Artificer, TCE Wizard Items, and Magic Initiate

[Silpharon]

Level 14 Artificer allows you to attune to an item even outside of your class. So we could, for instance, attune to the new Planecaller's Codex. This allows the replacement of a prepared wizard spell with a conjuration spell from the book, for instance the level 9 Gate spell. This can be done by spending a charge at any time, not over a rest. The problem is... an artificer has no wizard spells, but could they get one without multiclassing?

The magic initiate feat lets you learn a wizard spell, but that can only be used once a day. This I believe could count as a prepared (edit, this is contentious) wizard spell... so can you replace it? If you do, you can never get it back (without help of another book), but you can get a really high level spell this way (could be cast once per day). You could keep replacing it with other conjuration spells, or from other schools with similar items.

Can you guys think of any other way to make this work besides multiclassing? I don't believe spells from Fey Touched or Shadow Touched follow a 'class'. Ritual Caster explicitly says you can only cast them as rituals out of the book, so they aren't 'prepared'. Spell Sniper gives you a wizard cantrip, but I don't think cantrips should count either.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I don't think MI would work. A Wizard who takes MI to learn a 1st level Wizard spell wouldn't be able to use his Wizard spell slots to cast it, unless he also learned and prepared it as a Wizard spell normally.

Even if an Artificer can somehow prepare Gate, he would still need a 9th level spell slot to be able to cast it.

[Greywander]

I don't think MI would work. A Wizard who takes MI to learn a 1st level Wizard spell wouldn't be able to use his Wizard spell slots to cast it, unless he also learned and prepared it as a Wizard spell normally.
X to doubt.

I believe the official ruling is that you can cast your spell from MI with a spell slot if you have levels in the relevant class. If you have just one level in the wizard class, you could indeed cast a wizard spell gained via Magic Initiate using a spell slot.

Even this, though, I'm going to dispute. It says you learn the spell. Period. It does not say anything about casting it using a spell slot, or that there are conditions to do so. Either (a) you can always cast the spell using a spell slot, because the feat says you "learn" the spell, or (b) you can never cast the spell using a spell slot, because the feat never says you can. That's how I see the RAW, at least. There's been a few times where I feel like they've clarified what the RAW "should have been", and it often leaves me scratching my head. I say let them cast their MI spell with spell slots, because that's more fun.

Edit: To the OP, this still wouldn't work. MI allows you to "learn" a spell; the spell is not "prepared", and thus cannot be replaced. You can only replace a "prepared" wizard spell, and only wizards can prepare wizard spells. Not even something like an EK or AT would work, because they have spells known, not prepared. In theory, if you had another class that used the wizard list and also prepared spells, then it would work.

[Silpharon]

I don't think MI would work. A Wizard who takes MI to learn a 1st level Wizard spell wouldn't be able to use his Wizard spell slots to cast it, unless he also learned and prepared it as a Wizard spell normally.

Even if an Artificer can somehow prepare Gate, he would still need a 9th level spell slot to be able to cast it.
Spell slots don't matter. See below...

X to doubt.

I believe the official ruling is that you can cast your spell from MI with a spell slot if you have levels in the relevant class. If you have just one level in the wizard class, you could indeed cast a wizard spell gained via Magic Initiate using a spell slot.

Even this, though, I'm going to dispute. It says you learn the spell. Period. It does not say anything about casting it using a spell slot, or that there are conditions to do so. Either (a) you can always cast the spell using a spell slot, because the feat says you "learn" the spell, or (b) you can never cast the spell using a spell slot, because the feat never says you can. That's how I see the RAW, at least. There's been a few times where I feel like they've clarified what the RAW "should have been", and it often leaves me scratching my head. I say let them cast their MI spell with spell slots, because that's more fun.

Edit: To the OP, this still wouldn't work. MI allows you to "learn" a spell; the spell is not "prepared", and thus cannot be replaced. You can only replace a "prepared" wizard spell, and only wizards can prepare wizard spells. Not even something like an EK or AT would work, because they have spells known, not prepared. In theory, if you had another class that used the wizard list and also prepared spells, then it would work.

Yes, you're right on the spell slots. If this did work, you could cast the spell once per day using the feat (of any level), regardless of spell slots.

I was thinking "learned" implies "prepared" (though prepared does not imply learned). After all, if something is learned, I'm always prepared to cast it. Is this not the case?

Tasha's introduced a lot of new magic items, but the artificer 14 ability seems wasted on a lot of them due to mechanics that just don't work with an artificer.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Here's the official answer on using spell slots to cast a spell learned from Magic Initiate:
https://media.wizards.com/2015/downloads/dnd/SA_Compendium_1.01.pdf


Magic Initiate
If you’re a spellcaster, can you pick your own class
when you gain the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, the feat doesn’t
say you can’t. For example, if you’re a wizard and gain the
Magic Initiate feat, you can choose wizard and thereby
learn two more wizard cantrips and another 1st-level
wizard spell.
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st-
level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but
only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes.
For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the
Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use
your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you
can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell
you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard
and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard
spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subse-
quently prepare.
In short, you must follow your character’s normal
spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can
expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from
Magic Initiate.

So if you pick Wizard for MI, you would still need to have Wizard levels to be able to prepare the MI spell as a Wizard spell.

[Damon_Tor]

I was thinking "learned" implies "prepared" (though prepared does not imply learned). After all, if something is learned, I'm always prepared to cast it. Is this not the case?

This came up in the context of the spell "Glyph or Warding" a while back. Glyph of warding specifies that the spell you store within it has to be prepared. If we assume that known does not imply prepared, then a class like the bard (which does not prepare spells, but has Glyph of Warding on its list) could not use this function of the spell. For this reason we have to assume that RAI is that a known spell is considered prepared. Colloquial English backs this up.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This came up in the context of the spell "Glyph or Warding" a while back. Glyph of warding specifies that the spell you store within it has to be prepared. If we assume that known does not imply prepared, then a class like the bard (which does not prepare spells, but has Glyph of Warding on its list) could not use this function of the spell. For this reason we have to assume that RAI is that a known spell is considered prepared. Colloquial English backs this up.

No, it's just that different classes treat it differently. For a Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Ranger, etc. a known spell is one that's available to cast. For a Wizard, Cleric, Paladin, etc. a prepare spell is one that's available to cast. So a Bard only needs to know a spell to use it with Glyph of Warding, but a Wizard or Cleric would need to have the spell prepared.

[Silpharon]

This came up in the context of the spell "Glyph or Warding" a while back. Glyph of warding specifies that the spell you store within it has to be prepared. If we assume that known does not imply prepared, then a class like the bard (which does not prepare spells, but has Glyph of Warding on its list) could not use this function of the spell. For this reason we have to assume that RAI is that a known spell is considered prepared. Colloquial English backs this up.

Nice find Damon. I agree this seems logical.


No, it's just that different classes treat it differently. For a Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Ranger, etc. a known spell is one that's available to cast. For a Wizard, Cleric, Paladin, etc. a prepare spell is one that's available to cast. So a Bard only needs to know a spell to use it with Glyph of Warding, but a Wizard or Cleric would need to have the spell prepared.

So are you saying for a Bard learned implies prepared, but not for Wizard? Regardless I don't think this applies to the purpose of the thread. Magic Initiate lets you learn a Wizard spell. There is no option to prepare it, so learned implies prepared, and it can be cast once per day without a spell slot (and only once per day in this case as you've pointed out correctly).

[Greywander]

After looking up and reading the description on the Planecaller's Codex, it is specifically referring to replacing one spell you've prepared from your spellbook with a different spell from your spellbook. I don't think there's any way you'll be able to get around that.

[Silpharon]

After looking up and reading the description on the Planecaller's Codex, it is specifically referring to replacing one spell you've prepared from your spellbook with a different spell from your spellbook. I don't think there's any way you'll be able to get around that.

Where are you seeing that? The exact quote is:

If you spend 1 minute studying the book, you can expend 1 charge to replace one of your prepared wizard spells with a different spell in the book. The new spell must be of the conjuration school.

So the new spell comes from the book (obviously), but the old spell is just a prepared wizard spell (typically from a book, but there's nothing explicit).