Does Flaming Sphere block squares?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, just as the title asks, Does Flaming Sphere block squares? This comes up because I was involved in a game and the DM just skipped the question and decided we would come back to it later. I was also thinking that this could be really powerful with the Spell Storing item and Tiny Servant combo that many Artificers like to use.

It also makes me think that this would be extremely good in large battles. A couple level 11 Artificers completely controlling large sections of a battle field with 9 flaming spheres all controlled by automated metal boxes with total concealment/cover due to to the tiny servants blindsight.

[Snivlem]

Hello all, just as the title asks, Does Flaming Sphere block squares? This comes up because I was involved in a game and the DM just skipped the question and decided we would come back to it later. I was also thinking that this could be really powerful with the Spell Storing item and Tiny Servant combo that many Artificers like to use.

It also makes me think that this would be extremely good in large battles. A couple level 11 Artificers completely controlling large sections of a battle field with 9 flaming spheres all controlled by automated metal boxes with total concealment/cover due to to the tiny servants blindsight.

Doesn't sees like it. It is just a sphere of "fire". It would make sence to rule that you take damage if you move through it though, but that would be a house rule.

[Tanarii]

Yup. It needs an unoccupied square and it rams things and there's no rule for taking damage moving through or starting in it's space. It's a physical sphere.

[Lalliman]

It's ambiguous, like many things in 5e, but the wording seems to imply that it's solid. Like Tanarii said, it requires an unoccupied square, which a non-solid spell like Wall of Fire doesn't. And not only does it "ram" into people, but it stops moving when it rams into someone, which only a solid object would do. It doesn't make a lot of sense, for a ball made of fire, but that's how it works.

[Reynaert]

It doesn't make a lot of sense, for a ball made of fire, but that's how it works.

I'm not a native English speaker, but I thought "flaming sphere" means the same as "a sphere that is on fire" rather tnan "a sphere made of fire" ?

[elyktsorb]

I'm going to say no. Namely because it is a sphere of fire, it states it is a '5 foot diameter' sphere of fire. Which means it is completely made of fire. Which means there is no reason you can't move through it. I'd say you'd probably be willingly taking the fire damage if you moved through it, given that it is a ball of fire.

Technically as written you'd take no damage for going through it if you decided to, as it's only allowed to force the saving throw if a creature ends it's turn near the fire, or if you ram the fire into a creature.

If you wanted to interpret that logically, I'd say ramming it into a creature is forcing the creature to actually touch the fire, which in all technicality means instead of stopping the Flaming Sphere next to a creature, you should instead put the entire sphere on the creature, as if you had 'rammed' the sphere into the creature, and not simply brought it next to the creature.

So it occurs to me we may be using Flaming Sphere incorrectly if we're just stopping it next to a creature as opposed to putting it on the creature it gets rammed into.

[Segev]

For what it's worth, in prior editions, it was called out as having a spngy texture and thus not being able to do bludgeoning damage. You can read into what it says it does in 5e to see if it implies something similar, or you can read into the fact that it doesn't say that in this edition.

[Lalliman]

I'm not a native English speaker, but I thought "flaming sphere" means the same as "a sphere that is on fire" rather tnan "a sphere made of fire" ?
"Flaming sphere" does literally mean "sphere that is on fire", yes. But it's not far-fetched to use it as a more flowery way to say "sphere made of fire". And since the spell description calls it a "sphere of fire", it's clearly meant to be the second interpretation.

I think the conclusion is that the workings of Flaming Sphere are kind of weird, and that the DM will need to make a ruling on whether it's solid or not. If they rule that it isn't, they'll need to make an additional ruling on what happens when you go inside of it. I guess 2d6 fire damage, no save, is the most convenient answer.

[Amnestic]

If it blocks squares wouldn't that make it an object that can be targeted/damaged to end the spell early?

While, yeah, targeting the caster is probably more efficient in most cases, it makes the sphere vulnerable to, for example, AoE, and there may be certain instances where you can't reach the caster (it can be 90' away from the caster on the turn they cast it) that turn and attacking the sphere makes more sense.

I personally don't think it should block squares and count as an object, but I don't think you can have one without the other.

[Tanarii]

I personally don't think it should block squares and count as an object, but I don't think you can have one without the other.
It's better than the alternative, that creatures can just stroll through it without taking damage. You can already walk past it without damage, and that's bad enough,

[Amnestic]

It's better than the alternative, that creatures can just stroll through it without taking damage. You can already walk past it without damage, and that's bad enough,

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

I don't have an issue with someone running through fire and not taking any damage. I don't really recommend trying it, but it doesn't seem outside of the realm of possibility. But like I said, if you wanna play it as an object I can understand it, just make sure your players are aware of that so everyone's making the appropriate decisions in combat re: it being a target for attacks/AoE.

[Keravath]

The spell text is ambiguous leaving it up to the DM to decide how to deal with it.

Here is the text:

"A 5-foot-diameter sphere of fire appears in an unoccupied space of your choice within range and lasts for the duration. Any creature that ends its turn within 5 feet of the sphere must make a Dexterity saving throw. The creature takes 2d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.
As a bonus action, you can move the sphere up to 30 feet. If you ram the sphere into a creature, that creature must make the saving throw against the sphere's damage, and the sphere stops moving this turn.
When you move the sphere, you can direct it over barriers up to 5 feet tall and jump it across pits up to 10 feet wide. The sphere ignites flammable objects not being worn or carried, and it sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet."

1) Any creature that ends its turn within 5' of the sphere takes damage. It does not say that you can not occupy the same space as the sphere and the same space is certainly within 5' of the sphere.

2) If you ram the sphere into a creature, the creature makes a save and the sphere stops moving. However, this does not specify where the sphere stops moving. This could be interpreted as either being IN the target creatures location or adjacent to it. Ramming the creature with the sphere implies that the sphere must enter the target creatures space at some point otherwise it could not hit them - so it might be reasonably interpreted that the sphere stops IN the target creatures space rather than adjacent to it.

Anyway, RAW, the spell says nothing about the sphere preventing movement into or through it and the spell text could be read either way in terms of whether the sphere enters target creatures location or not ... so this is entirely in the realm of how the DM wants to play it in their game.


As far as moving through the sphere of fire goes - I would tend to interpret it as meaning that the sphere of fire is hot but that it takes a little bit of time for that heat to build and do damage - much like circus performers who jump through a ring of fire - so in order for the sphere to do damage a creature has to stop in or beside it OR the sphere needs to be moved into a creature's space so that they are exposed to the fire for a longer period of time. (At least that is the hand wavey way to explain the difference in game terms between moving through it and ending your turn in it or next to it or having it rammed into you).

P.S. It mostly comes down to whether the DM wants to play it as a solid object of a sphere of heated flaming air.

[Tanarii]

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

I don't have an issue with someone running through fire and not taking any damage. I don't really recommend trying it, but it doesn't seem outside of the realm of possibility.Walk, not run. 15 ft in 3-6 seconds is no more than 3mph, and possibly as little as 1.5mph.


But like I said, if you wanna play it as an object I can understand it, just make sure your players are aware of that so everyone's making the appropriate decisions in combat re: it being a target for attacks/AoE.
Why? Occupying a space doesn't mean any of those things. c.f. Guardian of Faith


1) Any creature that ends its turn within 5' of the sphere takes damage. It does not say that you can not occupy the same space as the sphere and the same space is certainly within 5' of the sphere.
Since the same space / inside is definitely not the same as within 5ft, this is a good argument that it's not intended you can be inside the sphere.

[Amnestic]

Why? Occupying a space doesn't mean any of those things. c.f. Guardian of Faith


How can it block movement if it's not something you can physically interact with?

As with any Crawford tweet, take it with a grain of salt, but he seems to not have an issue with moving through it when the question was raised:
https://twitter.com/MLenser/status/542622815888113664

I'd also note that Flaming Sphere does not say it occupies the space, like Guardian of Faith does. Rather it need only be summoned in an unoccupied space. Is that a writing oversight? Does it change anything? idk, but it's something.

Either way, I've said how I'd run it, you don't agree, I don't think I'll convince you or vice versa.

[Democratus]

If you interpret spells as doing no more and no less than their description, then it does not block.

Otherwise, it's all up to you to rule how you think it behaves. Just be sure to be consistent if you can. :smallsmile:

[Dark.Revenant]

Flaming Sphere does not occupy a space, because the spell text does not specify a Size (small, medium, etc.) and does not say that it occupies its space. This is distinct from Guardian of Faith, which does specify those things.


You can move through a nonhostile creature's space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature's space is difficult terrain for you.

Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space.

I would consider it a fair ruling that Guardian of Faith is a "hostile creature" for this purpose, but a Flaming Sphere definitely is not. Therefore, you can move through its area, unless some extenuating circumstance prevents you from doing so. The DM is free to say that it is difficult terrain and assign a penalty of fire damage, I suppose.

[NecessaryWeevil]

The spell text is ambiguous leaving it up to the DM to decide how to deal with it.

2) If you ram the sphere into a creature, the creature makes a save and the sphere stops moving. However, this does not specify where the sphere stops moving. This could be interpreted as either being IN the target creatures location or adjacent to it. Ramming the creature with the sphere implies that the sphere must enter the target creatures space at some point otherwise it could not hit them - so it might be reasonably interpreted that the sphere stops IN the target creatures space rather than adjacent to it.



You *could* interpret it that way but I don't think ramming necessarily implies it. Yes, you have to sufficiently intrude on a creature's space in order to ram it, but the same goes for biting, punching, grappling or shoving.

[Keravath]

You *could* interpret it that way but I don't think ramming necessarily implies it. Yes, you have to sufficiently intrude on a creature's space in order to ram it, but the same goes for biting, punching, grappling or shoving.

Sure. That is why I said it is up to the DM (as are most things). Personally, I have usually run Flaming Sphere as a solid ball of fire that occupies its square and which creatures could not move through. However, after reading the spell description in the context of the OP question I realized I could interpret it either way - so ultimately, the decision on how a DM wants to run it in their game is up to them but I can see RAW supporting either interpretation.

[Ettina]

I would consider it a fair ruling that Guardian of Faith is a "hostile creature" for this purpose, but a Flaming Sphere definitely is not. Therefore, you can move through its area, unless some extenuating circumstance prevents you from doing so. The DM is free to say that it is difficult terrain and assign a penalty of fire damage, I suppose.

What would the Guardian of Faith's hit points be? What conditions can it be affected by? What type of creature is it? What's its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma scores? If it's a creature, you need to know the answer to all of those to properly run it in combat.

[Dark.Revenant]

What would the Guardian of Faith's hit points be? What conditions can it be affected by? What type of creature is it? What's its Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, Intelligence and Charisma scores? If it's a creature, you need to know the answer to all of those to properly run it in combat.

It's not a creature. However, since it occupies its space, has a size, and is clearly "owned" by a hostile creature, it might as well effectively be a hostile creature for the purposes of movement.