The Royal Artificery Society - OOC

[DeTess]

players:


Player
Character
Race


Prehysterical
Bolten Cogturner (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2381427)
Dwarf


Windstruck
Shandara (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1807105)
Drow


MrAbdiel
Aiden Sorveaux (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2562936)
Human




retired players:


Player
Character
Race


Armonia13
Xavier Trafalgar (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2381706)
Human


Sønderjye
Zacharias "Z" Volenta (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2381417)
Human


pi4t
Meredith Dockson (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=2383664)
Human


Elbeyon
Symphony of "Zeal" (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24894768&postcount=101)
Warforged



Lore snippets:

Lokhad Forgeheart, Master of the Facilities
Lokhad is an old dwarf, with a long greying beard and piercing blue eyes. He sued to be a talented smith, and still teaches theorethical courses on metallurgy, but his advanced age has robbed him of the strength to properly wield a forging hammer. Instead, he oversees the care and sue of the many workshops on the campus, and deals with misdemeanours of Society members while on campus grounds. He is known for being willing to go to significant lengths to help the members of the Society do their work, but if you purposefully mistreat the facilities or put parts of the campus in danger with reckless experiments he'll make you regret it.

Headmaster Owena Dey
Owena is half-elf, and the Headmaster of the academy housed in the campus. She's a district disciplinarian, and in a constant low-key war with the entertainment district near the campus. Though some might find her moralizing a bit tiresome, there's little doubt that she's got a great eye for talent among both students and prospective teaching staff, and her connections among the high nobility can be of great use to those she favors.

Cirast Overhill, Curator of Alchemy
Cirast is a middle-aged halfling of unusually large size in every dimension except height. He's known as connoisseur of fine dining and finer beverages, and his detractors scoff that his skill at alchemy is merely a side-effect of his desire to brew alcohol from every single fruit, vegetable and mushroom ever discovered. Nonetheless, it'd be a mistake to dismiss his skills. His knowledge of alchemical formulas is vast, and it's been said he can determine the full ingredient list of a potion from just the tiniest of sips.

Maria Escribano, Curator of Engineering
The humans of House Escribano earned its place among the high nobility on the battlefield's of the age of conquest. Their members where the very finest siege engineers in the Emperor's employ, and Maria is no different, though she applies her knowledge too less martial endeavours. She has had her hands in tons of designs, from the aqueducts that provide water throughout Vaungate and many other major cities, to the cranes that help unload ships in the harbor in record time, to the massive wind and watermills that process the empire's grain. Her workshops have produced many fine designs, and it's said that she never does something small.
The only thing that comes close to matching her intellect and creativity is her temper. Those that seek advice or favors from her know to be straight and to the point, as she cannot stand those that waste her time.

Jassin Iliran, Curator of Architecture
"Form and Function" is the motto of the Iliran stoneworks. No embellishment should be without function, but every design should be elegant nonetheless. Jassin considers it to be every Architect's calling to make the most practical building possible, while making the most beautiful building possible. Iliran has designed many of the grandest buildings in the capital, and the elf's style is emulated by many other architects. Apart from the aesthetics, one of the things that sets Iliran apart from their peers is the foresight involved in the elf's designs. The most clear example of this was the expansion of the Imperial theater, where the acoustics of the theater allowed shows to continue even while the work was happening, with none of the noise of construction penetrating into the great halls where performances where being held. This wasn't a happy accident, but a targeted effort by the elf to dampen noise coming from the most likely sites for expansion of the building.

The elf is rarely seen in public, preferring the peace of their offices. Nonetheless, they seem to have an uncanny ability to know exactly what's going on in the city, and where their services will be required.

Ralph Curnow, Curator of Biology
Curnow is the most respected doctor int eh empire. Though frequently called upon to attend the emperor and the high nobility, he makes a point of spending time to advice in the various hospitals and wards in the poorer districts as well. He helps who he can, irrespective of their social status, and treats everyone with the same firm but friendly way. He's dictated several books on best practices in medicine, including the importance of cleanliness to avoiding infections, and he has helped end many harmful practices based on what he considers 'counterfactual superstitions'.
However, he is only one man, and though many have sought to study under him, he has never made time to teach, referring those that would seek his mentorship to others, or to his books instead. There are also periods in which he becomes completely unavailable, something those closer to him attribute to his unwillingness tos top working until his body forces him to get rest.

Kou Maron, Curator of the Archives
When many people think of an Archivist, they imagine a stuffy and old librarian, constantly fussing over books. And this is true for quite a few of the archivists on the campus, but not for Kou. She's the youngest person to ever hold the title at only 27 years of age, and spends most of her time away from the archives. Instead she travels the empire and beyond, tracking down rare volumes and bringing them back. Her capacity for finding rare volumes is without peer, and she's found many books thought lost forever.
When she is in the capital, the young catfolk is visited by many researchers looking to convince her to track down a work they need next. She also spends time recovering works that have been lost in the labyrinthine depths of the archives themselves, as her near-perfect memory allow her to effortlessly track down every book currently in the collection.

Szid Dustmark, Curator of artifice
Little is known about Szid's history. The kobold arrived at the campus one day, walked into an artificer's workshop and casually corrected an incredibly complicated enchantment the artificer had been working on for weeks. Szid speaks very little, and spends most of his time holed up in his small office, working on the most wondrous designs, though many of them are too complicated for anyone else but him to implement, and he rarely turns his designs into reality. Nevertheless, many improvements in the field of artifice and enchantment have been made through decoding the diminutive kobold's designs, even if the full extend of his work is still beyond the understanding of most in his field.



Raimel Tarian
Raimel is the current emperor, and like the rest of the Tarian dynasty he's a half-elf. He finished the unification of the empire in his youth after the death of his father in battle, and has ruled (mostly, there where a couple of rebellions in his early reign) in peace. He's well liked among the general populace as a fair and reasonably generous ruler, and he's respected among the Nobles as a just arbiter of conflicts, as well as feared for being a ferocious general. However, there are rumours at court that the now venerable emperor's mind is slowly starting to fail, and a variety of nobles are looking to try to take advantage of this.

Isalar Tarian
Isalar is the emperor's grand-daughter and heir. She grew up on the frontier, but has recently been called to the Empire's capital of Vaungate. She's still something of a wild-card at court, generally keeping to herself, but those that have had cause to deal with her talk about her cunning intellect and sharp wits.

The government
Though the emperor is of course the leader of the empire, he does very little direct governing. Most of this is handled by the layers of Dukes, earls and barons below him. The emperor primarily issues general orders and edicts that the nobles need to execute, and handles disputes between nobles. Though the dukes have estates in the capital and spend at least several months each year at the court themselves, most of the other nobles are spread across the empire, governing their land in accordance with the emperor's laws and wishes, but having a reasonable amount of freedom with regards to how they implement the emperor's will. Some rule alone and with an iron fist, while others have instituted councils of influential citizens to aid with their decision making. Some Nobles are well-liked, others are miniature tyrants only barely kept in check by the empire's laws.

Vaungate
Vaungate is the empire's capital, and a massive city with a population just in excess of 1 million citizens. Though many of its citizens are affluent, there are some poorer slums in the citys outskirts. The city itself houses many vaunted institutions, such as the Artificery Society, the Temple Conclave, the High Tribunal and the headquarters of the Ranger's guild (think a cross between an adventurer's guild and an empire-wide police force). And of course at the centre of the city lies the emperor's cout and the estates of the high Nobles that directly attend him.

The Artificery Society campus
The artificery society occupies a large campus on the city's outskirts. Within the campus are workshops, libraries, dormitories, observatories, lecture halls and all the other buildings needed to keep an institute of science and learning running. Technically outside of the campus, but considered part of it are the personal workshops and residences of the more influential members of the society. The campus is bustling and busy at all times of the day, alive with the hammering of forges, the trundling of waterwheels and the crackle of magical contraptions as the members of the society ply their trade.

Right outside the campus is a bustling entertainment district as well, where the students that come to study under the teachers of the society congregate during their free time.

The harbor district
The harbor district is home to one of the largest markets in the city, where exotic goods from all voer the empire and beyond are traded. Here one can find anything from fish to spices to exotic animals to rare metals. It is often said that if you cannot find it in this market, it does not exist. Clustered around the market are the offices of a number of 'acquisitions firms', Merchants specializing in finding rare and exotic goods for their clients, primarily Nobles, but also the occasional artificer.

races in the empire
Humans and half-humans (half-elves, half-orcs) make up a significant portion, with the other core races (Elves, dwarves, gnomes) having significant populations as well. Anything else is rarer. Though an attempt has been made and is being made to culturally integrate everyone, there are differences based on the area's people hail from, though differences based purely on race are rarer, as the various races often intermingled in the smaller kingdoms and fiefdoms before the current empire took over.

However, the dwarves in particular make up significant sub-cultures with their own set of habits and unspoken rules because most dwarven clans got integrated in the empire through rather favorable treaties, rather than conquest. Most emperors during the age of conquest had the wise response of 'Yeah, screw that' when confronted with the prospect of laying siege to a dwarven hold, while most dwarven clans understood that it'd be best to learn to live and deal with the sprawling empire that now surrounded their mountain homes.


IC thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?625943-The-Royal-Artificery-Society-IC

[WindStruck]

Not sure if I should be putting my post in spoilers, especially considering how long it is, and how it probably doesn't relate to anyone else's character.

But let me know!

[DeTess]

Not sure if I should be putting my post in spoilers, especially considering how long it is, and how it probably doesn't relate to anyone else's character.

But let me know!

It's no problem. Also, could you roll me a perception?

[WindStruck]

Certainly!

[roll0]

[Sønderjye]

Fortune favoured the crafty!

Now that we're all in, would anyone be interested in having some shared background? I imagine that this game will end up being fairly individualistic so having some buddies to reach for when we need help could be a good way to interact with each other.

@DeTess, later I'll be looking at making more grafts and I got the impression from the custom magic item process you wanted us to come up with things that could believably work. I figure this is as good time as any to talk about biology in a magical setting. In case you're not feeling inspired for anything in particular I'll include my thoughts on a possible systems below.

A major thing in the systems is that 'most' magics we see are capped at a certain number of times per day requiring rest. That to me implies that magical beings store quantities of magic in their body in a process that happens while one is resting.
I think the smoothest source of magic would be that magic exists somewher external(like the weave) since that gives an easy explanation to why some spells last longer than others(part of the spell matrix draws energy from the weave to sustain itself), why some being have permanent magical effects on them(they have organs that continually draw from a very specific part of the weave), why some abilities are i.e. 1/week(the organs used to channel the magic draw energy slower).


I'm also realizing that I didn't see the replies after WindStruck's first post. Should I change location or is it fine that two things happened the same area?

Storing ideas for later. Don't steal plz.

Magical item that converts waste into food
Aging slower.
- Draws on restoration energy to repair he minor damages that upon accumulation causes aging
- Creme that like that other creme extends lifetime.
Sympathetic bags:
- Teleports things from bag to the other
- Conjures copies from one bag into another.
Water cleaner.
Oathbinding

Mind stuff:
- Remove and store memories in device. Experiment if temporary removal of relevant memories removes skills.
- Look at memories in device. Evt look through in incredible speed.
- Rather than look at memories, directly implant them into head to gain skills.
- What happens if all memories are Does transfering all memories constitute the same self?

- Alchemically treated brain store
- Lock memories away until some trigger
-
Pensieve

Magic detection (already made)
- Something that boosts kno arcane to get magic detection to work.
Detective aid.
Magic item crafting detection. As magic detection but for created item.



Designs

Flæsk with psionic krystal that egen activated transfers memory og an event or topic to vial content. Can be consumed to gain memory. Probably internal memory.
Variant removes insteadof copies
Variant does the same but for knowledge
Variant does same but for all memory of a topic

Memory:

Crystal that can be pinged x/day to get a feeling of what the content of memory is
(set of) crystal that can get memory from crystal, can store many memories, and can copy it to crystal.
Find a way to extract information from memories. Divination magic to identify the information in memory.
Modifier(pre reconstruction) to edit the memory
Modifer(real time) to play back, fast forward, pause, and such.

Commercial uses:
- Entertainment: i.e. sex, adventurers amazing environments, dragon fights, relive own old memories, pleasurable moments, pleasurable mindstates.
- Skill copying: Need:
- A way to extract skills from memories or condense memories down into the essential parts. Divination to identify skill based parts?
- Need a way to clear space for those memories
- Need a way to integrate the memories with the existing mindspace, maybe take inspiration from potion to grow connections?

Current batch:
Design 1a: A big blue crystal that are able to copy memories from other crystals into it for storage, able to copy memories stored in it into other memory crystals(henceforth refered to as mnemonic crystals), and able to delete some memories stored in it to get more space. It can copy a memory, either from a crystal into storage or from storage into the crystal, once every 5 minutes. It is also capable of overwriting memories in existing memory crystal
Design 1b: As above but instead of one big crystal it's multiple interconnected crystals.
Results: Feasible with b being cheaper and more complicated. Need to think of a specific way to copy memories. Idea: use psionics to create sensations and play all senses to load memory.

Design 2a: A magical lense that allow a user that currently is experiencing a memory from a memory crystal to change the process of that experience. They can speed up, slow down, pause, skip, decrease and increase the detail(i.e. to reduce sensory stress) both of the overall experience and of specific parts.
Results: Doable for everything except skipping. While skipping is possible, it's hard to judge how far into future skips to.
Design 2b: As 2a except it allows the editing of a memory that is currently stored in a memory crystal.
Result: Possible but making the edited version look believable/continuous is hard.

Design 3a: A device that is attuned to a specific skill upon creation. It is able to scan memories stored in mnemonic crystals and uses clairsentience to identify which part of the memory that are relevant to the attuned skill. Can be used along with 2b to edit a memory down to a memory that only contains important knowledge about some skill.
Results: ?? Might need a way to how it does the identification?
Design 3b: As 3a however instead of searching a memory in a memory crystal it searches for important memories in the mindscape of a person.
Result: Theoretically possible. But mind is vast and can't search the entirety.


Next batch:
Design 1: A device that created null memories in the mindscape of a person. Null memories doesn't contain any knowledge or information, and are very resistant to connections however they take up space in the mindscape. As they take up space the mind can be stretched by filling it up with Null memories which (hopefully) will be able to expand it over time. Overfilling the brain with Null Memories can rapture the mind and since Null Memories take up space they might prevent the formation of new long term memories.
Design 2: Decay accelerator: Can target specific memorie(s) and greatly increase the rate of the natural forgetting process. Once activated it must remain in the possession of the user for a week, at the end of which the memories and their associated connections have decayed fully.
Design 3: Implant memories stored into a memory crystal directly into the mindscape.

[Armonia13]

Fortune favoured the crafty!

Now that we're all in, would anyone be interested in having some shared background? I imagine that this game will end up being fairly individualistic so having some buddies to reach for when we need help could be a good way to interact with each other.

@DeTess, later I'll be looking at making more grafts and I got the impression from the custom magic item process you wanted us to come up with things that could believably work. I figure this is as good time as any to talk about biology in a magical setting. In case you're not feeling inspired for anything in particular I'll include my thoughts on a possible systems below.

A major thing in the systems is that 'most' magics we see are capped at a certain number of times per day requiring rest. That to me implies that magical beings store quantities of magic in their body in a process that happens while one is resting.
I think the smoothest source of magic would be that magic exists somewher external(like the weave) since that gives an easy explanation to why some spells last longer than others(part of the spell matrix draws energy from the weave to sustain itself), why some being have permanent magical effects on them(they have organs that continually draw from a very specific part of the weave), why some abilities are i.e. 1/week(the organs used to channel the magic draw energy slower).


I'm also realizing that I didn't see the replies after WindStruck's first post. Should I change location or is it fine that two things happened the same area?

Did you have your own place? If not, wanna be dorm mates? Assuming you wouldn't mind bunking with a kid filled with tons of useful knowledge

EDIT: Also I'll take green voice

[WindStruck]

tbh, it probably would have been better to make up your own locale to avoid little discrepancies, unless you had the intent of interacting with Shandara in some way.

But still no harm, so it's okay if your character was briefly at Jullieane's Brew.

Also, not sure if there is any good way to tie in a background between Shandara and Z. I don't think she'd be buying any of the stuff he sells, for one thing. So then it may be a question of if they collaborated on something. Common fields seeming to be alchemy, jewelcrafting, and arcana.

I rather liked Prehysterical's idea of that Mandatory Collaboration program.

[DeTess]

Now that we're all in, would anyone be interested in having some shared background? I imagine that this game will end up being fairly individualistic so having some buddies to reach for when we need help could be a good way to interact with each other.


To just make a quick note of on this, all of you at the very least know of one another, and you've probably collaborated in some minor way in the past at the very least. That way, if any PC needs help with something that another PC could help with, they'd know they can approach them.



@DeTess, later I'll be looking at making more grafts and I got the impression from the custom magic item process you wanted us to come up with things that could believably work. I figure this is as good time as any to talk about biology in a magical setting. In case you're not feeling inspired for anything in particular I'll include my thoughts on a possible systems below.

A major thing in the systems is that 'most' magics we see are capped at a certain number of times per day requiring rest. That to me implies that magical beings store quantities of magic in their body in a process that happens while one is resting.
I think the smoothest source of magic would be that magic exists somewher external(like the weave) since that gives an easy explanation to why some spells last longer than others(part of the spell matrix draws energy from the weave to sustain itself), why some being have permanent magical effects on them(they have organs that continually draw from a very specific part of the weave), why some abilities are i.e. 1/week(the organs used to channel the magic draw energy slower).


Most of this makes sense, and what you describe here is generally the leading theory. Also a quick note on time-scales, for gameplay reasons spells and abilities have very strictly set periods, but research would show that the recharge rate is a bit more variable than strictly 1/day or 1/week or whatever (some individuals might recharge things a bit faster, others a bit slower, 1/day or 1/week or whatever is the general average).



I'm also realizing that I didn't see the replies after WindStruck's first post. Should I change location or is it fine that two things happened the same area?

Two things happening in the same area is fine, I'll edit my description of the other people present I gave Shandara in a bit to include you.

Edit: @windstruck, could you roll me a sense motive?

[DeTess]

Oh, and before I forget, a quick dice-roll for reasons [roll0]

[WindStruck]

I'll roll that sense motive. Though things are so suspicious at this point, my opinions probably are not going to be swayed. :smalltongue:

sense motive: [roll0]

[DeTess]

I'll roll that sense motive. Though things are so suspicious at this point, my opinions probably are not going to be swayed. :smalltongue:

sense motive: [roll0]

Yeah, he's being really shady. He seems like a smooth talker and eh sounds genuine, but to say his behavior is 'off' would be putting it mildly.

[WindStruck]

Yep, already made what I think would be an appropriate IC response, regardless.


To just make a quick note of on this, all of you at the very least know of one another, and you've probably collaborated in some minor way in the past at the very least. That way, if any PC needs help with something that another PC could help with, they'd know they can approach them.

And this is good. I'm glad we'll at least know of each other. Should make things less contrived, and hopefully less awkward!

[Prehysterical]

Bolten will speak in Blue.

And thanks for picking this game up, DeTess!

[Sønderjye]

@Armonia, Z does have his own place. I see that you have a lot of knowledge skills though so my character might have reached out to yours to talk about various abilities of magical creatures?

@WindStruck, My idea was to provide a clue to your character about some of the secrets of my character, so that there might later be some reason for you to know that something is up. I don't think there was any discrepency from your posts, though I see some from the post that DeTess made. Would you rather that I move it somewhere else?
For shared BG I like the idea of having done a previous alchemy project together.

@DeTess, I like the note about people knowing each other.
Sounds good to me about biological magic. I'll probably ask more questions later. What are the leading/competing theories of where magic is drawn from?

[WindStruck]

@WindStruck, My idea was to provide a clue to your character about some of the secrets of my character, so that there might later be some reason for you to know that something is up. I don't think there was any discrepency from your posts, though I see some from the post that DeTess made. Would you rather that I move it somewhere else?
For shared BG I like the idea of having done a previous alchemy project together.

I think you may as well just leave it as is.

Though from the way it was written, I don't think Shandara would have been clued into your dealings, given how discreet Z was already trying to be.

On the other hand, we can wave all those concerns away, since we're already supposed to know each other somewhat.

[DeTess]

@DeTess, I like the note about people knowing each other.
Sounds good to me about biological magic. I'll probably ask more questions later. What are the leading/competing theories of where magic is drawn from?

There's three main theories:


Divine origin: all magic, even so-called 'arcane' magic is granted directly by one or more gods to those they think deserving, or even just interesting. Advantages of this theory: It's really hard to prove wrong. Disadvantages: saying 'the gods did it' isn't particularly good science.
Life origin: All living beings generate magical energy. Some use this energy themselves, other merely make it available for others to use. Advantages: it explains how creatures have a limited amount of magical 'stamina', and why some areas tend to be more magical than others. Disadvantages: one would expect it to be harder to use magic in the desert, or far out in the ocean, but this is generally not the case.
The background magic field: There's a world spanning web of magical energy that every caster and magical creature draws on to cast their magic. Advantages: It explains why it is easier to cast magic at some times and in some places than in others, and it matches observations that working a lot of magic in the same location in short succession can make further castings progressively more difficult. Disadvantages: It doesn't explain that much more than the 1st theory. It sounds more scientific, but no clear cause for this field (if it exists) has, as of yet, been discovered.

[Armonia13]

@PMSønderjye He would definitely be able to help with that, so sure!
@DeTess Would I need to roll to see if I know where Meredith Dockson lives?
Edit: Also, what kind of ships are we working with here? We talking Galleons and sloops or are engines a common thing?

[WindStruck]

I'm about to bump into Bolten, if that's alright, though there doesn't have to be any significant interaction.

Also, since we have known each other briefly and probably did collaborate on something or the other, I am liking the idea of a bejeweled clock or otherwise, jeweled clockwork thing.

[DeTess]

@DeTess Would I need to roll to see if I know where Meredith Dockson lives?
Edit: Also, what kind of ships are we working with here? We talking Galleons and sloops or are engines a common thing?


Unless she's putting in an effort to hide (which she doesn't seem to be), it shouldn't be a problem to find her.

Regarding the ships, it's still solidly the age of sail, so galleons, sloops and the like. Engines aren't really a thing yet.

[WindStruck]

That's fine, but is she going to the Curator of Engineering workshop or is she going to run into him on his way home? And the jeweled clock is a past project, right?

She'll be at the Curator's workshop.

And yes, I'm talking about a past project. Unless, for whatever reason, you'd rather have it as a concurrent thing....

[DeTess]

@windstruck, the maps here at the workshop is the same map mentioned on the board, just in more detail, and with take-home copies for those interested.

[WindStruck]

Guess I wasn't clear...

There's the map of the Stormdrain district. And the other 'map' I was referring to was the Curator's actual sewer system plans. I wanted to compare those two things.

Oh, and the board I was referring to. I was thinking her plans were pinned up on a board in her office for all to see - but not to copy or take.

[DeTess]

Guess I wasn't clear...

There's a 'map' map that's the map of the Stormdrain district. And the other map I was referring to was the Curator's actual sewer system plans.

Ah, sorry. Those are actually overlaid on eachother (so the sewer system is drawn in a different color ink on the district map). The main pipes try to stick to the main roads, but there isn't really such a thing in the Stormdrain district, so it's mostly a grid that partly matches the streets where possible, but that does cover the entire district.

[Sønderjye]

I think you may as well just leave it as is.

Though from the way it was written, I don't think Shandara would have been clued into your dealings, given how discreet Z was already trying to be.

On the other hand, we can wave all those concerns away, since we're already supposed to know each other somewhat.

Z has +2 to bluff :P But you'll choose

@DeTess, thanks, I'll keep that in mind!

[Sønderjye]

What process of inventing things are we going for? I don't think there's precident for a treatment that always cures a specific disease so I am imagining something along the lines of combining Antiplague (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances/#Antiplague) with a few boosts to fort against diseases. Am I on the right track with that?

What's the process for learning about a disease? I am a little fuzzy on how to figure out what the mechanics and the DC is other than finding a knowledgable NPC and asking them. Can we walk around and examine different victims, and eventually get the facts assuming we don't ourselves get infected? I imagine that a double blind study accounting for counterfactuals and cofounders is a little too advanced for the current tech level.

@Armonia13, looking to have a chat with your character since your character might know more about what could or could not work against an unknown disease. How do you prefer to handle that IC? I just made a post knocking on your dorm?

[DeTess]

What process of inventing things are we going for? I don't think there's precident for a treatment that always cures a specific disease so I am imagining something along the lines of combining Antiplague (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipmenT/goods-and-services/herbs-oils-other-substances/#Antiplague) with a few boosts to fort against diseases. Am I on the right track with that?


That can definitely help. Another part will be treating the symptoms. Finding herbs and other substances that can help against the disease's symptoms could help with creating a treatment that's particularly effective, though finding a way to combine those without them losing effectiveness or getting nasty side effects will be a significant part of the challenge.



What's the process for learning about a disease? I am a little fuzzy on how to figure out what the mechanics and the DC is other than finding a knowledgable NPC and asking them. Can we walk around and examine different victims, and eventually get the facts assuming we don't ourselves get infected? I imagine that a double blind study accounting for counterfactuals and cofounders is a little too advanced for the current tech level.



I'd say you could use a heal or knowledge(nature) check when studying victims of the disease to try and get a proper feel for what it does and how it affects people (and therefore what you need to do something about), and talking to a knowledgeable NPC is always a good idea. The setting is still a couple of steps of development away from proper double-blind studies and vaccines and the like. A treatment either helps a significant portion of those affected, or it doesn't, the testing fase generally consists of checking that your concoction doesn't have any (immediately apparent) problematic side effects, and that it does what it needs to do.

Also, can I just say that I already hate Ronce? He's just so slimy. So if you ever want to try and do something about him, I'm all for it :P

@Prehysterical I love your design idea so far! Something to keep in mind though is that there's currently a bit of a shortage in adamantium (I mentioned that earlier in the rumour department, but forgot to mention it in the IC thread, but there's a slight shortage of mythril and adamantium due to a supply issue), which would have been especially problematic with your first design, but shouldn't be as much of an issue with the second.

[Prehysterical]

Glad to hear it. I do have some long-term questions, though.

In a game like this, especially with project deadlines like the sewer project, the amount of time it takes to craft something is very relevant. How are we going to handle timeframes for designing schematics? Depending on the size (like a drill big enough to carve out tunnels for large sewer pipes), the amount of detail they require will be monstrous. So, how do we determine how much time it takes for Bolten to come up with something like that? A few days? Do I just make a Craft (clockwork) check for the design or would I use Knowledge (engineering)?

Also, do I as the player have to come up with a gold cost for something unprecedented like this? Without knowing the exact dimensions of the sewer sizing, it's very hard to price materials.

[DeTess]

Glad to hear it. I do have some long-term questions, though.

In a game like this, especially with project deadlines like the sewer project, the amount of time it takes to craft something is very relevant. How are we going to handle timeframes for designing schematics? Depending on the size (like a drill big enough to carve out tunnels for large sewer pipes), the amount of detail they require will be monstrous. So, how do we determine how much time it takes for Bolten to come up with something like that? A few days? Do I just make a Craft (clockwork) check for the design or would I use Knowledge (engineering)?

Also, do I as the player have to come up with a gold cost for something unprecedented like this? Without knowing the exact dimensions of the sewer sizing, it's very hard to price materials.

Making a full design would be done with a craft check. The amount of time it takes does depend on the project, as well as how innovative you're being. I'd say a design like the one you're working on right now would take somewhere from 4-7 days to complete (in part based on your check, and you'd have a bit of free time for social stuff during that period as well). Your check would primarily decide the time it takes to complete, and how many lingering unexpected issues your prototype design would have that you'd need to find further solutions for.

I'll generally handle pricing (which is partly based on the kind of materials, partly on what a similar item would cost, partly on what seems right). You generally wouldn't have to pay for a full-size version yourself for a project like this (unless you want a spare for personal use, of course :P). You'd generally show a smaller scale model or proof of concept in addition to your designs, and if that's convincing the cost-side will be handled by whoever commissioned the project.

[Prehysterical]

Sounds sensible. Here is the Craft (clockwork) check for the schematic: [roll0]

...I think Bolten has a promising future in the Society. :smallbiggrin:

[Armonia13]

@Armonia13, looking to have a chat with your character since your character might know more about what could or could not work against an unknown disease. How do you prefer to handle that IC? I just made a post knocking on your dorm?

There are two places he can typically be found, his dorm room or the Great Archive. I'll get a post up about him going back to his room to start on his ship ideas in a bit, I'm spending a little bit of time with my family right now and will be able to soon

Edit: Sweet! A 27 should give him more than enough knowledge on ships to have an idea of a new design, right?

[WindStruck]

That is quite a legendary roll from Bolten... I'm sure he will do well. Until problems arise, as was mentioned could happen before!

Zeal's post is.. amazing, haha! Adorable and makes me want to chuckle. Up until the point where the plague doctor costume scares everyone away!

[Sønderjye]

That can definitely help. Another part will be treating the symptoms. Finding herbs and other substances that can help against the disease's symptoms could help with creating a treatment that's particularly effective, though finding a way to combine those without them losing effectiveness or getting nasty side effects will be a significant part of the challenge.

So adding ingredients that gives bonuses against the symptoms makes a treatment more potent against that disease? In other alchemical concoctions, what usually keeps things together, makes it so they don't lose effectiveness, and avoids side effects?


I'd say you could use a heal or knowledge(nature) check when studying victims of the disease to try and get a proper feel for what it does and how it affects people (and therefore what you need to do something about), and talking to a knowledgeable NPC is always a good idea. The setting is still a couple of steps of development away from proper double-blind studies and vaccines and the like. A treatment either helps a significant portion of those affected, or it doesn't, the testing fase generally consists of checking that your concoction doesn't have any (immediately apparent) problematic side effects, and that it does what it needs to do.

Ah cool, perfect.


Also, can I just say that I already hate Ronce? He's just so slimy. So if you ever want to try and do something about him, I'm all for it :P

Haha, I feel like you're really playing him well. Doing something about him is definitely on the table for later but I'll need to be good enough to get by without him first :P

@Armonia13, I made a post just now and will go to bed soon. I wasn't sure if you just wanted to do your own thing for now so if that's the case just let me know and we'll use the alternative scene I have in the IC spoilers.

@Prehysterical, I just had a thought for later. Clockwork grafts would be really neat.

[Prehysterical]

It's funny because clockwork prosthetics are already a thing. (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/c-d/clockwork-prosthesis/)

[Armonia13]

@Armonia13, I made a post just now and will go to bed soon. I wasn't sure if you just wanted to do your own thing for now so if that's the case just let me know and we'll use the alternative scene I have in the IC spoilers.

Already posted a response :)

[Elbeyon]

Zeal's post is.. amazing, haha! Adorable and makes me want to chuckle. Up until the point where the plague doctor costume scares everyone away!Thanks! I'm already liking Zeal! Do you think a wide brimmed hat would help cut the intimation factor? P:

I really enjoyed all your posts! It was hard to write my own because I kept wanting to read everyone's post xD What's going on with the half-orc!? That was scary when he just dodged Shandara and left. I love your coffee shop too! Zeal will visit there one day!

[pi4t]

Oh, gosh, this has moved quickly! Sorry, today is the day I GM a game in person, and the day just got away from me.

Is it OK to start working on a position that someone else has already "claimed"?

[WindStruck]

You mean the notices on the board? I think it's fine if you work on whatever. I mean, nothing wrong with competing designs, that's just how the world works..

It might not hurt to reach out to collaborate, though.

edit: so I've made my first "crafting" roll. I'll wait to see what those results mean, if anything, but I think if I want to keep pursuing this idea, I'd probably need to either head to a library, or Shandara could go review her book repository at her home first...

[Elbeyon]

Now Shandara is thinking with portals.

The commissions on the board are open commissions. I certainly don't mind ooc.

Shandara & Bolten are working on the "Draining the Stormdrains" commission.
Xavier is working on the "Streidekker and Sons, Shipwrights" commission.
Z & Zeal are working on the "Treatment" commission.

Zeal is also interested in the minor harvest festival, shipwright, and bank commissions! She is very unprepared to do the bank commission currently, but I'd like her to attempt it even if she fails to break in.

[DeTess]

@Elbeyon, I loved your post for Zeal, it had me smiling and laughing all the way through



Edit: Sweet! A 27 should give him more than enough knowledge on ships to have an idea of a new design, right?

It'd take a bit more time to study to really get going (as Z dropped in before you'd gotten much further than the preliminaries), but you've already got a decent idea for the two directions you could take it in. Ship design always goes in two, mutually exclusive, directions, being for faster ships and bigger ships. Faster ships a are needed for the quick transport of people, or large amounts of documents, or valuable goods, while bigger ships are for transport of stuff in bulk. You've got some starting ideas for both, but you'd need more time to work on that.


So adding ingredients that gives bonuses against the symptoms makes a treatment more potent against that disease? In other alchemical concoctions, what usually keeps things together, makes it so they don't lose effectiveness, and avoids side effects?


Depends on what you're making. there's a variety of substances that can act as an 'emulsifier' of sorts. Your character would probably know that for applications in the field of medicine and treating diseases a mix of fish oil and lime juice is often used (and yes, that tastes exactly as revolting as it sounds), but there might be other options as well (purified alcohol is used sometimes as well, for example, but that's only an option if you've got a number of other liquid ingredients to dillute the alcohol enough, but not so many that the alcohol loses its effects)


edit: so I've made my first "crafting" roll. I'll wait to see what those results mean, if anything, but I think if I want to keep pursuing this idea, I'd probably need to either head to a library, or Shandara could go review her book repository at her home first...

Right, as you suspected, direct teleportation magic requires just way too much power to be practical. A 'summon sewage' effect might work, but the reduction in energy cost for most summon effects is due in large part to the fact that you're nor targeting particularly precisely (or at all, apart from the kind of thing you're summoning), so you might end up getting sewage from another district if you can't find a way to constrain that. however, you've also heard some discussion among the Artificers about a new enchantment designed by their Curator that should, theorethically, allow the internal spaces of two bags of holding to be connected, allowing items to be put in one bag to be retrieved with the other. However, as with all the Curators designs, its an incredibly complex enchantment, and you'd probably need to do some adaptations to adapt it for the sewer system as well, so it's definitely a challenge, but might be the perfect solution.

@Prehysterical, Yeah, your design is coming along beautifully. You'll even find time to make a quick proof of concept of the interlinked smaller drillbits to show, and you've figured out a way to keep the drill going nice and straight using a gyroscope system. It'll still take you about 4 days to finish the design and the prototype/proof of concept, but your character can feel pretty confident about their progress.

[WindStruck]

Cool! And that was with a somewhat lowish roll (below 10) and without a library bonus. Think I could definitely make another roll to design proofs of concept for that.

I'm guessing knowledge (arcana) just to prove it should be possible within a limit of level 2 or 3 spells, and a spellcraft roll for.. I'd guess.. "psuedocode" in programming lingo for the worst rolls, or a prototype.

The curator you mentioned that connected two bags of holding, is that Szid? And do you know if he'd be available? (perhaps later in the evening that day, or some other day)

[DeTess]

The curator you mentioned that connected two bags of holding, is that Szid? And do you know if he'd be available? (perhaps later in the evening that day, or some other day)

Yeah, that's Szid. He's not generally personally available. You can try, but he seems to be very particular about who he meets in person. You can drop by his study and knock on the door, but it's rare for him to actually invite anyone in. His designs are however available to be perused in the archives.

[Sønderjye]

@Prehysterical, Hah, that's great. I don' imagine that those prostethics are useful to the average citizen though, I'm sure we can think of something better.

@pi4t, I don't think that anybody can put exclusive claims on anything. Feel free to do whatever you think would be fun.

[pi4t]

How much would it cost to make a very small (say 1 inch across) floating disc? And a similar sized web shelter? For proof of concept purposes.

[DeTess]

@windstruck

Making a spell that just transports sewage isn't the most difficult. Getting it to only take sewage from those areas you want to take it from is however pretty difficult. There are two main methods currently in use. The easier enchantment is to use secondary enchantments placed at the boundary of where you want your enchantment to take effect, but such boundary enchantments would have to be placed fairly close together (within 5 meters with most well-documented techniques) to actually work, which means you're really only moving the infrastructure issue around (though since the boundary enchantments could be placed on ground-level, you're at least making things a bit easier). You could define the area within the enchantment itself, but that's a lot more difficult, both because you'd need the exact position of each enchantment, and because defining distances is actually pretty difficult when making an enchantment. For this reason most enchantments either use 'here' as it's location of effect, or a direction to throw it's effect in (which wouldn't be useful in this case, because such effects are generally designed to stop on the first solid surface they hit, and without that limitation they'd just keep going forever).

Another issue you'll have to contend with is a way to power the enchantment so that it keeps going for a long time without maintenance, as the pipes themselves would be fairly inaccessible. You could do this by just pumping a lot of power into each enchantment, which means you'd need a lot of mages, or some fairly expensive foci to place the enchantments. You could also try adding tot eh enchantments so that they can run on 'ambient' magic, but that'd be another addition to an already complex enchantment. You could also see about capturing a magical creature to run the enchantments. For something like this a water elemental might work best, but such creatures aren't exactly easy to come by, and convincing them to work with you is fairly difficult a well.

[DeTess]

How much would it cost to make a very small (say 1 inch across) floating disc? And a similar sized web shelter? For proof of concept purposes.

Depends on the exact way you'd want to go about it. The simplest way to do this would probably be to inscribe a small gemstone or another material that can hold magical power with your enchantments (probably about 15 gp in material for the size you describe), which could run those spells together for quite a long time without needing to be recharged, but this'd also scale pretty poorly depending on how large you'd want the actual product to be.

How large would the final product have to be?

[pi4t]

Depends on the exact way you'd want to go about it. The simplest way to do this would probably be to inscribe a small gemstone or another material that can hold magical power with your enchantments (probably about 15 gp in material for the size you describe), which could run those spells together for quite a long time without needing to be recharged, but this'd also scale pretty poorly depending on how large you'd want the actual product to be.

How large would the final product have to be?

Around the size of the normal spells, though it would depend on how large the shipyards would want them to be.

Meredith is thinking of making a submarine. I'm not quite sure what I ought to be describing in terms of my design, or how practical a given design would be in terms of cost - the pricing guidelines are rather vague when it comes to any "interesting" items. The only information I have is some sample things which can be done with magic, namely all the low-level spells. I've therefore been figuring out what elements a submarine would need, which couldn't easily be provided without magic, and working out how powerful a magic effect would be necessary to supply that.

Anyway, the design I'm thinking of would need the following components:
A lightweight, watertight barrier - the spell Web Shelter seems to be the lowest level spell that gives this.
A supply of conjured breathable air (and a way to get rid of the excess CO2) - Air Bubble is a first level spell which provides something like this.
Some way of moving up and down - Levitate seems like the obvious way to do this, and it's canonically possible to get an at-will levitation effect on a person fairly cheaply (boots of levitation, 7500gp market price). Of course, I'd be wanting to levitate the whole ship rather than just one person, increasing the cost - but it would also only need to levitate through water rather than through the air, which will require less force and hopefully reduce the cost down again.
Some way of moving horizontally - Floating disk is a first level spell that provides exclusively horizontal movement. It's supposed to stay a fixed distance from the ground, but it seems reasonable to make a version that stays a fixed distance from the bottom of the submarine - and then just hold the submarine in place vertically using the levitate effect.

By combining these spells, it seems obvious it should be possible to make a submarine. I have no real idea if this is the most efficient method, or how much the final result would cost, though. Or how much the shipyard would be prepared to pay, for that matter.

Is this a sensible way of designing our magic items, or would you prefer I take a different approach?

[Armonia13]

It'd take a bit more time to study to really get going (as Z dropped in before you'd gotten much further than the preliminaries), but you've already got a decent idea for the two directions you could take it in. Ship design always goes in two, mutually exclusive, directions, being for faster ships and bigger ships. Faster ships a are needed for the quick transport of people, or large amounts of documents, or valuable goods, while bigger ships are for transport of stuff in bulk. You've got some starting ideas for both, but you'd need more time to work on that.


I definitely know what I'm going for when I get back to it! It might be manual to start, but I'm gonna aim to make a paddle wheel system to act as a supplement to sail ships.

[DeTess]

Around the size of the normal spells, though it would depend on how large the shipyards would want them to be.

Meredith is thinking of making a submarine. I'm not quite sure what I ought to be describing in terms of my design, or how practical a given design would be in terms of cost - the pricing guidelines are rather vague when it comes to any "interesting" items. The only information I have is some sample things which can be done with magic, namely all the low-level spells. I've therefore been figuring out what elements a submarine would need, which couldn't easily be provided without magic, and working out how powerful a magic effect would be necessary to supply that.

Anyway, the design I'm thinking of would need the following components:
A lightweight, watertight barrier - the spell Web Shelter seems to be the lowest level spell that gives this.
A supply of conjured breathable air (and a way to get rid of the excess CO2) - Air Bubble is a first level spell which provides something like this.
Some way of moving up and down - Levitate seems like the obvious way to do this, and it's canonically possible to get an at-will levitation effect on a person fairly cheaply (boots of levitation, 7500gp market price). Of course, I'd be wanting to levitate the whole ship rather than just one person, increasing the cost - but it would also only need to levitate through water rather than through the air, which will require less force and hopefully reduce the cost down again.
Some way of moving horizontally - Floating disk is a first level spell that provides exclusively horizontal movement. It's supposed to stay a fixed distance from the ground, but it seems reasonable to make a version that stays a fixed distance from the bottom of the submarine - and then just hold the submarine in place vertically using the levitate effect.

By combining these spells, it seems obvious it should be possible to make a submarine. I have no real idea if this is the most efficient method, or how much the final result would cost, though. Or how much the shipyard would be prepared to pay, for that matter.

Is this a sensible way of designing our magic items, or would you prefer I take a different approach?

It's one way to approach it. Thinking of it in terms of what you need to get the effect you want is a good one, but you don't necessarily need to think of it in terms of canon spells. It could be done the way you describe, though it would probably be more efficient to just enchant a woord or metal construction to make it completely watertight. A permanent air bubble effect is definitely a good way to do the air-refreshing, and while you could do depth-regulation with levitate, you could also focus on making the ship neutrally buoyant, and having a mechanical system regulate depth (though that wouldn't necessarily be more efficient than a levitate effect enhanced to affect the entire ship). The biggest challenge would probably be to design a method of propulsion that works without wind or oars.

[Armonia13]

Is the protection the doctor is providing those pendants of Sarenrae that you mentioned in Zeal's hospital trip?

[DeTess]

Is the protection the doctor is providing those pendants of Sarenrae that you mentioned in Zeal's hospital trip?

As a matter of fact, yes :P They're a pendant made form that fancy metal Z mentioned either with a small blessing on them.

[Armonia13]

As a matter of fact, yes :P They're a pendant made form that fancy metal Z mentioned either with a small blessing on them.

Good, I could use any help that I can get 😅

[WindStruck]

So... none of the things I have listed were addressed, save for the thing about boundaries.

Are you saying everything else is impossible? Like, you can't even have a summoning spell that summons an object, but only if that object is within X meters?

Actually, I believe I've heard of such a spell, but I can't think of what it is on the top of my head.

[Armonia13]

So... none of the things I have listed were addressed, save for the thing about boundaries.

Are you saying everything else is impossible? Like, you can't even have a summoning spell that summons an object, but only if that object is within X meters?

Actually, I believe I've heard of such a spell, but I can't think of what it is on the top of my head.

If I may give my opinion, I think it is less about possibility and more about how you could make it work. There are theoretically various ways you can manipulate many if the concerns you listed in your post. For example, range could be mitigated by overlaying multiple castings, making sort of a magical tunnel. Volume and weight could be affected by various focusing components. You could study offshoots of various spells in order to tweak them slightly for your purposes. Like, you could use Apport Object (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/apport-object/) as a base figure out a way to bypass the Touch requirement(maybe an engraved magic circle?)

[DeTess]

So... none of the things I have listed were addressed, save for the thing about boundaries.

Are you saying everything else is impossible? Like, you can't even have a summoning spell that summons an object, but only if that object is within X meters?

Actually, I believe I've heard of such a spell, but I can't think of what it is on the top of my head.

Sorry, my bad, I wasn't clear here. You can have a summoning spell that summons an object with a certain distance, but it's a more complicated enchantment than a summoning spell that summons an object, and also more complicated than 'within these boundaries', especially since you'd have to define distances differently in different directions. The same issues arise when defining a specific area. It's not impossible, just difficult.

The volume is a matter of power, it's not so much that it's infeasible, but you'll need to get somewhat fancy with the way you're powering these enchantments. The constraints on the kind of item are also doable, though you might need to do some experimentation and fine-tuning to make certain it captures all kind of sewage. Excluding specific substances can work, but you wouldn't be able to make the effect filter out any bacteria or poisons present in the sewage, for example.

[WindStruck]

So it sounds like conjuration spells are perfectly fine summoning something from potentially infinite distance away, even from other planes. But the moment you want to put a limiter on that, like, within 200 feet or so or designate an area to search that's a problem.

Still, I think there's a few odd counter-examples:

Guardian Armor (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/g/guardian-armor) - This teleports an armor on your person to another person within a short range. A very concise proof of concept that not only shows it is possible to teleport something a short distance away with a level 1 spell, but also in a very precise manner.

Callback (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/callback) - Summons your familiar back to your side, with a limited range of anywhere from 400~640 feet. Though perhaps it's a special case since the familiar has a magical bond with the caster? I still feel it's worthy pointing out, since its range isn't infinite. Apparently, in this case, more range = more power needed?


What I was thinking was, maybe in order to get the limiter on distances that I wanted, it was just a matter of manipulating the power. Or perhaps, exchange how that power is used. For an ideal example, increase volume but decrease range. But.. I don't know what you mean by "you have to define distances differently". :smallconfused:

What does this mean?

[DeTess]

So it sounds like conjuration spells are perfectly fine summoning something from potentially infinite distance away, even from other planes. But the moment you want to put a limiter on that, like, within 200 feet or so or designate an area to search that's a problem.


Yeah, basically, a standard conjuration spells is 'bring me X thing' without any sort of place specified. Making a spells that brings it from a specific place means you need to make a spell that says, bring my X thing from Y place.



What I was thinking was, maybe in order to get the limiter on distances that I wanted, it was just a matter of manipulating the power. Or perhaps, exchange how that power is used. For an ideal example, increase volume but decrease range. But.. I don't know what you mean by "you have to define distances differently". :smallconfused:

What does this mean?

Okay, so here's how I'm kinda looking at how making an enchantment works. Designging an enchantment is kinda like writing magical pseudo-code. 'Bring thing X to here' is something that's easily supported by the 'conjuration' library, but once you need thing X to come from a very specific place things get more difficult. You'd have to either set a boundary ('continue looking for X untill you encounter the stop command), or define the location very precisely 'look for X, but not further than X meters away on the vertical plane, and no further than y meters away on the horizontal plane, and total distance no longer than Z meters away' and stuff like that.

Sorry, not properly explaining how I saw this is really on me. Also, if you'd prefer a different way to look at how enchanting works, that's fine too, just give me an idea of how your character looks at it and I'll work with that instead.

[pi4t]

Am I understanding correctly that Z was also a student at the academy, who's recently graduated? If so I'm going to suggest that Meredith was in the same year as him, and often used his alchemy.

[pi4t]

(Apologies for the double post.)

I decided to jump on the Julieanne's Brew bandwagon. Apparently it's a popular place! @Armonia It sounds like Xavier is fairly new so Meredith doesn't know of his interest in shipbuilding and won't seek him out. If you want to collaborate, I suggest having Xavier run into Meredith now. (Or, for that matter, if anyone else wants to run into Meredith, this is a good opportunity).

[WindStruck]

Actually, I was thinking about it more and I think we've got it wrong.

Pretty much always, conjuration means an object or substance appears before you. But the exact manner of how this happens varies. Most conjuration effects have the creation tag. Or, it's pretty blatantly flavored that way. An object is created, or brought forth somehow, but as to where it actually comes from? Who knows.

Maybe the spells just grab any old matter from anywhere, and a lot of times these creations disintegrate after the duration is over.

But you'll notice that spells that specifically teleport one known, existing thing from one place to another actually have limitations on their range. This is why I was thinking a range limitation would be pretty easy. As I understand it, the power of the spell dictates how far something can travel.

I think the generic creation spells I was talking about could be like an ultra-efficient algorithm that just skims excess energy from seemingly random places. So maybe you're right, that it takes a lot more "processing power" to search for something specific on top of moving it. But I disagree that limiting the potential distance costs even more power. I see it as perhaps a recursive, web-crawling algorithm, with a priority to keep the search broad, not narrow. So if you want to limit the distance it looks, all you do is limit the number of iterations it gets.

[DeTess]

I think the generic creation spells I was talking about could be like an ultra-efficient algorithm that just skims excess energy from seemingly random places. So maybe you're right, that it takes a lot more "processing power" to search for something specific on top of moving it. But I disagree that limiting the potential distance costs even more power. I see it as perhaps a recursive, web-crawling algorithm, with a priority to keep the search broad, not narrow. So if you want to limit the distance it looks, all you do is limit the number of iterations it gets.

I wasn't really thinking about it as limiting distance requiring more power, but rather requiring a more specific enchantment, making it more difficult to create he enchantment in a way that works. That having been said, I do like this approach as well. It'll probably have a couple of interesting, but fun and minor unintended side-effects, but not something that's particularly problematic.

So yeah, your character wouldn't have any reason to doubt that this approach could work.

edit: @pi4t, yeah, you'd get a stipend this week

@prehysterical, I'll get to your post in a bit, but I want everyone else to have a chance to catch up to your temporal position a bit first, if you don't mind. As I said though, your character would have time for some social stuff while working, so if before those 4 days are over an opportunity to interact ore roleplay with the others comes up, there's no reason not to go for it.

[Prehysterical]

I'll get to your post in a bit, but I want everyone else to have a chance to catch up to your temporal position a bit first, if you don't mind. As I said though, your character would have time for some social stuff while working, so if before those 4 days are over an opportunity to interact ore roleplay with the others comes up, there's no reason not to go for it.
I don't mind at all. He wouldn't make the first move, but I'll keep that in mind.

[Sønderjye]

Using prestigation to make gloves is actually really clever. I hadn't thought about that before.

@Piet, I haven't actually specified how old Z is because I wasn't sure quite what the game was tailored towards. I'm definitely open to having been in the same year as other characters and having been interacted over alchemy.

@All, how far along the education do you all imagining your characters to be? And how long does the education last?

[WindStruck]

I think I'll also add to the previous discussion that those "ultra-efficient" creation spells would actually have the problem of reconstructing the matter into the desired form, plus maintaining shape for that duration.

With that said, I'm glad it seems like some progress is being made. Do you think Shandara finishes within a few hours?

And also, what hours are the archives open? It would be really ideal if she could browse there in the middle of the night. Not much else better to do with her time...

[Armonia13]

Using prestigation to make gloves is actually really clever. I hadn't thought about that before.

@Piet, I haven't actually specified how old Z is because I wasn't sure quite what the game was tailored towards. I'm definitely open to having been in the same year as other characters and having been interacted over alchemy.

@All, how far along the educationare you all imagining your characters to be? And how long does the education last?

Thank you! I got inspired by a game I tried to play in awhile ago. Xavier is 14 years old, but would have graduated early from the Academy's required lessons. He'll still be attending some classes in his spare time, but by all rights is a full fledged member of the Society

@pi4t Xavier will definitely be searching out Meredith, once he isn't occupied with helping Z. Feel free to search him out for his knowledge skills anytime as well!

[DeTess]

With that said, I'm glad it seems like some progress is being made. Do you think Shandara finishes within a few hours?

Your initial study should be done in a couple of hours. Making and testing the enchantment should take longer.


And also, what hours are the archives open? It would be really ideal if she could browse there in the middle of the night. Not much else better to do with her time...

For society members the archives are open 24/7.

[WindStruck]

I guess after researching in the archives for a few examples, I could try making a spellcraft check at a +2 bonus?

You think one check works for Shandara's whole paper she wrote? Or maybe three? One for standard search, one for boundaries, one for the defined areas?

[DeTess]

I guess after researching in the archives for a few examples, I could try making a spellcraft check at a +2 bonus?

You think one check works for Shandara's whole paper she wrote? Or maybe three? One for standard search, one for boundaries, one for the defined areas?

If you want to try creating a working example for all three methods that'd take a lot more time. I'd say expected time required for each method separate is about 3 days (4 for defining the area exactly), but doing all three would take about a week (depending on the check), as you can re-use parts of the enchantments in the other approaches. And yeah, a day of extra study should get you a +2 bonus.

[Sønderjye]

@Prehysterical, if you are bored I'd be happy to do a brainstorming scene for clockwork grafts. Since we're playing with timelines anyway it could be sometime during your 4 days of crafting or it could be a flashback.

@Piet, Armonia's reply makes me think that it sounds good to already be graduated so let's say that we do it during the same year and have the connection about alchemy.

@DeTess,
I'm not rolling knowledge nat because Z is aiding Xavier. Or are we using one of the aid another variants in which the aider rolls and the bonus they give depends on their roll? I do enjoy those variants and how thematically it makes sense that someone who is good at something helps more than someone untrained. I am guessing that I shouldn't roll a heal since I'm forgoing the independent knowledge roll?

I'll just take 10 for the spell-related rolls, getting familiar help. That means 29 spellcraft and 24 kno(arcane). So we're looking at the aura for any spell lesss than lvl 12 and identifical of the specific spell effect up to spell lvl 4. Z will also inform Xavier about the spell and it's location such that Xavier also is able to roll knowledge(arcane) to determine the spell effects.

[Prehysterical]

if you are bored I'd be happy to do a brainstorming scene for clockwork grafts. Since we're playing with timelines anyway it could be sometime during your 4 days of crafting or it could be a flashback.
Z can try, but I'm not sure that Bolten would be keen on the whole idea. The idea of replacing body parts or integrating machinery into a person might be a little... icky to him.

[Armonia13]

@Prehysterical, if you are bored I'd be happy to do a brainstorming scene for clockwork grafts. Since we're playing with timelines anyway it could be sometime during your 4 days of crafting or it could be a flashback.

@Piet, Armonia's reply makes me think that it sounds good to already be graduated so let's say that we do it during the same year and have the connection about alchemy.

@DeTess,
I'm not rolling knowledge nat because Z is aiding Xavier. Or are we using one of the aid another variants in which the aider rolls and the bonus they give depends on their roll? I do enjoy those variants and how thematically it makes sense that someone who is good at something helps more than someone untrained. I am guessing that I shouldn't roll a heal since I'm forgoing the independent knowledge roll?

I'll just take 10 for the spell-related rolls, getting familiar help. That means 29 spellcraft and 24 kno(arcane). So we're looking at the aura for any spell lesss than lvl 12 and identifical of the specific spell effect up to spell lvl 4. Z will also inform Xavier about the spell and it's location such that Xavier also is able to roll knowledge(arcane) to determine the spell effects.

So Z has Detect Magic? Man, I really should have grabbed an item that let's me do that. Future purchase I guess. Also, you're able to take 10 on Knowledge Checks? What is the point of a Bard's Lore Master ability then?

If I'm able to take 10, I'll have 25, +2 if I take the time to use my reference guides, so 27 on Know Nat, Arcana, and Religion(There is such a thing as divine plagues after all), plus a 24 Spellcraft.

[WindStruck]

Yeah, think I'd feel the same way about grafts and such tbh.

I feel like if things go well for Shandara, she may be able to return to the Curator's office with a protype spell (still untested by the way) at around the same time that Bolten brings his schematics and mini drill prototype.

Getting there at the exact same time may be contrived, but at the very least, I feel for a nice story we've got to know that we're each seriously working on something and have come up with some potential solutions.


edit: I didn't think it was possible to aid another on knowledge checks.

double edit: Since Shandara does not have any levels as a wizard, is it even possible for her to test the spells she has come up with by herself?

[Sønderjye]

@Prehysterical&Windstruck, Bah, uninformed peasants, scared for the inevitable avalance of technology. The future is metal and we might as well accept that.

More seriously it could just be grafts for warforged, for people that have lost a limp and now we might as well give them something useful instead of simply a replacement, or just an addition rather than replacement like a way of getting wings.

Though, obviously I'm not going to engage your character on it if you don't enjoy the fantasy.

@Armonia13,
Yep, detect magic was a magewright spell and often comes in handy. Happy to help you with the item later, I'll even throw in a friends discount.

On taking 10 on knowledge. As far as I know you can take 10 on all skills(except UMD which have a specific clause that you can't take 10) as long as you aren't distracted or under threat. It seems pretty unambiguous in under the skill section in the d20pfsrd. I'm not super famliar with the bard ability but my assumption is that it allows you to take 10 during combat which you otherwise can't.

On aiding another. I just reread the aid another section under skills and as I recalled there are no restrictions on skills you can use it on. I had forgotten that I need to roll a 10 or higher on the same roll because only competent help actually gives a bonus. The description specifically calls out that the GM can put in restrictions as they choose so if DeTess says I can't then I can't. Still, it's a lot easier to understand something if you have someone to bounce ideas off(see rubberducking (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_duck_debugging)) and even if you know a lot about something, someone else can still see something or make a connection you didn't which can help you out, so I feel like the case is pretty strong for why it makes sense to aid another on knowledge checks. I would fluff it as pointing out observations, talking about similar diseases, and such. Familiar can talk using prestigation to make crude floating sentences which it can do at will.
Roll for aid another self: [roll0]
Roll for aid another familiar: [roll1]
Edit: so unless DeTess rules differently you get +2 for Z's aid but the floating letters from the familiar doesn't point out anything you didn't know.

[Elbeyon]

@Armonia13,
Yep, detect magic was a magewright spell and often comes in handy. Happy to help you with the item later, I'll even throw in a friends discount.Detect magic is so good that is the only 0th level spell Zeal learned. She just has detect magic prepared in every slot.

[DeTess]

@shandara, I saw you rolled twice for spellcraft, which two approaches are you working on?

Edit:

The pendant is made from Targath, which grants a +2 resistance bonus on fortitude saves agaisnt diseases. It also has a faint blessing on it, granting a further +1 sacred bonus on fortitude saves.

The faint magical aura you detect has hints of transmutation and Necromancy, though you can't determine much more than that. You do notice that the aura seems a bit stronger in those suffering from bad coughing, than those who don't.

knowledge nature: You get a pretty good idea of all the symptoms. The main symptoms seem to be diarhea, coughing, and in many cases a fever. Other issues that some patients mention, such as headaches and diziness seem to spring from dehydration being caused by the disease causing its sufferers to lose a lot of liquid. What seems to be a bit odd to you is that the disease seems to hit two seperate parts of the body, being the digestive tract and the lungs. Many diseases tend to only primarily affect one part of the body, with all other symptoms being the result of something going wrong there.



The faint magical aura you detect has hints of transmutation and Necromancy, though you can't determine much more than that. You do notice that the aura seems a bit stronger in those suffering from bad coughing, than those who don't. FI you're looking at the direct effects of a spell than it's not one you've seen before. It's not impossible for it to be some kind of artificial disease and you do remember reading about a couple diseases like that being used by enemies of the empire during the age of conquest, but most of those where a lot more spectacular and deadly than what you're looking at here.

[WindStruck]

I rolled twice because that's what investigative mind lets you do. Then you get the best roll.

I'm just working on the basic approach. Searching from the point of origin.

[DeTess]

I rolled twice because that's what investigative mind lets you do. Then you get the best roll.

I'm just working on the basic approach. Searching from the point of origin.

Ah, okay, apologies. Yeah, a 33 will allow you to crack that easily in a day or three (which means you'd be done at about the same time as Bolten) so by the end of your third day you've got an enchantment that can reliably do what you need it to do, transferring sewage within a decent range into a container or pipe. Scaling it up to work on a full-size sewer is just a question of finding the right power source to sustain the enchantment, but there's a number of options there that you'll know will work (could be carving the runes with a highly magical kind of metal only found in former lake-beds, or maybe inlaying it with pieces form a magical type of coral or drawing it on with ink made from the heartblood of a sea serpent or something like that. You'll want something that has some natural association with liquids or water, but this is up to you to give your own twist on, and the costs will be covered by the patron for this project).

[WindStruck]

My plan was actually to use several such enchantments to help control the sewage flow and get around tough spots that would require demolishing many buildings. It was meant as a supplement to engineering plans. Not.. one massive spell that does the job for the whole district...

Also, I'm wondering if anything else happens over the course of those days? Shandara would at least be making some trips between her home and the archives, and some places to eat. She'd probably actually have to do some grocery shopping too. (Can't just eat out all the time! ...right?)

Kinda feels like I've just been posting and posting by myself. But I guess if nothing eventful happens.... I'll be seeing Bolten at the office again too?

[DeTess]

My plan was actually to use several such enchantments to help control the sewage flow and get around tough spots that would require demolishing many buildings. It was meant as a supplement to engineering plans. Not.. one massive spell that does the job for the whole district...

I know, sorry if I didn't make that clear. You think it might be able to do the entire job if you got a truly massive way to power it, but it would be more efficient and easier to implement to allow it to bridge gaps as you suggest



Also, I'm wondering if anything else happens over the course of those days? Shandara would at least be making some trips between her home and the archives, and some places to eat. She'd probably actually have to do some grocery shopping too. (Can't just eat out all the time! ...right?)

AS with Bolten, you'll have time for some social stuff, and grocery runs and the like. Working on the enchantment takes up a significant part of your day, like a day (or in your case night) job would, but it doesn't take up every waking moment.

[WindStruck]

Guess I am frozen in time for a bit then. :smalltongue:

I wouldn't mind RPing and all, but I don't think checking vegetables at the store and telling the butcher how many pounds of meat I want would be very engaging.

All the rest of our PCs... welcome to say hi or ask for some limited help.

[Armonia13]

@DeTess Exactly how long ago was the end of the Age of Conquest?

Edit: Also, would a KnoArcana check tell me whether a conjuration aura would appear on a magical disease that wasn't directly transmitted via spell or attack?(Sonderjye did mention that Z would tell Xavier his own findings in the moment)

To be clear, I'm asking if I cast a Contagion spell of some sort on a single target, and it spreads to other people later, would it still Detect as Necromancy and slightly Conjuration in the new victims?
Edit 2: Could've sworn that note said Conjuration earlier, not Transmutation, never mind my question

[Elbeyon]

I'm not normally active when the gm is on!

@DeTess Would you like me to wait for that morgue info? I love all this information! I feel like my character is really researching and learning!

@WindStruck I'm trying to hurry and advance things with each of my posts. Any chance you want to spend time with Zeal? She might have the plague :V

[DeTess]

@DeTess Exactly how long ago was the end of the Age of Conquest?
About 60-ish years now since it formally ended, though as with many things in history there isn't quite that clear a cut-off as historians would like there to be (the lest 40 years of the age of conquest where mostly crushing the last few well-entrenched hold-outs, and dealing with a couple of smallish rebellions).



@DeTess Would you like me to wait for that morgue info? I love all this information! I feel like my character is really researching and learning!


Oh right, if your character is planning on going to the morgue next I'll quickly set the scene for that.

[Elbeyon]

Oh right, if your character is planning on going to the morgue next I'll quickly set the scene for that.My bad. I had Zeal go down to the basement, but I didn't specifically declare her visiting the morgue (yet). I wanted to include the scene change there at the end, so I can work on my next post for tomorrow.

[WindStruck]

Interacting with Zeal sounds really fun. Can't confidently say Shandara would be having fun, but hey she is just too shy for her own good.


Also... no more sign of that shady half-orc following Shandara?

[DeTess]

My bad. I had Zeal go down to the basement, but I didn't specifically declare her visiting the morgue (yet). I wanted to include the scene change there at the end, so I can work on my next post for tomorrow.
No, this was on me, I missed that bit. I've edited my IC post with the transition to the morgue and the area for autopsies.


Also... no more sign of that shady half-orc following Shandara?
Nope, you see no sign of him, nor anyone else looking particularly shady.

[Prehysterical]

About 60-ish years now since it formally ended, though as with many things in history there isn't quite that clear a cut-off as historians would like there to be (the lest 40 years of the age of conquest where mostly crushing the last few well-entrenched hold-outs, and dealing with a couple of smallish rebellions).

Oh... That would have meant that Bolten was born around the time that the Age of Conquest ended. I had originally written his childhood as taking place during the last days of that age. The Crimson Claw orcs were supposed to be a marginalized people pushing back against the Empire in a sort of last hurrah. Do I need to change that part of my character's backstory?

@Windstruck Tea time for subterranean friends?

[WindStruck]

@Windstruck Tea time for subterranean friends?

Uh... sure? Maybe before these 3-4 days have passed when we have arrived with our works?

To call each other friends though.. well, there is a lot of baggage Shandara just has to try not to think about. If Bolten is indeed a friend, maybe he's the closest thing she has to one. But I don't know about Zeal. I'd like to think she could take that title.


I was actually wondering something. I'm sure there are some races that might prefer a more underground environment. Surely there's got to be something a bit like that in the city? Or if anything, basements and tunnels might just be really common!

[Prehysterical]

Sure. Maybe we could say some time during the second day, their halfway point where they need to get some air?

Yes, "friend" is a strong word, but they're acquaintances and they've worked together before. If we need to find a way to kinda nudge them together, maybe the tea shop is crowded by students studying for some exam and Bolten only feels comfortable enough to ask Shandara to share a table.

[WindStruck]

I thought Bolten always just brewed his own tea though.. :smallbiggrin:

Hm, well. Shandara does have a sitting room. If he ever did feel like coming over. Maybe that's a bit much as well.

Well, you gotta eat, and it's probably more convenient to go someplace than make your own.

[WindStruck]

an IC post is up if Bolten is interested in sitting at a small table in a crowded cafe.

[Elbeyon]

I'm liking the exchange between Bolten and Shandara! I have a feeling that Julieanne's Brew is going be visited often. Zeal is overly positive and quick to call people her friends. Though, that that's not really being displayed since she is in a plague hospital and promised not to cause trouble.

[DeTess]

Oh... That would have meant that Bolten was born around the time that the Age of Conquest ended. I had originally written his childhood as taking place during the last days of that age. The Crimson Claw orcs were supposed to be a marginalized people pushing back against the Empire in a sort of last hurrah. Do I need to change that part of my character's backstory?



No, that's no problem. As I said, 60 years ago is where the historians dropped their marker, but the core of the empire had been at peace for longer, while trouble continued for far longer in the empire's outskirts. Iirc you weren't born that close to the empire's core, so it all still fits.

[Sønderjye]

Detect magic is so good that is the only 0th level spell Zeal learned. She just has detect magic prepared in every slot.

Huh, I've been assuming that magewright got cantrips like all other classes that have been converted to pf.




The faint magical aura you detect has hints of transmutation and Necromancy, though you can't determine much more than that. You do notice that the aura seems a bit stronger in those suffering from bad coughing, than those who don't. FI you're looking at the direct effects of a spell than it's not one you've seen before. It's not impossible for it to be some kind of artificial disease and you do remember reading about a couple diseases like that being used by enemies of the empire during the age of conquest, but most of those where a lot more spectacular and deadly than what you're looking at here.


For clarification: Is this you saying that I rolled too low to identify the spell effects, that knowledge arcane don't allow you to identify the effects of a spell that is active, or that I can only identify the spell effects if I am already with the underlying spell?

[DeTess]

For clarification: Is this you saying that I rolled too low to identify the spell effects, that knowledge arcane don't allow you to identify the effects of a spell that is active, or that I can only identify the spell effects if I am already with the underlying spell?

Basically, you're looking at the lingering effects of a spell that has been cast too long ago to identify(and was instantaneous). Like if you find a scorchmark on the floor and pick up some faint evocation, but too much time has passed to determine whether it was a fireball or a lightning bolt.

[pi4t]

I guess I need to apologise again for my lack of posts. This doesn't reflect very well on me, does it? I'm afraid there was a major medical emergency on Monday, which kind of got in the way of me doing any of my usual activities like this. (And also meant I didn't particularly want to read the hospital scenes.)

Getting back on topic, how much would it cost to create the following? Roughly speaking.

1) An unusually large Floating Disk
2) A Floating Disk of the usual size
3) Some mechanical method of propulsion (e.g. a propeller, pump, etc.)

Since we're still in the pre-industrial age, I'm assuming that things like nonmagical engines are out of our reach.

[Sønderjye]

Basically, you're looking at the lingering effects of a spell that has been cast too long ago to identify(and was instantaneous). Like if you find a scorchmark on the floor and pick up some faint evocation, but too much time has passed to determine whether it was a fireball or a lightning bolt.

I see. It would be really nice to be able to identify previously cast spells. How much would an item cost that worked like gloves of object reading (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/universal-items/#TOC-Gloves-of-Object-Reading) but instead of reading the psychic imprint with regard to ownership and the nature of the owner, it would read the psychic imprint of a spell that was cast in the past to gain information about the spell?

Giving this a try.

While wearing this monocle, the user can learn the details of a magical effect by reading the psychic imprint left behind when the magica effect was produced. It works only if the user either is standing where the produced was cast or is able to observe the aura of the magical effect, such as through detect magic.

The amount of information revealed depends on how long the user studies the psychic imprint. The information below is revealed in order such that after 6 minutes the user knows all the information. This item couns as a clairsentience power cast by a 5th level caster for the purpose of effects that conseal information.

Interpreting the psychic imprints requires a spellcraft check against a DC 20+spell level for each minute of studying the imprint. Sucess indicates that the user gains the corresponding information listed below and on a failure the user is overwhelmed by the imprint, must break his studying, and can't resume studying the imprint until a day have passed.

1 minute: The level of the magical effect

2 minute: The target of the magical effect

3 minute: The save(s) DC of the magical effect

4 minute: How long ago the magical effect was cast

5 minute: The description of the effect of the magical effect

6 minute: The intend or goal for producing the magical effect

Notes:
I was looking to tie the use of this to a skill because it felt like interpreting an imprint should be skill based. Psionics Spellcraft (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/skills/spellcraft-int-trained-only/) seems to be a lot about interpreting psionic phenomenom so it seemed like a good fit.

How much would these different approaches cost/how well would they work?
Design 1: The monocle is glass constructed from a mixture of sand(or whatever the usual material to make glass is) and gem dust. The glass is then imbued with magical energy that allows the user to see psychic imprints of magical effect, with magical energy being stored in the gem dust and the runes to direct the energy being enscribed around the edge. The monocle contains enough mojo for 18 minutes use. It can be recharged by a spellcaster sacrificing a spell slot to power at the ratio of 3 minutes per spell slot.
Design 2: As above however the runes allow it to recharge by drawing in ambient mana such that it itself regains 6 minutes of use each day.
Design 3: As design 1 however The monocle is made with regular glass and the magic is stored in psionically attuned jewels(i.e. crystals (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/psionic-special-materials/)) that are embedded in the frame.
Design 4: As design 3 but instead of using crystals to contain the power, the frame of the monocle is made from remelted material which hold a strong psychic imprint such as the first weapon/armor a guard received and had used for 20 years.
Design A: More a redesign of the original item. Instead of being able to learn information about any magical effect we'll restrict it so it only works on spells, replacing all instances of 'magical effect' with spell and replacing 'produced' with 'cast'. Can be combined with design 1-4, I'm just curious about what the difference in price is.

edit:
Are we open to juggling multiple timelines? I'd like to respond to Armonia's reply so we can continue the momentum but there are still things Z is doing inside the hospital. Can I start a scene with Z and Xavier being outside the hospital talking, while continueing the scene inside the hospital? With the understanding that if something major happened inside the hospital(such as Z being kidnapped) then the later scene didn't actually happen and we were just talking hypotheticals? I've had good experiences using a multi-scene framework in other games.

[DeTess]

I guess I need to apologise again for my lack of posts. This doesn't reflect very well on me, does it? I'm afraid there was a major medical emergency on Monday, which kind of got in the way of me doing any of my usual activities like this. (And also meant I didn't particularly want to read the hospital scenes.)

Getting back on topic, how much would it cost to create the following? Roughly speaking.

1) An unusually large Floating Disk
2) A Floating Disk of the usual size
3) Some mechanical method of propulsion (e.g. a propeller, pump, etc.)

Since we're still in the pre-industrial age, I'm assuming that things like nonmagical engines are out of our reach.

A fully nonmagical engine is out of reach (at least without your character first making the half a dozen so so intermediate leaps needed tos tart exploiting steam power). You might be able to design a hybrid, however (using a magical effect to create a force that is then turned into propulsion by a meganism). Regarding the others:

1) probably about a 1000gp or so in materials. You need some kind of focus to hold and power the enchantment, which would be pretty expensive, but you wouldn't need that much else.
2) How unusual are we talking here?
3) depends on the size, but it won't be cheap. Probably 5,000-10,000 gp, for something capable of moving a couple 1,000 lbs per minute, more if it needs to be bigger (and obviously less if it 's allowed to be smaller, such as for a small scale model)


I see. It would be really nice to be able to identify previously cast spells. How much would an item cost that worked like gloves of object reading (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/universal-items/#TOC-Gloves-of-Object-Reading) but instead of reading the psychic imprint with regard to ownership and the nature of the owner, it would read the psychic imprint of a spell that was cast in the past to gain information about the spell?

Giving this a try.

While wearing this monocle, the user can learn the details of a magical effect by reading the psychic imprint left behind when the magica effect was produced. It works only if the user either is standing where the produced was cast or is able to observe the aura of the magical effect, such as through detect magic.

The amount of information revealed depends on how long the user studies the psychic imprint. The information below is revealed in order such that after 6 minutes the user knows all the information. This item couns as a clairsentience power cast by a 5th level caster for the purpose of effects that conseal information.

Interpreting the psychic imprints requires a spellcraft check against a DC 20+spell level for each minute of studying the imprint. Sucess indicates that the user gains the corresponding information listed below and on a failure the user is overwhelmed by the imprint, must break his studying, and can't resume studying the imprint until a day have passed.

1 minute: The level of the magical effect

2 minute: The target of the magical effect

3 minute: The save(s) DC of the magical effect

4 minute: How long ago the magical effect was cast

5 minute: The description of the effect of the magical effect

6 minute: The intend or goal for producing the magical effect

Notes:
I was looking to tie the use of this to a skill because it felt like interpreting an imprint should be skill based. Psionics Spellcraft (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/skills/spellcraft-int-trained-only/) seems to be a lot about interpreting psionic phenomenom so it seemed like a good fit.

How much would these different approaches cost/how well would they work?
Design 1: The monocle is glass constructed from a mixture of sand(or whatever the usual material to make glass is) and gem dust. The glass is then imbued with magical energy that allows the user to see psychic imprints of magical effect, with magical energy being stored in the gem dust and the runes to direct the energy being enscribed around the edge. The monocle contains enough mojo for 18 minutes use. It can be recharged by a spellcaster sacrificing a spell slot to power at the ratio of 3 minutes per spell slot.
Design 2: As above however the runes allow it to recharge by drawing in ambient mana such that it itself regains 6 minutes of use each day.
Design 3: As design 1 however The monocle is made with regular glass and the magic is stored in psionically attuned jewels(i.e. crystals (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/psionic-special-materials/)) that are embedded in the frame.
Design 4: As design 3 but instead of using crystals to contain the power, the frame of the monocle is made from remelted material which hold a strong psychic imprint such as the first weapon/armor a guard received and had used for 20 years.
Design A: More a redesign of the original item. Instead of being able to learn information about any magical effect we'll restrict it so it only works on spells, replacing all instances of 'magical effect' with spell and replacing 'produced' with 'cast'. Can be combined with design 1-4, I'm just curious about what the difference in price is.


I like this idea. generally recharging over time would be pretty standard for an item like this. I think pricing it similar to the glove of object reading is fair. It can get you some more information, but ti does require a number of successive checks. Though I'd say condense it down to 4 checks at most, but prohibit taking 10 (first check gets you level and how long ago, 2nd gets you target and save's, 3rd gets you the intended goal, and 4th gets you the full description).

Anyway, something like design 2 would work. You'd probably want a lens ground from a psionically attuned crystal, though one made with gem dust from a gem that had first been infused with an appropriate spel could work as well. Either way, supplies would set you back about 750 gp. It'd probably take you 1-2 days to design and make it.



edit:
Are we open to juggling multiple timelines? I'd like to respond to Armonia's reply so we can continue the momentum but there are still things Z is doing inside the hospital. Can I start a scene with Z and Xavier being outside the hospital talking, while continueing the scene inside the hospital? With the understanding that if something major happened inside the hospital(such as Z being kidnapped) then the later scene didn't actually happen and we were just talking hypotheticals? I've had good experiences using a multi-scene framework in other games.

I'd preferably not. A little bit with people 'losing' a couple of days while crafting doing some RP in between is fine, but with more than that I'd really need tos tart paying close attention to what everyone will has been doing (not a grammar error, tenses just get weird if I allowed that).

[Armonia13]

I feel I've gotten what I need from the Campus Hospital, so I don't mind deleting my post and wait to redo it when Sønderjye is set, if that helps

Edit: Oof, that wasn't a good thing for me to say. Any chance my Decorum Band stops me from opening my big mouth? I really should think things through better before I post 😅

[pi4t]

2) How unusual are we talking here?


I said usual, not unusual :smallsmile:

For the "large" one, I'm picturing about maybe 20ft across? I basically want to know how the cost scales with size.

[Elbeyon]

Huh, I've been assuming that magewright got cantrips like all other classes that have been converted to pf.Pathfinder didn't give adapt (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/npc-classes/adept/) orisons so I was assuming that npc classes do not get cantrips or orisions. It looks like at-will 0th level spells might be a pc class feature unless that was changed?

[DeTess]

I said usual, not unusual :smallsmile:

For the "large" one, I'm picturing about maybe 20ft across?

Oops, got those inverted. The cost for permanent version for the standard one would be about 1000gp in materials, as I said.

For a 20 foot one, if you'd use the same method as for the standard-size one you'd need a really expensive focus or power source (think a 100k gold, but in practice priceless, as these wouldn't just be for sale). You could probably decrease that significantly by generating a rig of enchantments that creates a number of adjacent smaller disks, though even then it'd be quite pricy (still in the 40-50k range, but the components would at least be more readily available). Generating large force-fields can be done, but it's difficult, and it's generally easier to figure out a way to make another material behave the way you want it to than to use magical force as a structural component.

[Sønderjye]

I like this idea. generally recharging over time would be pretty standard for an item like this. I think pricing it similar to the glove of object reading is fair. It can get you some more information, but ti does require a number of successive checks. Though I'd say condense it down to 4 checks at most, but prohibit taking 10 (first check gets you level and how long ago, 2nd gets you target and save's, 3rd gets you the intended goal, and 4th gets you the full description).

Anyway, something like design 2 would work. You'd probably want a lens ground from a psionically attuned crystal, though one made with gem dust from a gem that had first been infused with an appropriate spel could work as well.

That sounds good. I was imagining that all 4 designs would work but that they would be slightly different outcomes. Are you saying that only design 2 with the modification you made is viable for achieving what I want?

Gotja on the ruling on scenes.


I feel I've gotten what I need from the Campus Hospital, so I don't mind deleting my post and wait to redo it when Sønderjye is set, if that helps

Edit: Oof, that wasn't a good thing for me to say. Any chance my Decorum Band stops me from opening my big mouth? I really should think things through better before I post 😅

Eh, it's fine. I think it's fine to say "when we are done with this I do X" and me just waiting with responding until I'm actually done.


Pathfinder didn't give adapt (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/npc-classes/adept/) orisons so I was assuming that npc classes do not get cantrips or orisions. It looks like at-will 0th level spells might be a pc class feature unless that was changed?

I totally missed that. Good spotted. I'll get around to making my 0st lvl slots prepared. I'll admit, I've never played an NPC class before :smalltongue:

[Elbeyon]

@DeTess I have a bit of a meta question. Is trying to find the source of the disease outside the scope of what we're suppose to be doing? Also, I'm not sure what item would be too much. Would something like: an inhaled substance that mixes with blood and weakens its elements until it evaporates be possible/effective?

[DeTess]

@DeTess I have a bit of a meta question. Is trying to find the source of the disease outside the scope of what we're suppose to be doing?

It's certainly not impossible or entirely outside of the scope, but I will say that things won't be quite as easy as finding a single contaminated well or something like that, and it's not a necessary step (at least , It's not necessary for you to figure this out) to deal with the disease.


Also, I'm not sure what item would be too much. Would something like: an inhaled substance that mixes with blood and weakens its elements until it evaporates be possible/effective?

It could help, but also, once you're bleeding into your lungs, stopping you from drowning in it is only part of what needs to happen.

[DeTess]

That sounds good. I was imagining that all 4 designs would work but that they would be slightly different outcomes. Are you saying that only design 2 with the modification you made is viable for achieving what I want?


For an item like this you'd generally get some passive power regeneration as in design 2. As for design 4... It'd definitely do something, and that something could be very interesting, but your character would think that it'd probably not do what you're looking for in this case. You reckon that that design might be useful to a detective or similar, with an effect closer to the original glove of object reading. Like, if you ever want to create an item that does something like the 'detective vision' you see in some video games, that'd be pretty good approach.

[Elbeyon]

It could help, but also, once you're bleeding into your lungs, stopping you from drowning in it is only part of what needs to happen.The disease seems resistant to being treated directly. I'm not sure if that is only magic though, and alchemy would work. Healing the wounds in the lungs directly through alchemy to stop bleeding may be too direct. Something to cause coagulation may work. It was noted that the magic faded once the victim was dead. Perhaps, inducing a false death, like inducing a medical coma, would disrupt the disease.

[Sønderjye]

For an item like this you'd generally get some passive power regeneration as in design 2. As for design 4... It'd definitely do something, and that something could be very interesting, but your character would think that it'd probably not do what you're looking for in this case. You reckon that that design might be useful to a detective or similar, with an effect closer to the original glove of object reading. Like, if you ever want to create an item that does something like the 'detective vision' you see in some video games, that'd be pretty good approach.

Is it important what is generally done for an item in regards to what designs you'll accept? In a previous post it sounded like putting in a spell array that drew on ambient mana to work were more complicated than something that had to be manually refilled. What I imagined with d1 compared to d2 was that the first one would basically do the same but cheaper since you need to expend a limited resource in order to use it.

Ooh, that sounds exciting. What does detective vision mean in this context? Allow one to view the past on some location?

[DeTess]

Is it important what is generally done for an item in regards to what designs you'll accept? In a previous post it sounded like putting in a spell array that drew on ambient mana to work were more complicated than something that had to be manually refilled. What I imagined with d1 compared to d2 was that the first one would basically do the same but cheaper since you need to expend a limited resource in order to use it.

Being able to recharge it at all makes it a bit more complicated, as you need to design it in such a way that it can be recharged. The exact mechanism doesn't really matter though, unless you want to have a lot of different options (such as passive, and recharging with spell slots). In the previous case, it was a difference between 'making it with a big enough charge that it'll last a long time' and 'making it so it can recharge'. Does that make sense?



Ooh, that sounds exciting. What does detective vision mean in this context? Allow one to view the past on some location?

To some degree yes. It wouldn't be perfect, but you'd be able to get a decent feeling for the events at a place where something impactful happened (such as a murder, or a robbery or the like, anything that would involve high-strung emotions that'd leave en 'echo' for a while). Not enough to be able to identify the faces of those involved, but definitely clear enough to see where the perpetrator or victim headed off to, and to help with finding clues.

[DeTess]

The disease seems resistant to being treated directly. I'm not sure if that is only magic though, and alchemy would work. Healing the wounds in the lungs directly through alchemy to stop bleeding may be too direct. Something to cause coagulation may work. It was noted that the magic faded once the victim was dead. Perhaps, inducing a false death, like inducing a medical coma, would disrupt the disease.

What you've seen so far is that the generic fortitude boosters are of limited effectiveness, and magic for curing diseases isn't that widely available, and doesn't work as well once a victim starts coughing heavily. To egt an effective cure, you'd want to design something that's tailor-made for this disease. Everything you've suggested so far would be helpful, but for the biggest effect you'll not just want to hit one aspect of the disease, but as many as you can manage, does that make sense? I'm not saying you shouldn't try any of the things you've suggested so far, because they're all good ideas, but it's fine to think a bit bigger than just going after one symptom.

[Elbeyon]

What you've seen so far is that the generic fortitude boosters are of limited effectiveness, and magic for curing diseases isn't that widely available, and doesn't work as well once a victim starts coughing heavily. To egt an effective cure, you'd want to design something that's tailor-made for this disease. Everything you've suggested so far would be helpful, but for the biggest effect you'll not just want to hit one aspect of the disease, but as many as you can manage, does that make sense? I'm not saying you shouldn't try any of the things you've suggested so far, because they're all good ideas, but it's fine to think a bit bigger than just going after one symptom.I think I better understand now. So, something like using a form stabilizer mixed with some type of life essence to try to cancel the transmutation and necromancy to help the lungs, and also trying to treat the underlying disease with the same substance. They dehydration isn't a direct symptom and can be treated separately though.

[DeTess]

I think I better understand now. So, something like using a form stabilizer mixed with some type of life essence to try to cancel the transmutation and necromancy to help the lungs, and also trying to treat the underlying disease with the same substance. They dehydration isn't a direct symptom and can be treated separately though.

Yeah, something like that could definitely work. Also, going Voltron on the various symptoms by mixing together a number of different remedies tailored for each individual symptom could help with suppressing it as well, to just give another example. Or , I don't know, figuring out how to grow new lungs and bowels and doing a transplant for each patient (though that might just be a little impractical... :P)

[Elbeyon]

Yeah, something like that could definitely work. Also, going Voltron on the various symptoms by mixing together a number of different remedies tailored for each individual symptom could help with suppressing it as well, to just give another example. Or , I don't know, figuring out how to grow new lungs and bowels and doing a transplant for each patient (though that might just be a little impractical... :P)Haha. Alright! I think I was a little too stuck on the disease's resistance to treatment and was trying to think of ways to treat a disease without curing it. Thanks for the quick replies! I'll make sure to get in another post for tomorrow!

[WindStruck]

I'm wondering if I should roll a sense motive.. oh, why not.

[roll0]

[Elbeyon]

oof. That exchange is going roughly.

[WindStruck]

Poor Bolten. Didn't mean to make him feel bad. :smalltongue:

[Elbeyon]

We'll see him again!

I know people are waiting on me, so I wanted to do my crafting post. Hopefully, that isn't a problem. If for some reason Zeal couldn't leave the hospital, she has the tools to do her work at the hospital.

For the dehydration, I don't think Zeal will use alchemy. Dehydration is a super common problem, and it might be better served to make a more permanent fix. I was thinking Zeal could make either one of the below. I like the Sipping Sleeve more since it could be used for more than just dehydration (like other illnesses), but the more open nature might be problematic and might need a vist. The Quenching Sleeve is simple and straightforward.

Zeal knows of Curnow! She mentioned him to the sister! I wasn't expecting to see him. xD Zeal is pretty happy about that.

The Arcane Arts and Crafts section is craft check fluff and can be skipped. No one should be compelled to read it!

Aura: Faint Conjuration (creation) & Transmutation; CL: 1th; Slot: Wrist; Price: 1,350 gp; Weight: 1 lbs.

This dark blue wave-decorated cloth sleeve easily fits over their wearer’s arm.

As a standard action, the user can pour up to 1000 ml of nonmagical potable liquid onto this sleeve, infusing it into the sleeve. The sleeve can activate on command to have the liquid consumed by the wearer. Once the sleeves is infused with a liquid, the liquid can only be removed without consumption by removing the sleeve and wringing the liquid out.

On command, the sleeve becomes infused with 1000 ml of completely normal water; you can wring it, and so on.

Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Create Water; Cost: 675 gp.

Aura: Faint Conjuration (healing); CL: 1th; Slot: Wrist; Price: 900 gp; Weight: 1 lbs.

This dark blue wave-decorated cloth sleeve easily fits over their wearer’s arm.

On command, the sleeve creates moisture within the body of the wearer as if the wearer drank enough water to sustain themselves.

Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Create Water; Cost: 450 gp.

[DeTess]

Aura: Faint Conjuration (creation) & Transmutation; CL: 1th; Slot: Wrist; Price: 1,350 gp; Weight: 1 lbs.

This dark blue wave-decorated cloth sleeve easily fits over their wearer’s arm.

As a standard action, the user can pour up to 1000 ml of nonmagical potable liquid onto this sleeve, infusing it into the sleeve. The sleeve can activate on command to have the liquid consumed by the wearer. Once the sleeves is infused with a liquid, the liquid can only be removed without consumption by removing the sleeve and wringing the liquid out.

On command, the sleeve becomes infused with 1000 ml of completely normal water; you can wring it, and so on.

Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Create Water; Cost: 675 gp.

Aura: Faint Conjuration (healing); CL: 1th; Slot: Wrist; Price: 900 gp; Weight: 1 lbs.

This dark blue wave-decorated cloth sleeve easily fits over their wearer’s arm.

On command, the sleeve creates moisture within the body of the wearer as if the wearer drank enough water to sustain themselves.

Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Create Water; Cost: 450 gp.
Because of course the perfect item already exists in the actual rules XD


The Arcane Arts and Crafts section is craft check fluff and can be skipped. No one should be compelled to read it!


It's an awesome section, so why would anyone skip it? Anyway, it does take you a bunch of iterations to get the balance exactly right, and to deal with some unexpected interactions between your chosen ingredients, but in a day or two you think it's good enough to start using, though you suspect there's further refinements to be made once you can observe your creation in effect.

That having been said, could you roll me a fortitude save, adding +3 from the amulet you had while in the hospital, and adding any other bonuses you might have against diseases? Unless you're actually immune to diseases, of course.

@sonderje:


You track the four patients through their coins, but find no common origin, though based on the aepprance of the previous owner of some of the coins they spend some time in one of the poorer districts, potentially the Stromdrains.

[Elbeyon]

Because of course the perfect item already exists in the actual rules XD

It's an awesome section, so why would anyone skip it? Anyway, it does take you a bunch of iterations to get the balance exactly right, and to deal with some unexpected interactions between your chosen ingredients, but in a day or two you think it's good enough to start using, though you suspect there's further refinements to be made once you can observe your creation in effect.

That having been said, could you roll me a fortitude save, adding +3 from the amulet you had while in the hospital, and adding any other bonuses you might have against diseases? Unless you're actually immune to diseases, of course.

Those two items are custom items, actually! :smallredface::smallbiggrin: I did put them in an official format though. I wouldn't want to use an already exist item for a commission in a crafting game! I'm glad they looked like official items. I hope they both look ok. I wanted to make sure the sipping sleeve was limited so it could not be abused for potions or something other than intended.

That makes sense she needs to work on them more! I ended with Zeal working on another batch because I am sure it needs refinements and she can do better with testing.

I wasn't trying to cut off any rp at the hospital. Zeal wouldn't pass up a chance to talk to Curnow.

The scary fortitude save! I thought this was coming. Zeal is not immune. She is pretty human with a 10 rp race, but she does get a small bonus for being what she is.

Fortitude Save
[roll0] +1 (Base) +1 (Con) +2 (Racial, Construct Resistance)+3 (Circumstance, Outfit) +3 (Resistance & Scared, Pendent) +5 (Alchemical, Antiplauge)

[DeTess]

Those two items are custom items, actually! :smallredface::smallbiggrin: I did put them in an official format though. I wouldn't want to use an already exist item for a commission in a crafting game! I'm glad they looked like official items. I hope they both look ok. I wanted to make sure the sipping sleeve was limited so it could not be abused for potions or something other than intended.


Heh, I didn't notice that at all. They look fine though for what they need to do, though your character would need to do a bit of design work before you could start producing them.



I wasn't trying to cut off any rp at the hospital. Zeal wouldn't pass up a chance to talk to Curnow.



Ah, okay. I'll have another IC post up in response to that in a bit then, but I need to get some food into me first.

[Elbeyon]

Heh, I didn't notice that at all. They look fine though for what they need to do, though your character would need to do a bit of design work before you could start producing them.

Ah, okay. I'll have another IC post up in response to that in a bit then, but I need to get some food into me first.Excellent! I'll have Zeal work on inventing them in another post. Yay! That's two (including the alchemy item) custom item approvals. :smallbiggrin:

Enjoy your food! I have been looking forward to every post!

Zeal used a lot of money for consumables on that hospital visit but so worth it. She is super busy with her two items, probably working like 16 hours a day, but she'd love to explore the district to try to find the source of the disease. She does have patient history filled journal, detect magic, augury, and locate object (if she knew what she was looking for). Assuming, the pendants aren't a lead. She is probably too busy for that.

[WindStruck]

That having been said, could you roll me a fortitude save, adding +3 from the amulet you had while in the hospital, and adding any other bonuses you might have against diseases? Unless you're actually immune to diseases, of course.

This is exactly why Shandara is going nowhere near that Stormdrain District.

[Elbeyon]

This is exactly why Shandara is going nowhere near that Stormdrain District.Understandable, Shandara is pretty vulnerable. Keep her safe! She has a prosperous future! Shandara and Zeal still need to become friends. :smallbiggrin:

[Sønderjye]

I liked the fluff you put into that post Elbeyon but it has left me a little confused about how much control we have over the world. DeTess, are we allowed to just make up 'ideal' alchemical ingredients like (I think) Elbeyon did. Can I just start describing the process of crafting a concoction and put in ingredients that I invent ad hoc in order for the brew to do what I want it to?

Also DeTess, back when Z left Ronce he left a note with a list of ingredients for the receptionist to get as agreed with Ronce. If you did comment on that I missed. When can he pick that up and were the ingredients as much worth as I suggested?

[DeTess]

I liked the fluff you put into that post Elbeyon but it has left me a little confused about how much control we have over the world. DeTess, are we allowed to just make up 'ideal' alchemical ingredients like (I think) Elbeyon did. Can I just start describing the process of crafting a concoction and put in ingredients that I invent ad hoc in order for the brew to do what I want it to?

You can describe it like that, definitely. Doing some research in advance might reveal particularly effective ingredients, but you're a skilled alchemist, so your character would have some ideas nonetheless.

How ideal those ingredients end up being if you do it this way is of course largely dependent on the craft check that follows.



Also DeTess, back when Z left Ronce he left a note with a list of ingredients for the receptionist to get as agreed with Ronce. If you did comment on that I missed. When can he pick that up and were the ingredients as much worth as I suggested?
Ronce works quickly when properly motivated. It should be ready for pickup the next morning. I'll do some rolling once you go to pick it up.

[Elbeyon]

Zeal has a lot of work to do with the plague! I would have included failures at Arcane Arts and Crafts, but I ran out of time. My intention on ending with Zeal starting on an altered batch was to show that there were improvements and changes she was making to the recipe. She's going to do her homework and try to work through any problems. Like DeTess said: she needs to make iterations, balance the ingredients, and deal with some poor interactions. She did it off screen!

[DeTess]

@Sonderje, the Ingredients from Ronce are all there, matching your list. However, it does seem like Ronce got them from the clearance sale of herb shop or similar, as lot of it is very old. It should all still be functional, but some ingredients have lost a bit of potency, which means you need to use a bit more than usual to get the same effect.

It takes you about 2.5 days to get all 4 of your designs to the point that you feel comfortable testing them on patients. You'd probably be a bit worried about your first two designs, not with regards to its effects, you're fairly certain it'll do what you designed it to do, but about the effect on the patient while the disease burns itself out. It might be best to first test it out on relatively healthy patients with mild symptoms, before testing it out on those that are worse off. Though given its effects, it might also work at cleansing contaminated food or water, provided there is such a source to target.

@Elbeyon After some time studying the books you definitely have some design ideas to make the sipping sleeve work. In particular, you've learned about a particular type of salamander that drinks through its skin, and you've got some solid ideas about how to replicate that effect in humanoids, and how to hold a sufficient amount of moisture for the patient to absorb this way.

@Elbeyon, @sonderje, both your alchemical solutions will be done around the same time. Is there any particular strategy you had in mind for testing and distributing your first batches to confirm it works as it should?

[WindStruck]

Are we all going to be at about the same point in time, now that we have planned out and designed our.. um.. crafts?

[DeTess]

Are we all going to be at about the same point in time, now that we have planned out and designed our.. um.. crafts?

Roughly, yeah. More varying craft-times might be better for verisimilitude, but game-technically, keeping everyone at roughly the same point in time is probably a better idea. I'm planning picking things up at the 'everyone's done crafting' mark on sunday, maybe on saturday, but there's two people who still have some time to fill, @pi4t and @armonia to be precise.

[Elbeyon]

@Elbeyon After some time studying the books you definitely have some design ideas to make the sipping sleeve work. In particular, you've learned about a particular type of salamander that drinks through its skin, and you've got some solid ideas about how to replicate that effect in humanoids, and how to hold a sufficient amount of moisture for the patient to absorb this way.

@Elbeyon, @sonderje, both your alchemical solutions will be done around the same time. Is there any particular strategy you had in mind for testing and distributing your first batches to confirm it works as it should?

Nice! That's really cool. Zeal needs to go shopping.

I can do a post for this. Zeal's focus was always saving lives so her strategy will be centered around that. The main limiting factor in the cure is Zeal; she is only a single alchemist with a single alchemy workshop. Zeal's cure needs to "prove effective" for others to support it. She will send a portion of her cure to campus alchemist and biologist with copies of her notes and formulas. She will eat the cost at her workshop to produce as much solution as she can by herself, 8 goods per day. She herself is going to take the majority of the cure back to Light's heart hospital. She will want to treat the people in the most critical condition first to try to stabilize them and prevent more from dying. That's why she was so focused on removing the blood/liquid from people's lungs, and the medicine is taken through the lungs. The doctors at the hospital should know the sickest, but Zeal can also use detect magic to find the strongest magic in people's lungs to increase speed/accuracy. Detect magic can almost be used as a "detect disease progression." Her cure is burned in a thurible/censor, so if the sickest are gathered on one floor, perhaps, she can treat them at the same time if she burns enough of her thurible bricks around the room.

[Sønderjye]

I should note that Valet familiar means that Z crafts items in 50% of the usual crafting time. If we're looking at syncing people up I guess I can spend some time on other projects and take a break to do something else?

Z priorities a good spread of ages, species, and representations of the various stages of the disease so he'll know whether the cures works on all groups.

[Elbeyon]

Nice! I really liked Z's proper science method. Z and Zeal are going to body this disease together! :smallbiggrin:

Valet familiar is great!

[Sønderjye]

Yeah! We'll do it!

Honestly I would have loved to work together on it but I couldn't find a way to while maintaining the exclusivity for Ronce. This is probably good as well.

It really is. I took it mostly for flavour but then realized the coorporative crafting stuff.

[Elbeyon]

I would have pushed for working together more too except exclusivity is a dealer breaker for Zeal. She never would have agreed to try to protect the formula for personal gain. She is charitable and has a sense of duty towards people and helping them. Her sharing knowledge is probably going against her desire for fame, but her ideals are a higher priority than recognition.

I really wanted a Valet familiar too, but Zeal isn't a human and only has three feats. She has no feats to spare because she has a three feat chain. She doesn't need to sleep though! That's nice. She may not be able to work as efficiently, but she can work harder! Not that her working longer helps her shop at all; they have business hours. And, I don't see anything in the rules about paying people overtime. :smallamused:

[Sønderjye]

Yeah, I get that. I am hoping that both cures works and give Ronce the worse one :smallbiggrin: It needs to work well but not super well.

They should definitely have rules for people working overtime.

I just looked at your sheet and I realized that our builds are so similar. How did you manage to get those feats? I needed to get a crafting feat at lvl 1 to qualify for Exceptional Artisan and couldn't find anything useful so I ended up wasting a feat on craft poppet.

[Elbeyon]

The more people that try to help with the plague the better! Zeal is still curious about the cause since no one seems able to determine that. Zeal is super busy making the alchemy items and magic item. She'd like to find the cause though, but since crafting is more the focus of the game I think I should drop the topic for another time.

Hah. Overtime would be something.

The characters are different though and that's what matters! Poppets are great! I'm probably going to make some in the future just because they are so cool. I love little constructs. And, I paid to retrain one of Zeal's feats.

[pi4t]

I'm sorry, but this campaign is moving far faster than I'd anticipated and I'm struggling to keep up with what's being written, let alone write anything myself. I'm going to bow out.

Sorry to mess you around, and enjoy the game!

[Sønderjye]

That's fair though I'll be sorry to see you go and that I really don't think that your posting speed has been a problem. This game has a pretty individualistic nature, I don't think you're obligated to keep up with what other people are writing unless you are interacting(and you can actually make a case for that improving your ability to not metagame when interacting with other players) and you definitely haven't slowed things down yet.

[Elbeyon]

The content of my posts has been rushed, but I can live with it. The sewer commission finished pretty fast, and I want get the players back in the game as soon as possible! I left my campus posts a little open in case anyone wanted to join them, but I'm going to try to wrap them up since we're moving forward soon.

[Armonia13]

I'm sorry, but this campaign is moving far faster than I'd anticipated and I'm struggling to keep up with what's being written, let alone write anything myself. I'm going to bow out.

Sorry to mess you around, and enjoy the game!

Hey, I think I'm gonna drop as well. It's not that it is moving too fast, I'm just having difficulty following what's going on. Also I severely overestimated my ability to handle multiple games as well as real life. I hope things go well guys, I'll definitely check into the story every now and then cuz you guys are really interesting!

[Prehysterical]

Aw, I'm sorry to hear that, guys. I'd say that it's really not a problem, but I will trust your judgment. Hope that RL and your other games go well.

[WindStruck]

Well, I am sorry to see you guys go.

As Elbeyon said, a lot of it is individualistic.. but I guess in the long run that's probably not so fun as being able to interact with our other players.

[Elbeyon]

I'm sorry things didn't match up quite right for everyone.


As Elbeyon said, a lot of it is individualistic.. but I guess in the long run that's probably not so fun as being able to interact with our other players.That was Sønderjye! :smalltongue: I really enjoy interacting with players too. I'm not that into solo play and enjoy the group experience. :smallbiggrin:

[DeTess]

@armonia, @pi4t, I'm sorry to see you go. If at some point in the future you have more time, I can see about reintroducing your characters.


@Sonderje, @ Elbeyon, here are the results for the tests with your cure designs, feel free to work that into RP however you like.



Design 1: Both variants you created seem to have the same effect. On a healthy person they do nothing, or induce a very slight fever that lasts for a couple of hours before fading. On someone with a mild case of the disease they cause a strong fever (strong enough to render the person bed-ridden that lasts for half a day, but afterwards the sufferer seems completely free of the disease, though they tend to complain of hangover like symptoms, likely due to liquid lost during the fever).
You've tested it on a pair of sufferers that where suffering more from the disease, but the fever that followed was really bad, and for a little while ti looked as if they might succumb to it. However, once the fever broke they where free of the disease. If the pattern holds, this design for the cure would likely be extremely dangerous to those worst off. It'd still likely give the patients in the deadly final stages a better fighting chance, and would be better than nothing. However, design 2 seems to be better used for those cases.

Design 2a: Patients given this concoction show a marked decrease in symptoms. Mild sufferers seems free of the disease altogether, though checks with detect magic show that the disease si still present, and the patient will likely need repeat doses while the body fights off the disease. It helps even for most of those those worst off, weakening the symptoms and buying time for their bodies to fight off the disease. It seems particularly effective against the part of the disease that targets the bowels, but it does less to alleviate the coughing.
Design 2b: Its effects are similar to that of design 2a, though they are more effective in those suffering from heavy coughing. Hoever, the design actually seems less effective on patients at the hospital, or those undergoing some other form of treatment as well. This is likely because the spelleater spit deals with all magic acting on the body, including that of other treatments.




The sickest are actually all kept together and separated from those beter off in the hospital, so it's easy to find them all gathered together. It takes some time for your treatment to disperse through the air and being affecting the patients, but the difference is clear after even a couple of hours. The coughing has decreased markedly on all patients, and they're breathing easier. The fever and other symptoms are also somewhat alleviated, though to a lesser degree. The disease sin't gone, at least not yet, but your treatment is buying the patients time and strengthening their bodies so they can fight off the disease.


@windstruck, @Prehysterical, I'll set up the scene in th workshop in a bit. I don't think Shandara was there yet, but feel free to have her walk in at any time.

[Elbeyon]

At this point should Zeal try to improve the design, or should we be wrapping up this commission?

[DeTess]

At this point should Zeal try to improve the design, or should we be wrapping up this commission?

You could try improving it more, but the weaker points of your design are covered mostly by the brew designed by Sonderje (and you'd likely hear enough about his testing to determine as much). Between your curatives the outbreak will most likely be brought under control. It'll take some time and work yet on the part of the doctors and hospitals, but as long as sufficient remedies are available the disease can be brought under control with minimal further loss of life.

[Elbeyon]

That's wonderful news! :smallbiggrin: Teamwork makes the dream work.

[WindStruck]

I'll wait for Prehysterical to respond before having Shandara walk in.

[Elbeyon]

Zeal's pocketbook really took a hit. All her liquid cash went into making goods to supply the hospitals. All the supplies she saved for crafting got drank up by the Sipping Sleeve. She used a lot of consumables as well. >< I'm glad I banked as much starting money as I did, but I didn't expect it to all disappear. :smallamused::smalleek:

[WindStruck]

That's why nobody should question if we have a few hundred or a thousand gold in the bank saved up from our stipends and stuff. Never know when you will need it! :smallbiggrin:

[Elbeyon]

Exactly! Magic stuff is expensive, and Zeal belongs to the Artifice school. Banking money should be considered wise by the Society. I imagine if Zeal didn't have the money to make the Sipping Sleeve she would have had to submit her concept as a commission, and that would have delayed its construction. But, the people need it now. :smalleek: Though, I suppose how common is a plague, really?

I remember someone said that they were banking money in the requirement thread, and I thought that was a really good idea. I would have started with much less saved like most of my other characters if I didn't read that. I thought I had saved a lot, but it turned out to be barely enough. :smalleek:

[WindStruck]

That was probably me. I said I was leaving some money unspent and mentioned that most of it would probably be in a bank or something.

[Elbeyon]

Oh yeah! I remember you mentioning the bank now. Thanks! You really helped Zeal's first commission go much smoother.

[DeTess]

@Elbeyon: producing the treatment in accordance with the emperor's orders won't eat up all your time. You've got employees for that after all, but you'll need to spend at least a bit of time each day monitoring the work, and the shop won't be producing anything else during that time.

[Elbeyon]

That's cool! Zeal is happy to have her business partially nationalized for the good of the people. She'll supervise Arcane Arts & Crafts during the plague. I'm sure Elrah will be happy to have Zeal around. :smallbiggrin:

Oof at the plague being refereed to as the Stromdrain plague. I doubt Zeal will call it that, but she is only one person.

Still, some caution and vigilance is probably warranted. She'll make sure the letter is the real deal and give a good think on any ramifications of the order. Has something like this happened to the Society before? Is her business being outside campus a factor? How will this effect her "Treatments needed!" commissions? Does this mean her commission was accepted and she doesn't need to do submit her commission, or should she still submit her commission to the school? Does the treatment include the Sipping Sleeve?

[DeTess]

Still, some caution and vigilance is probably warranted. She'll make sure the letter is the real deal and give a good think on any ramifications of the order. Has something like this happened to the Society before? Is her business being outside campus a factor? How will this effect her "Treatments needed!" commissions? Does this mean her commission was accepted and she doesn't need to do submit her commission, or should she still submit her commission to the school? Does the treatment include the Sipping Sleeve?

Yeah, it basically means the commission was accepted, and that that one too has been nationalized. The hospital itself has funds, but the empire is throwing more money at you than they could to do the same job. The imperial seal has some magic woven into it that makes it very difficult to forge, and you have heard of the sender (signature also matches). It's not unusual for the empire to lay claim on the output of the Society or particular members for emergencies like this, and they always reward them well. The sipping sleeve is not mentioned, it seems that they're mainly interested in your alchemical design. Maybe because they think it more important, or maybe because they haven't learned about that one yet.

[Elbeyon]

Awesome! Zeal completes her first commission. :smallbiggrin: Zeal wouldn't want to neglect any paperwork and leave the school in the dark, but it seems everything is business as usual in these unusual times! She will write them (whoever is appropriate) about the Sipping Sleeve and seek clarification. If they don't know the sleeve exists she should tell them so they can decide. And, she certainly doesn't want to be seen as "hiding" information. Plus, the thought does cross her mind that the empire might foot the bill instead of a probably financially strained hospital. She can't imagine a better use of money than improving the health of the people! In the meanwhile, the Sipping Sleeve is already made and free to be used as needed! If the sleeve isn't commissioned or able to be sold, she will, honestly, probably straight donate the Sipping Sleeve to the hospital rather than put the sleeve on a shelf somewhere. It's a lot to give away for a small business, but Zeal will survive and the sleeve can help a lot of people.

[Sønderjye]

Life have been busy and kind of exhausted tonight but I wanted to throw up a post to keep things moving. I skimmed over the posts but if there was anything directed at me other than the research results please poke me again.

Edit: Just to be sure. The weaker points of Zeals treatment was covred by my design 1 right?

@Elbeyon, could we have any shared BG that could make Z trust Zeal in particular? I'd like to only give Ronce one of the designs and get the other one out behind his back, and I'll need someone to have pretended to have invented it so it can't be traced back to z.

[Elbeyon]

Yeah, our designs work really well together. They form a nice little combo treatment to knock out the plague!

All our characters know each other! You want Zeal to steal a design? That's a big ask. She would never normally do that. Perhaps, we can get Z an alias?

[DeTess]

Edit: Just to be sure. The weaker points of Zeals treatment was covred by my design 1 right?


Design 2, actually. Design 1 hits all aspects of the disease, but is best used on someone that is only lightly affected by the disease, while design 2 deals with the symptoms, and especially with the bowel-related ones.

[Sønderjye]

@Detess, perfect. Ronce seem like someone who would prefer a treatment that made the disease kill off itself rather than one that mostly alleviated symptoms.

@Elbeyon, want to take that convo IC once I'm done with Ronce?

[Elbeyon]

@Elbeyon, want to take that convo IC once I'm done with Ronce?Sure! Z and Zeal can talk it out. Make sure to pick a proper location!

[WindStruck]

So I know Shandara can't cast 1st level wizard spells, but is it actually possible to work on the project like through preparations and in a ritualistic sense?

[DeTess]

So I know Shandara can't cast 1st level wizard spells, but is it actually possible to work on the project like through preparations and in a ritualistic sense?

Yeah, that shouldn't be an issue. You are a spellcaster, and the designer of this particular enchantment.

[Elbeyon]

The nice thing about Pathfinder is that a caster doesn't need to know a spell to make a magic item that uses the spell (except potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items). Not knowing the spell adds +5 to the craft DC but creating the item is still possible if the craftsperson is skilled enough. Zeal doesn't know Create Water, so crafting the Sipping Sleeve was harder for her than say: if she was an Adapt with Create Water.

[Prehysterical]

I'm curious, Elbeyon. Have you been saving up all these outfits and characters for a chance to use them, or do you just an instinctive knack for finding them in the aether? :smallbiggrin:

[Elbeyon]

I have some outfits saved, but I will need to get more outfits in the future! The characters I am making up when wanted/needed. I wanted to give Zeal a nice big family tree, but I was reading pathfinder gnome fluff and gnome's don't have families. They raise their kids as a group sorta like lizardfolk or something. That made the family tree idea turn into a blob. So, the family thing didn't turn out as well as I hoped, but Zeal does consider one gnome her mom even if the other gnomes consider it strange.

[Elbeyon]

Z would be talking to

https://i.imgur.com/iqmdtf0.png

Elrah's fluff: Elrah Ettlundl was the first employee Zeal ever hired at her shop. She has a small talent for alchemy and a friendly personality, always eager to learn. She takes clear, easy to read notes in the store’s ledger and is good with the customers. Anything she lacks in skill she makes up for in passion. She has her own key to the store and often opens unprompted if Zeal is lost in a project. She has some trouble at home, but that hasn’t interfered with her work yet.

Will Elrah talk? That's the big question!

[Sønderjye]

@Elbeyon, wouldn't you be the one to judge where Zeal is at that moment? I'm trying to set up a scene with you without taking control of your character in case that's unclear.

[Elbeyon]

Zeal is around! I though since Z asked for Zeal that implies that Zeal isn't in the storefront, but I can have Zeal hear Z from the back or upstairs.

[Sønderjye]

I just didn't want to take control over your character, I guess he can be somewhere Z can't see from his angle. Anyway that sounds good to me.

[Elbeyon]

Of course! That makes perfect sense.

Would Z be interested in a little amnesia potion? :smallamused: I'm trying to think of a way to do this without Zeal stealing Z's work. I do want to engage with your plot, but your plot also puts Zeal in a lot of danger. I imagine the punishment for stealing other people's work is expulsion from the society and also maybe the game. This could cause a game over!

[WindStruck]

I guess I'm done with Shandara in the workshop for now?

Am I going to run into any problems trying to enchant this pipe?

[DeTess]

I guess I'm done with Shandara in the workshop for now?

Am I going to run into any problems trying to enchant this pipe?

Yeah, unless there's more you want to do there, of course. Enchanting it shouldn't present you with any insurmountable issues, but feel free to roleplay some issues and added solutions if you want. Both you and @prehysterical can skip ahead a little to when you next drop by the workshop, of if you want to do something else first, that's completely fine as well.

@Elbeyon, actually stealing someone's designs, will get you in a decent heap of trouble, though in part depending on the details. However, it'd have to be proven, and only Z could make the accusation. That is, in this particular situation, if Ronce finds out Z gave you the design, the only one he can bring legal trouble for is Z.

[Elbeyon]

If that is what Zeal thinks, she can accept Z's design! She wants a good reputation at the society, but she cares less what a mob boss thinks. Plus, pissing off a mob boss could lead to a lot of fun! And, a lot of people get helped this way.

[Prehysterical]

Windstruck, was there anything you wanted to do during that downtime or are you okay with us both just going ahead?

[Elbeyon]

I am looking forward to seeing what people work on next!

[WindStruck]

I wasn't thinking of anything out of the ordinary. I think Shandara will just work on enchanting the pipe, as was requested.

[WindStruck]

As I wrote it, Shandara is stuck on the metalworking part of this.

Oh woe is her. Is there any kind soul that can help her with these cumbersome tools?

[Elbeyon]

Only if there was someone familiar with the sewer system and skilled with metalworking. :smallbiggrin:

Zeal's meeting with Z feels like a fairly average length meeting. :smallamused:

[Prehysterical]

As I wrote it, Shandara is stuck on the metalworking part of this.

Oh woe is her. Is there any kind soul that can help her with these cumbersome tools?
*looks offstage*
"Is that my cue?"

[WindStruck]

*looks offstage*
"Is that my cue?"

Well, uh... :smalleek:

Maybe!

I wouldn't want to twist your arm, or anyone else's really. Okay, well I guess that's not entirely accurate. I was thinking maybe DeTess would have someone for me to talk to. But that's sort of a backup plan.

If Bolten happens to have some reason to go to such a place, by all means. :smallbiggrin:

[DeTess]

Well, uh... :smalleek:

Maybe!

I wouldn't want to twist your arm, or anyone else's really. Okay, well I guess that's not entirely accurate. I was thinking maybe DeTess would have someone for me to talk to. But that's sort of a backup plan.

If Bolten happens to have some reason to go to such a place, by all means. :smallbiggrin:

And if Bolten doesn't I can definitely bring someone in. Either is fine, with me, but this is up to bolten.

[WindStruck]

I was just thinking that Shandara probably doesn't know the best way to get the imprints/engravings/etchings/whatever these technically are onto the copper pipe, and it would be a good RP opportunity.

Don't mean to hold anyone up either. You could even just say something like, "A supervisor over the premises helps Shandara," and be done with it.

[Sønderjye]

@DeTess, are the truth that is compelled from the truth spells subjective truth or objective truth? Does it prevent someone from saying something they think is false or something that is false about the world?

@Elbeyon, Sorry about the delay. Got caught up in life stuff.

@WindStruck, Thanks for making a scene that could involve another player. I think with as few people as we are that's the kind of stuff that'll keep the game running.

[DeTess]

@DeTess, are the truth that is compelled from the truth spells subjective truth or objective truth? Does it prevent someone from saying something they think is false or something that is false about the world?



Subjective truth. You could say things that are untrue as long as you believe them to be true.

[Elbeyon]

I'm thinking a Elixir of Amnesia (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/e-g/elixir-of-amnesia/). If we're getting fancy maybe a Sequester Thoughts (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sequester-thoughts/) version? The sequester thoughts version would probably be 1k to include the 500 gold gemstone.

[Sønderjye]

@DeTess, Perfect!

@Elbeyon, Deal. I was worried for a hot sec when I saw that it could be restored with modify memory but given that's a 6th lvl spell that is unlikely to come into play.

[Elbeyon]

Magic is always expensive. Z is probably familiar with amnesia. He could always consider drugs, lots and lots of drugs, to forget the day. Zeal would only think of going with the magic option or alchemy if there is an alchemy item for that.

[Sønderjye]

Eh, after cost reductions we're looking at something in the 100-200gp range for the elixir. Not something we'll want for every day use but for a one time event it's fine. Moreover it can be made during a single day since it's a magic item progress at a silly fast rate compared to the non-magical goods. So we could in theory wrap that scene up by the end of the day.

[Elbeyon]

My idea on what needs to happen.

Z signs over his research to Zeal in a secret contract, likely through the Society. Unless, we can make a legal contract ourselves.
Z needs something to stop him from giving the drug to another person. Perhaps, he finds out that the Society has done everything needed for the plague. Kinda a sad result for him, but it's probably better than giving the 2nd drug to Ronce.
Z forgets he ever worked with Zeal.

Zeal will use Z's research to further complete the commission. Obviously her approach was incomplete, so she continued her research.

[WindStruck]

Oh, a party! Now THAT sounds fun for everyone!

[Elbeyon]

I bet gnome parties are wild! This whole plague thing is real a downer, you know, and a party sounds ideal once the city has thins thing beat! :smallbiggrin:

[Sønderjye]

On board with the contract thing. @DeTess, how are contracts usually handled?

I'm not sure I get your second point? Why wouldn't he just use the elixir to forget the piece of information that he had made a second treatment and one to forget that he made this deal?

Otherwise that works fine. I, as a player, would appreciate getting some of the money(assuming that stuff happens) for what whoever pays for licencing the formula, possibly in donations to Z's workshop, though Z care more about getting the cure out than the money(even if the money is nice) so I'd also just cope with not getting anything.

[Elbeyon]

I only imagined the use of one elixir. More could be worth it.

Zeal is not so greedy that she'd try to use Z's commitment to helping people against him for profit! I'm sure we can figure out some way to compensate Z! I also didn't know Z had a workshop. I know we get a weekly 50 gold stipend, and that was going to increase as we became more known. Plus, we get a % commission from whatever we make and everything.

Edit: If we can do the contract without a third party, Zeal is trained in linguistics. She only has +6 though. That'd work if making a contract is DC 15. Take 20 might be available for DC 25.

[Sønderjye]

Enough amnesia is always the answer?

Great, thanks for splitting it. What split feels good? 50/50 on whatever Zeal gets for this treatment?

Unrelatedly I am pondering possible next inventions and I am noticing that I don't know what stuff already exists and/or is widespread. While I thought it cool that the metal I mentioned early was used in worldbuilding, it also surprised me because I assumed it was obscure enough that it wasn't in wide use. DeTess would you be able to shed some light on the magical tech level of the world? In particular what kind of magics/items are used by the guards, by educational institutes, in manual construction, and by merchants? Also in logistics, criminology, mental enhancement/changes, and food production? Consensus on theories of the soul and what constitutes the self?

[WindStruck]

Well.. that would be a whole lot of info dump...

If you're thinking of inventing something, it may be better to just ask if what you were planning on creating already exists, or something similar.

[Sønderjye]

I recognize that yeah. I just have a lot of ideas and which ones are feasible depends on the setting. Here's a list of some of them


Food:
Device that converts waste from the sewers into a powder that easily can be used by farmers. But with magic, are there any farmers and if so what are they already doing to increase crops?
Exploring different plants and grafting a plant together that yields more food than existing agriculture.
Device that converts waste directly into food.
Device that just conjures food using conjuration magic like repeating trap for conjure food and water.
Logistics:
Two bags that are sympathetic-conjurationally linked so something that is put into one bag instead appears in the other
Device that copies non-magical things put into it.
Mental:
A device that allows user to remove and store memories in it.
A variant that allows the user to review memories stored in the device
A variant that allows others to review those memories
A variant that allows users to store/copy all memories related to some skill
A variant that implants memories instead of viewing them, allowing users to acquire vast bodies of knowledge in a short time.
A variant that allows the implant of a full memory set into an artificially grown brain/body to transplant consciousness. Heavily depends on how souls work in the setting.
Anti-aging:
A device that when worn or when used regularly uses healing magic to restore the damages caused by aging. Also heavily depend on how souls works.
A creme that works like Unguent of Timelessness (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/r-z/unguent-of-timelessness) but works on entities that currently are alive in order to extend lifespan.
Criminology:
Previously discussed device that allows for identifying of spells cast.
The detective vision device from earlier
A device that tracks someone based on sympathetic resonance.
A device that identifies who was present during some time
A device to counter memory modifying that otherwise lets criminals weasel out of truth compulsion
A map that allows one to, on a map, track the location of all instances of a type of prior linked object(i.e. guard badges)
A device that counters illusions
Various offensive and defensive capabilities
Plagiagery:
A device that uses the psychic imprint of a crafted object to learn how it was crafted. Hurr hurr.


The bottom line is that it's a long list and I don't want to do full writeup of all items when whether they could potentially be viable depends on the setting. I'm also happy exploring things in game(i.e. criminology) but even a laymans understanding is helpful for sorting in ideas. If little is known about souls I am also happy to go to town with experiments on that front.

[DeTess]

On board with the contract thing. @DeTess, how are contracts usually handled?


Well, you need to find someone to summon a Devil for you, and in exchange for one or more souls they'll draft up an ironclad contract backed by punishment clauses from the Nine hells...

Or you could get a lawyer to do it. Fees for something as simple as an agreement of sale is generally about 10gp or so.

You could probably write it yourself with a bit of study as well, and there are basic fill-in templates for this sort of thing available in the archives.



Unrelatedly I am pondering possible next inventions and I am noticing that I don't know what stuff already exists and/or is widespread. While I thought it cool that the metal I mentioned early was used in worldbuilding, it also surprised me because I assumed it was obscure enough that it wasn't in wide use. DeTess would you be able to shed some light on the magical tech level of the world? In particular what kind of magics/items are used by the guards, by educational institutes, in manual construction, and by merchants? Also in logistics, criminology, mental enhancement/changes, and food production? Consensus on theories of the soul and what constitutes the self?

General tech-level is late middle ages, renaissance or thereabouts, with some things probably a bit more advanced than that (because I don't have the time to learn what the state of science was during the actual renaissance on all fronts, so I'll play it by ear mostly), but you're also right now at the center of a vast empire, which means all the rare and obscure things are still reasonably accessible. That metal you mentioned would have been very difficult to get just about anywhere else, but here there was at least enough to be found to work it into pendants for most of the front-line medical personnel*.

Generally though, If you've got a cool idea it's highly unlikely I'll respond with 'this already exists' unless I'd either previously established its existence on screen, or it is very, very obvious.

For example, on the list you posted of ideas, you could probably advance most of those. Some of those (the anti-illusion device for example) might already exist in some form, but further advances can be made, while others are active fields of study that you could contribute to (like the plant research). A way to vastly extends people's lifespans is possible, but it won't be easy, and will likely be either extremely costly or impractical (for the simple reason that simple immortallity causes a rather seismic bit of setting upheaval, which is fine as a long-term thing, but not something you'll have done by next Tuesday).

The linked bags you mentioned have actually just been discovered by the Curator of artificery (I'd mentioned that to windstruck as part of their research, which means it had been established as a thing already), but as with all his designs, they'll need some refining and simplifying before it can be easily produced.


@prehysterical: there's also plenty of places where you'll get more of a back and forth. The Escribano workshop however is also a business that specialized in turning the designs from the Society into practical applications, and that includes the business side of it. Don't worry, not every hand-in of your projects will be quite as dry and business-like.


*A bit of background lore on that: When the disease just started breaking out, an unscrupulous Merchant bought up every scrap he could get. However, his daughter then got ill, and he donated it all to the church of Sarenrae in return for treatment for his child, The church then worked int into pendants to help protect the healers.

[Elbeyon]

@Sønderjye What? Zeal isn't interested in making a profit on something that isn't her work. Z will get all the money from drug. The only thing Zeal wants is her costs covered (aka the cost of any amneisa elixirs she makes). Does the drug have a name, or do you want Zeal to make the name since she is suppose to be the one inventing it. Zeal will get the credit for the drug, but that is sort of the idea. If for some reason the two drug commissions can't be separated 50/50 is fine.

I don't mind the 10 gold lawyer fee, but it's more a question if we want a third party at all. Zeal is trained in linguistics! I do kinda want to use that skill the more I think about it. It's not often people write/sign contracts in games!

@DeTess I think Zeal will stay away from devil contracts even if the devil is suppose to be a third party. The costs and risks would might be too high :smallamused:

[WindStruck]

I think Prehysterical could have been hinting that he'd hoped for a reaction to his work similar to Shandara's. :smallbiggrin:

Maybe that's a fair point, but then again, it's all engineering field, and I'm sure all the people knew what they were looking at without much need for dialogue. On the other hand, Shandara was introducing a magical application, and they needed to call in one of their magical experts.

(I think her presence may have also cut any further interactions they could have had with Bolten short).

[Sønderjye]

@Elbeyon, Fair enough. I'd feel good about you getting a good chunk of profit as well but I guess you'll decide on that one.

I second giving Zeal a chance to flex her linguistic skill. I don't mind the 10gp, the worry of the lawyer is involving more people.

I have 78gp on my sheet and each potion is 175gp after cost reductions. Do you have enough for reagents for the amnesia potion or will we have to wait on those until we have enough cash? Taking the money for those out of the profits once they roll in?

@DeTess, Thanks for the answer! That does clarify things and give me something to work with. My personal preference is to have consistent rules of the world and find ways to work with those but the rule of cool is also a valid approach.

Also, tell me more about these devil contracts and souls.

[Elbeyon]

@Sønderjye The potions are cheap. Zeal can cover it. She does have a different cost reduction than Z though, so the potion will cost more for her. It's more that a person can only make one magical item a day. So, Zeal could make one elixir today, but it'd take another day to make the second one. Perhaps, Zeal can make one elixir. And, Z can make his own elixir later to forget her made the drug.

[DeTess]

@DeTess, Thanks for the answer! That does clarify things and give me something to work with. My personal preference is to have consistent rules of the world and find ways to work with those but the rule of cool is also a valid approach.


I'd prefer to be able to give you an entirely consistent and pre-meditated set of rules as well, but I just don't have the time to do the in-depth world-building required to be able to get an exact list of where every field is technologically speaking (which I'd also have to update over time). When a player shows an interest in a particular direction I can and will fill in things more, but I don't have the time to do it all in advance.



Also, tell me more about these devil contracts and souls.

I was mostly joking... However, there are rumours about spells that would allow the summoning of an extraplanar being to arrange for supernaturally enforced contracts.

Now, these are just rumours and urban legends but sometimes you hear about a sudden unexplained death in a noble house after they had a public falling out with another house, or you hear things about merchants suddenly going under after defaulting on a contract, and one would start to wonder if there isn't some truth to it...

Also, I'm probably going to a bit of a step forward in time, probably two weeks from now (earlier if you look all set for it, later if you've all still got lots of RP going) where the current projects are all finished (with further payouts, rewards and other consequences), and a new set of commissions are added to the board as well. When that happens you'll all gain your first gestalt level as well, so that's something you might want to think about already.

[WindStruck]

Oh.. a time skip for everyone?

Seems a bit fast in my opinion... I guess this is assuming all the projects went smoothly without a hitch. Or did we all just roll too high for there to be a possibility for failure? :smalltongue:

[Prehysterical]

@prehysterical: there's also plenty of places where you'll get more of a back and forth. The Escribano workshop however is also a business that specialized in turning the designs from the Society into practical applications, and that includes the business side of it. Don't worry, not every hand-in of your projects will be quite as dry and business-like.

I'm sorry if that sounded passive-aggressive on my part, DeTess, but that wasn't me taking a dig at you through the character.

Bolten grew up without the presence of his father, he had a strict and perfectionist mother, and none of the other dwarves cared enough to help him find his way after the destruction of his home. Between all that, Bolten has something of a validation complex because he feels like the workshop is the only place where he is really accepted for his own accomplishments. In his own mind, there would be a lot of celebration and camaraderie between him and the engineers upon his discovery and Bolten would feel like part of the group for once. This is completely unrealistic and unfair to project onto the engineers, of course, but Bolten simply doesn't know any better due to his stunted social upbringing.

I was perfectly fine with how things went down, which is why I even threw in the bit about him recognizing his own insecurity. Rest assured, there was no beef in that word sandwich. :smallbiggrin:

[Sønderjye]

I'd prefer to be able to give you an entirely consistent and pre-meditated set of rules as well, but I just don't have the time to do the in-depth world-building required to be able to get an exact list of where every field is technologically speaking (which I'd also have to update over time). When a player shows an interest in a particular direction I can and will fill in things more, but I don't have the time to do it all in advance.

That sounds good to me. Thanks for the clarification. Do let me know if at any point it feels like I'm putting too much work on you.


Also, I'm probably going to a bit of a step forward in time, probably two weeks from now (earlier if you look all set for it, later if you've all still got lots of RP going) where the current projects are all finished (with further payouts, rewards and other consequences), and a new set of commissions are added to the board as well. When that happens you'll all gain your first gestalt level as well, so that's something you might want to think about already.

Can we spend the time crafting and selling off screen in the meantime? I had a bunch of project planed over the next days

[Elbeyon]

I don't mind timeskips. It's nice when games move forward IC. It feels good to get some roots in the game through the IC months.

[DeTess]

Okay, I made that sound a lot more dramatic than intended. The 'timeskip' I mentioned would only be about 4 days, mostly to a point where the results of the various commissions start becoming visible (and any complications might start popping up, though I vastly underestimated the numbers you guys could put out, so it'll generally go about 98% right).

[Sønderjye]

How much does Z get from the two treatments?

Also I think I'm about done with the scene with Elbeyon. I imagine the rest can happen nicely off screen though we should probably agree on the details of the contract. I'm also happy to go with a standard leasing contract or whatever people use for distribution and further work on works of others.

[Elbeyon]

@Sønderjye Would you like me to post IC about Zeal giving Z the contract details?

[Sønderjye]

Sure, sounds fun

[WindStruck]

So, uh, will we continue with the workshop scene, or just skip??

[Elbeyon]

I wasn't able to post today. I'll post tomorrow.

[WindStruck]

Are we waiting on anything still?

I think I was still waiting on a response from Prehysterical, if there will be one.

Or I guess skipping a bit ahead works too.

[DeTess]

I'm waiting a bit more for Prehysterical and for Z and Zeal to round off their deal.

[Sønderjye]

And here I thought Elbeyons and my scene was while waiting for the timeskip :smalltongue:

Unrelatedly, @WindStruck does your character have a particular domain of items that your character is invested in? Bolten has clockwork, Zeal has alchemy, Z has alchemy and potentially graft though I think I'll explore mind stuff, but I'm struggling a little to place your characters interests.

@DeTess, you might have missed the two questions in my last posts?

@Elbeyon, In your post have you already made a contract? The legal work referred to is that a contract that Z can sign? On reflection it's probably just the society law.

[DeTess]

@DeTess, you might have missed the two questions in my last posts?


I might have, sorry! I assume you meant these?



Can we spend the time crafting and selling off screen in the meantime? I had a bunch of project planed over the next days

Yeah, shouldn't be an issue


How much does Z get from the two treatments?


You'll get the payment from Ronce over the timeskip. Since I think Zeal will be sharing the full profits from your treatment, that'll probably amount to another 500 per week (which Zeal would egt on top of the 1000 per week already promised) over the next 4-5 weeks (I'll put the specific amount in the timeskip post as well).

[Prehysterical]

Are we waiting on anything still?

I think I was still waiting on a response from Prehysterical, if there will be one.

Or I guess skipping a bit ahead works too.


I'm waiting a bit more for Prehysterical and for Z and Zeal to round off their deal.
I was waiting to see if the scene was going to get axed or not because of the timeskip. I will reply now.

[WindStruck]

Unrelatedly, @WindStruck does your character have a particular domain of items that your character is invested in? Bolten has clockwork, Zeal has alchemy, Z has alchemy and potentially graft though I think I'll explore mind stuff, but I'm struggling a little to place your characters interests.

I think the answer you are looking for, in comparison to the other characters we have here, is:

Shandara's specialization is magic. Spells and arcane research.

ALSO, she's quite a good jeweler.

And she'd rounded out in other ways that make sense, I guess. Another interest related to the other characters is alchemy, though I imagine she isn't as good.

[Elbeyon]

Unrelatedly, @WindStruck does your character have a particular domain of items that your character is invested in? Bolten has clockwork, Zeal has alchemy, Z has alchemy and potentially graft though I think I'll explore mind stuff, but I'm struggling a little to place your characters interests.

@Elbeyon, In your post have you already made a contract? The legal work referred to is that a contract that Z can sign? On reflection it's probably just the society law.Zeal actually mostly focuses on artifice. Alchemy was simply the most relevant commission to her interests. She didn't pick the plague because it was alchemy, but because she wanted to focus on the plague. Helping with the plague was something Zeal felt she needed to do. The most relevant commissions to Zeal's skills are the boat and festival commissions. She will try the bank commission even if her skills are not the best aligned.

The contract put on the table is that fill-in template DeTess mentioned. It's just an example to give an idea to Z of what to expect to sign. It's not the final contract. Zeal will need to write a new contract to match the odd circumstances.


You'll get the payment from Ronce over the timeskip. Since I think Zeal will be sharing the full profits from your treatment, that'll probably amount to another 500 per week (which Zeal would egt on top of the 1000 per week already promised) over the next 4-5 weeks (I'll put the specific amount in the timeskip post as well).That's right! OOC, Z should get the money from his commission, because that is only fair. I think it'd be a jerk move and not a team move OOC to try to take Z's comission.

[Sønderjye]

@DeTess, Yes those exactly. Thanks!

@WindStruck, Gotja. Any thoughts on what kinds of spells that you're interested in making?

@Elbeyon, any particular kind of artifice that Zeal is interested in?
I am 100% comfortable with a 50/50 split but if you think that's a **** move I'll follow you.

[Elbeyon]

@Elbeyon, any particular kind of artifice that Zeal is interested in?
I am 100% comfortable with a 50/50 split but if you think that's a **** move I'll follow you.I suppose Zeal is more interested in wondrous items and architecture. She wants to change society!

I do think claiming gold on the commission is a bit of a jerk move! Zeal isn't doing any work, currently, aside from making some elixir which she is being reimbursed. Zeal getting some fame for her time seems like a good deal. Zeal isn't trying to make money off the plague or Z. She will likely put in some extra work on the formula, but she can accept that.

[DeTess]

@prehysterical, there is a set of clamps in the workshop that allows for the inserted object to be rotated. It's generally used for holding pipes while the craftsman either straightens it out (or bends it) or works it into something else.

@windstruck, now that you're thinking in that direction you might recognize it as well. It looks like a slightly oversized clamp with a set if rollers on each side that can turn to turn the object.

[Sønderjye]

To me it feels like we're in this weird limbo where everybody waits for someone. Might I suggest that DeTess makes the timeskip post and we'll get around to adress it as soon as our scenes close?

[DeTess]

If prehysterical and windstruck want to finish their scene first, I'll of course let them. If they're fine with it, I'm going to kick things forward.

[Sønderjye]

I suspect I was unclear since your reply doesn't really address my post. I'm saying that you could make a post and people can wait with jumping along the timeskip until their scenes are finished. There's no reason as to why they can't finish their scene after you reveal what happenss after the timeskip.

[Prehysterical]

You cool with moving forward, Windstruck?

[DeTess]

Provided no one has any objections, I should put the 'kick things forward a bit' post up sometime tomorrow.

[WindStruck]

Yeah we can move on... :smallsmile:

[Sønderjye]

Sounds good to me. I guess that means we should get around to choosing gestalt level 1. What are people looking at picking up? I'm myself leaning a little towards Artisan as it seem to be the only real non-cheese way to reduce crafting costs aside from Extraordinary Artisan. I was also having my eyes on some cool factotum/chameleon base class homebrews but they are probably too strong compared to available options.

[Prehysterical]

On that note, I have a rules question for DeTess. So, the familiar granted to the Clocksmith Wizard is stated to get only half of the usual bonuses. Meanwhile, in the rules, there is also a Clockwork Familiar that functions as a full familiar and has some nice little bonuses on top.

Since this whole game is about earning our power, would it be all right if Bolten crafts his familiar and gets the Bestiary Clockwork Familiar instead of a retooled standard familiar?

Edit: The links are below
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/clocksmith-wizard-archetype/

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-familiar/

[DeTess]

On that note, I have a rules question for DeTess. So, the familiar granted to the Clocksmith Wizard is stated to get only half of the usual bonuses. Meanwhile, in the rules, there is also a Clockwork Familiar that functions as a full familiar and has some nice little bonuses on top.

Since this whole game is about earning our power, would it be all right if Bolten crafts his familiar and gets the Bestiary Clockwork Familiar instead of a retooled standard familiar?

Edit: The links are below
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/clocksmith-wizard-archetype/

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/clockwork/clockwork-familiar/

Yeah, if you can manage to craft that one yourself it's fine to take it, and it won't apply only half the usual bonus. I'll waive the requirement for being level 7 to get it as a familiar, but you should pick up improved familiar to do so if you hadn't already.

[Prehysterical]

So, speaking of feats, we get one as part of our first level gestalt, right? I'm fuzzy on how gestalt rules work with NPC classes.

[DeTess]

So, speaking of feats, we get one as part of our first level gestalt, right? I'm fuzzy on how gestalt rules work with NPC classes.

Yeah, not because of gestalt, but because I'm also giving you a feat from e6 at these 'gestalt' level-ups.

[Sønderjye]

How are we doing E6 feats? Do you have a source from which we can choose from, do we pick official regular feats with a level requirement of in the 1-9(?) range, or do we just homebrew them?

[DeTess]

How are we doing E6 feats? Do you have a source from which we can choose from, do we pick official regular feats with a level requirement of in the 1-9(?) range, or do we just homebrew them?

Official feats with level requirements 1-7 (because pf gains a regular feat at 7, not 6 like dnd). Homebrew epic feats are on case-by-case approval after finishing the gestalt side.

[Sønderjye]

Great!

Relatedly, I am rethinking my choice of gestalt class. Is this (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer/) version of the artificer allowed? It's similar to the eberron (https://sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/classes/artificer) variant that were previously allowed with less class features and no infusions, and instead more power shifted over to charge storing feature.

[DeTess]

New post is up. @ Elbeyon and @Sønderjye, your deal would have gone off without any trouble (meaning Z doesn't remember a thing). I assume Zeal will be sending the extra 500/week your way, but I'll leave it up to you how that goes.

As a week has passed, you'll also all get your weekly stipend, as well as any other weekly income you might have.

edit:

Relatedly, I am rethinking my choice of gestalt class. Is this (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer/) version of the artificer allowed? It's similar to the eberron (https://sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/classes/artificer) variant that were previously allowed with less class features and no infusions, and instead more power shifted over to charge storing feature.

I'm not a fan of that one, specifically not of it's weird science feature. I might be misreading it, but it seems really, really powerful, especially in e6, where it gains spell levels as quickly as any full caster. It gets a lot of spell casts per day (more than a sorcerer, significantly more if you can reliably make that use magic device check), and gets only slightly less 'spells known' than a sorcerer would. The ability to combine casts is also really powerful, and if such a combined device only takes up a single device slot then it makes the class significantly more versatile than sorcerer while also being able to cast far more spells in a day.

[Prehysterical]

For the record, since I think that was listed in the recruitment thread, the weekly stipend is 50 gp, right? Also, for skills, we only get per level skill ranks for our first PC level and not starting skill points, right?

Edit: Ha, so much for "perfect memory". :smalltongue:

[DeTess]

For the record, since I think that was listed in the recruitment thread, the weekly stipend is 50 gp, right? Also, for skills, we only get per level skill ranks for our first PC level and not starting skill points, right?


Starting skillpoints aren't really a thing in PF, so no, you won't get those. Remember, in gestalt you get the amount of skillpoints of your best class, so if your gestalt a 6+int class on a 2+int NPC class, you'd get 4 additional SP.



Edit: Ha, so much for "perfect memory". :smalltongue:

Oh, he got what he wanted to test exactly right. He just didn't quite think through all the consequences. The easiest way to test whether the definition for sewage encompassed everything was to use it to magically block off a pipe and check if anything got through. Of course, since the definition was correct, that meant there was nowhere it could go but back up into the workshop :P

[WindStruck]

Me reading ooc first: oh god what happened!?


Um also. With this new gestalt level, we get more skill points? But the max rank we can have is still 6 right?


One more thing. How much did the magical gel stuff that Shandara used to enchant the pipe cost? And would she be reimbursed for that as well, in addition to her stipend?

[DeTess]

Um also. With this new gestalt level, we get more skill points? But the max rank we can have is still 6 right?

Yes, that's correct.



One more thing. How much did the magical gel stuff that Shandara used to enchant the pipe cost? And would she be reimbursed for that as well, in addition to her stipend?

Yes, she'd be reimbursed for the test-tube, and if she takes the contract to make the rest, the pay-out for that contract is on top of the material costs.

[Prehysterical]

Right, right. Sorry, DeTess, playing games in multiple systems and the rules get jumbled sometimes. Bolten's Expert class gives him 6+ skill points, so I'm not complaining (with background skills, to boot.)

Guess this means Bolten needs to buy a spellbook... or would it be fine if Bolten made his own spellbook as basically a catalogue of his future designs? (He'd still pay full price; just for fluff.)

[DeTess]

Guess this means Bolten needs to buy a spellbook... or would it be fine if Bolten made his own spellbook as basically a catalogue of his future designs? (He'd still pay full price; just for fluff.)

That's completely fine.

[WindStruck]

Okay. Since the initial tests worked (with some unfortunate consequences), would the Escribano Workshop be interested in any of the other designs for further refinement to their plans/needs?

As a reminder: wards could be set up to redirect the search, which can modify the area to a cone, square, semi-circle, or something else more irregular, and this also will typically allow for slightly more distance in the other directions.

The other option is simply searching one or more pre-defined areas, rather than centered around the pipe.


-----

Oh yeah. So I assume Shandara will need to enchant something much bigger than a copper pipe 20 cm wide?

How big are these pipes and what is their material?

[DeTess]

Okay. Since the initial tests worked (with some unfortunate consequences), would the Escribano Workshop be interested in any of the other designs for further refinement to their plans/needs?

As a reminder: wards could be set up to redirect the search, which can modify the area to a cone, square, semi-circle, or something else more irregular, and this also will typically allow for slightly more distance in the other directions.

The other option is simply searching one or more pre-defined areas, rather than centered around the pipe.



The one with the wards they aren't really interested in because it'd mean losing a decent portion of the gains in reduced construction your first design has (still far better than having to lay the pipes all the way, and if you'd presented it first they might have gone with that). The one with the pre-defined area would be ideal, but it's also the most tricky to implement. It's not beyond you, but it's easier to make a mistake with and would take longer to create per pipe because each pipe would need to have a separate area defined.

In other words, your first design is good enough. The one with pre-defined areas would be the perfect solution, but you'd be looking at closer to 8 days of work, and larger risk of mistakes.



-----

Oh yeah. So I assume Shandara will need to enchant something much bigger than a copper pipe 20 cm wide?

How big are these pipes and what is their material?

The bigger pipes vary in length and size a bit, but the largest ones are 4 meters long and about 80 cm in diameter, while the smallest would be about 3 meters long and 50cm in diameter. They'll be made from cast iron. You can make use of their workshop for the enchanting, as they'd have the tools needed to easily handle the larger pipes.

[Sønderjye]

I'm not a fan of that one, specifically not of it's weird science feature. I might be misreading it, but it seems really, really powerful, especially in e6, where it gains spell levels as quickly as any full caster. It gets a lot of spell casts per day (more than a sorcerer, significantly more if you can reliably make that use magic device check), and gets only slightly less 'spells known' than a sorcerer would. The ability to combine casts is also really powerful, and if such a combined device only takes up a single device slot then it makes the class significantly more versatile than sorcerer while also being able to cast far more spells in a day.

That's fine, I am on the edge between that one and the eberronpf anyway so I'll just run with the latter. I agree that in a normal game it would be really powerful though with how few spells we seem to use on a daily basis and in particular how few of them that are useful to repeatedly cast it felt like it wouldn't be excessively powerful here.

[Elbeyon]

I'll try to get a longer post in next time!

Custom Item request: I'm trying to buff up my skills to tackle that bank. Would it be possible to craft a custom Cracked Magenta Prism (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/magenta-prism/) with a higher skill bonus (using the item creation guidelines)? And, might it be possible to combine that item with itself to allow it to boost multiple different skills.

[DeTess]

@Sonderjye, could you roll me a knowledge arcana for your research? Is there anything in particular you hope to come across, or want to look into?

@windstruck, if you're going for your original design, no more rolls are needed. IF you try to implement the 'rigidly defined area's' variant I want another spellcraft check.


I'll try to get a longer post in next time!

Custom Item request: I'm trying to buff up my skills to tackle that bank. Would it be possible to craft a custom Cracked Magenta Prism (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/magenta-prism/) with a higher skill bonus (using the item creation guidelines)? And, might it be possible to combine that item with itself to allow it to boost multiple different skills.

You could definitely try to make something like this as a personal project, but it'll be more involved than a 'standard' magic item. I suggest you'd do some in-game research and think a bit about what you want it to do exactly. Are you looking for an item that gives your character a thief's skill-set, or that'd allow you to use effects from the item to make up for area's in which you lack skill (such as a magical auto-lockpicker or similar).

Also, could you roll me a gather information to see what you can learn about the bank and the attempts other people have made?

[Sønderjye]

@Elbeyon, just wanted to check in - are you fine with closing the contract scene or are there something you'd like out of it before we do that?

@DeTess,

Just to make the IC request for more info on the mind and memory a little more concrete here is a design that Z is considering making and he wants to be sure that he's on the right track.
The memory extractor is a small vial. On the bottom there is a psionic crystal which have been treated with similar alchemical reagents as the memory related ingredients in Elixir of Amnesia. When the opening of the vial is placed against the forehead of a user and the user activates the device, a ephemereral mist starts flowing from the forehead and into the vial in which remains as a turning smokey liquid. In this way the device allows a user to extract memory of one event or all memories related to a specific piece of information into the device. The liquid in the vial, referred to as liquid memory, contains the memory and can be ingested. Once ingested a user lives through the memory in real time. While reliving a memory through drinking liquid memory a user is unaware of their surroundings. They can exit a memory they currently are experiencing at any time by succeeding a DC 12 Will save or by taking a single point of damage. If a user exits before a liquid memory is fully experienced the remainder of the memory is lost. A memory extractor can be used 3/day but there is no limit to the number of liquid memories a creature can consume save for the time required to live through the memories.