do you lose benefits of templates if you no longer qualify for it?

[newguydude1]

me->polymorph any object->zombie. then i spell-stitched tattoo on myself.
then the pao ends.
do i get to keep my slas?

[Troacctid]

You keep the benefits of a template if you lose the prerequisites for it, but that's not really the situation you're describing here. What you actually want to know is whether any physical or magical changes to your form that occur while you are polymorphed will carry over to you after the morph ends. Entirely different question, and one that is, in fact, moot, because you can't polymorph into an undead unless you are one already, at which point there's no need to resort to such shenanigans, since you can be spellstitched in your normal form.

[hamishspence]

How's that?


Regular polymorph is worded in a way that makes it explicit that it only works on living creatures, but polymorph any object works on all creatures, living or otherwise, and on objects.

Since it works on objects, undead immunity to all [Fort] based spells that are not harmless, doesn't kick in.

[newguydude1]

How's that?


Regular polymorph is worded in a way that makes it explicit that it only works on living creatures, but polymorph any object works on all creatures, living or otherwise, and on objects.

Since it works on objects, undead immunity to all [Fort] based spells that are not harmless, doesn't kick in.

i remember this argument.

rules of the game says you can turn into undead and constructs with pao
normal raw doesnt because no special mention of being able to do so is specified.


You keep the benefits of a template if you lose the prerequisites for it, but that's not really the situation you're describing here. What you actually want to know is whether any physical or magical changes to your form that occur while you are polymorphed will carry over to you after the morph ends. Entirely different question, and one that is, in fact, moot, because you can't polymorph into an undead unless you are one already, at which point there's no need to resort to such shenanigans, since you can be spellstitched in your normal form.

slas arent a physical change right?

[hamishspence]

rules of the game says you can turn into undead and constructs with pao
normal raw doesnt because no special mention of being able to do so is specified.


My opinion is that "normal RAW" is being read overly restrictively. At least, by changing the target of the spell from "living creature" in the less powerful version to "creature" in the more powerful version, we know that the more powerful spell works on Undead.

And when you compare the wording:


https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another.

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm

This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature.

it seems fairly unambiguous that the "living creature" restriction, on what you can turn into, is dropped.

[Troacctid]

slas arent a physical change right?
You don't actually get the SLAs of your morphed form, though.

[hamishspence]

True. You don't even get SLAs with shapechange as standard - only the supernatural and extraordinary ones.

[Jack_Simth]

me->polymorph any object->zombie. then i spell-stitched tattoo on myself.
then the pao ends.
do i get to keep my slas?

Can't use a Zombie. Neither Polymorph nor it's higher-level cousins can do templates. Something like a Wight would be fine, though. Oh yes, and in 3.5, PaO gives you the int of the new form. For a zomie, that's -, so you don't want that form anyway.

In the end, though: "Not specified in RAW, ask your DM"

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What you're trying to ask is, "If I temporarily assume the form of another creature, then that assumed form gains a template, then I revert back to my original form, does my original form now have the template that was applied to the assumed form?"

I would say no, because you revert back to your original form after the spell ends.

[newguydude1]

You don't actually get the SLAs of your morphed form, though.

ok so my line of thought is
pao into intelligent undead
gain the spellstitched template. i get the slas because i didnt pao into a spellstitched undead. i pao into normal undead. spellstitch is an entirely independent effect unrelated to pao.
i revert back and keep the spell stitched template because theres nothing in d&d that says you lose your template when your race changes. so id be a spellstitched changeling.

i dont think it works honestly, but im hoping someone might say im right. long shot i know.

[Doctor Despair]

Also problematic to the Spell Stitched trick is that your character becomes ineligible to be a PC upon taking it, as it is LA -

[newguydude1]

Also problematic to the Spell Stitched trick is that your character becomes ineligible to be a PC upon taking it, as it is LA -

this isnt true. lots of necromancer threads suggest you spellstitch animate dead.

i looked it up, the la:- is the ghast so that doesnt count.
but the template doesnt have a la entry. does that default to - or 0? if it defaults to - your right but if not your not.

i mean you can stitch yourself. its in the description. any undead sorcerer can stitch himself. theres a money and xp cost. i think its totally intended for pcs to use.



assuming its la 0.
how about necropolitan?

necropolitan->spellstitched->some kind of resurrection spell that turns you back to nonundead. is spellstitched lost?

edit:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?581032-Spellstitched-Undead-are-LA
according to this thread no la means no modification to la.

[Vizzerdrix]

Spellstitched is one of those really nice things that I wish players had easier access to.

[Crichton]

as it is LA -

No, it is not. It has no entry/field at all for Level Adjustment, which, according to the general rules for Template entries/fields, means the template doesn't modify that entry from what the original creature had.



i looked it up, the la:- is the ghast so that doesnt count.
but the template doesnt have a la entry. does that default to - or 0? if it defaults to - your right but if not your not.
.


As you say, the LA: - entry is for the sample Ghast, but the actual Template, on page 162, has no entry for LA. The default isn't either LA:0 or LA:- though. The default for Templates is that if a particular entry is missing from the Template, then the Template doesn't change that aspect of the original creature.





if a template does not cause a change to a certain statistic, that entry is missing from the template description (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#readingATemplate)

[InvisibleBison]

No, it is not. It has no entry/field at all for Level Adjustment, which, according to the general rules for Template entries/fields, means the template doesn't modify that entry from what the original creature had.




As you say, the LA: - entry is for the sample Ghast, but the actual Template, on page 162, has no entry for LA. The default isn't either LA:0 or LA:- though. The default for Templates is that if a particular entry is missing from the Template, then the Template doesn't change that aspect of the original creature.

The spellstitched template is from a 3.0 book, which was published before level adjustment was a thing. Figuring out what the LA should be is part of the minor adjustments a DM has to do in order to use 3.0 content in a 3.5 game. In other words, it's up to your DM what spellstitched's LA is, but you can't assume it's LA +0.

[newguydude1]

The spellstitched template is from a 3.0 book, which was published before level adjustment was a thing. Figuring out what the LA should be is part of the minor adjustments a DM has to do in order to use 3.0 content in a 3.5 game. In other words, it's up to your DM what spellstitched's LA is, but you can't assume it's LA +0.

its in complete arcane

[InvisibleBison]

its in complete arcane

Oh, I hadn't realized it had been republished in a 3.5 book. I guess it is LA +0, then.