ABERRANT DRAGONMARK ruling question

[Sol0botmate]

It says about that extra 1st level Sorcere spell you learn: "You learn that spell and can cast it through your mark"

Does it mean that I learn it, ie. I add it to my spelllist AND I can cast it through mark?

I am little confused with it.

[jaappleton]

It says about that extra 1st level Sorcere spell you learn: "You learn that spell and can cast it through your mark"

Does it mean that I learn it, ie. I add it to my spelllist AND I can cast it through mark?

I am little confused with it.

Its a good question.

Now, Drow magic (Faerie Fire, Darkness) it mentions the line 'you know'. However, you cannot cast them through spell slots. They are innate racial spells given to the character by their race. NOT through the Spellcasting class feature, and as such cannot be cast with spell slots.

Aberrant Dragonmark works the same way.

So you can cast it through the mark, but not through any sort of spell slot, whether Spellcasting or Pact Magic.

[PhantomSoul]

I'd interpret it (assuming the full relevant text is quoted) that you know the spell (so you can use your slots), but it's not treated as being in any other class spell list (e.g. if you're a bard, it's not a bard spell for you).

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I interpreted it to mean that the mark was effectively your focus for the spell.

[Zaile]

I've always interpreted "learn" as, well learn. Add it to your spell sits/spells known. As stated above, there are a lot of other abilities that have different wording and clearly prohibit you from casting them in spell slots.

[Sol0botmate]

I've always interpreted "learn" as, well learn. Add it to your spell sits/spells known. As stated above, there are a lot of other abilities that have different wording and clearly prohibit you from casting them in spell slots.

I am mostly on the same boat because why would they say "you learn it AND can cast it through your dragonmark" instead of just "you can cast it through your dragonmark".

[RedMage125]

Its a good question.

Now, Drow magic (Faerie Fire, Darkness) it mentions the line 'you know'. However, you cannot cast them through spell slots. They are innate racial spells given to the character by their race. NOT through the Spellcasting class feature, and as such cannot be cast with spell slots.

Aberrant Dragonmark works the same way.

So you can cast it through the mark, but not through any sort of spell slot, whether Spellcasting or Pact Magic.

I'm sorry jaapleton, you're wrong.

Drow Magic says "you know" the cantrip dancing lights. For faerie fire and darkness, the language used is "you may cast X once per day". It does not say those spells are "known". Same goes with tieflings, and all the True Dragonmark races and their dragonmark spells. They say "you may cast [x spell] with this trait". "You know" is used with regards to cantrips. And since those are unlimited times per day, it's appropriate.

Contrast with Aberrant Dragonmark. It says "You learn that spell". Not "you may cast this spell". So it is a spell that is known. Which means you may use your spell slots to cast that spell if you have the Spellcasting or Pact Magic abilities. Now, it also specifies that your casting stat "for these spells" is Constitution. Which means that even if you use a spell slot, you must use CON as your casting stat for attack rolls or save DC.

However, the 3rd bullet of the feat (burning Hit Dice to gain temp hp or do force dmg) specifically only applies when you cast that spell "through your mark". So you can't do that if you cast with a spell slot.

[cookieface]

I'm sorry jaapleton, you're wrong.

Drow Magic says "you know" the cantrip dancing lights. For faerie fire and darkness, the language used is "you may cast X once per day". It does not say those spells are "known". Same goes with tieflings, and all the True Dragonmark races and their dragonmark spells. They say "you may cast [x spell] with this trait". "You know" is used with regards to cantrips. And since those are unlimited times per day, it's appropriate.

Contrast with Aberrant Dragonmark. It says "You learn that spell". Not "you may cast this spell". So it is a spell that is known. Which means you may use your spell slots to cast that spell if you have the Spellcasting or Pact Magic abilities. Now, it also specifies that your casting stat "for these spells" is Constitution. Which means that even if you use a spell slot, you must use CON as your casting stat for attack rolls or save DC.

However, the 3rd bullet of the feat (burning Hit Dice to gain temp hp or do force dmg) specifically only applies when you cast that spell "through your mark". So you can't do that if you cast with a spell slot.

Not sure if you have different wordings, but for me Drow High Magic says "You also learn levitate and dispel magic...". It's similar language for Magic Initiate, and Shadow Touched, and other feats that teach spells.

Magic Initiate has had several clarifications that state a player can only use spell slots to cast the spell learned if and only if they chose a spell list (for MI) that they already have the spellcasting/pact magic trait for.

Here's the important reason behind that: The spellcasting traits specifically state that to use a spell slot, the spell must be a [class] spell. Sorcerers can only use their spell slots for Sorcerer spells. Wizards can only use their spell slots for Wizard spells.

What is unclear is whether the Aberrant Dragonmark spell is considered a Sorcerer spell, or if it is something else entirely.

I'd argue that, because Fey Touched and Shadow Touched include the sentence "You can also cast these spells using spell slots you have of the appropriate level", and AD does NOT have that language, then it cannot be used via spell slots at all.

That's all by RAW, though. In general, as DM, I'd allow any spells learned from Feats, no matter what, to be used additional times for the expense of a spell slot.

[jaappleton]

I'm sorry jaapleton, you're wrong.

Drow Magic says "you know" the cantrip dancing lights. For faerie fire and darkness, the language used is "you may cast X once per day". It does not say those spells are "known". Same goes with tieflings, and all the True Dragonmark races and their dragonmark spells. They say "you may cast [x spell] with this trait". "You know" is used with regards to cantrips. And since those are unlimited times per day, it's appropriate.

Contrast with Aberrant Dragonmark. It says "You learn that spell". Not "you may cast this spell". So it is a spell that is known. Which means you may use your spell slots to cast that spell if you have the Spellcasting or Pact Magic abilities. Now, it also specifies that your casting stat "for these spells" is Constitution. Which means that even if you use a spell slot, you must use CON as your casting stat for attack rolls or save DC.

However, the 3rd bullet of the feat (burning Hit Dice to gain temp hp or do force dmg) specifically only applies when you cast that spell "through your mark". So you can't do that if you cast with a spell slot.

Fairly certain you’re likely looking at a first print of the PHB.

Additionally, I’m not wrong, certainly not in regards to whether or not the Aberrant Dragonmark spell taken from the Sorcerer list can be cast with spell slots.

They recently did a whole slew of errata, and if they had intended for that feat to allow it to be cast with spell slots, then it’s wording would have been changed to be in line with the likes of Fey Touched from Tasha’s.

If you’d like further evidence, look at the Dragonmarked races and their bonus spell lists. From the very same book which provides Aberrant Dragonmark; It specifically states the Dragonmarked race spells are added to to class spell list. The feat Aberrant Dragonmark makes no such note, and there is a reason for that.

[BerzerkerUnit]

Fairly certain you’re likely looking at a first print of the PHB.

Additionally, I’m not wrong, certainly not in regards to whether or not the Aberrant Dragonmark spell taken from the Sorcerer list can be cast with spell slots.

They recently did a whole slew of errata, and if they had intended for that feat to allow it to be cast with spell slots, then it’s wording would have been changed to be in line with the likes of Fey Touched from Tasha’s.

If you’d like further evidence, look at the Dragonmarked races and their bonus spell lists. From the very same book which provides Aberrant Dragonmark; It specifically states the Dragonmarked race spells are added to to class spell list. The feat Aberrant Dragonmark makes no such note, and there is a reason for that.

That reason could just as readily be word count or formatting limitations, it definitely isn't "balance." We can dance with zombies over what Aberrant Dragonmarks "are canonically" but ultimately that's a DM decision and the Dragonmark spell lists being added to class lists for dragonmarked characters is as much justification to infer Aberrant spells are added too as not.

From the clear wording of the feat, you learn the spell. You can cast spells you know with spell slots you have of the required level. "Sorc slots for sorc spells and Wizard slots for wizard spells" makes 0 sense when you multiclass sorc/wizard. A slot is a slot unless very specifically worded otherwise.

[cookieface]

You can cast spells you know with spell slots you have of the required level. "Sorc slots for sorc spells and Wizard slots for wizard spells" makes 0 sense when you multiclass sorc/wizard. A slot is a slot unless very specifically worded otherwise.

That's not how spellcasting class features work. They specifically say you cast Cleric spells with Cleric spell slots, etc. When multiclassing, the spellcasting rules change and specifically state that you can use Wizard slots for Sorc spells and vice versa.

[Valmark]

That's not how spellcasting class features work. They specifically say you cast Cleric spells with Cleric spell slots, etc. When multiclassing, the spellcasting rules change and specifically state that you can use Wizard slots for Sorc spells and vice versa.

It's not said anywhere that you cast [class] spells through [class] spell slots, actually. Not even in Multiclassing. It wouldn't even make sense since you need to add your caster levels to calculate your spell slots.

It was even errata'd out of the paladin's smite ability (earlier it asked for paladin spell slots, that was removed).

The only time you see [class] spell slots referenced is in the warlock- and that makes sense since a warlock has their own personal feature that only a warlock has. Funny enough the wording you reference for multiclassing is presented in the section about combining Spellcasting and Pact Magic, not about combining two different Spellcasting classes.

[cookieface]

It's not said anywhere that you cast [class] spells through [class] spell slots, actually. Not even in Multiclassing. It wouldn't even make sense since you need to add your caster levels to calculate your spell slots.

"The Sorcerer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your sorcerer spells of 1st level and higher." Therefore, if you only have access to spell slots via the Sorcerer table, then you cannot cast any non-sorcerer spells with them.

[Valmark]

"The Sorcerer table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your sorcerer spells of 1st level and higher." Therefore, if you only have access to spell slots via the Sorcerer table, then you cannot cast any non-sorcerer spells with them.

Not necessarily- it says how many slots you have to cast the sorcerer spells, not that the slots can only be used to cast sorcerer spells.

Which is beside the point because I replied to another thing- the spell slots are not called "sorcerer spell slots" but just "spell slots" which is what you were saying.

[MrStabby]

I had interpreted the casting it through the dragonmark to mean that for that spell the dragonmark acted as a spell focus.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I had interpreted the casting it through the dragonmark to mean that for that spell the dragonmark acted as a spell focus.

Which is a good benefit for most characters if your group is playing with tight rules around needing a free hand for a focus, which our is.

[RedMage125]

Fairly certain you’re likely looking at a first print of the PHB.

Additionally, I’m not wrong, certainly not in regards to whether or not the Aberrant Dragonmark spell taken from the Sorcerer list can be cast with spell slots.

They recently did a whole slew of errata, and if they had intended for that feat to allow it to be cast with spell slots, then it’s wording would have been changed to be in line with the likes of Fey Touched from Tasha’s.

If you’d like further evidence, look at the Dragonmarked races and their bonus spell lists. From the very same book which provides Aberrant Dragonmark; It specifically states the Dragonmarked race spells are added to to class spell list. The feat Aberrant Dragonmark makes no such note, and there is a reason for that.

You know what? I am looking at a first printing of the PHB.

I also do not yet have Tasha's. I don't know if anyone here follows the news with regards to the military, but the carrier I am on has been on deployment for 10 months and counting. So no new book for me. And I don't know what Fey and Shadow touched even are.

HOWEVER, with regard to the dragonmarked races, I was talking about the spells they automatically get use of, not the spells that get added to their spell list if they have Spellcasting or Pact Magic. Mark of Detection: "You can cast the detect magic and detect poison and disease spells with this trait." Mark of Finding: "You can cast the hunter's mark spell with this trait." And so on, et cetera.

Radically distinct from, in the same book, "You learn that [1st level sorcerer] spell and can cast it through your mark".

RAW seems clear. Especially with regard to how Spellcasting works when spells from multiple sources are known. A Cleric 1/Wizard 9 can use 5th level spell slots to upcast his Cleric spells, even though he may only prepare 1st level Cleric spells. A character with the Aberrant Dragonmark feat knows that spell, and may cast it once, with a SR/LR required to cast it again through the mark. But it remains a spell known.

Important to note, however, that even if a character uses a Spell Slot to cast their Aberrant Dragonmark spell, the casting stat for it it always Constitution.