Shield Proficiency with Feats

[Kessel]

Our table is leaning towards altering the Weapon Master Feat so you can take either proficiency with four weapons or proficiency with shields.
Obviously we have casters that are keen for this, but does it muck up game balance?
Would you keep the +1 to DEX or STR or are shields enough of a feat?
Does anyone have experience with this in their games?

[Anymage]

I'd just say that you could pick shield proficiency as one of your four weapon picks. Between the characters who already have shield proficiency from class (which includes pretty much everybody who would Strength to begin with) and the characters to whom Moderately Armored would be a superior option to grab shield proficiency, a wizard or sorcerer wanting to drop a whole ASI into being able to use shields might as well get a few melee weapons too to enable their warmage concept.

[WaroftheCrans]

Considering Moderately Armored does this already, while granting Medium Armor proficiency, I'd agree with anymage on this, and say that they can choose the shield as one of their three feats.

The only ones who would want Weapon Master in its modified form over Moderately Armored are Sorcerers and Wizards. I personally think they'd be better off with either an artificer, cleric or hexblade 1 level dip, depending on the situation.
Shields really aren't enough of a feat to justify having no other benefits, and the other benefits certainly aren't broken.

[ProsecutorGodot]

A part of design that is never explicitly stated but is heavily implied with each instance is that a character should have Medium Armor proficiency to have proficiency with Shields. To my knowledge, there is no way to get shield proficiency without also getting medium armor proficiency, and I'm pretty sure its intentional.

I would generally avoid giving casters who don't get this proficiency by default the ability to do so with less downside than Multiclassing. That's just my opinion though, the only classes this benefits are Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock (who aren't hexblade) and Rogue.


a wizard or sorcerer wanting to drop a whole ASI into being able to use shields might as well get a few melee weapons too to enable their warmage concept.
I can't help but be cynical here and assume its a player who wants to maintain their full caster progression (or doesn't want to delay their spell level progression) and cut the usual feat cost for keeping that progression.

I would sooner recommend multiclassing into Cleric, then depending on the choice they can also get heavy armor proficiency.

[Kessel]

First off, thanks all for chiming in.

The reason we're debating if it should just be shield or shield and three other weapons is that as it's been pointed out, shield is harder to get. If you don't multiclass (or have the option) then two feats is the soonest you can get it. Thus why we're debating the inclusion of a +1, and what the worth of the shield really is.

Wizard/sorcerer can score elven chain, and I can't see a mountain dwarf wanting to spend 2 feats to get the shield. Both cases you have medium armor without the shield.

Some things should be hard to get, I'm torn on this one, thus why I'm asking folks on here.

[Dienekes]

First off, thanks all for chiming in.

The reason we're debating if it should just be shield or shield and three other weapons is that as it's been pointed out, shield is harder to get. If you don't multiclass (or have the option) then two feats is the soonest you can get it. Thus why we're debating the inclusion of a +1, and what the worth of the shield really is.

Wizard/sorcerer can score elven chain, and I can't see a mountain dwarf wanting to spend 2 feats to get the shield. Both cases you have medium armor without the shield.

Some things should be hard to get, I'm torn on this one, thus why I'm asking folks on here.

For my own game I’ve considered shield the equivalent of two weapons.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Wizard/sorcerer can score elven chain, and I can't see a mountain dwarf wanting to spend 2 feats to get the shield. Both cases you have medium armor without the shield.

Some things should be hard to get, I'm torn on this one, thus why I'm asking folks on here.

Two things on Mountain Dwarf: It's a single feat, the prerequisite for Moderately Armored is light armor proficiency, which you get from Dwarven Armor Training and I did forget about Dwarven Armor Training giving you medium armor without shields.

That (unless I'm forgetting any further features) is the only feature that does so. Elven Chain just pretends you're proficient but doesn't actually give you proficiency.

[Kessel]

You're right on mountain dwarf, my bad.

sorry, I wasn't clear. If you have elven chain (the equivalent of med armor,) are you really going to invest two feats to get a shield? I'm a fan of multiclassing but when it's not an option, should a shield be obtainable for one feat or two?

[ProsecutorGodot]

You're right on mountain dwarf, my bad.

sorry, I wasn't clear. If you have elven chain (the equivalent of med armor,) are you really going to invest two feats to get a shield? I'm a fan of multiclassing but when it's not an option, should a shield be obtainable for one feat or two?

No you probably wouldn't, regardless of whether you have elven chain or not. I personally wouldn't change the feats around.

[WaroftheCrans]

You're right on mountain dwarf, my bad.

sorry, I wasn't clear. If you have elven chain (the equivalent of med armor,) are you really going to invest two feats to get a shield? I'm a fan of multiclassing but when it's not an option, should a shield be obtainable for one feat or two?

Elven chain is only 14+Dex (max +2) AC. Those two feats can get you +2 dex and medium armor as well as shields, and assuming you get a +2 armor (equivalent of elven chain), those two feats score you +5 AC, a wider range of magic item availability (there are magical medium armors other than generic +2) and +2 to str/dex.

I personally wouldn't do it, but if you feel that shields are that important to spend one feat with no additional benefit, I see reason to spend two feats boosting a decent stat and improving AC more. I'd rather MC or not get shields.

As for weapon master, I can see making the shield worth 2 weapons, but it's tied for the worst feat in the game with grappler anyway, so its not like making it a 1 for 1 substitute would be bad.

[Blood of Gaea]

There's already a built in option with Moderately Armored, you just have to go through the normal progression by having light armor first. Grab light armor with a racial bonus if your class does not grant it.

[JackPhoenix]

A part of design that is never explicitly stated but is heavily implied with each instance is that a character should have Medium Armor proficiency to have proficiency with Shields. To my knowledge, there is no way to get shield proficiency without also getting medium armor proficiency, and I'm pretty sure its intentional.

Multiclassing into barbarian gives shield proficiency, but no armor proficiency.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Multiclassing into barbarian gives shield proficiency, but no armor proficiency.

Well, maybe I should look a bit harder before making these sorts of statements.

Not exactly practical for a spellcaster but it is there.

[Bobthewizard]

There is a UA shield training feat (https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020_Feats.pdf) that comes close to what you are looking for.

[Kessel]

There is a UA shield training feat (https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020_Feats.pdf) that comes close to what you are looking for.

That looks solid. I just have to convince the table to accept UA haha
Thanks again for the feedback, everyone.

[mistajames]

I would mirror the other views above in general, except to add that the question of whether it should be allowed in a specific instance should really depend on party dynamics.

It's OK to give (for example) an unoptimized L6 Thief PC shield proficiency if the rest of the party consists of a GWM/PAM Barbarian, a Diviner wizard, and a minmaxed Hexblade/Sorcerer. At the end of the day, the only thing that everyone shares the spotlight, and no single character can solve every problem.