided on the site.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-09, 09:25 PM
Crunch is done (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=31260).

Mechanics of Rebirth: I keep my creature type and gain the Dragonblood subtype. Any racial hit die remain. Racial ability modifiers remain. Size doesn't change, powerful build remains. Land speed is the same, as are other methods of movement. Abilities like the Dwarf's ability to move regardless of armor isn't retained. You keep any languages and gain Draconic for free. You keep your original favored class and gain Fighter as well. You can freely multiclass into Paladin. You retain your original level adjustment. Any other racial abilities(bonus feats, attack bonuses, save bonuses, etc.) are lost.

In otherwords: I'm a dwarf in the sense that I have +2 CON/-2 CHA. Everything else is subsumed into Dragonborn's racial traits. Which is another +2 CON/-2 DEX. End result: +4 CON/-2 CHA/-2 DEX.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-09, 10:18 PM
So you lose almost all your racial abilities but retain your entire LA? That is so wrong. I mean, say a Drow would retain its entire +2 LA despite only having "unbalanced ability scores" on the list of LA-worthy traits (and only mildly unbalanced at that) while having lost the Save bonuses, Darkvision, Weapon Proficiencies, Spell Resistance, and Spell-like abilities. Totally wrong. :smallyuk:

Well, dwarf doesn't have any LA anyway, so it doesn't matter to us right now. Oh, well.

From the excerpt on the website it seems you keep the dwarf subtype, too.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-09, 11:20 PM
So you lose almost all your racial abilities but retain your entire LA?

I know, it's stupid isn't it? But if you didn't keep the LA, then you could make something like a Rakshaka Dragonborn at ECL 1 who has +2 STR, +2 DEX, +8 CON, +2 INT, +2 WIS and +6 CHA. So it makes sense in a game-balance mindset.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-09, 11:33 PM
I know, it's stupid isn't it? But if you didn't keep the LA, then you could make something like a Rakshaka Dragonborn at ECL 1 who has +2 STR, +2 DEX, +8 CON, +2 INT, +2 WIS and +6 CHA. So it makes sense in a game-balance mindset.
Well, what really needs to happen is that the LA get reevaluated. Scores like that are probably worth +2 LA. You just don't need the whole +7 shebang.

Of course, heaven forbid the rules actually say, "The DM needs to reevaluate the LA." Nope, you gotta make it fit some one-size-fits-all formula. But since that won't really work, let's just make 'em keep the whole freakin' thing.

Okay, the DM holistically reevaluating the LA is what's actually gonna happen in any reasonable campaign with a DM that's not averse to a bit of work. But not every campaign fits that description. So let's not make obviously stupid rules with the Oberoni Fallacy as a backup defense.

EDIT: Tarinth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?find=lastposter&t=15594) has agreed to join the game. Are we okay with a 4-man party or should I recruit a 5th and maybe 6th?

Another_Poet
2007-11-10, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the info on the Flan. That's perfect for Tell. He is from one of the more settled-down and urban areas, but couldn't deny his pull toward the wild.

I'm fine with Tell knowing one or more people prior to this adventure. I was assuming he had adventured with the others before, at least those who were in the Cave of Water campaign. You all know his personality pretty well by now so you'd have a good sense of whether you'd've stuck with him on the road.

I am open to a 4, 5, or 6 person party. It makes no difference to me, as long as the game still moves forward at a good rate.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-10, 09:03 PM
I've been working on a PbP mapping system to make tracking combat easier and keep me from having to do the extra work of constantly updating the map myself.

Just so I know my implementation options: Is everyone using a browser that fully supports PNG transparency? That would be pretty much every current browser except for IE 6 or earlier.

Another_Poet
2007-11-12, 01:51 PM
I don't know what PNG is, but I am using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.7

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-12, 04:55 PM
I don't know what PNG is, but I am using Mozilla Firefox 2.0.0.7
PNG is an image file format. It's primary advantage on the web is the way it uses transparency. A GIF, wich was the only way to achieve any sort of transparency in images before PNGs came around only has two levels of transparency: 0% and 100%. So any given pixel is either totally opaque or completely invisible. With a PNG, however, you have 256 levels of transparency. This allows things like translucent images and better anti-aliasing with transparency.

Internet Explorer was notorious for not rendering transparency on PNGs properly up through version 6. Being a Mac Guy, I can't recall exactly what it did when mis-rendering a PNG, but I think it was something like making the pixel either totally opaque or totally transparent past a certain threshhold point. Now that IE 7 has proper support, it's really only an issue on older systems that don't support any up-to-date browsers. But since some people are stuck with such systems, I figure it's good to check.

Being an up-to-date browser, Firefox should work just fine for what I have in mind. :smallsmile:

:::EDIT:::

Here's a quick example of what PNG transparency can do: http://h1.ripway.com/shhalahr/pngExample.html. The blue rectangle is a PNG image. I used a complex background image to show you the variable levels of transparency.

:::END EDIT:::

Anyway, if there's no preference, I'll take the easy way and stick with a 4-person party. You've got a 2-level head start on the campaign anyway. :smalltongue:

Another_Poet
2007-11-13, 09:36 AM
Hmm, just realised that when I'm at work I'm using IE, and an older version to boot. The blue box is just a blue box (but it does have several shades of blue!).

So, when I post from work I may not be able to see what's going on. When I post from home I probably can (will find out this evening).

ap

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-13, 10:39 AM
I can see the PNG. And I'm still having trouble coming up with a backstory and name for my character.. I might just go with No Name. Or "Unimportant". Or "NPC". :smallamused:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-13, 06:07 PM
So, when I post from work I may not be able to see what's going on. When I post from home I probably can (will find out this evening).
Okay. I can see about some workarounds for that, then.

Which version of IE are you using? Is it 5.5 or 6? The most attractive workaround requires either of those versions. If it's earlier, it'll probably require something that results in uglier mapping of shadowy areas.

EDIT: Actually, if it is a really old IE, I could set it up so the ugly version only appears on really old IE, but that would require you to have a station with Javascript turned on. (You can test that by making sure the forum menu bar works :smallwink:)

But then, the whole system I have in mind requires Javascript. So that ain't nothin' new, I guess. :smalltongue:

Another_Poet
2007-11-14, 11:16 AM
Okay. I can see about some workarounds for that, then.

Which version of IE are you using? Is it 5.5 or 6? The most attractive workaround requires either of those versions. If it's earlier, it'll probably require something that results in uglier mapping of shadowy areas.

EDIT: Actually, if it is a really old IE, I could set it up so the ugly version only appears on really old IE, but that would require you to have a station with Javascript turned on. (You can test that by making sure the forum menu bar works :smallwink:)

But then, the whole system I have in mind requires Javascript. So that ain't nothin' new, I guess. :smalltongue:

I just checked and it is version 6.0.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-16, 10:39 AM
I just checked and it is version 6.0.
Okay. That's good. I can use the prettier workaround.

However, I've never used the workaround before, and I'll need some help testing it. I don't have easy access to Windows machines running IE 6 at the moment.

I've quickly assembled a test page at http://h1.ripway.com/shhalahr/RttToEE/transparencyTest.html.

On the page are two separate PNGs stacked on top of each other. One has a gradient using transparency. You should see the image under it come and go just fine, as I have used the workaround.

Under these images is a Control Image showing what the whole thing should look like. This is a single image with all opaque pixels, so Transparency won't be an issue.

Let me know if it works out. If there's a problem, it would be easiest if you can send me a screen capture showing me what it looks like.

(P.S. It's posible the code I used to position the images on top of each other might run into problems. So especially let me know if that doesn't work. That's gonna be more important than transparency.)

Another_Poet
2007-11-16, 02:31 PM
The two images look exactly the same. Some of the colours of the rainbow circle are transparent in each. Nice!

I have to say I'm impressed by the level of work you are putting into this Shhalahr. I definitely feel good about our choice of DM :)

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-18, 07:51 PM
I have to say I'm impressed by the level of work you are putting into this Shhalahr. I definitely feel good about our choice of DM :)
Thanks.

This is part of an idea I've been working on for some time. It's just that I'm only now getting around to implementing it.

Oh, and I'm trying to minimize active house rules, but one thing that's always bugged me is Turning Undead. I've just put my thoughts on the issue to thread and wouldn't mind you chiming in. Especially you Zero, as you're playing the cleric. Check it out.

Another_Poet
2007-11-19, 12:54 PM
Thanks.

This is part of an idea I've been working on for some time. It's just that I'm only now getting around to implementing it.

Oh, and I'm trying to minimize active house rules, but one thing that's always bugged me is Turning Undead. I've just put my thoughts on the issue to thread and wouldn't mind you chiming in. Especially you Zero, as you're playing the cleric. Check it out.

Well, I have no problem with house rules and I definitely see nothign wrong with this one. I've never been a huge fan of turning anyway. Both mechanically and flavour-wise it seems wonky to me, especially in an undead-heavy campaign. So if you can clean up the mechanics side it is a big improvement.

But, like you said, the cleric's opinion might count the most.

ap

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-19, 01:00 PM
To be honest, I didn't plan to do a whole lot of turning(hence my low Charisma score).

Tarinth
2007-11-19, 09:44 PM
OK, hi all. I am crossing over from the DM's other thread and will probably be palying a dragonwrought kobald rogue. Anywho, I haven't played too much D&D 3.5, so forgive me if i ever do something less than intelligent. I look forward to smiting evil with you all in the near future.

Another_Poet
2007-11-19, 10:45 PM
Welcome Tarinth!

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-21, 05:25 PM
How's the new Sadmir coming, Skjaldbakka?

Another_Poet
2007-11-22, 03:34 PM
I changed a feat and changed the spiked chain to Bane (Humanoid (Human)).

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-23, 09:27 AM
Zero, I just noticed Dragon #344 has a Metallic Dragon domain. Were you aware of that when making your cleric?

It's granted power is DR (1 + 1 per 5 levels)/adamantine.

Spells are:
Vision of Glory*
Shield Other
Diamondsteel*
Protection from Energy
Lesser Globe of Invulnerability
Wall of Iron
Ironguard*
Iron Body
Greater Draconic Ally*

* Spells marked with an asterisk are from Spell Compendium. I don't have that book, though. If you have it and want to use this domain in place of one of the ones you chose previously, you'll have to send me the description. If you don't have the book and want to use the domain anyway, I can either ask someone that does have it for the description or we can come up with some substitute spells.

Tarinth
2007-11-26, 02:32 PM
So, are we still palanning to start the in character thread this week boss?
Also, did Quintar or any other character from Magic Under the Sun decide to join up?

Entertainer13
2007-11-26, 04:09 PM
Hi, I come from the same thread as Tarinth. I'm gonna be with you for the foreseeable future, so, uh, hi!

I'm trying to get a Knight done this week.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-26, 08:14 PM
Zero, I just noticed Dragon #344 has a Metallic Dragon domain. Were you aware of that when making your cleric?

No, I wasn't aware of it. The granted power is good, but the spells are not too great. I'll be sticking with what I have. :smallbiggrin:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-27, 08:40 AM
M'kay. I had hoped to get it going this week, but with only two character sheets up so far—one of which doesn't even have a character name yet!—I think I'll have to give it just a bit more time. :smallsigh:

Another_Poet
2007-11-27, 09:25 AM
M'kay. I had hoped to get it going this week, but with only two character sheets up so far—one of which doesn't even have a character name yet!—I think I'll have to give it just a bit more time. :smallsigh:

Awww... (Tell is wise and patient, but I am jumping up and down ready to game!)

That said, welcome Entertainer13! Having a Knight around definitely won't hurt!

ap

Tarinth
2007-11-27, 10:52 AM
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=32909

Ok Boss, here's most of me. I will finish it later. I still need to know what kind of bonuses your thinking of for a dragonic race, either green or black, or the same bonuses for deep or shadow dragons just for roleplaying.

Also, I still have some money to throw around. Is there a cheap magical item that will help my fort saves, so a constituation booster I guess?

P.S. It would be really cool if you made an avatar for me. Pretty, pretty ,pretty, pleeeeeease... with sugar on top.:biggrin:

Another_Poet
2007-11-27, 01:08 PM
Also, I still have some money to throw around. Is there a cheap magical item that will help my fort saves, so a constituation booster I guess?


For CON I would just go with a classic, the Amulet of Health. from the SRD:


Amulet of Health
This amulet is a golden disk on a chain. It usually bears the image of a lion or other powerful animal. The amulet grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Constitution of +2, +4, or +6.

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, bear’s endurance; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6).

If you're mainly interested in your Fort save though, you might just spend the same 4,000 gp on a Cloak of Resistance and get +2 to all your saves.

ap

Tarinth
2007-11-27, 02:36 PM
A Cloak of Resistance huh, sounds perfect, and I have almost exactly 4,000gp left to spend in character creation. I'll have too get rid of my masterwork lockpicks to get it, but i can always pick those up. I now have 13 gp left, lucky huh.

This cloak's magical protection will stack with spells like elation and bless, right?

Another_Poet
2007-11-27, 04:58 PM
This cloak's magical protection will stack with spells like elation and bless, right?

The cloak offers a resistance bonus, and bless offers a morale bonus, so they should stack. I don't know what the spell Elation does, but as long as it is not a resistance bonus you should be okay.

ap

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-27, 05:16 PM
Finally named my guy. Other than that, I'm seriously having no inspiration for a backstory. Help would be appreciated. :smallfrown:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-27, 05:42 PM
I haven't quite decided how the people of Hommlet would treat a kobold, but I know it's not gonna be charitable. If you got the cash, a hat of disguise (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/magicItemsWI.html#hat-of-disguise) might be useful.

Another_Poet
2007-11-27, 08:06 PM
Finally named my guy. Other than that, I'm seriously having no inspiration for a backstory. Help would be appreciated. :smallfrown:

Well, what I'm unclear on is whether "Dragonborn" is someone with draconic ancestry (like half dwarf/half dragon) or is someone who is infused with draconic spirit/energy/etc, or what. So that might effect the usefulness of my idea.

But I would think that with dwarves drilling away through caves all the time, and dragons being so ferocious and mindful of their hoards, a team of dwarves digging into (or just remotely near) a dragon lair would cause an immediate reaction from the dragon. Even if the dwarves didn't mean to disturb anyone.

So, if such an accidental break-in were to occur, it could spark a generations-long feud between the dwarves and the dragon, with many dwarven lives lost before the dragon is defeated or agrees to a truce.

In such a conflict, wouldn't there be a chance for dwarf blood and dragon blood to mix together? And with dwarven suspicions being what they are, wouldn't the (un)fortunate dragonborn have good reason to turn to his draconic side for as much power and protection (Bahamut) as possible?

That kind of character could be an outcast of his society, or perhaps a hero among dwarves, the chosen priest who made peace with the dragon.

Seems like fertile ground to me.

:)

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-27, 08:16 PM
Finally named my guy. Other than that, I'm seriously having no inspiration for a backstory. Help would be appreciated. :smallfrown:
Don't have any specific ideas, but it would help if it reflected an unusual level of open-mindedness with respect to kobolds of chromatic dragon ancestry for a devotee of the deity of metallic dragons. :smallwink:

Another_Poet
2007-11-27, 10:18 PM
Don't have any specific ideas, but it would help if it reflected an unusual level of open-mindedness with respect to kobolds

Actually, that raises an interesting question (for Tarinth). Tell is not even a big fan of his fellow humans, who are neutral-ish nature-wreckers. Kobolds, being evil-ish nature-wreckers, are even worse. Tell's a primitivist, and anyone who isn't a hunter-gatherer seems wasteful to him. So:

What kind of community do/did your kobolds live in, Tarinth? How do y'all get by? And why the heck should a human druid sleep in the same camp as you at night?
(Other than the obvious reason of being a good player and not wrecking the game with drama.)

Just lookin' for an IC excuse to be accepting of my new traveling companion.

ap

Edited to add: If it's a good enough reason, Tell will even stick up for you in Hommlet. A druid with a human-bane weapon is at least as good a peasant-deterrent as a hat of disguise, and cheaper!

Skjaldbakka
2007-11-27, 11:36 PM
:smallfrown:

I forgot to bookmark this thread, and so lost track of it. I will have the cerebremancer up here tonight, barring a busy shift at the library.

sorry

Megiddo is a very nuetral character. By which I mean that his 'moral concerns' lie more along the lines of maintaining the balance of the cosmos. You may have gotten that idea before. His reason for traveling to the temple is because his research has led him to believe that there is a possibility of a breach or rupture or gate or some other blasted thing threatening the balance on the material plane.

Link to character sheet : ~80% complete (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=1907)


How's the new Sadmir coming, Skjaldbakka?

Goes w/o saying at this point, but I'm not Sadmir.

Can I reseach arcane versions of the detect (G/E/L/C) spells? I think it would be really thematic for this character, and I don't really see any balance issues. I'm also interested in the various holy smite/order's wrath/unholy blight/ . . . the chaos one spells, later on down the road. Which might pose some balance issues, but I really don't see alignment-based blast-it being a problem issue with a cerebremancer.

I just like the idea of this character having spells to find/destroy creatures (aligned outsiders) that threaten the delicate balance of forces that form the material plane.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-28, 08:20 AM
Megiddo is a very nuetral character. By which I mean that his 'moral concerns' lie more along the lines of maintaining the balance of the cosmos. You may have gotten that idea before. His reason for traveling to the temple is because his research has led him to believe that there is a possibility of a breach or rupture or gate or some other blasted thing threatening the balance on the material plane.
Okay. We got two Neutral characters.

And then a Neutral Good and a Lawful Evil... :smalleek:

Well, I've got word from Tarinth that his character knows how to behave around Goody-Two-Shoes, so I'm generally willing to give that a go. See if it works out.

The harder part is the aforementioned Metallic/Chromatic dragon dichotomy. That's the type of thing that runs deeper than alignment.

If we're assuming you guys already know each other, it's best to work that out in advance then. Even if not, let's start thinking about that kind of thing.


Link to character sheet : ~50% complete (http://www.coyotecode.net/profiler/view.php?id=1907)
Yay! :smallbiggrin:


Goes w/o saying at this point, but I'm not Sadmir.
:smallredface: Oops.


Can I reseach arcane versions of the detect (G/E/L/C) spells?
If you've got the cash to pay for the research, sure.

It kinda treads on divine caster territory, but I don't think the spells would be worth it at all if I bumped their levels, so we'll keep that the same.

They normally require a divine focus, so arcane versions should have a material component to compensate. Not sure what makes sense flavor-wise at this point. If you have any ideas, let me know.


I think it would be really thematic for this character, and I don't really see any balance issues. I'm also interested in the various holy smite/order's wrath/unholy blight/ . . . the chaos one spells, later on down the road. Which might pose some balance issues, but I really don't see alignment-based blast-it being a problem issue with a cerebremancer.
Well, given that those spells already exist anyway, I'm not particluarly concerned with balance. Just thematic appropriateness.

Hm. At the very least, those spells should be bumped up a level when transferred to arcane, I think.

If you have Complete Psionic, there are a number of alignment-themed powers. Unfortunately, most of those are stuck to the Ardent List. And Ardent doesn't mesh well with Cerebremancer since an ardent's versatility depends on gaining access to more mantles. So I'd stick with Psion.


I just like the idea of this character having spells to find/destroy creatures (aligned outsiders) that threaten the delicate balance of forces that form the material plane.
You did catch my warning that most of the outsiders are Element-based rather than aligned?

Of course, the aforementioned spells work on creatures of the appropriate alignment regardless of subtype. But I'd recommend avoiding things that tie you down with respect to aligned outsiders, such as bane weapons. Those won't get very much use, so it won't be fun.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-28, 09:23 AM
Dragonborn: It's a being that is a 'child' of Bahamut, given a new body that reflects his choice in life. That choice? Killing chromatic dragons. Alignment means nothing, as I don't believe a dragonborn would particularly care to adventure with an Evil character as long as the individual didn't try to oppress or maim random passerbys. But the chromatic thing is an issue. A big one.

Another_Poet
2007-11-28, 11:57 AM
The LE alignment on the kobold means little to Tell, though he is still hoping to be given a good reason to travel with a kobold.

The chromatic thing I'll leave up to our resident dragons.

Megiddo, unsurprisingly, looks like the kind of person Tell would definitely get along with and even enjoy the company of. He would that trying to regulate and enforce balance is a little silly--those things work themselves out don't you know--but to each his own. Skjaldbakka, would it be cool with you if we link our backgrounds, having met on the road years ago and traveled together since? It's easy to imagine (especially having been in the last campaign together), and I could see Tell tagging along for Megiddo's investigations, and Megiddo tagging along as Tell simply follows the wind. Whaddya think?

ap

Tarinth
2007-11-28, 12:00 PM
Well, I would personally like to be a shadow dragon kobold, but the boss hasn't left feedback for my last post yet, and those aren't really true chromatics are they? Anywho, As a trapmaker expert, I would normally occupy a high rank in my clan, but I'm off adventuring which is really rare. I feel that my character must have been rejected for some reason. Maybe a trap I made accidentally killed someone important in my clan or something, I don't know for sure yet. Anyway, I have been forced to live in the outside world for some time now, and I know how to keep my manners straight. Since I'm Lawful, I have learned to respect the customs and rules of my new society, but of course I'm still evil and will find convenient loopholes to keep myself alive or in an advantageous position. Just remember I'm palying to the lawful side. A lone kobold is surely ment to die, so I know I need companions to be successful. Team playing is what kobolds do best.

Edit: I don't really have the money or the desire for a hat of disguise, so in the worst case scenario, I'll just stay out of the town and buy a tent or something. Also, you guys can always tell the townsfolk I've been charmed or something.

Another_Poet
2007-11-28, 10:42 PM
Tarinth--

The druid in me wants to day, "Tent outside of town? LUCKY!!" but the adventurer thinks that's even more dangerous--no one to vouch for you or help you in a fight. I reckon we can keep our own friends safe, and if the townspeople don't like it they can defeat the Temple of Evil themselves.

:)

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-28, 11:09 PM
Well, I would personally like to be a shadow dragon kobold, but the boss hasn't left feedback for my last post yet, and those aren't really true chromatics are they?
Well, I don't even know for sure where to find the 3e stats for shadow dragons. So aside from "Hide", I'm not sure what other skills might be appropriate. :smalltongue:

In any case, while the distinction is strongest on the Metallic/Chromatic scale, Bahamut is a god of good dragons and would be opposed to evil ones on principle, Chromatic or Otherwise.


Since I'm Lawful, I have learned to respect the customs and rules of my new society, but of course I'm still evil and will find convenient loopholes to keep myself alive or in an advantageous position. Just remember I'm palying to the lawful side. A lone kobold is surely ment to die, so I know I need companions to be successful. Team playing is what kobolds do best.
Yeah. But it's the whole "Enjoys Causing Undue Suffering" vs. the "Feels Obligated to Prevent Undue Suffering" thing that really tends to cause trouble in the end. Even when you're trying to do what you feel is best for the team.

Skjaldbakka
2007-11-28, 11:11 PM
Of course, the aforementioned spells work on creatures of the appropriate alignment regardless of subtype. But I'd recommend avoiding things that tie you down with respect to aligned outsiders, such as bane weapons. Those won't get very much use, so it won't be fun.

I have no intention of spending a great deal of focus on them. The idea was to research them, and then have a scroll or two on my person at any given time. Once I reach the level to get access to them. Megiddo's philosophy extended to elemental balance as well, but blow-it-up spells already exist for that purpose (cold damage spells for fire creatures, fire spells for cold creatures, etc.)


Megiddo, unsurprisingly, looks like the kind of person Tell would definitely get along with and even enjoy the company of. He would that trying to regulate and enforce balance is a little silly--those things work themselves out don't you know--but to each his own. Skjaldbakka, would it be cool with you if we link our backgrounds, having met on the road years ago and traveled together since? It's easy to imagine (especially having been in the last campaign together), and I could see Tell tagging along for Megiddo's investigations, and Megiddo tagging along as Tell simply follows the wind. Whaddya think?

Sure, I'd be cool with that. We could even have the previuos adventure be part of our backstory. That was all about shutting down a portal/brreach to the negative energy plane (as far as I'm concerned). Things you would know about Megiddo:

Megiddo does not use summoning or calling spells or powers. Ever. He preferentially targets enemies that do, and berates allies that use those abilities. It it his belief that extraplanar beings ought to remian on there proper plane of existence.



Well, given that those spells already exist anyway, I'm not particluarly concerned with balance. Just thematic appropriateness.

Hm. At the very least, those spells should be bumped up a level when transferred to arcane, I think.

Awesome. I was worried I would have to invest feats, skill ranks, and magic items to be able to use those spells (which will probably only come into play once or twice).

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-28, 11:25 PM
Sure, I'd be cool with that. We could even have the previuos adventure be part of our backstory.
In planning hooks I was pretty much assuming the whole party would at least be acquainted (even if just before starting off for Hommlet).

Of course, for the others—Zero, Kobold, and Knight—I suppose I could work something out if you want to play just meeting at the Inn of the Welcome Wench. :smalltongue:

Another_Poet
2007-11-29, 01:09 AM
Interesting about the summoning spells. Tell never used them in the last campaign, but I just took Augment Summoning when I rebuilt him for this one :)

Anyway, Tell is generally hesitant to call up creatures who might lose their lives on his behalf. If he does so it will probably be in a pretty dire battle, or (alternately) in a battle where he is sure they will come out okay.

We can all know each other beforehand, I was just thinking Megiddo and Tell would know each other wayyyyy beforehand.

Tarinth, don't suppose you just want to switch to Neutral? I think it would mostly be a crunch switch, as it sounds like your character concept is pretty team-friendly.

ap

Skjaldbakka
2007-11-29, 01:25 AM
Anyway, Tell is generally hesitant to call up creatures who might lose their lives on his behalf.

Megiddo couldn't care less about whether they die or not. He just doesn't think extraplanar beings belong on the material plane, even for short periods of time. Don't expect him to be too careful about keeping your summoned creatures out of his spell radii.

Re: Spell research

Is it going to cost the full 1,000gp to research each detect spell, or will it be cheaper to research the other ones(after the first)? It just seems that detect evil should be easier to research after you have already figured out detect good, chaos, and law.

If not, I am perfectly fine coughing up the 4Gs for those spells.

Also:
Are we starting at exactly level 6, or with some XPs for scroll production?

*I'm going to assume we are a little above, given the negligible amount of XP that scroll producion entails.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-29, 08:00 AM
Megiddo couldn't care less about whether they die or not. He just doesn't think extraplanar beings belong on the material plane, even for short periods of time.
Well, remember, animals, magical beasts, and fey summoned via summon nature's ally aren't inherently extraplanar. There's nothing to suggest that they come from other planes. They can be summoned directly from elsewhere on the prime material as far as the rules are concerned.

The only creatures that pose a definite problem with the whole planar balance concept are the elementals, arrowhawks, salammanders and tojanidas.


Is it going to cost the full 1,000gp to research each detect spell, or will it be cheaper to research the other ones(after the first)? It just seems that detect evil should be easier to research after you have already figured out detect good, chaos, and law.
Hm...

I guess a discount's okay. Make it full price for the first, three quarters for the second, and half for the last two. Like a Staff.


Are we starting at exactly level 6, or with some XPs for scroll production?
How about a 200 xp bonus? At the price of what you can make at this level, that should be plenty.

15,200 XP for starting total.

Another_Poet
2007-11-29, 09:37 AM
Thanks Shhalahr, I was wondering about that. I knew "extraplanar" was not mentioned in the SNA spell description but wasn't sure if there was a ruling somewhere else.

@Skjaldbakka: If Tell summons critters to help, he views them as full party members (this is a guy who talks to rocks, remember). In fact, they are particularly noble party members, as they seldom have a stake in the battle or anything to gain from it. As such, should they be intentionally targeted or "forgotten" when a spell goes off, he will react to the intra-party violence accordingly.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-29, 10:33 AM
Thanks Shhalahr, I was wondering about that. I knew "extraplanar" was not mentioned in the SNA spell description but wasn't sure if there was a ruling somewhere else.
Yeah. I double checked the definition of the summoning subschool to make sure it didn't make a general ruling of extraplanar. No, it just says summoned creatures and objects come from "somewhere else."

Unless otherwise noted in specific descriptions, I'm gonna assume that the creature appears straight from the Monster Manual. So unless the entry specifies the Extraplanar subtype, the summoned creature came from the Prime Material.

Tarinth
2007-11-29, 01:33 PM
Well, I could change to nutral and betray my character, but it sounds like the actual issue here is my draconic heritage. If The dwarf cannot accept me, the DM never should have cleared me for character creation. I don't want to create another character though, so if this won't work, then I'm out. No hard feelings to PC's. I understand you had your characters first, but i was unaware how serious you were and the DM didn't tell me it would be a big issue. My players have a lawful good paladin and a nutral evil orc fighter, but aside from some lip service, they work out fine. Good and evil are not black and white people. Everyone is on a grayscale.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-29, 02:35 PM
Well, I could change to nutral and betray my character, but it sounds like the actual issue here is my draconic heritage. If The dwarf cannot accept me, the DM never should have cleared me for character creation.
That is correct. It was an oversight on my part. When I helped you work on your character, I didn't really think about that conflict beyond the alignment issue. It wasn't until later that I realized I should have brought it up right when you said you wanted to play a kobold. Regardless of your alignment. For that I am sorry.

But I think we still have a chance at working something out.


My players have a lawful good paladin and a nutral evil orc fighter, but aside from some lip service, they work out fine.
I was under the impression even in 2e paladins were forbidden from associating with evil characters in this fashion.


Good and evil are not black and white people. Everyone is on a grayscale.
Black and White do exist on the full Grayscale spectrum. So even in a world of Grays there is still Black and there is still White.

Even without pure Black or White, gray can be quite dark or extremely light.

In any case, no matter how long an association goes on, there will be problems in a relationship when a person who feels morally obligated to prevent and avoid causing undue suffering of others (i.e. a person with a Good alignment) has to come to terms with the fact his or her associate actually enjoys causing undue suffering in others (Evil).

Now, the reason I've let things get this far is because I'm okay with a bit of intra-party tension. It can add to the drama or otherwise create interesting scenes. Some people tend to think a party has to be in constant harmony. I'm willing to let things slide a bit more.

Unfortunately, I think I let things slide a bit too far already—and we haven't even started the game yet!

In any case, I fail to see how making the kobold morally neutral would entail much if any sacrifice. Your devotion to playing with the team would keep you from playing out much actual Evil anyway unless you fell into the habit of frequently sneaking off on your own. And this is one of those dungeons that defines just how bad an idea "Let's split up" is.

Tarinth
2007-11-29, 02:43 PM
Right, but my alignment isn't the issue, it's a racially motivated one. If he has to slay chromatics, then I'm pretty much screwed.
Anyway, a neutral good Kobold, c'mon, who would buy that one? At the very least, I feel I should be chaotic if i have to be good.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-29, 02:59 PM
Right, but my alignment isn't the issue, it's a racially motivated one.
Which is where bucking the trend of your race would help.


Anyway, a neutral good Kobold, c'mon, who would buy that one? At the very least, I feel I should be chaotic if i have to be good.
I'm talking moral neutrality. Not ethical.

As in Lawful Evil —> Lawful Neutral.

Of course, Neutral Good would help you out with the cleric a bit more. But if he's willing to hang out with a couple of True Neutral bozos* like Tell and Megiddo, I don't think Lawful Neutral would be much of a stretch, alignment wise.

Theoretically, it could be a bit more of a stretch when combined with the racial prejudice. But I trust Lo'Koren is elastic enough to cover the gap.

In any case, Kobolds in the MM are listed as only being "Usually Lawful Evil". According to the Glossary, that means only about 50% of kobolds in the world can be counted on having a Lawful Evil alignment. Naturally, the second most common alignments would most likely be Lawful Neutral and Neutral Evil.

Compare this to True Dragons which have the "Always" descriptor for their alignments. That translates to over 99% but not quite 100% of their type having the indicated alignment.
[hr]* :smallwink:

Another_Poet
2007-11-29, 03:01 PM
Hi Tarinth,

I didn't mean you should become NG, I was suggesting LN or even CN if you want. And it was meant as a soft suggestion, that stuff really is up to you.

Acourse, the chromatic thing I can't weigh in on. Looked like Shhalahr was open to coming up with a 3.5 Shadow Dragon for you to go off of, though. So I recon if you were a Shadow Dragon and switched to some kind of non-evil alignment even the Bahamut Bomber over there couldn't hold much of a grudge toward you.

:)

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-29, 03:22 PM
Looked like Shhalahr was open to coming up with a 3.5 Shadow Dragon for you to go off of, though. So I recon if you were a Shadow Dragon and switched to some kind of non-evil alignment even the Bahamut Bomber over there couldn't hold much of a grudge toward you.
Yeah. The only thing that makes me reluctant to use Shadow Dragon is my utter ignorance of Shadow Dragons as represented in 3rd edition.

However, if it's something that can help patch things up, I'll definitely go with it. As I mentioned before, Hide seems the obvious choice for Dragonwrought skill bonus.

Oh, Zero, I suddenly realize I can't find a source that lists Bahamut having the Nobility Domain. Neither Deities and Demigods, Complete Divine, nor the Living Greyhawk deities document list that in their descriptions of Bahamut. And the Glossary entry on WotC (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Nobilitydomain&alpha=N) only lists Forgotten Realms deities, using the description from Player's Guide to Faerûn. What source did you get this match up from? (Probably Races of the Dragon, since that's where you got most of the dragon stuf... But I gotta ask and make sure. :smallwink:)

Tarinth
2007-11-29, 04:23 PM
Yeah, I know niether of us know about Shadow dragons, but like you said, it's just a hide bonus, so their other abilities don't matter any more than chromatic abilities matter. It's all just for role palying purposes but with equivalent abilities. I am not asking for a Shadow dragon to have more power, but rather because it's cooler and more group oriented in this case. A deep dragon would be fine too considering it is the primary dragon of the underdark.
Anyway Boss, what is your final ruling on Alignment? I guess i could swing lawful nutral if you feel it is best, although I feel it takes something away from the character.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-29, 04:57 PM
A deep dragon would be fine too considering it is the primary dragon of the underdark.
Now, I really don't know what would be the most appropriate skill for a Deep Dragon.


Anyway Boss, what is your final ruling on Alignment? I guess i could swing lawful nutral if you feel it is best, although I feel it takes something away from the character.
I think it's probably best we go with Lawful Neutral for now.

Tarinth
2007-11-29, 09:14 PM
Roger that Shhalahr.

Ok, does a LN Shadow dragonwrought kobold work for everyone?:smallsmile:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-29, 09:36 PM
Hm.

Just got thinking about general campaign hooks to get you guys going in Hommlet, but it's possible that "hates planar incursions" thing could be enough for Mediggo. If he's the scholarly type, he might be interested in doing a research project on the Temple.

Of course when it comes to motivation, just remember starting out that the Temple's supposed to be dormant. So he wouldn't be actively looking for a fight at first.

Another bit of recent history that Mediggo would be interested in—but won't affect the campaign much—is the Flight of Fiends.

When the demigod Iuz returned to power about twenty years ago, he quickly built up an army. As part of this army, he summoned a large number of fiends. Eventually, his attempt at a power grab instigated the Greyhawk Wars, a massive conflict between most of the nations of the Flanaaes.

When the Greyhawk Wars ended six years ago, there were still many fiends wandering the Flanaaes. This didn't last long, though, as in 586 CY, Canon Hazen, ruler of Veluna (the nation to which Verbobonc owes fealty) used an artifact known as the Crook of Rao to banish almost every fiend in the Flanaaes. This event is known as the Flight of Fiends.

(When considering backgrounds, note that the Greyhawk Wars ended less than a decade ago. So that might have some bearing on your characters.)

Tarinth
2007-11-29, 10:29 PM
OK, we're running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, right, so that implies there has already been a historic Temple of Elemental Evil that other adventurers faced before us. So, do the townspeople know about the temple and its history. I know it was a secret, but the lid has already been blown off, right?

I was just thinking that Mediggo could be going to research it anyway for historic reasons and have brought some buds along incase there are local monsters near the ruins that reinhabited it, if Mediggo wants to go that rought. Anywho, you guys can probably set this up better than I cuz I've never played in Greyhawk before.

Entertainer13
2007-11-29, 11:05 PM
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=33297

Lor Stillford, Knight of Heironius and defender of the weak. Here she comes!

Skjaldbakka
2007-11-29, 11:15 PM
Well, remember, animals, magical beasts, and fey summoned via summon nature's ally aren't inherently extraplanar. There's nothing to suggest that they come from other planes. They can be summoned directly from elsewhere on the prime material as far as the rules are concerned.

Summon nature's ally honestly hadn't occured to me when I made that statement. Megiddo would have no problem with the majority of the things you could summon with that. So long as you steer clear of summoning the extraplanar things on that list, there won't be any tension.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 07:57 AM
OK, we're running Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, right, so that implies there has already been a historic Temple of Elemental Evil that other adventurers faced before us. So, do the townspeople know about the temple and its history. I know it was a secret, but the lid has already been blown off, right?
Oh, on the whole it's not a secret. You see, Verbobonc is a very small viscounty. As a result, there are only two towns that really make the maps of any other nation.

The first is the city of Verbobonc. That's because it's a major trading port on the Velverdyva River. (Partially because there's no prejudice against the Rhenee traders.)

The second is the tiny village of Hommlet. Hommlet's sole claim to fame is its role as a staging ground against the two previous risings of the Temple of Elemental Evil.

Yes, that's right. Two risings. The first occured about 25 years ago. The conflict culminated in a large army vs. army battle. Though the Temple's army was defeated, the allied armies that defeated it left the temple standing on account of its protective wards and dangerous labyrinths.

The second occured just before the Greyhawk Wars. This time the entire temple itself was destroyed due to repeated hit and run expeditions by groups of adventurers (that is to say the original Temple of Elemental Evil module was the story of the second rising).

Since so few reputable sources were ever inside the Temple itself, there are few known details on what the temple itself was like. Likewise, the conflicts with the Temple came about because the Temple attracted bandits and eventually tried for a land/power grab. As this was enough to precipitate the above incidents, little is known about the overarching goals of the Temple.

One thing that can be counted upon is that during the second rising, the adventurers that brought the Temple down fought a powerful demon in the lowest dungeons of the Temple.

(I was originally saving the history lesson for the first IC post... but I don't think it'll hurt now... :smallamused:)


Lor Stillford, Knight of Heironius and defender of the weak. Here she comes!
Awesome Possum!

Does this mean we're ready to start next week?


Summon nature's ally honestly hadn't occured to me when I made that statement.
Despite the fact you were talking to a druid? :smalltongue:

Hm. Just thinking about hooks...

If the "history scholar" hook doesn't work and you're still looking for an excuse to be in Hommlet, I can give you a few already-accounted-for hook possibilities. If ya wanna choose one.
Visiting family that lives in Hommlet
Playing courier—delivering message to a wayward paladin
Guarding a supply wagon bound for the Hommlet Town militia
Tracking down an assassin
Passing through and buying potions
(For Tell in particular) Meeting with a local druid
Studying the Temple (included for completeness)

Another_Poet
2007-11-30, 09:40 AM
Ah yes, the Greyhawk Wars, I remember them well! (Not really.) Tell served as a man-at-arms during the opening battles of the war. It was when he completed his service that he set out to be a hermit in the wilderness, leaving the still-raging war behind.

No problem about Nature's Ally then, Megiddo. (Until I summon my Thoqquar! Mwahahahahahaha!!!)

There's a local druid I can meet with here? I feel a whoop coming on I feel a whoop coming on...

Whooop!
Whooop!
Whooop!
Whooop!

Is she/he old? Been in the area long? A druid who was around for the various Temple battles could really help my unnature studies....

In fact, mention of this druid and all this Temple of Evil nonsense is probably how Megiddo talked me into coming along on his research trip.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 11:26 AM
Lo'Koren doesn't care about alignment(mostly) as long as people are willing to assist him in his ultimate goal.

Shadow Dragons: I'm fairly certain Dragonborn only extend 'chromatic' to mean 'Tiamat spawn'. Since Shadow, Deep, any of the chinese dragons, or even the plane-based dragons aren't Tiamat's kids then I doubt Dragonborn's mission to kill chromatics applies there. You could always be a Styx Dragonwrought Kobold.

Further, kobolds venerate all forms of dragonkind regardless of their connection to Tiamat. Why not be a Gold Dragonwrought Kobold? Nothing in the feat description says you must be of the alignment of your great-great-granddragon.

Besides that, the list on pg. 103 lists Shadow Dragons as having Escape Artist as their bonus skill. Copper, White, and Li Lung have Hide.

Domains: Races of the Dragon. He has the following domains: Air, Dragon, Good, Luck, Protection, Storm, and Nobility. Favored Weapon: Heavy pick(Bite).

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 12:05 PM
Ah yes, the Greyhawk Wars, I remember them well! (Not really.) Tell served as a man-at-arms during the opening battles of the war. It was when he completed his service that he set out to be a hermit in the wilderness, leaving the still-raging war behind.
Hm.

Just realized I don't think I made it clear in my description of the Greyhawk Wars that even though it started as a semi-straightforward power grab by Iuz, there were a large number of opportunistic rebellions and similar things that went on. The whole thing spun quickly out of control. Every nation had different goals. The extreme number of diverging goals made it a relatively short-lived conflict because people realized they had no idea what was going on. So when thinking about what the Greyhawk Wars were "about" the answer is "Everything."

Also, they were called the Greyhawk Wars simply because the final peace treaties were signed in the City of Greyhawk. (The setting also gets its name from the city. Near as I can tell, the Greyhawk Wars weren't part of the setting as originally developed by Gygax, instead resulting from timeline advances by TSR. Could be wrong about that last part, though.)


Is she/he old? Been in the area long? A druid who was around for the various Temple battles could really help my unnature studies....
Yeah. Jaroo Ashstaff oversees a Grove on the outskirts of Hommlet. He's pretty well known in town. A bit of a local leader type.

He's been in Hommlet since before the second rise of the Temple. So he might be a good source of information for folks wanting to research that.

Of course, even before then, he was associated with a group of druids operating out of the nearby Gnarley Woods, so he might even have some firsthand knowledge of the first rise as well.


Shadow Dragons: I'm fairly certain Dragonborn only extend 'chromatic' to mean 'Tiamat spawn'.
Well, that's the definition of Chromatic Dragon in a nutshell.


Since Shadow, Deep, any of the chinese dragons, or even the plane-based dragons aren't Tiamat's kids then I doubt Dragonborn's mission to kill chromatics applies there.
Yeah. That's where I was getting at with the Metallic/Chromatic thing being the most devisive bit. More so than Good Dragon/Evil Dragon.


Further, kobolds venerate all forms of dragonkind regardless of their connection to Tiamat.
Hm.

"The Ecology of the Kobold" from Dragon #332 outlines a creation story where Kurtulmak, god and creator of the kobolds, was born from one of Tiamat's eggs.

Of course, the article implies that this is a possible creation story. And I am sufficiently aware that kobolds have since lost any specific association with Tiamat in particular. Makes sense that a "Usually Evil" Race with a connection to dragons would have a thing for the Queen of Evil Dragons.


Why not be a Gold Dragonwrought Kobold? Nothing in the feat description says you must be of the alignment of your great-great-granddragon.
So they actually have info on Metallic Dragonwrought Kobolds? Wow.


Besides that, the list on pg. 103 lists Shadow Dragons as having Escape Artist as their bonus skill. Copper, White, and Li Lung have Hide.
Wow! I'm not used to non-metallic and non-chromatic dragons getting mentioned in general dragon material. I mean, I just expected all the other dragon types to get shafted again.

Suddenly, I'm impressed by the completeness of Races of the Dragon.


Domains: Races of the Dragon.
Hah! Did I call it or what?

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 12:20 PM
Races of the Dragon contains:
List
Amethyst, Battle, Black, Blue, Brass, Bronze, Brown, Chaos, Chiang Lung, Copper, Crystal, Deep, Emerald, Ethereal, Fang, Force, Gold, Green, Howling, Li Lung, Lung Wang, Oceanus, Pan Lung, Platnium*, Prismatic, Pyroclastic, Radiant, Red, Rust, Sand, Sapphire, Shadow, Shin Lung, Silver, Song, Styx, Tarterian, Ti'en Lung, Tun Mi Lung, Topaz, White, and Yu Lung.

*Restricted to Dragonborn characters only.

Also: Shadow Dragons are in Monsters of Faerun.

EDIT: I just looked up the creation story of kobolds in Races of the Dragon. It states that kobolds credit their creation to Io, because they were created along with dragonkind.

Another_Poet
2007-11-30, 12:43 PM
Tell was part of his local baron/governor/whatever's military. He was fighting for pay, and was paid by a guy fighting for local issues. He never had much connexion to the biger issues (he was like 15 at the time) and it sounds like almost no one did anyway, so... cool.

:)

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 12:50 PM
Races of the Dragon contains:
List
Amethyst, Battle, Black, Blue, Brass, Bronze, Brown, Chaos, Chiang Lung, Copper, Crystal, Deep, Emerald, Ethereal, Fang, Force, Gold, Green, Howling, Li Lung, Lung Wang, Oceanus, Pan Lung, Platnium*, Prismatic, Pyroclastic, Radiant, Red, Rust, Sand, Sapphire, Shadow, Shin Lung, Silver, Song, Styx, Tarterian, Ti'en Lung, Tun Mi Lung, Topaz, White, and Yu Lung.

*Restricted to Dragonborn characters only.
Sweet! :smallbiggrin:


Also: Shadow Dragons are in Monsters of Faerun.
Okay. Good to know.


EDIT: I just looked up the creation story of kobolds in Races of the Dragon. It states that kobolds credit their creation to Io, because they were created along with dragonkind.
Doesn't really contradict much in the sense that creation stories are supposed to disagree. :smallbiggrin:

Oh, it just occurs to me that the Greyhawk setting has a dragon type known as the... Greyhawk Dragon. If memory serves, the Greyhawk Dragon became setting-neutral under the name of Steel Dragon. Dragon magazine updated the Greyhawk Dragon to 3rd edition about a year ago.

How's that for another dragon option, Tarinth? :smalltongue:

Tarinth
2007-11-30, 02:36 PM
OK, just tell me when any adventure mod or novel or short story or anything other than a rule technicality involved a good draconic kobold. If I'm only on the kill list of Bahamut as a chromatic, then I will be some other type of evil dragon. Period. I already changed my alignment and my type, so that should be good enough.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 02:41 PM
..Dragonwrought makes you Dragon-type anyway.

Good Kobold: Deekin Scalesinger. Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Urdentide; Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark; Neverwinter Nights 2. Alignment: Neutral Good.

Tarinth
2007-11-30, 02:45 PM
I don't mean a good aligned kobold, I mean a kobold of metalic color.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 02:52 PM
I'm fairly certain there are metallic kobolds in Eberron. After all, Eberron has everything.

If you refuse to be metallic, then what about a Battle Dragon? Chaos Dragon? Styx Dragon? Oceanus? Prismatic? Force? Topaz? Fang? Amethyst? The list goes on.

Tarinth
2007-11-30, 02:55 PM
Why do you care so much? Just let me be.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 03:07 PM
Because Dragonborn requires you to kill chromatics. I'd really rather not have to deal with killing a party member in the first half of the game.

EDIT: Screw it, I'll just make another character. I'll look and see what the party is missing.

Tarinth
2007-11-30, 03:09 PM
Yesm, but there are only five chromatics, and deep dragons and shadow dragons aren't part of that list.

EDIT: But you don't need to make a new character. Please don't drop a character you like just because of this.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 03:16 PM
Tarinth: You can go ahead and go with whatever dragon you wanted to do the first time.

Shhalahr: I'm gonna make a Dragon Shaman. Probably a human.

I'd also like to talk to you about getting a non-chromatic/metallic dragon on the dragon shaman list. Namely, I wanna use Styx Dragon.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 03:20 PM
Because Dragonborn requires you to kill chromatics. I'd really rather not have to deal with killing a party member in the first half of the game.
That shouldn't be a problem as

1.) Shadow Dragon, though Evil, is not Chromatic.

2.) Even if it were, he wouldn't be a chromatic dragon. He would have the Dragon creature type. He would have a chromatic heritage, but he would not be an actual chromatic dragon. He would be a Kobold.

Question: Does this, uh, requirement extend to, say, a Red Dragon that's foresworn worship of Tiamat, has converted to Lawful Good, and actually worships Bahamut?

If not, that means the rule has exceptions. Naturally, the scenario above is a huge exception. But all that means is we have to decide how big an exception has to be to be worthwhile.

EDIT: Oy, Simus...


I'd also like to talk to you about getting a non-chromatic/metallic dragon on the dragon shaman list. Namely, I wanna use Styx Dragon.
I don't believe I have the source for that one, either.

From the name, I assume it's a planar dragon linked to the River Styx. Well, the only planar dragons I have source material on are the ones from Dragon magazine. And to the extend of my knowledge, the planar dragons were introduced in 3e. In short: I know even less about Styx Dragons than I do about Shadow Dragons. So I have know idea what woiuld be appropriate for a Dragon Shaman with such an affiliation.

And I don't even want to know what's gonna happen when a Planar Dragon-affiliated character stands next to Mr. I'm-So-Into-Planar-Balance-I-Have-Issues-With-Summon-Monster-I up there. (No offense intended, Skja.)

In any case, the above debacle prods me to want access to the whole kit and kaboodle on anything before I approve anything. (As much as getting "the whole kit and kaboodle" may break board rules... ) Even if Mr. Planar Balance is okay with things, I don't want any surprises along the lines of, "Oh, Styx dragons believe X, so naturally so do Styx Dragon Shamans."

In any case, I figure I should import from the Cave of Water thread my list of kits and kaboodles:
D&D Books I Own
WotC Books
Arms and Equipment Guide
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Character Builder's Handbook
Complete Adventurer
Complete Arcane
Complete Divine
Complete Mage
Complete Psionic
Complete Scoundrel
Complete Warrior
Deities and Demigods
Dragon Magic
Dungeon Master's Guide
Dungeon Master's Guide II
Expanded Psionics Handbook
Hero Builder's Guidebook
Magic of Incarnum
Manual of the Planes
Monster Manual
Monster Manual III
Monster Manual IV
Player's Handbook
Player's Handbook II
Savage Species
The Stronghold Builder's Guidebook
Tome and Blood
Tome of Battle: Book of the Nine Swords
Tome of Magic

Periodicals
Dragon Magazine #248, 250, 252—359

Third Party Products
Fields of Blood: The Book of War (Eden Studios)
Feats (AEG)
The Book of Unusual Treasures (Bad Axe)
As before, the Third Party Products are all sufficiently questionable as to require modification in almost all cases. As such, anything from those sources must be brought up with me.

Also, sources of non-core and non-SRD material should be explicitly noted in the Other Notes section of your character sheet.

Another_Poet
2007-11-30, 03:21 PM
I thought him being a Deep Dragon made him non-chromatic and solved the problem? I'm so confused.
:(

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 03:40 PM
I'd rather just change it over to a dwarf who worships Boccob. Then it doesn't matter whether he's a nine-headed chaotic evil hydra. :smallwink:

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to say that my sheet is updated.

EDIT#2: I thought about it, and Boccob is too blah. Zagyg is where it's at though. I follow the Mad Hatter! :smallbiggrin:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 03:49 PM
I'd rather just change it over to a dwarf who worships Boccob. Then it doesn't matter whether he's a nine-headed chaotic evil hydra. :smallwink:
It'll probably matter to the Lawful Good Knight.

BTW: Dragon has a Faiths article on Boccob. If you feel you need any tidbits, I can send them your way.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 03:54 PM
Didn't we get some crafting XP for scrolls and things?

EDIT: And while I'm thinking of it, can I use Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer to retain cast spells? It says Wizard Only despite being on the Spell Domain's list..

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 04:10 PM
Didn't we get some crafting XP for scrolls and things?
I believe I threw out an extra 200 for that.


EDIT: And while I'm thinking of it, can I use Rary's Mnemonic Enhancer to retain cast spells? It says Wizard Only despite being on the Spell Domain's list..
Once again, gotta confirm where this deity/domain pairing is coming from. Spell Compendium?

Even after that, none of my books have Anyspell in them.

Also will need to know any changes that may have been made between the Player's Guide to Faerûn version (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_Spelldomain&alpha=S) and the current version.

As to the actual question: "Wizard Only" refers to the fact that unlike other Wizard Spells, mnemonic enhancer is not also on the Sorcerer spell list. Naturally, if it gets added to any other spell lists, it must be castable by members of the class that have that list.

Entertainer13
2007-11-30, 04:17 PM
Lor can't detect evil, so as long the Kobold doesn't do anything evil in front of me, he's good.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 04:26 PM
Once again, gotta confirm where this deity/domain pairing is coming from. Spell Compendium?

Even after that, none of my books have Anyspell in them.

Anyspell kinda sucks anyway. I can prepare a wizard spell of 2nd level or lower from a scroll or spellbook in the same domain slot as Anyspell(3rd).

The deity is Zagyg(Boccob's insane archmage demi-god) from Worlds of Greyhawk.

The domain is the same as the one in the glossary page.

Anyspell, Greater does the same thing as Anyspell, just up to 5th level.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 04:40 PM
Anyspell kinda sucks anyway. I can prepare a wizard spell of 2nd level or lower from a scroll or spellbook in the same domain slot as Anyspell(3rd).
So Anyspell is really more like a special class ability than a true spell itself? A sort of free-floating domain slot?


The deity is Zagyg(Boccob's insane archmage demi-god) from Worlds of Greyhawk.
I'm having trouble finding any 3e product called Worlds of Greyhawk.

I know who Zagyg is. But I only see him listed with the Chaos, Knowledge, Madness, Magic, and Trickery domains. Now the Spell domain is certainly appropriate for Zagyg, but I just like to verify it with official sources wherever possible.

ZeroNumerous
2007-11-30, 04:42 PM
I got it from here (http://www.answers.com/topic/zagyg). Unfortunately, I'm not knowledgeable on Forgotten Realms, so I can't say one way or another..

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 04:51 PM
Well, that's just copy 'n' paste from Wikipedia.

Of the third edition sources listed, the only one I don't have is Dungeon #109. The ones I do have don't list Spell as an applicable domain. So the accuracy there really goes out the window.

But, as I said, it's an appropriate domain. So no worries about keeping it.

Another_Poet
2007-11-30, 07:15 PM
I foresee Tell stuffing mud in his ears to fall asleep many a night while the Knight and the two evil guys grumble, bicker and accuse.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-11-30, 09:25 PM
Two evil?

I see two Neutrals (including Tell), two Goods, and maybe one Evil if Tarinth is going back to Evil.

Or are you still gonna be Neutral, Tarinth?

Another_Poet
2007-11-30, 09:31 PM
O, sorry, I thought Zero was saying he's evil.

No evils? No worries!

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-01, 09:24 AM
Skja: I noticed Mediggo's sheet doesn't have a familiar listed. Of course, given the other classes, a familiar would fall behind in ability. But if you aren't going to take a familiar, were you considering at all any of the variant (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedSpecialist.html#evoker) or alternative class (See PH2, Complete Mage, et al.) features that replace the familiar in exchange?

Alternatively, given the existence of the Obtain Familiar feat, I usually do consider it a fair trade to give a bonus feat instead. As long as the feat is from the normal wizard bonus feat list or otherwise affects spellcasting (such as Spell Focus or Eschew Materials).

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-01, 08:25 PM
I'll take a look at the variant's tonight. I'll probably wind up taking Eschew Materials in the end. I hate the flavor of material components for spellcasting.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-02, 12:48 PM
Another_Poet: Just noticed you gave Tell Augment Summoning without the Spell Focus (conjuration) prerequisite.

Entertainer13: You seem to have an extra feat and no mention of the Mounted Combat bonus feat.

I want to post the IC thread tomorrow. But I think we'll be able to iron out the rest of the character sheet details before those become imporant. :smallwink:

The Kobold will need a name, though.

Another_Poet
2007-12-02, 02:38 PM
O shoot, I forgot it had a prereq. Well it hurts to lose beautiful, beautiful Spring Attack but it is worth it for the pluses to summoned critters. (Megiddo, glad you're okay with SNA, because now it's gonna get used a whole lot!)

Consider it switched:
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=30905http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=30905

Tarinth
2007-12-02, 08:35 PM
Well, I guess I'll be chromatic now that it's a non issue, but I've decided to stay LN. Anyway, you'll have to forgive my lack of internet finesse because i couldn't find a site listing the racial bonuses. Shhalahr, could you please remind me of the chromatic bonuses and i'll choose before we start. My name will be...um, gimmie a bit and I'll edit this later. Anywho, If you guys are ready to post this week, I believe I'm ready, except for my name and color, unless Shhalahr has any questions on my character sheet.

Edit: Name- Kajiki (Hawaii name of an oceanic fish)

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-02, 09:34 PM
Have to get it from Zero. I don't have the relevant book, and I haven't found it on the 'net.

Which chromatic color by the way?

Entertainer13
2007-12-02, 09:42 PM
Lawful Neutral is perfect as far as I'm concerned. That'll lead to you and I glaring once in awhile over meathods.

"You're too soft."

"You're barabric!"

Grrrr...

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-02, 10:08 PM
Okay, if anyone that hasn't already mentioned wants to grab onto one of the hooks or just say, "I'm with him" in reference to someone else I had, let me know.

Another_Poet
2007-12-02, 10:57 PM
Okay, if anyone that hasn't already mentioned wants to grab onto one of the hooks or just say, "I'm with him" in reference to someone else I had, let me know.

I would like it if we're all together before the opening scene. I won't throw a fit if we aren't, but I'd like it. Meg and I have reasons to be on our way there, would anyone else be interested in going with us rather than meeting for the first time in Hommlet?

ap

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-03, 12:40 AM
Megiddo is there to study the temple, because he is sufficiently arrogant to believe that the group that went there before couldn't possibly have done a complete job of sealing the breach, because he wasn't there.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-03, 07:27 AM
IC Thread is up.

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-03, 02:36 PM
Might need to do some changing to the OOC information. Lo'Koren is now Orthus. And he's a Cleric of Zagyg. :smallbiggrin:

Chromatic Information: Tell me which color and I'll PM you the details.

Tarinth
2007-12-03, 02:42 PM
Black please and thank you.


Also, are we pretending we know each other or are we all going to encounter each other? I'l happily pretend the former for convenience sake unless you guys want to play through the meeting.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-03, 02:46 PM
It looks like we are going to be meeting up for the first time, aside from those of us that are already together. I got PM'd a prologue, which was neat (I am totally going to steal that idea for my PbP games).

Tarinth
2007-12-03, 02:54 PM
A PM's Prologue?

OK, so the in character post referense to the spot check allows for another character to say it's them or what?

Another_Poet
2007-12-03, 03:15 PM
Well, Tell was just trying to Spot any details of the distant figure. Rolling a 9 I don't know that I'll see much, but that's up to the DM. If the distant figure is you I reckon you could try to Spot us too, and then hail us (or avoid us or attack us if you're that sort :smallbiggrin: )

edited to add: he means a prologue in your PM (private message) box. Should be a link at the top right corner of your screen by where it says "Welcome, Tarinth". I got one too; I think we all did.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-03, 04:17 PM
A PM's Prologue?
I tossed out a little in-character info regarding hooks to people that chose one. Wasn't much to go with if you didn't pick one (yet), so some of you didn't get one.

The, uh, "distant figure" refers to seeing the one or more of the other PCs on the road. It was just a comment from the prologues that did get sent out to bridge into the IC thread.

Tarinth
2007-12-03, 09:32 PM
Well, the only PM I got was the black dragon info from Zero. Shhalahr, could you please send me another because i have no idea where my character is in the game world at this point and didn't want to make stuff up in case you dissaproved.

I guess I would like to be journeying to the temple ruins for salvage, and could meet the others on the road. I could be looking for some people to tag along with in case of danger. After all, a lone kobold is just monster bait without some friends to save his scaley bottom. Sound good Boss?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-03, 09:34 PM
As the In-character thread says, five strangers meet on the road outside Hommlet. You can safely assume you're somewhere along that road within sight of one or more of the other PCs. You might even be that figure Tell is looking at.

C'mon, now, people. Let's not be shy. This is your chance to introduce your characters to the world. You pretty much have free reign. This holds even if you didn't get a prologue.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-05, 04:29 AM
I finished Megiddo's equipment. I also took your suggestion about replacing my familiar with Eschew Materials. If you could it a look over so that I can clean up the 'expended' stuff that I bought, I would appreciate it.

Also, with your permission, I'd like to take Halfling instead of Gnome as a bonus language.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-05, 08:04 AM
Okay, looking good.

But unless I'm much mistaken, you have a 32 point rather than 36 point build on the ability scores. You also appear to be short a power point (7 from level + 18 from high ability score + 2 from Psionic Talent = 27 total)

Zero: It looks like you have a 38 point build.

Tarinth: I'm sure we had 36 when we worked on Kajiki, but I'm coming up with 32 when I double check. I don't even recall whether you bumped Int or Dex at 4th level, but they both come out at 32.

Entertainer13: I'm getting 38 points with Lor, too. And you haven't done anything about the feats that I mentioned earlier.

Tarinth
2007-12-05, 02:00 PM
Dtr14=6points; Dex16=10points; COn12=4points; Int16=10points; Wis10=2points; Cha12=4points. 6+10+4+10+2+4=36 points. Then I got -4Str and -2Con. I then put one point into Dex. OMGs, I forgot to put my +2 racial into Dex, which now rocks like never before.:smallbiggrin:
Thanks for double checking Boss.

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-05, 03:12 PM
Oops, forgot to include the -2 CHA penalty from Dwarf.

Entertainer13
2007-12-05, 03:45 PM
Okay, looking good.

But unless I'm much mistaken, you have a 32 point rather than 36 point build on the ability scores. You also appear to be short a power point (7 from level + 18 from high ability score + 2 from Psionic Talent = 27 total)

Zero: It looks like you have a 38 point build.

Tarinth: I'm sure we had 36 when we worked on Kajiki, but I'm coming up with 32 when I double check. I don't even recall whether you bumped Int or Dex at 4th level, but they both come out at 32.

Entertainer13: I'm getting 38 points with Lor, too. And you haven't done anything about the feats that I mentioned earlier.

Is this taking into account my gauntlets of ogre strength? I'm counting 35 every time. Did I use the wrong points? And what about feats, I don't remember you mentioning anything. I'm going to go back and check.

EDIT
I'm still counting 35 (give me the point build formula. Something's wrong), and let's count - We're level six. Therefore, we got three feats. I'm human, that's four, and I get a bonus feat at level 5, so I have my five feats. I'll go add mounted combat.

Is this the formula?

8 -- 0
9 -- 1
10 -- 2
11 -- 3
12 -- 4
13 -- 5
14 -- 6
15 -- 8
16 --10
17 -- 13
18 -- 16

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-05, 05:17 PM
Is this taking into account my gauntlets of ogre strength?
You have gauntlets listed on your character sheet, but not gauntlets of ogre strength.

It's also a good idea to place buffs from items in the "Temporary Score" slot of the sheet to help call attention to the fact it's from an item.

Uh, I'm thinking there's a wealth issue with the gauntlets, too.

{table="width=60%"]ghost touch longsword +1 |
8,315 gp

full plate +1|
2,650 gp

heavy shield +1|
1,170 gp

masterwork morningstar|
170 gp

gauntlets of ogre strength|
4,000 gp

Subtotal:|
16,305[/table]

That's clearly over the limit of 13,000 gp.


I'm counting 35 every time. Did I use the wrong points?
It's a 36 point build. That'd be a point shy.


And what about feats, I don't remember you mentioning anything. I'm going to go back and check.
I mentioned it earlier in the thread.


Therefore, we got three feats. I'm human, that's four, and I get a bonus feat at level 5, so I have my five feats.
Ah, I was blind! Didn't see the bonus feat at level five in the class description.

BTW, Skja—loved that "Follower of Boccob, not that he cares" bit. :smallbiggrin:

Entertainer13
2007-12-05, 06:00 PM
You have gauntlets listed on your character sheet, but not gauntlets of ogre strength.

It's also a good idea to place buffs from items in the "Temporary Score" slot of the sheet to help call attention to the fact it's from an item.

Uh, I'm thinking there's a wealth issue with the gauntlets, too.

{table="width=60%"]ghost touch longsword +1 |
8,315 gp

full plate +1|
2,650 gp

heavy shield +1|
1,170 gp

masterwork morningstar|
170 gp

gauntlets of ogre strength|
4,000 gp

Subtotal:|
16,305[/table]

That's clearly over the limit of 13,000 gp.


It's a 36 point build. That'd be a point shy.


I mentioned it earlier in the thread.


Ah, I was blind! Didn't see the bonus feat at level five in the class description.

BTW, Skja—loved that "Follower of Boccob, not that he cares" bit. :smallbiggrin:

Guess I'm going to have to re-do some math, because I did NOT pay that much for the sword the first time. I'm keeping the gauntlets. I'll downgrade the weaponry.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-05, 06:07 PM
Guess I'm going to have to re-do some math, because I did NOT pay that much for the sword the first time.
Did you remember that you have to pay for a +1 enhancement bonus before you can get special properties? (I don't think that +1 was accounted for in your attack section.)

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-05, 10:19 PM
Skja: Megiddo's missing the synergy bonuses on his skills:
+2 Autohypnosis for >=5 ranks in Concentration
+2 Knowledge (psionics) for >=5 ranks Autohypnosis
+2 Psicraft for >=5 ranks in Knowledge (psionics)
+2 Spellcraft for >=5 ranks in Knowledge (arcana)
Also might not hurt to note the conditional synergy of +2 to Survival on other Planes somewhre. The remaining synergies for which you qualify (yes, there are more! :smalleek:) only apply to trained only skills in which you have no ranks.

Man, every skill you have provides synergy, you know?

Entertainer13
2007-12-05, 10:25 PM
Okay, I'm still not sure how you get 8,000.

315 - MW Longsword
2000 - +1 bonus
2000 - Ghost Touch is a +1 bonus
---
4315

Do you just worry about all the +1's total, and that's where I went wrong? If that's so, I'm taking off the ghost touch, making it a 2,315 sword and forcing me to play around with my money again.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-05, 10:55 PM
Do you just worry about all the +1's total, and that's where I went wrong?
Right. You add the equivalent bonus to the actual bonus. A ghost touch sword +1 is the equivalent of a sword +2 in price.

Entertainer13
2007-12-06, 12:58 AM
Right. You add the equivalent bonus to the actual bonus. A ghost touch sword +1 is the equivalent of a sword +2 in price.

Okay, then, I have an extra 2,000 to play with from my original math, and no longer have a ghost touch weapon. Yikes!

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-06, 01:00 AM
Huh, I'm usually pretty good about getting my synergy bonuses in there.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-06, 08:00 AM
Now Tell's turn:

You've got your Nature Sense bonus to Knowledge (nature), but not the Synergy from Survival (or vice versa). (Point is, should have a +4 instead of +2.)

Other synergy bonus is conditional: Survival in above ground natural environments.

Zero: I think I forgot to apply the dwarf score modifiers period when I double checked the scores. And the apparent thought of forgetting the Charisma penalty may have come about if you forgot the 4th level increase when double checking your own score.

Sorry for the confusion.

And while I'm checking synergies, don't forget +2 to Turn Undead from >=5 ranks Knowledge (religion).

Tarinth: That +2 "Misc modifier" for Hide: do you know what that's from? Your size modifier should be +8 (as a Tiny creature thanks to Slight Build).

Entertainer13: Lor seems to be 7 points short on skills. (2+1 (Human) * 9 (level + 3) = 27. I'm counting only 20 points spent. (BTW, you've left the "Cross-class" box checked by Climb and Jump, throwing the sheet's calculated total off.)

Tarinth
2007-12-06, 10:15 AM
The plus two to hide is from my black draconic ancestory. I'll make it plus 10 now. Plus Ten, I just like to say that. Plus ten. Yeah, it still sounds good. Now my hide is 18:smallbiggrin:

Another_Poet
2007-12-06, 10:26 AM
Right. You add the equivalent bonus to the actual bonus. A ghost touch sword +1 is the equivalent of a sword +2 in price.

Aargh, Noooooo! I read this last night and thought, "Ha! DM's wrong. Better look it up and link to it in the SRD for him." Well I looked it up... and you are right... NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

No way I'm giving up the bane weapon, which I priced at 4,000 instead of 8,000. So I dropped the +1 on the bow (2,000), the +1 on the armour (1,000) and the +1 on my poor li'l buckler (1,000) to make things right. I thought I was so clever with that buckler--cheaper than a Ring of Protec and no ever gives out enchanted bucklers! Then I added mwk to my bow, and took mwk off of my handaxe (which was mostly just flavour to start with) and the total value of my gear should still be exactly what it was before.

And may I just take a moment to say...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-06, 05:00 PM
No way I'm giving up the bane weapon, which I priced at 4,000 instead of 8,000.
Hm. I thought I gave the prices on your equipment a once-over earlier. And I didn't catch that?

And just a thought as to my earlier comments about Iuz's threat level. It just hit me that all my Living Greyhawk experience was set after the Flight of Fiends. As that was a major blow to his power, that might have contributed to Iuz's apparent lack of ubiquity outside of the "Iuz Border States" region in my experience.

Eh, let's just say I haven't quite figured out just how bad Iuz is in practical terms yet.

Another_Poet
2007-12-06, 05:13 PM
Hm. I thought I gave the prices on your equipment a once-over earlier. And I didn't catch that?


Yeah, +1 enchantments cost 2,000 so I had 2000 + 2000 = 4000. But +2 enchantments cost 8000, right? And two +1's is a +2? So then it is 8000....


What worries me is I made the same mistake in Gralamin's campaign, and was impressed that I held up so well in melee (no wonder!) so I hope I'm not too fragile now that i've given back what I "stole" :)

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-06, 05:44 PM
Yeah, +1 enchantments cost 2,000 so I had 2000 + 2000 = 4000. But +2 enchantments cost 8000, right? And two +1's is a +2? So then it is 8000....
Right.


What worries me is I made the same mistake in Gralamin's campaign, and was impressed that I held up so well in melee (no wonder!) so I hope I'm not too fragile now that i've given back what I "stole" :)
Don't worry. You've got a two-level head start from the published recommendation. :smallcool:

Another_Poet
2007-12-06, 06:43 PM
Right.


Don't worry. You've got a two-level head start from the published recommendation. :smallcool:

True, I forgot about that. Awesome!

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-07, 12:54 AM
Wanted to check a few things before I post my next statement (loving the RP, btw). Does Greyhawk use the cosmology from the DMG? Is it acceptable for my character to have traveled on the other planes before (most likely while learning magic from his mentor)?

Another_Poet
2007-12-07, 12:59 AM
Wanted to check a few things before I post my next statement (loving the RP, btw). Does Greyhawk use the cosmology from the DMG? Is it acceptable for my character to have traveled on the other planes before (most likely while learning magic from his mentor)?

Can't answer for Shhalahr, but I personally urge you to post first and amend later. ('Cuz there haven't been any posts all night and I'd like to see it move along even more.)

:)

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-07, 01:04 AM
alright, I'll do a quick google search, and if I find the answer to the first question is yes, then I'll assume the answer to the second is yes. and amend later if necessary.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-07, 07:33 AM
Yes. Everything in Core D&D is based off of the Greyhawk standard. So if there's a default answer to a question in Core, that asnwer applies to Greyhawk.

Heck, even all those named spells in the PHB are named after Greyhawk wizards: Melf, Mordenkainen, Bigby, Otto, Tasha, Nystul, etc. are all from Greyhawk. (Most of said wizards are or once were members of the famed Circle of Eight, a group devoted to maintaining the balance of power in the Flanaaes.)

As to question #2, I suppose we could do that.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-09, 11:07 AM
Was gonna respond to the issue of the priestly title in the IC thread, but that got a little overlong, so I'd rather move that discussion here.

The truth is, I can find no information on appropriate titles of address, not even in Living Greyhawk materials, where it would be most useful.

Though I think she usually has more stress on the "Defender of the Woodlands" side of thing, Ehlonna does have a Fertility aspect, so maternal references may be appropriate in certain circumstances.

Still "Holy Mother" doesn't sound quite right to me. I think it may just have certain personal connotations, though.

I think we can stick with it for the time being. I'll let you know if I come across any official word on the subject.

(Gotta run now. I'll get back to the IC thread later today.)

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-09, 11:25 AM
Well.. I would think Earth Mother would be appropriate.

Entertainer13
2007-12-09, 12:32 PM
Your Mom's an Earth Moth... er, never mind.


Shalar, are you sure about those skill points? I think my math might just suck, because I just came up with yet ANOTHER different total. Hm... I'll trust you, since you can do Calculus, whereas I was kicked out of pre-Calc back in the day...

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-09, 01:43 PM
Well.. I would think Earth Mother would be appropriate.
That seems to me to be a bit more of a Beory thing. But even then it might be blasphemous as "Oerth Mother" is one of Beory's official titles.

Even as a nature goddess, Ehlonna is pretty focused on forests and woodlands rather than nature as a whole.


Shalar, are you sure about those skill points? I think my math might just suck, because I just came up with yet ANOTHER different total. Hm... I'll trust you, since you can do Calculus, whereas I was kicked out of pre-Calc back in the day...
A Human Knight has 2 + Int modifier + 1 skill points per level. This number is quadrupled at 1st.

So you have (2 + 0 + 1) * 4 = 12 skill points at first level and (2 + 0 + 1) * 5 = 15 skill points over the next five levels. That's 12 + 15 = 27 total skill points.

Now, you didn't spend any points on cross-class skills, so each rank only costs one point.
3 ranks Climb
2 ranks Handle Animal
7 ranks Intimidate
2 ranks Jump
2 ranks Knowledge (nobility and royalty)
4 ranks Ride

3 + 2 + 7 + 2 + 2 + 4 = (3 + 7) + (2 + 2 + 2 + 4) = 10 + 10 = 20

You have 27 skill points but only spent 20 of them. That means you have 7 unspent skill points.

(On a side note, if you started at 1st level with an Int of 9 in 3.0 and boosted your Int at 4th level, you would have only 20 skill points. Since Ability Boosts come before skill points in 3.5, starting with an Int of 9 would give you 21 points instead. And you started with 10 and spent the boost on Strength instead, right?)

Another_Poet
2007-12-09, 05:31 PM
There's no standard title listed in the rulebooks? Sweet!

I hereby make up one:

Protectress.

Whether or not Ehlonna (sp?) is an earth mother, She is definitely a protector of forests; and Her priests certainly protect the wild woods where they worship. So I like the sound of it.

I'll edit the IC post.

BTW, I agree with what was said above. What awesome RP--it's really a refreshing way to start a campaign!

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-09, 05:42 PM
There's no standard title listed in the rulebooks? Sweet!

I hereby make up one:

Protectress.
Me Like!

Yeah, I asked about it in the Gaming thread. So far the only lead we have on official titles is some 2e adventures that listed all the titles for members of Vecna's church. No help there.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-10, 02:16 AM
I corrected my Power Points, as my intelligence is higher than it was when I calculated them before. I now have a healthy 37 PP/day.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-10, 08:01 AM
Okay, I said you should have 27 earlier, and I realize I made a mistake there, but I don't think it's 37...
3rd level psion: 11 points
Intelligence 23 plus Practiced Manifester (+3 levels): 18 points
Psionic Talent: 2 points

11 + 18 + 2 = 31

Am I missing anything?

Another_Poet
2007-12-11, 04:46 PM
Hey Shhalahr,

I realised I had never added the bonus skill points to Tell for being human. I adjusted my char sheet accordingly. (Hehe, sometimes remembering a forgotten rule goes in yoru favour!)

Anyway my Int is +2 and my skill points are:

16 = (2+2)*4 L1 ftr
04 = 2+2 L2 ftr
24 = (2+4)*4 for 4 levels of druid
04 = bonus as 1st level human
05 = 5*1 for 5 more levels as human

Total: 53 skill points, which is what you'll find on my sheet. :D

Just thought I should let you know why I suddenly have ranks in Concentration.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-11, 07:27 PM
Thanks for the Heads-up, Poet.

Got a final project to work on tonight, a job interview to prepare for tomorrow, and the interview and a children's Christmas event in which my almost-2-year-old nephew is participating after that... So there might be a slight hold up in things 'till Friday.

Tarinth—I was holding off on resolving the Gather Info until you actually got into the inn. And it'll require some more in-game time to dig up quality information. No check was really necessary to find Xaod as it was.

Sorry to keep ya hanging. But I can confirm that someone will tell you the temple proper is to the northeast about a two day walk, the exact time depending on whether you're willing to take the more dangerous shortcut through the Gnarley Forest. Just'll be a while before I get you a nice, flavorful in-character version of that.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-11, 11:02 PM
I'll double check the PP again tonight.

Edit- you're right, it should be 31. I don't know where I got 37 from.

Tarinth
2007-12-11, 11:30 PM
Yeah, just wanted to remind you because I posted it a while ago. Anywho, the Gnarley Forest seems like a nice place to picnic.:smalltongue:

Entertainer13
2007-12-13, 12:59 PM
"It is probably for the best. The care and feeding of the metaphysical balance of the universe has not contributed much to my social standing. It would be a harder road to walk for one of your kind, who bears the weight of society's biases and prejudices."

Nice!!!!!!!!

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-15, 12:54 PM
Been kinda trying to decide whether or not I want to say anything but it's too good not to mention:

I think it's just hilarious the way Orthus and Megiddo don't get along considering that Zagyg is about the only deity Boccob is remotely close to. :smallbiggrin:

But when you can have brutal wars between followers of the same deity—even Good ones—I guess a kick to the backside between deity friends is pretty tame.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-15, 09:40 PM
Megiddo is only nominally a follower of Boccob anyway. I am enjoying the RP. Hopefully it doesn't split us up into two parties.

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-16, 12:49 AM
The only reason Orthus doesn't get along is because he believes that Megiddo believes his opinion is better than everyone elses.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-17, 09:24 AM
If any of you guys are gonna be in the midwestern United States this spring, we're already planning a meetup.

Another_Poet
2007-12-17, 10:15 AM
If any of you guys are gonna be in the midwestern United States this spring, we're already planning a meetup.

I'm not sure what all's involved--looked through the thread you linked and looks like a picnic/gaming session sometime this spring? Sounds good to me...

I live in the Twin Cities and could definitely make it to LaCrosse. I saw someone else who said he/she was in St Paul, and could give him/her a ride.

Would this be a one-day affair?

And, as a late 20something, would I be an old fogey?

Interested--tell me more.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-17, 10:46 AM
Would this be a one-day affair?
Pretty much. Though I suppose some folks hang out and find other things to do during the rest of the weekend now and then.

The ride I got to the one I attended earlier only stayed the day, though, so I didn't have much choice. If I didn't get that ride, though, I would have taken a train up the night before and stayed until the morning after. (But then, that decision was based on the train schedule, so I still didn't have much input. :smalltongue:)


And, as a late 20something, would I be an old fogey?
Not at all. We got Supagoof, Trog, and Thes Hunter to beat ya there. :smalltongue:

Seriously, though, most of the folks that attend these meetups are in their 20s. There's only one major exception I can think of in regards to the Midwest meetups, and he only got to attend the last two because they were within walking distance of his home and his parents decided the location was sufficiently public to be safe. Needless to say, he won't be showing up to this one, as its definitely not within walking distance for him.


Interested--tell me more.
Thus far there's not much more to share than what I've mentioned in the main thread. Right now, I just want to find out what people think. Hopefully I'll get enough input to reserve a shelter right away in January.

Only thing I'm really holding out on at the moment is specific shelter locations. But if you aren't familiar with the area, that would just confuse things. I'd prefer some consensus on bluff, river, or marsh general locations before I get into that.

Another_Poet
2007-12-17, 11:02 AM
Only thing I'm really holding out on at the moment is specific shelter locations. But if you aren't familiar with the area, that would just confuse things. I'd prefer some consensus on bluff, river, or marsh general locations before I get into that.

Bluff!

My parents live only an hour or so from La Crosse, so I would probably stay with them that night. But if I am giving someone a ride from St Paul I'd hasve to work that out with them.

Regarding directions, if the shelters are hard to find we could always meet up somewhere nearby first and then head over together.

ap

Tarinth
2007-12-17, 04:26 PM
Well, I will probably be able to come since i live in LaCrosse. We'll see how everything is going once plans get settled and I know what my job is and where I am living. I might be in Rochester with a new job by then.

Another_Poet
2007-12-18, 07:22 PM
Let's not all post at once... we don't want the IC thread to have too many users and jam up.

[/sarcasm]

:smallsmile:

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-18, 07:38 PM
Let's not all post at once... we don't want the IC thread to have too many users and jam up.

[/sarcasm]
I'd consider moving on with what Tell, Megiddo, and Kujiki are up to, but given that you're going for a "cue the sun" moment, that would put the Orthus and Lor subplot too far out of synch for my sanity. :smallwink:

In any case, Entertainer13 is having finals right now, so I'm willing to let things slide for a moment. Tomorrow's supposed to be his last one, though, so after that, he's out of excuses. :smalltongue:

Another_Poet
2007-12-18, 08:17 PM
I'd consider moving on with what Tell, Megiddo, and Kujiki are up to, but given that you're going for a "cue the sun" moment, that would put the Orthus and Lor subplot too far out of synch for my sanity. :smallwink:

In any case, Entertainer13 is having finals right now, so I'm willing to let things slide for a moment. Tomorrow's supposed to be his last one, though, so after that, he's out of excuses. :smalltongue:

Well, if you're saying no priestesses are chasing him out of the temple grounds and no thieves are eyeing him up for a good mugging, then I'll put Tell to bed so we can move on.

Especially if the drunk paladin won't talk till morning.

ap

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-18, 09:13 PM
The Irony: The follower of Zagyg is afraid the follower of Heironous would do something unsavory. :smallbiggrin:

Another_Poet
2007-12-19, 12:43 AM
Next day! Next day! Next day!


ap

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-19, 12:30 PM
Next day! Next day! Next day!

QFT

quoted for truth

Another_Poet
2007-12-20, 03:00 PM
Wow, I always forget how much the holidays mess things up.

Work is crazy, weekends are full of things that need doing, webcomics slow to a crawl (it was what, 2 weeks for a new Erfworld?) and all my online campaigns are lagging like this. :(

Of course, I do hope folks are having a good time--shopping, spending time with relatives, all that good stuff. Even so, if anyone wants to post... even short, substandard posts... I wouldn't mind. :P

ZeroNumerous
2007-12-20, 03:52 PM
The entire party is in some sort of strange sleep-limbo. What would we post?

Tarinth
2007-12-20, 06:03 PM
Tell, perhaps you did not notice that Shhalahr gave you a temple lady to talk to. Anyway, I agree, we have been pokey and Lor and Orthus have to wait for the Slayer, but this is a crazy time of year. If I am slow, Shhalahr can certainly take control of me. Unfortunately i don't have much access to a computer now that school is out, but i'll try to post almost every day.

Skjaldbakka
2007-12-20, 07:29 PM
Do elves do the trance thing in Greyhawk, or do they sleep like normal people?

Another_Poet
2007-12-20, 08:36 PM
Tell, perhaps you did not notice that Shhalahr gave you a temple lady to talk to.

Wha wha what? If that was posted I don't see it... last interaction with the temple lady I saw was before we went to the inn for dinner. Though I'm half expecting her to wake me up in the morning wondering why I am on her lawn. We'll see, I guess.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-20, 09:55 PM
Do elves do the trance thing in Greyhawk, or do they sleep like normal people?
Standard elf stuff. So, yeah "trance."

If you want Megiddo to get snooty about it though, I can see if I can dig out a copy of the 2e Complete Book of Elves and find out the "actual" word to use instead of "trance".

...I think it's also been referred to as "Reverie".

Tarinth
2007-12-21, 03:46 PM
Yeah Tell, it's post 129 on the in character thread. Some temple lady is saying they could have helped you if you needed boarding. She doen't know you prefer it that way.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-12-21, 05:53 PM
What would we post?
Well, I am giving you a chance to stand up Xaod. :smallwink:

Seriously though, if you want to explore the town a bit before your appointment, now's your chance. Be a bit proactive. No skin off my nose; Hommlet's fleshed out to the extreme in the module itself. 'Twould be a shame to let that go to waste.

Another_Poet
2007-12-22, 10:53 PM
Yeah Tell, it's post 129 on the in character thread. Some temple lady is saying they could have helped you if you needed boarding. She doen't know you prefer it that way.

Wow, thank you for pointing this out! I must have stopped reading at the divider line thingy--thought the rest was Shhalahr's sig and didn't even catch that.

Awesome, thanks!

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-02, 04:38 PM
In case you aren't following the thread: There have been some complications regarding the La Crosse meetup, and I am seeking input. Please respond in that thread if you have any.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-03, 11:21 PM
My original post was much more mean-spirited. Up until now, Orthus was just callin' 'em as he saw 'em.

Another_Poet
2008-01-04, 04:09 PM
So do you guys think there are any NPC's in this town who aren't jerks?

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-05, 12:35 PM
So do you guys think there are any NPC's in this town who aren't jerks?
Hey, Xaod at least was provoked. Not to say that doesn't mean he can't be a jerk. After all, he's got the temper of an early sixties Spider-Man.

Another_Poet
2008-01-05, 12:45 PM
And this Ashstaff fellow is almost as rude as my character. :smalltongue:

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-05, 02:27 PM
Hey, Xaod at least was provoked.

I disagree. Orthus wasn't attempting to provoke Xaod at all, he was just making observations. But when a dwarf calls you a drunk, then you know you have a problem.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-05, 04:19 PM
I disagree. Orthus wasn't attempting to provoke Xaod at all, he was just making observations. But when a dwarf calls you a drunk, then you know you have a problem.
I think

Person1: "Ah, thanks for meeting me to discuss matters of grave importance to the realm"
Person2: "You're a nasty drunk!"

is bound to make just about anyone angry regardless of the truth value of either statement.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-05, 05:54 PM
I think

Person1: "Ah, thanks for meeting me to discuss matters of grave importance to the realm"
Person2: "You're a nasty drunk!"

He never said nasty, and he wasn't malicious about it. Now I'd understand if he had said "You drunk bastard" versus "Were you in trouble before you started drinking or after?"

The only time Orthus became malicious was when Xaod threatened him physically. And even then he was willing to put things aside and continue onward.

Xaod's a jerk. :smallamused:

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-05, 07:53 PM
He never said nasty, and he wasn't malicious about it.
But it's easy to hear that as a tacit assumption one way or the other. Especially when you're expecting a completely different topic. I was sort of paraphrasing the idea Xaod's point of view here.

Orthus may do well to remember that there is a time and a place for tact. (But where'd the fun be in that? :smallwink:)

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-05, 09:05 PM
I'd think that would be as tactful as one can be when addressing too much drinking. Atleast, for a dwarf.

Xaod assumed, got angry, and then pissy. He wasn't provoked, he's just a jerk.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-05, 10:31 PM
I'd think that would be as tactful as one can be when addressing too much drinking. Atleast, for a dwarf.
Well, the bigger point being: Why address at all? The context was rather inappropriate, really. He was meeting Orthus and Lor to discuss the doings of the Old One and perhaps other ominous goings on. Is that really a good time to try and stage an intervention?

Xaod even made the good faith gesture of waiting until he was sober before trying to make any important decisions. In other words, he made an effort to remove drink from the list of issues—in good faith, remember. But then as he tries to address other more important (to him anyways) issues, he's faced with personal critisisms bordering on attack. Criticisms that probably hit a sensitive nerve, I might add. I'd say he had every right to be upset. Can't see anyone but those with extremely thich skin not getting upset at that.

It's kinda like Luke Skywalker showing up to the pre-Death-Star-Assault briefing only to have Mon Mothma tell him, "Luke, you're a whiny geek. No one cares if you get those power converters."

Probably shouldn't have gotten as über-pissed as he did, but that's Xaod for you.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-06, 12:11 AM
Is that really a good time to try and stage an intervention?

Is there a better touchy-feely moment than when the fate of the world is at stake?


Xaod even made the good faith gesture of waiting until he was sober before trying to make any important decisions.

Delay Poison. :P


Probably shouldn't have gotten as über-pissed as he did, but that's Xaod for you.

So you agree that he's a jerk? :smalltongue:

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-06, 08:57 AM
Is there a better touchy-feely moment than when the fate of the world is at stake?
Well, if you can turn it into something that better demonstrates The Power of Love (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePowerOfLove) in all its forms, I think you may be onto something.


Delay Poison. :P
Doesn't do much for damage already inflicted.


So you agree that he's a jerk? :smalltongue:
More or less yeah.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-06, 09:06 AM
Doesn't do much for damage already inflicted.

Ah ha, but thats just it. Alcohol is a poison but it's a poison that deals no damage. Delay Poison does render it obsolete in it's entirety. :smallamused:

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-06, 09:12 AM
Ah ha, but thats just it. Alcohol is a poison but it's a poison that deals no damage.
Someone's not reading Arms and Equipment Guide... :smallwink:

(Though that's admittedly not normal damage, recovering hourly rather than daily, but it's still considered damage (as opposed to penalties).)

In any case, he kinda needs access to delay poison if he's gonna use it at all.

And given his divine grace and all, it may be the case he voluntarily took some of that damage.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-06, 11:11 AM
Someone's not reading Arms and Equipment Guide... :smallwink:

I didn't think that was allowed for this game. :smalltongue:

Orthus has Delay Poison. :smallbiggrin:

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-07, 10:08 AM
I didn't think that was allowed for this game. :smalltongue:
Hey, it's on my list.


Orthus has Delay Poison. :smallbiggrin:
20/20 Hindsight?

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-07, 10:35 AM
Hey, it's on my list.

It is? Darn.

And I know. But from now on, Orthus is going to prepare Delay Poison anytime he goes the Inn. :smallbiggrin:

Another_Poet
2008-01-07, 11:34 AM
Sorry about the dupe post; it's been fixed.

And I love the OOC bickering--it's almost like we're sitting around an actual gaming table! (Except that here, bickering doesn't slow down the game.)

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-07, 05:19 PM
Sorry about the dupe post; it's been fixed.
No prob. I just pointed it out 'cause I figure you'd be using the "First Unread Post" link most of the time and would therefore be unlikely to catch it yourself.

Skjaldbakka
2008-01-07, 07:55 PM
Just wanted to let you know that I am still here. Megiddo has a certain amount of respect for druids (what with their nuetral leanings), and is unlikely to cut in on the conversation unless invited to.

Another_Poet
2008-01-07, 08:02 PM
Just wanted to let you know that I am still here. Megiddo has a certain amount of respect for druids (what with their nuetral leanings), and is unlikely to cut in on the conversation unless invited to.

Yeah, sorry about how long my little pre-quest is taking. I think it's finally wrapping up, and hopefully Ashstaff will give us something useful as far as info goes.

I was seriously considering attacking him, just to test and see if he is as good as he thinks he is (not to actually kill him). Luckily, no need.

ap

Skjaldbakka
2008-01-08, 08:47 AM
Yeah, that might have been a bad thing . . . of course, if this were 2nd ed.

. . .

Another_Poet
2008-01-08, 09:30 AM
Was it more acceptable to attack NPC's in 2nd ed?

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-08, 07:55 PM
Was it more acceptable to attack NPC's in 2nd ed?
No. But 2e still required you to pass trial by combat to level up past level 10 as a druid.

That is, every druid in 1e and 2e belonged to a worldwide druidic organization. The heirarchy strictly limited the number of high-ranking/high-level druids in the world. You could freely level up up to 10th or so level (have to find the book to find the exact level). After that, XP alone would not let you level up. You would have to defeat another druid in single combat to take their rank (and level). You still needed the XP, of course. At level 15 or 16, you would become the leader of all the druids. To reach higher levels, you would then have to voluntarily retire as an "Archdruid." After that point you can continue levelling freely.

All those hoops and the bipolar inerpretation of the class's required True Neutral alignment are probably why the druid was such a powerful class to begin with. Unfortunately when they ditched it, they didn't have the guts to ditch any of the "iconic" abilities. Enter: Druidzilla.

Of course, from what I have read, the whole system was based on the Old Faith druidic orders in Greyhawk. And Jaroo is an Old Faith druid. :smallwink:

Another_Poet
2008-01-08, 09:31 PM
Well, maybe when I level up a bit I will test him. But hopefully things will be peaceful. :)

Another_Poet
2008-01-10, 11:17 AM
Everybody else having problems with the site too? I assume that's why there have been so few posts.

If it's of use to anyone I find the problems are worst from 12-1 and 5-8 p.m. (CST) and even worse when a new OOTS has been posted.

In my other campaign I suggested we exchange e-mail addresses, just in case worse comes to worst and the forums go down long-term. That way we don't have to stop our game. To that end I'll PM mine to Shhalahr right now.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-10, 11:33 AM
Everybody else having problems with the site too? I assume that's why there have been so few posts.
Yeah. It's definitely server side.

Of course, the internet package I have for service was recently downgraded, so the server hiccups were particularly alarming, if only for a moment. "It's not supposed to be that slow! Oh, wait. There's a new comic up..."

As far as contact info, it's probably not a bad idea. Even though I allow e-mails in my profile, the actual address isn't visible. That means it's useless if the forum goes down.

AIM: Shhalahr
E-Mail: shhalahr-at-fastmail.us (Yeah, typical spam-bot protection. Replace the "-at-" with "@")

Another_Poet
2008-01-14, 10:45 PM
So, umm...

My druid breaks down and cries out of loneliness?

Tarinth
2008-01-16, 12:10 PM
Aww. Don't cry. Misery is just as contagious as happiness, if not moreso, so buck up buddy boy. Things will pick up as soon as the holidays wear off.

Another_Poet
2008-01-16, 01:05 PM
Holidays? Holidays? ... it's frickin' JUNE!

*looks at calendar again*

Er, uh, January? OK, I guess that's alright then.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-16, 02:53 PM
Even if it were June, we'd have Flag Day and Father's Day.

Oh, and June Dairy Days. (It's a Wisconsin thing. :smallwink:)

Another_Poet
2008-01-16, 04:12 PM
Even if it were June, we'd have Flag Day and Father's Day.

Oh, and June Dairy Days. (It's a Wisconsin thing. :smallwink:)


Weird... I'm from WI and haven't heard of it.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-16, 06:10 PM
Weird... I'm from WI and haven't heard of it.
Hm. For some reason I thought you were from Minnesota. Figured "Wisconsin Thing" would be generic enough for that.

It's more of a regional WI thing. I think the only place that really actually celebrates it is West Salem. And it's not really a big dairy producer, near as I can tell. But that's where the parade and carnival are. Might be a few other small towns and villages, I guess.

And West Salem is tiny as far as things go.

Another_Poet
2008-01-16, 06:41 PM
Yeah, in Minn. now but from Wis. originally.

Skjaldbakka
2008-01-22, 01:01 AM
I'm back to work now, which means steady computer access. Huzzah!

Thistle Dew
2008-01-24, 09:25 PM
Hello!
A friend of mine told me i should come and try my hand at this so here i am.
I am in the process of creating my PC for this setting.
this will be only my second venture into 3.0/3.5 rules. I mostly play second ed and never got to heavy into the lore of the standard world settings. With that in mind, if you make a reference to some setting or story line i wont have a clue what you are talking about.
I will be creating a dragon flame adept to join the party. It may not be the best class but it seems like it will be fun and should bring some handy skills to the table. Our DM is helping me get through the PC creation process.
It will probably take me a bit to get the hang of the new system but I think i will be alright with the help of my friends.

Skjaldbakka
2008-01-24, 11:29 PM
?

I didn't know we were recruiting.

:smallconfused:

Another_Poet
2008-01-25, 09:27 AM
Hi Thistle Dew.

I'm also a little confused. Did our DM (Shhalahr Windrider) invite you into the game? Or do you maybe have the wrong thread? There are lots of different games going on in this forum, after all...

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-25, 12:25 PM
He's a friend of Tarinth's.

It was sort of a grapevine thing.

Another_Poet
2008-01-25, 12:48 PM
Well, if he's a friend of y'all's he's a friend of mine. Hope we didn't put you off, Thistle Dew - was just confused at first.

Welcome to the group!

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-25, 01:47 PM
Would have given you more of a heads up, but I wasn't sure how interested he was until just before he posted. (That would be after working on the character with him for a little.)

Thistle Dew
2008-01-25, 08:34 PM
lol, I guess my intro may have been a bit blunt and lacking on needed background.

To sum it up I know Tarinth IRL and also shhalahr (sory if the spelling is off on the screen names ><)

Tarinth had been talking to me about his online D&D play (this one as well as others) and I started to take an interest so, since we four know each other, decided to talk out my joining in as long as its still early on.

Thistle Dew
2008-01-25, 08:42 PM
Would have given you more of a heads up, but I wasn't sure how interested he was until just before he posted. (That would be after working on the character with him for a little.)

yah.... i had been holding off on posting until we got to working on my guy (still thinking of a name) because it seemed you were not 100% on if you were ok on it. I don't like to be over zealous but.... i kind of am and that can confuse people, even those that know me well. I may seem less enthusiastic about something than I am. so once the PC creation got under way I decided to say my hellos! XD

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-28, 08:24 PM
Been doing some thinking of flat bonus feats like Weapon Focus, Skill Focus, Alertness, and so on. Result is this. Anyone up for implementing it in this campaign?

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-28, 09:55 PM
Yes, but I have one problem. If I had known Improved Initiative would have been a scaling bonus, I'd have taken it instead of Scribe Scroll at 6th(which I really only took because I didn't have any other options for a cleric). Would it be possible to switch out Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative(As we haven't used either yet).

Another_Poet
2008-01-28, 10:05 PM
Well, I may be the voice of dissent but I'm not really all the eager to change away from core. Then again, I don't think I have many/any feats that would benefit from this, so if it helps someone else, I won't object.

AP

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-01-28, 10:17 PM
Would it be possible to switch out Scribe Scroll for Improved Initiative(As we haven't used either yet).
Certainly.

I only bring it up this late because I hadn't thought it all the way through when we started, but it's been on my mind the last couple of weeks.

ZeroNumerous
2008-01-28, 11:20 PM
Well, I may be the voice of dissent but I'm not really all the eager to change away from core.

Uh.. We've been away from Core since the beginning. :smallconfused:

Skjaldbakka
2008-01-29, 12:33 AM
doesn't affect me, so I don't really care one way or another.

Another_Poet
2008-01-29, 10:59 AM
I guess I meant "any further away from core". I'e got several online and IRL campaigns going and am aiming to have to remember as few house rules as possible. :smallsmile:

But like I said, it wouldn't affect me, so I don't object.

ap

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-02-04, 10:54 AM
Hm...

With the appropriate NPCs we actually wind up with two groups... one starting out for the moathouse, one going to the Temple proper, right?

Each group is above the suggested starting level, so I think we can manage. Clear through the first few parts of this adventure a bit more quickly, too.

Just to keep things rounded up, I think it's best to have Thistle Dew's character meet Lor, Xaod, and (I assume—correct me if I'm wrong and we have a further split) Orthus on the way to the main Temple.

Should be doable. But with the differences in travel time between the locations, I'm gonna have to pay attention to how events synchronize. :smalltongue:

ZeroNumerous
2008-02-04, 03:47 PM
Orthus is still at the inn, so.. Ya. :smallconfused:

Tarinth
2008-02-04, 10:03 PM
Well, I'm sure Tell or Megiddo will check in on their friend Orthus before they head out if Lor is too mad at you.

Anyway, I found a company, G2 or something, that makes D3's, 5's, 14's, and 16's. Crazy huh, and they swear by their randomness. The 14's and 16's ar pretty underwelming, but the D5 looks really cool.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-02-06, 07:55 PM
It appears that Lor doesn't have a horse. Is that Correct?

Thistle Dew, are you ready? Do you have a sheet up?

ZeroNumerous
2008-02-06, 11:47 PM
Orthus also lacks a horse(and no self respecting dwarf would be caught dead ridin' one :smalltongue:)

Another_Poet
2008-02-06, 11:53 PM
I could summon horses for you guys.

But they'd only last for a few minutes a day.

Also, don't let Megiddo see.

Skjaldbakka
2008-02-07, 03:20 AM
Actually, it was established that Megiddo's gripe is with summoned extraplanar creatures, like outsiders and elementals, not natural creatures.

Another_Poet
2008-02-07, 12:17 PM
Yeah, but these are ... um.... dire celestial horses. Yeah.

Another_Poet
2008-02-07, 12:19 PM
Yeah, but these are ... um.... dire celestial horses. Yeah.

Skjaldbakka
2008-02-07, 12:38 PM
huh. why would you be summoning those? wouldn't it be easier to just cast mount?

Another_Poet
2008-02-07, 01:54 PM
Look, if you spend 10 years communing with nature then you can summon horses however you want. But as long as I'm the only druid around here, you're gonna get dire celestial half-dragon ghost horses and you're going to like it! :smalltongue:

Also, sorry for the double post up above. Clicking "submit" was not covered in Nature Communion School.

ap

Tarinth
2008-02-07, 02:42 PM
Looks like we're getting there the same way we got here, by walking, which is fine with me.

Tell, You can just delete the double post if it bugs ya.

Another_Poet
2008-02-07, 03:18 PM
Meh, no biggie.

Shhalahr, any chance you'll be posting about Tell's all-u-can-eat boar buffet?

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-02-08, 07:45 PM
Shhalahr, any chance you'll be posting about Tell's all-u-can-eat boar buffet?
Clinging a bit too much to in-character event synchronization, I guess. Kinda hoping to do that in the same bit as Xaod and Lor's exit.

Kinda want to hear back from Thistle Dew again before we go too much further. I'll have to see if I can get a hold of him in real life on my end.

Tarinth
2008-02-11, 10:49 AM
Thislte Do just bought the parts for a new computer of gaming glory for WOW and has yet to properly assemble it. His spiffy quad-core proccessor is still running hot, so his friend Mr. Computer is trying to help him. Anyway, I'll be sure to let him know he's needed so he can post on another computer.

Shhalahr Windrider
2008-02-13, 02:50 PM
Okay, we've been held up long enough. I'm gonna advance things one way or another tomorrow.

Another_Poet
2008-02-13, 03:09 PM
Huzzah!

Boar meat for supper tonight!