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Emperor Demonking
2007-11-07, 11:42 AM
Two questions.
One is MMM unbeatable.
Two, apart from not being able to bring bags of holding is rope trick unbeatable.

Yuki Akuma
2007-11-07, 11:43 AM
Dispel Magic.

No.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-07, 11:53 AM
Dispel Magic.

No.

QFT

Of course, finding them might be harder. Transdimensional spell is also good for hurting things in there.

Starbuck_II
2007-11-07, 12:49 PM
Dispel Magic.

No.

Lose line of Sight and Effect from Rope trick. Unless Dispel Magic works across planes (I'd say no). You can't area dispel either it says. This assuming they pull rope into the Rope trick area.
If they leave the rope hanging out one could dispel it.

But yes, Rope Trick is that immune.

Irreverent Fool
2007-11-07, 01:02 PM
I'd have to say that per the RAW, you can't dispel a rope trick (even though you can detect the window via certain spells such at detect magic) Since you can't see through the window from the outside even with transdimensional spell you wouldn't have a line of sight and so wouldn't have any way to target what the spell is cast upon which, as the spell description says, is the rope.

Of course, you can always detect it, set up a trap, and wait.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-07, 01:04 PM
You can't area dispel either it says.


I'd have to say that per the RAW, you can't dispel a rope trick (even though you can detect the window via certain spells such at detect magic) Since you can't see through the window from the outside even with transdimensional spell you wouldn't have a line of sight and so wouldn't have any way to target what the spell is cast upon which, as the spell description says, is the rope.



Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes.

Where, exactly, does it day this? The window and bottom are present on the material plane. The window is only invisible (so anything that would let you see invis. would let you see the window and have line of effect also btw). Note that the creatures inside the space can't be effected, but the spell itself opens a hole and creates a window attached to the material plane. An area dispel should certianly be able to effect it as well as a targeted dispel on the window, which although you can't see in, you can see the window itself. Furthermore, with transdimensional spell, if you do an area dispel, you wouldn't need to target the rope specifically (and therefore need to see it) as it would be in the area.

Dausuul
2007-11-07, 01:18 PM
I'd have to say that per the RAW, you can't dispel a rope trick (even though you can detect the window via certain spells such at detect magic) Since you can't see through the window from the outside even with transdimensional spell you wouldn't have a line of sight and so wouldn't have any way to target what the spell is cast upon which, as the spell description says, is the rope.

Hmm, that's true. So rope trick is, in this respect, more secure than Mordenkainen's, whose point of origin remains in the Material Plane and is thus subject to dispel. On the other hand, it is arguably possible for an intruder to enter the dimensional interface of a rope trick, if said intruder can spot the window and fly up to it.


Where, exactly, does it day this? The window and bottom are present on the material plane. The window is only invisible (so anything that would let you see invis. would let you see the window and have line of effect also btw).

You have to target the point of origin, which is the rope; and the rope is in the extradimensional space. Rope trick specifically states that spell effects cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, and area effects do not cross it.

daggaz
2007-11-07, 01:22 PM
There's nothing to stop the enemy from turning the spot into a regular kill zone, tho. Rope trick is fine if you are just trying to avoid unwanted encounters in the middle of the night. But if you are deep into enemy territory? One would be well advised to not catch oneself in what is essentially a very tight corner.

mostlyharmful
2007-11-07, 01:22 PM
Hmm, that's true. So rope trick is, in this respect, more secure than Mordenkainen's, whose point of origin remains in the Material Plane and is thus subject to dispel. On the other hand, it is arguably possible for an intruder to enter the dimensional interface of a rope trick, if said intruder can spot the window and fly up to it.



You have to target the point of origin, which is the rope; and the rope is in the extradimensional space. Rope trick specifically states that spell effects cannot reach into the extradimensional space unless they can cross planes.

So the obvious answer is to go into your rope trick and then cast Mordenk... Booom.. heh, oops:smallredface:


seriously who wants a perfect impentetrable fortress from a LEVEL TWO frikn' spell?

skywalker
2007-11-07, 01:35 PM
So the obvious answer is to go into your rope trick and then cast Mordenk... Booom.. heh, oops:smallredface:


seriously who wants a perfect impentetrable fortress from a LEVEL TWO frikn' spell?

The only thing it says is: "It is hazardous... blah blah blah." It doesn't specify what happens,(as it does with portable holes and bags of holding) it just says it's hazardous. So technically, by RAW, there's nothing wrong with casting MMM inside your rope trick area. Since we're going RAW crazy in this thread anyway.

mostlyharmful
2007-11-07, 01:45 PM
The only thing it says is: "It is hazardous... blah blah blah." It doesn't specify what happens,(as it does with portable holes and bags of holding) it just says it's hazardous. So technically, by RAW, there's nothing wrong with casting MMM inside your rope trick area. Since we're going RAW crazy in this thread anyway.

They may be but I am having fun thank you.:smalltongue:

Dausuul
2007-11-07, 01:47 PM
The only thing it says is: "It is hazardous... blah blah blah." It doesn't specify what happens,(as it does with portable holes and bags of holding) it just says it's hazardous. So technically, by RAW, there's nothing wrong with casting MMM inside your rope trick area. Since we're going RAW crazy in this thread anyway.

Not that it would make your fortress invulnerable, even so. The enemy just has to climb into your rope trick and then dispel magic on your Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion... or even just dispel the rope trick from inside, and see what happens to the MMM entrance when the plane it's on ceases to exist. (Objects within the rope trick just get dumped out, but does that apply to spell effects as well?)

AKA_Bait
2007-11-07, 01:50 PM
You have to target the point of origin, which is the rope; and the rope is in the extradimensional space. Rope trick specifically states that spell effects cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, and area effects do not cross it.

You may be right there. A transdimensional area dispel should still nail the sucker though.


Not that it would make your fortress invulnerable, even so. The enemy just has to climb into your rope trick and then dispel magic on your Mordenkainen's magnificent mansion... or even just dispel the rope trick from inside, and see what happens to the MMM entrance when the plane it's on ceases to exist. (Objects within the rope trick just get dumped out, but does that apply to spell effects as well?)

How can they climb in if you pulled the rope up?

technophile
2007-11-07, 02:14 PM
How can they climb in if you pulled the rope up?
The spell description only says that creatures cannot see through the window, and that the rope disappears if you pull it in; it doesn't say that pulling it in closes the window or prevents creatures from flying through it etc.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-07, 02:27 PM
The spell description only says that creatures cannot see through the window, and that the rope disappears if you pull it in; it doesn't say that pulling it in closes the window or prevents creatures from flying through it etc.

I always got the impression from this spell that you could only enter the extradimensional space if you a climbing the rope, since it doesn't specificy the size of the opening or that the window is the opening. That seems to be supported by the fact that it can fit 8 creatures of any size, even ones broader than the window.

Irreverent Fool
2007-11-07, 02:34 PM
The spell description only says that creatures cannot see through the window, and that the rope disappears if you pull it in; it doesn't say that pulling it in closes the window or prevents creatures from flying through it etc.

Eh, we're in gray area here. The spell implies that you have to go into the space via the means of the rope. It doesn't say it opens a doorway that anyone can go through and that the rope is just a handy way of getting there. You're casting a spell on the rope itself, remember.

Of course, there's nothing saying specifically that you can't either.

Edit: Ninja'd


A transdimensional area dispel should still nail the sucker though.

More gray area. The spell description reads "...Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes." and later states "Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it."

So what the RAW are saying here is that spells that work across planes and that don't have to have a line of sight or effect to get to their victims can affect those inside. Essentially this second line limits your choices to divinations that work across planes. No, sir. I don't like it.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-07, 02:47 PM
More gray area. The spell description reads "...Creatures in the extradimensional space are hidden, beyond the reach of spells (including divinations), unless those spells work across planes." and later states "Spells cannot be cast across the extradimensional interface, nor can area effects cross it."

So what the RAW are saying here is that spells that work across planes and that don't have to have a line of sight or effect to get to their victims can affect those inside. Essentially this second line limits your choices to divinations that work across planes. No, sir. I don't like it.

Um, except for the fact that Transdimensional Spell specifically does allow spells to cross to other planes that the spell would normally not be able to effect. In a pre-complete arcane version of the feat posted on the wizards site it specifically mentions rope trick (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20030528a), in fact.

Irreverent Fool
2007-11-07, 02:48 PM
Um, except for the fact that Transdimensional Spell specifically does allow spells to cross to other planes that the spell would normally not be able to effect. In a pre-complete arcane version of the feat posted on the wizards site it specifically mentions rope trick (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rp/20030528a), in fact.

I stand corrected. WHY DIDN'T YOU LINK THAT SOONER? So an transdimensional area dispel could hit the rope that was pulled up, thus dispelling the entire rope trick.

Of course, this would reQuire the use of a 4th-level spell slot to defeat that pesky 2nd-level spell.

Okay! So it's not unbeatable, just powerful.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-07, 03:03 PM
I stand corrected. WHY DIDN'T YOU LINK THAT SOONER? So an transdimensional area dispel could hit the rope that was pulled up, thus dispelling the entire rope trick.

Of course, this would reQuire the use of a 4th-level spell slot to defeat that pesky 2nd-level spell.

Okay! So it's not unbeatable, just powerful.

Well yes, the OP's question was about it being unbeatable afterall... it's totally powerful. Overpowered for a second level spell imho.

Roderick_BR
2007-11-07, 05:14 PM
Now I imagine the wizard, wearing robes and bunny shoes, laying on his extra-large bed, reading something relaxing... suddenly space warps around him, and he sees himself falling to the ground, all his equipment and clothes scattered around him. He gets up, look around, and finds the other wizard that just had a success in his dispel check.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-07, 05:19 PM
Now I imagine the wizard, wearing robes and bunny shoes, laying on his extra-large bed, reading something relaxing... suddenly space warps around him, and he sees himself falling to the ground, all his equipment and clothes scattered around him. He gets up, look around, and finds the other wizard that just had a success in his dispel check.

Oh yes, that's a something I've pictured many times. If WotC would pay me to write novels set in their universes I would have written that as a death scene long long ago. :-)

Kurald Galain
2007-11-07, 05:31 PM
Okay, how's this:

Planar Trap (abjuration, level 5)

Range: medium
Area: circle of 10 foot per level
Duration: 1 hour per level
Components: V,S,M

This spell creates a hazardous disturbance between the planes. Any creature attemping to enter or leave the plane the spell is cast on within its area of effect (this includes planeshifting, going ethereal, entering a Rope Trick, etc) is struck by violent turbulence of the planar border.

Any such victim must make three fortitude saves. A victim who makes all three feels uncomfortable but is otherwise unaffected. A victim that fails one saving throw is stunned for 1d6 rounds. A victim who fails two saving throws takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level, in addition to being stunned. A victim failing all three saving throws is disintegrated.

The presence of this spell cannot be detected by Detect Magic and similar effects, except those created by 5th-level or higher spells.

martyboy74
2007-11-07, 05:43 PM
Would that spell include Teleport/DD effects? Is so, it seems like it could possibly be a little powerful.

Indon
2007-11-07, 05:54 PM
So, wait, why can't you dispel the entrance to a Rope Trick as its' own magical effect, even if you can't dispel the entire spell itself?

Irreverent Fool
2007-11-07, 06:09 PM
So, wait, why can't you dispel the entrance to a Rope Trick as its' own magical effect, even if you can't dispel the entire spell itself?

The spell is on the rope.

Indon
2007-11-07, 06:18 PM
The spell is on the rope.

So if you cast an Antimagic Field and engulf the entrance with it, but not the rope, the hole to an extradimensional space remains unmolested?

Kantolin
2007-11-07, 06:49 PM
Rope trick is fine if you are just trying to avoid unwanted encounters in the middle of the night. But if you are deep into enemy territory? One would be well advised to not catch oneself in what is essentially a very tight corner.

I never quite understood why people mention this. It seems to me that hiding in a rope trick at night deep in enemy territory is far superior to simply setting up your camp in enemy territory without defenses.

Starbuck_II
2007-11-07, 08:12 PM
So if you cast an Antimagic Field and engulf the entrance with it, but not the rope, the hole to an extradimensional space remains unmolested?

Correct. This is because Antimagic field cannot cross planes.

MrNexx
2007-11-07, 08:26 PM
This is a spell I hope they fix in 4th edition.

As it is, there is an expensive way of trapping someone in a Rope Trick... Forbiddance. If you know where they are, you can basically make it impossible for them to leave a Rope Trick and, when the RT spell ends, they've got a severe problem... they can't go back, and they can't stay.

Corinthus
2007-11-08, 07:20 AM
Okay, so as far as rope trick is concerned, IF you can find the portal to the extradimensional space, and it doesnt close when the rope is pulled up, (Im a bit unsure on these points), there exists a simple counter. One performable by most classes.

Throw a bag of holding in there. Sure, the notes on the spell just say hazardous, but im fairly sure that bad things will then happen to the people in there. Collapse, interdimensional rift, its an open book for the dm to toy with. (and seriously, what dm isnt going to toy with his players?)

preserver3
2007-11-08, 07:37 AM
The solution to Rope Trick are two Walls of Stone.
Since effects can't cross the boundary putting a wall of stone there would be like putting an Iris over a Stargate. You can't cast Disintegrate through the "iris", and your only exit is the termination of the spell or a more powerful transport across dimensional space.

"Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends."

If a second wall is cast on top of the first, thus creating a sandwich where the 'iris" is the invisible contents of that sandwich, at the termination of the spell, the contents will be dropped out (I'd say extruded) between the two walls.

Telok
2007-11-08, 08:00 AM
Something about this debate that's always been a bit puzzling to me is the insistance about being able to cast Dispel Magic at the rope that the Rope Trick spell is centered on.

From my reading of Dispel Magic and the way that everybody I've ever gamed with has used it, you should just be able to cast it on the invisible window created by the Rope Trick in order to dispel. Even failing that an area dispel will still catch the window and dispel the Rope Trick.

Dausuul
2007-11-08, 08:28 AM
So if you cast an Antimagic Field and engulf the entrance with it, but not the rope, the hole to an extradimensional space remains unmolested?

Correct. This is because Antimagic field cannot cross planes.

Errr... no. Antimagic field will suppress areas of magic effects that fall within it, even if the origin of the effect is outside the field. So antimagic field would not shut down the rope trick itself (the extradimensional space would remain unaffected), but the entrance to it, which is on the Material Plane, would disappear.


Something about this debate that's always been a bit puzzling to me is the insistance about being able to cast Dispel Magic at the rope that the Rope Trick spell is centered on.

From my reading of Dispel Magic and the way that everybody I've ever gamed with has used it, you should just be able to cast it on the invisible window created by the Rope Trick in order to dispel. Even failing that an area dispel will still catch the window and dispel the Rope Trick.

It's not clear whether a targeted dispel can target the rope trick. An area dispel would have to hit the point of origin, which is the rope, in order to actually negate the spell entirely, and rope trick specifically blocks area effects from crossing the "window."

...but, I just noticed that an area-effect dispel magic will suppress the part of a spell effect that falls within its area, even if the point of origin is not inside that area. So if you hit the window with dispel magic, the dimensional interface is shut down even though the extradimensional space remains, leaving the occupants trapped inside until the spell ends.

daggaz
2007-11-08, 08:40 AM
I never quite understood why people mention this. It seems to me that hiding in a rope trick at night deep in enemy territory is far superior to simply setting up your camp in enemy territory without defenses.

Because you can always set up defenses. And alarms. And an escape plan. (teleport, anybody?) If you are holed up inside of a ropetrick, you cannot do any of these things. All you can do is poke your head out in the morning and hope to god that nobody is there waiting for you.

daggaz
2007-11-08, 08:42 AM
The solution to Rope Trick are two Walls of Stone.
Since effects can't cross the boundary putting a wall of stone there would be like putting an Iris over a Stargate. You can't cast Disintegrate through the "iris", and your only exit is the termination of the spell or a more powerful transport across dimensional space.

"Anything inside the extradimensional space drops out when the spell ends."

If a second wall is cast on top of the first, thus creating a sandwich where the 'iris" is the invisible contents of that sandwich, at the termination of the spell, the contents will be dropped out (I'd say extruded) between the two walls.

(sorry guys I cant seem to figure out how to do double quotes)

If you dimdoor/teleport/are magically moved into a solid substance etc.. There is a rule for that. You take I think 1d6 damage (not really that much) and move five feet towards the nearest free space. Continue until you are free. You don't get "extruded" into a mushy paste between the two walls.

Dausuul
2007-11-08, 09:31 AM
Because you can always set up defenses. And alarms. And an escape plan. (teleport, anybody?) If you are holed up inside of a ropetrick, you cannot do any of these things. All you can do is poke your head out in the morning and hope to god that nobody is there waiting for you.

You can do any or all of those things and then set up a rope trick as well. And in the morning, you look out through the magic window that lets you see what's going on in the Material Plane, and if somebody is waiting for you, just plane shift out of there.

Indon
2007-11-08, 09:32 AM
(sorry guys I cant seem to figure out how to do double quotes)

If you dimdoor/teleport/are magically moved into a solid substance etc.. There is a rule for that. You take I think 1d6 damage (not really that much) and move five feet towards the nearest free space. Continue until you are free. You don't get "extruded" into a mushy paste between the two walls.

I dunno, taking 1-5D6 can be pretty mushifying for a level 3-5 spellcaster.

Roderick_BR
2007-11-08, 02:30 PM
Hey, question. Wizard goes into rope trick or MM entrance. Other wizard (or someone with UMD) sees it, and knows where the entrance is. Can he cast a Dimensional Anchor in the area, effectively "trapping" the wizard out of the material plane? Crossing the entrance counts as planar travel?
And if it does, can he try to change where the entrance is?

Kaelik
2007-11-08, 02:40 PM
Hey, question. Wizard goes into rope trick or MM entrance. Other wizard (or someone with UMD) sees it, and knows where the entrance is. Can he cast a Dimensional Anchor in the area, effectively "trapping" the wizard out of the material plane? Crossing the entrance counts as planar travel?
And if it does, can he try to change where the entrance is?

Dimensional Anchor is a targeted spell, it does nothing when "cast in an area" Dimensional Lock, unless I am mistaken, is specific about blocking planar travel, however, walking through a portal doesn't count as Planar travel in the same sense as teleporting/plane shifting.

skywalker
2007-11-08, 03:04 PM
Throw a bag of holding in there. Sure, the notes on the spell just say hazardous, but im fairly sure that bad things will then happen to the people in there. Collapse, interdimensional rift, its an open book for the dm to toy with. (and seriously, what dm isnt going to toy with his players?)

A nice one?

A DM who likes all his fingers?

Dausuul
2007-11-08, 03:06 PM
Hey, question. Wizard goes into rope trick or MM entrance. Other wizard (or someone with UMD) sees it, and knows where the entrance is. Can he cast a Dimensional Anchor in the area, effectively "trapping" the wizard out of the material plane? Crossing the entrance counts as planar travel?
And if it does, can he try to change where the entrance is?

Dimensional lock bars "extradimensional travel," and the rope trick is an extradimensional space, so it seems likely that this would, in fact, lock the wizard out of the Material Plane.

The question then is what happens when the rope trick expires. The most likely explanation is that the wizard in the rope trick would be shunted to the outside edge of the dimensional lock effect... but that's no fun. Were I DMing, I'd probably dump the wizard in the Astral Plane, or someplace even weirder.

Indon
2007-11-08, 03:08 PM
A nice one?

A DM who likes all his fingers?

To make sure, you could rig some kind of clockwork device of springs and such that inverts it for you a second or two after springing a pin, making a kind of "Bag of Holding Grenade".

Edit: Actually, does Bag of Holding do that? I forget.

Kaelik
2007-11-08, 03:35 PM
Dimensional lock bars "extradimensional travel," and the rope trick is an extradimensional space, so it seems likely that this would, in fact, lock the wizard out of the Material Plane.

Except that "barring extradimensional travel" is clearly addressing things like Planeshift, but would you argue that for example, the Big bit in the Center of Baator could stop granting access to the other layers of hell if you just tossed Dimensional Lock on it? Portals that exist for the sole purpose of allowing passage between other planes without actually using a method of extradimensional travel (Plnaeshift) would not be that easily blocked.

The point is that portals are different then traveling. Because of the way the magic works, walking through a portal is not the same as traveling extradimensionally, because you'd have to already be on the plane that you can't travel to before it could try to stop you.

Maerok
2007-11-08, 04:05 PM
Who thought of rope trick to begin with? It seems like a rather odd spell to have dreamed up...

horseboy
2007-11-08, 04:12 PM
Who thought of rope trick to begin with? It seems like a rather odd spell to have dreamed up...

As far as I can tell, it's based on a Baudville magic trick. A guy dresses up in a bad Yogi outfit and plays a flute, kind of like a snake charmer, only instead of a snake there's a rope. At the end, to "prove" that it was real, he'd climb up the rope and disappear up in the rigging of the stage.

Kurald Galain
2007-11-08, 04:47 PM
As far as I can tell, it's based on a Baudville magic trick. A guy dresses up in a bad Yogi outfit and plays a flute, kind of like a snake charmer, only instead of a snake there's a rope. At the end, to "prove" that it was real, he'd climb up the rope and disappear up in the rigging of the stage.

Exactly.

Legend has it that Fakirs from India can do the same, only without the stage. So they literally appear into thin air (and the rope tends to fall down).

Bender
2007-11-08, 05:01 PM
I dunno, taking 1-5D6 can be pretty mushifying for a level 3-5 spellcaster.

Is 1-5D6 the best you can do with two level 5 spells? And is a 9th level wizard going to waste his time going after some 3rd levels?

EDIT: otherwise I do like the extrusion effect :smalltongue:. It just sounds more academic than actually useful.

Telok
2007-11-08, 06:10 PM
...but, I just noticed that an area-effect dispel magic will suppress the part of a spell effect that falls within its area, even if the point of origin is not inside that area. So if you hit the window with dispel magic, the dimensional interface is shut down even though the extradimensional space remains, leaving the occupants trapped inside until the spell ends.

Alright, I think I see where the major difference is. My people play that extradimensional space more like a bit of folded around real-space rather than the hotel room in the astral plane. The reason it makes a difference is because the way we play involves astral encounters when large disturbances occur in the astral plane. Groups of people popping in and out, room and house sized chunks of space suddenly having something in them, things of that nature tend to attract attention after a couple of hours.

So under our methods suppressing the entry window actually suppresses the whole spell.

cupkeyk
2007-11-08, 06:17 PM
An inanimate object, an unliving creature holding still, or a completely immobile creature is even harder to spot (DC 40).

The opening is hard, but not impossible to spot. (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/abilitiesAndConditions.html#invisibility)

TimeWizard
2007-11-08, 06:40 PM
Is casting MMM in Rope Trick like overstepping the boundaries of Wish or are there concrete rules for it?

MrNexx
2007-11-08, 07:47 PM
Because you can always set up defenses. And alarms. And an escape plan. (teleport, anybody?) If you are holed up inside of a ropetrick, you cannot do any of these things. All you can do is poke your head out in the morning and hope to god that nobody is there waiting for you.

Actually, you can't teleport out of a Rope Trick. You're in an extradimensional space, and Teleport won't cross dimensions... all you could do is teleport to the other side of the rope trick room.

FWIW, the duration of Rope Trick in 2e was 20 minutes/level.

deadseashoals
2007-11-08, 07:49 PM
Except that "barring extradimensional travel" is clearly addressing things like Planeshift, but would you argue that for example, the Big bit in the Center of Baator could stop granting access to the other layers of hell if you just tossed Dimensional Lock on it? Portals that exist for the sole purpose of allowing passage between other planes without actually using a method of extradimensional travel (Plnaeshift) would not be that easily blocked.

The point is that portals are different then traveling. Because of the way the magic works, walking through a portal is not the same as traveling extradimensionally, because you'd have to already be on the plane that you can't travel to before it could try to stop you.

The portal created by a rope trick causes you to travel from an extradimensional space to another dimension. How is that not extradimensional travel? And how is the spell stopping you from getting into a place being placed on the place itself any different from, say, attempting to teleport into an area of forbiddance? Clearly, that isn't allowed.

Nothing about the spell prevents you from entering the rope trick when the rope is pulled up if:

* There are less than eight creatures in the space
* The creature can see invisible entities, or the creature knows the rope trick is there
* The creature can fly or otherwise reach the window

Additionally, why can't you use a targeted dispel on the spell itself:


Targeted Dispel

One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make a dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell or against each ongoing spell currently in effect on the object or creature. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed on a particular check, that spell is dispelled; if you fail, that spell remains in effect.

Alternately, you could just hit the window with an area dispel. Despite the rope being inside the rope trick, you'd certainly blast away the entire area of the window. In that case, I'd have to rule that either the window is gone, and they're sealed inside until the end of the spell (at which point you can steal their bags of holding), or the spell ends.

Or, if you're a BBEG, and you don't want people rope tricking it up in your lair, just cast forbiddance or unhallow with an anchored dimensional anchor.

Starbuck_II
2007-11-08, 07:59 PM
Alternately, you could just hit the window with an area dispel. Despite the rope being inside the rope trick, you'd certainly blast away the entire area of the window. In that case, I'd have to rule that either the window is gone, and they're sealed inside until the end of the spell (at which point you can steal their bags of holding), or the spell ends.

Or, if you're a BBEG, and you don't want people rope tricking it up in your lair, just cast forbiddance or unhallow with an anchored dimensional anchor.

But that is rule Zero.
We are discussing what actual rules allow I thought.
Dispel magic can't target anything inside rope trick (barring Transdimensional metamagic thingy. The rope has to be dispelled since it is the target (of spell called Rope Trick). Thus, since you never dispelled the rope: the dispel fizzles.

Dausuul
2007-11-09, 12:47 AM
But that is rule Zero.
We are discussing what actual rules allow I thought.
Dispel magic can't target anything inside rope trick (barring Transdimensional metamagic thingy. The rope has to be dispelled since it is the target (of spell called Rope Trick). Thus, since you never dispelled the rope: the dispel fizzles.

It is not Rule Zero, it's RAW. Read the description of area dispel again. You only need to hit the point of origin if you want to dispel the spell entirely. If you don't hit the origin, you still dispel whatever part of the spell's AoE falls within the dispelled region; which is what Deadseashoals is talking about.

The extradimensional space, being outside the dispelled region, survives. The entrance on the Material Plane, being inside the dispelled region, doesn't.

Bender
2007-11-09, 02:05 AM
It is not Rule Zero, it's RAW. Read the description of area dispel again. You only need to hit the point of origin if you want to dispel the spell entirely. If you don't hit the origin, you still dispel whatever part of the spell's AoE falls within the dispelled region; which is what Deadseashoals is talking about.

The extradimensional space, being outside the dispelled region, survives. The entrance on the Material Plane, being inside the dispelled region, doesn't.
Calling it RAW seems a bit exaggerated. I think a lot in this thread is open for discussion and not completely covered by RAW. The spell description is too fuzzy to call any conclusion RAW.
The spell says the window is on the material plane, but doesn't say anything about the entrance. My interpretation is that the rope itself is the entrance, which means that once the rope is inside there is no entrance, so you can't dispel it and you can't fly in.
You could probably dispel the window, but not necessarily anything else (without transdimensional spell).

A weird interpretation is that the window is a solid, invisible object, and you crush into it if you fly/fall into it.
Or it might not be a solid object, but only a manifestation of the window in the extradimensional space, which reappears the round after it is dispelled.
It's all fuzzy

Aquillion
2007-11-09, 02:22 AM
All of this relies on something finding the Rope Trick. That could be tricky, unless the dungeon is absolutely crawling with things that see invisible and are intelligent / knowledgable enough about magic to know what they're looking at (or report to someone who would.) Especially since, with the rope pulled up, the entrance itself is going to be hidden high up near the ceiling, in the rafters, usually in the most out-of-the-way place the party can find.

Realistically, it's only going to be discovered if the enemy is specifically looking for it, or if the DM is being a jerk.

...also, is it even possible to enter a rope trick without climbing the rope? I always thought the spell was a bit unclear on this.

deadseashoals
2007-11-09, 04:12 AM
Calling it RAW seems a bit exaggerated. I think a lot in this thread is open for discussion and not completely covered by RAW. The spell description is too fuzzy to call any conclusion RAW.
The spell says the window is on the material plane, but doesn't say anything about the entrance. My interpretation is that the rope itself is the entrance, which means that once the rope is inside there is no entrance, so you can't dispel it and you can't fly in.
You could probably dispel the window, but not necessarily anything else (without transdimensional spell).

A weird interpretation is that the window is a solid, invisible object, and you crush into it if you fly/fall into it.
Or it might not be a solid object, but only a manifestation of the window in the extradimensional space, which reappears the round after it is dispelled.
It's all fuzzy

Saying the spell ends if the window is dispelled is indeed rule zero. Saying the spell is dispelled within the area of the area dispel is 100% pure RAW. That's how dispel magic works. What happens after is up for debate, but it would seem a bit ridiculous to say that absolutely nothing happens if the window is gone.

The rope is NOT the entrace. The spell says (among other things):

1) The rope hangs in the air from an extradimensional space
2) The rope can be pulled into the space
3) The interface (i.e. the portal) blocks line of effect
4) One-way line of sight exists from the extradimensional space outwards, as if through a 3'x5' window
5) The window exists on the Material Plane
6) The window is invisible

That's it. It does not say you can only climb into the window via the rope. It does not even say you can climb into the window via the rope. Therefore, it is assumed that you can climb into the window via the rope, since to assume otherwise is ridiculous. Yet, somehow, not everyone agrees that you can reach the space without climbing the rope?

Fly into the damned rope trick if you can't dispel it.

Of course, you should just dispel the spell if you're capable of seeing it.

tyckspoon
2007-11-09, 04:34 AM
The window must exist on both the Material and within the extradimensional space, yes? If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to leave the Rope Trick by any means short of it collapsing and tossing you out. Since the spell specifically says effects cannot cross over the dimensional boundary, there is an argument that states that the dispel only suppresses the portal on the Material side of it. That could mean that all you achieve with a dispel is making the Rope Trick more secure- the portal is now a one-way passage leading from the dimensional space back to the real world.

Bender
2007-11-09, 07:23 AM
Saying the spell ends if the window is dispelled is indeed rule zero. Saying the spell is dispelled within the area of the area dispel is 100% pure RAW. That's how dispel magic works. What happens after is up for debate, but it would seem a bit ridiculous to say that absolutely nothing happens if the window is gone.
RAW can be ridiculous. Besides, personally, I don't see why the extradimensional space can't exist without the window.


The rope is NOT the entrace. The spell says (among other things):

1) The rope hangs in the air from an extradimensional space
2) The rope can be pulled into the space3) The interface (i.e. the portal) blocks line of effect
4) One-way line of sight exists from the extradimensional space outwards, as if through a 3'x5' window
5) The window exists on the Material Plane
6) The window is invisible
So you give six points, none of which say that the rope is not the entrance, and none of which say that the window/interface is the entrance. So it can't be RAW to say that the rope is not the entrance, neither is it RAW to say it is. That's why I started my argument with My interpretation is...

That's it. It does not say you can only climb into the window via the rope. It does not even say you can climb into the window via the rope. Therefore, it is assumed that you can climb into the window via the rope, since to assume otherwise is ridiculous. Yet, somehow, not everyone agrees that you can reach the space without climbing the rope?
If you have to assume something, it's not RAW (it might be RAI if it is without argue to assume something). In my interpretation the rope is the only means to enter or leave (except when the spell ends), making it impossible to enter or leave if the rope is pulled in. The window is an interface to look through, not to enter through (as it says nowhere that it is). Again, this is my personal interpretation.


Fly into the damned rope trick if you can't dispel it.
Of course, you should just dispel the spell if you're capable of seeing it.
Both of these things rely on interpretation and thus rule zero, but it's fine to play that way. Although it might be dangerous to randomly dispel rope tricks, there might be a much higher level wizard in there than you expected, and he's not going to be happy about being disturbed :smallbiggrin:

deadseashoals
2007-11-09, 09:00 AM
If you have to assume something, it's not RAW (it might be RAI if it is without argue to assume something). In my interpretation the rope is the only means to enter or leave (except when the spell ends), making it impossible to enter or leave if the rope is pulled in. The window is an interface to look through, not to enter through (as it says nowhere that it is). Again, this is my personal interpretation.

That's exactly the point. I said that everyone assumes that you climb into the rope trick via the rope, when in fact it's not even stated in the spell that you do any such thing. It's heavily implied. So if you're going to engage in "it's not RAW" sophistry, you are essentially arguing that the only thing that rope trick does is create an extradimensional space that cannot be entered, and suspend a rope in mid air.

Obviously, this is not the case. You can, in fact, climb the rope and enter the rope trick. The spell is simply not that stupid. So you're going to have to make the very slight leap of logic there.

Now, the spell also says the window exists on the material plane. You can't look through the window on the material plane, so why would it even exist? Obviously, to climb through. Just because it doesn't say otherwise, doesn't mean it's not RAW. If you want to go down that road, the spell does nothing useful, for reasons I already went over.

Bender
2007-11-09, 11:19 AM
That's exactly the point. I said that everyone assumes that you climb into the rope trick via the rope, when in fact it's not even stated in the spell that you do any such thing. It's heavily implied. So if you're going to engage in "it's not RAW" sophistry, you are essentially arguing that the only thing that rope trick does is create an extradimensional space that cannot be entered, and suspend a rope in mid air.

Obviously, this is not the case. You can, in fact, climb the rope and enter the rope trick. The spell is simply not that stupid. So you're going to have to make the very slight leap of logic there.

Now, the spell also says the window exists on the material plane. You can't look through the window on the material plane, so why would it even exist? Obviously, to climb through. Just because it doesn't say otherwise, doesn't mean it's not RAW. If you want to go down that road, the spell does nothing useful, for reasons I already went over.

I have no problem with the interpretation, but I have a problem with calling it RAW, even when admitted to be an interpretation. It might very well be RAI, but I haven't seen evidence of that either.
There are other reasons imaginable for the window to exist: e.g.:it makes it possible for others to find it and set up a trap/ambush. That reason alone could be enough, so it isn't 'obvious' that the window is only for climbing through: it's not RAW, it's interpretation.

Irreverent Fool
2007-11-09, 12:08 PM
Dimensional Anchor is a targeted spell, it does nothing when "cast in an area" Dimensional Lock, unless I am mistaken, is specific about blocking planar travel, however, walking through a portal doesn't count as Planar travel in the same sense as teleporting/plane shifting.

Hm... does it count as a portal then? Can I 'seal portal' it? Because that'd be mean.

Dausuul
2007-11-09, 02:53 PM
RAW can be ridiculous. Besides, personally, I don't see why the extradimensional space can't exist without the window.


So you give six points, none of which say that the rope is not the entrance, and none of which say that the window/interface is the entrance. So it can't be RAW to say that the rope is not the entrance, neither is it RAW to say it is. That's why I started my argument with My interpretation is...

If you have to assume something, it's not RAW (it might be RAI if it is without argue to assume something). In my interpretation the rope is the only means to enter or leave (except when the spell ends), making it impossible to enter or leave if the rope is pulled in. The window is an interface to look through, not to enter through (as it says nowhere that it is). Again, this is my personal interpretation.


Both of these things rely on interpretation and thus rule zero, but it's fine to play that way. Although it might be dangerous to randomly dispel rope tricks, there might be a much higher level wizard in there than you expected, and he's not going to be happy about being disturbed :smallbiggrin:

Interpretation is not rule zero. Rule zero is explicitly changing something in RAW; for example, you think it's ridiculous that ray of enfeeblement works on undead (which, by RAW, it does), so you rule that it doesn't.

Interpretation is simply the act of parsing the rules for the most logical way to apply them. It is virtually impossible to discuss RAW without attempting some interpretation of the text, particularly where oddball spells like rope trick are concerned.

AKA_Bait
2007-11-09, 03:06 PM
I have no problem with the interpretation, but I have a problem with calling it RAW, even when admitted to be an interpretation. It might very well be RAI, but I haven't seen evidence of that either.
There are other reasons imaginable for the window to exist: e.g.:it makes it possible for others to find it and set up a trap/ambush. That reason alone could be enough, so it isn't 'obvious' that the window is only for climbing through: it's not RAW, it's interpretation.

When you read someting, you interpret it. If you want to draw distinctions like that then when we use the term RAW we should all just agree to quote the SRD and make no commentary of our own.

Indon
2007-11-09, 03:15 PM
I have no problem with the interpretation, but I have a problem with calling it RAW, even when admitted to be an interpretation. It might very well be RAI, but I haven't seen evidence of that either.
There are other reasons imaginable for the window to exist: e.g.:it makes it possible for others to find it and set up a trap/ambush. That reason alone could be enough, so it isn't 'obvious' that the window is only for climbing through: it's not RAW, it's interpretation.

By RAW, I don't actually stop _moving_ when I die. That's all just interpretation. :P

If Rope Trick opens a hole, which you can then climb through, it makes sense that it's a door, and that it exists to be a door. It's even an _invisible_ door, with a ridiculous DC to find, so why would it be put in for DM's to let people find it?

Bender
2007-11-09, 04:40 PM
It is virtually impossible to discuss RAW without attempting some interpretation of the text, particularly where oddball spells like rope trick are concerned.
That's my point :smalltongue:. No point calling in 'RAW' arguments when RAW is too fuzzy to be an argument.

By RAW, I don't actually stop _moving_ when I die. That's all just interpretation. :P
And the interpretation is not RAW, in this case, it's RAI. :smallwink:

If Rope Trick opens a hole, which you can then climb through, it makes sense that it's a door, and that it exists to be a door. It's even an _invisible_ door, with a ridiculous DC to find, so why would it be put in for DM's to let people find it?
If it wasn't for people being able to find it, they could as well just have left it out entirely. Besides, it's not a door, it's a window.:smallwink:

Play it as you (or your DM) wants, but don't call it RAW if there are other equally plausible interpretations.

When you read someting, you interpret it. If you want to draw distinctions like that then when we use the term RAW we should all just agree to quote the SRD and make no commentary of our own.
I'm starting to get the feeling there was a problem with my wording as a non-native English person. Everyone seems to have misunderstood what I was trying to say. It's fine to use the term RAW and comment on it, just don't call the comment RAW when there are plenty of possible explanations, some of which may contradict your own. It's misleading.
EDIT: also see this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62832#14), nr 14 :smallamused:

Indon
2007-11-09, 05:14 PM
I'm starting to get the feeling there was a problem with my wording as a non-native English person. Everyone seems to have misunderstood what I was trying to say. It's fine to use the term RAW and comment on it, just don't call the comment RAW when there are plenty of possible explanations, some of which may contradict your own. It's misleading.
EDIT: also see this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62832#14), nr 14 :smallamused:

I don't think it's misleading to say that the explicit and only entrance to a Rope Trick is the entrance to a Rope Trick, and if removed, no longer functions.

Bender
2007-11-09, 05:38 PM
I don't think it's misleading to say that the explicit and only entrance to a Rope Trick is the entrance to a Rope Trick, and if removed, no longer functions.
It's misleading because it suggests that that is the only logical interpretation. But there's no "explicit and only entrance". It's an extradimensional space, and it's magic, that's two reasons why it doesn't have to be easy to visualise in a conventional way. Climbing the rope somehow transfers you to the extradimensional space. How that happens is open for discussion. Claiming that there is only one way to interpret it (and that's what calling it RAW suggests), is misleading.

deadseashoals
2007-11-09, 07:04 PM
Bender, I think it is misleading to say that because it's not explicitly mentioned in the spell description, that it's not RAW.

The rules don't say that you can't take move, standard, or full round actions when afflicted by the "dead" condition.

The rules don't say that any of the core races do not have multiple heads and arms.

The rules don't say that you can enter a rope trick by climbing the rope.

Et cetera.

I repeat, If we were to go by your "only what is stated is RAW" philosophy, the rope trick spell would not do anything, except suspend a rope in mid air. That's it. The idea that you can enter the rope trick with anything short of the wish or gate spell, that's your interpretation.

As I'm sure you at least believe that you can climb into the extradimensional space via the rope, you yourself are making an interpretive leap of logic.

Another interpretive leap of logic - the window exists on the Material Plane. For what purpose, I ask again? How do you enter the extradimensional space? Are you actually suggesting that, by reaching the upper length of the rope and touching it, that you are whisked away into the space? That once the rope is gone, it is no longer possible to attain the condition of touching the rope, and therefore, the extradimensional space is sealed away?

This strikes me as intentionally interpreting the spell in a more absurd fashion than you would otherwise, for the sake of argument. Which would bring us back to the aforementioned "the rules don't say I can't" type of sophistry.

Nowhere Girl
2007-11-09, 07:16 PM
The rules don't say that you can enter a rope trick by climbing the rope.

Et cetera.

I repeat, If we were to go by your "only what is stated is RAW" philosophy, the rope trick spell would not do anything, except suspend a rope in mid air. That's it. The idea that you can enter the rope trick with anything short of the wish or gate spell, that's your interpretation.

Actually, strictly per RAW, the rope can be climbed (by only one person at a time) and used to reach a normal place, as long as the climber doesn't climb all of the way to the extradimensional space. Of course, it doesn't say "into," so nowhere is it explicitly stated that you can enter that space; it actually says in a literal interpretation that you must leave at least a tiny gap between yourself and the space in order to use the rope to climb to a normal location.

Interesting extra tidbits:

- The spell description explicitly states that the rope can only be climbed by one person at a time, but nowhere does it explain why. The rope can be up to 30 feet long and supports up to 16,000 pounds, so it can't be a length or weight issue. Nowhere is it stated what, exactly, happens if more than one person attempts to climb the rope at the same time. I suppose by strict RAW, it simply isn't possible even to attempt it. Perhaps you automatically fail your Climb check (or is even that just my interpretation?). :smalltongue:

- Creatures in the space can pull the rope up and make it disappear. But since nowhere in the spell description does it say how you enter the extradimensional space, how did they get there? :smalleek:

deadseashoals
2007-11-09, 07:56 PM
Actually, strictly per RAW, the rope can be climbed (by only one person at a time) and used to reach a normal place, as long as the climber doesn't climb all of the way to the extradimensional space. Of course, it doesn't say "into," so nowhere is it explicitly stated that you can enter that space; it actually says in a literal interpretation that you must leave at least a tiny gap between yourself and the space in order to use the rope to climb to a normal location.

Interesting extra tidbits:

- The spell description explicitly states that the rope can only be climbed by one person at a time, but nowhere does it explain why. The rope can be up to 30 feet long and supports up to 16,000 pounds, so it can't be a length or weight issue. Nowhere is it stated what, exactly, happens if more than one person attempts to climb the rope at the same time. I suppose by strict RAW, it simply isn't possible even to attempt it. Perhaps you automatically fail your Climb check (or is even that just my interpretation?). :smalltongue:

- Creatures in the space can pull the rope up and make it disappear. But since nowhere in the spell description does it say how you enter the extradimensional space, how did they get there? :smalleek:

Yes, you can suspend the rope and climb it. Hurray, what a useful spell! Now all you need is a wish or gate, and you can even get into that handy extradimensional space :smallconfused:

Bender
2007-11-10, 03:34 AM
Bender, I think it is misleading to say that because it's not explicitly mentioned in the spell description, that it's not RAW.
I don't like to repeat myself, but how can it be RAW if the spell description is vague and allows for multiple interpretations?

The rules don't say that you can't take move, standard, or full round actions when afflicted by the "dead" condition.

The rules don't say that any of the core races do not have multiple heads and arms.
Those are silly comparisons: dead exists in RL and is not ambiguous, humans exist in RL and the other races are assumed to have roughly the same shape.
There is absolutely nothing in RL that even closely resembles a rope trick.

The rules don't say that you can enter a rope trick by climbing the rope.
It is indeed reasonable to assume that, but it is not reasonable to assume that your way of picturing this is the only way.

As I'm sure you at least believe that you can climb into the extradimensional space via the rope, you yourself are making an interpretive leap of logic.
I never said I wasn't doing that, in fact I repeatedly mentioned that what I said was my interpretation.

Another interpretive leap of logic - the window exists on the Material Plane. For what purpose, I ask again? How do you enter the extradimensional space? Are you actually suggesting that, by reaching the upper length of the rope and touching it, that you are whisked away into the space? That once the rope is gone, it is no longer possible to attain the condition of touching the rope, and therefore, the extradimensional space is sealed away?

This strikes me as intentionally interpreting the spell in a more absurd fashion than you would otherwise, for the sake of argument. Which would bring us back to the aforementioned "the rules don't say I can't" type of sophistry.
Well, I hate to disappoint you, but you are completely and utterly wrong here. How I pictured this spell the first time I read it, and how I still picture it is this: you climb the rope and somewhere near the end you are transfered to the extradimentional space by climbing into it. There exist some kind of double reality: when you climb the rope, you end up somewhere else than when you cross the same space in another way. The window is in my picture something separate, only for viewing, and it exists in the material plane because that's how the spell works.
Who are you to say that my imagination is worse than yours? :smallannoyed:

Let's end in an analogy: suppose someone asks you the square root of one?

your answer: it's 1, and only 1
my answer: it can be -1
your answer: negative numbers are absurd, it's 1, when I put it in my calculator, it says 1, not -1
(whether it's 1, -1 or both depends on the situation of course, but that doesn't fit the analogy)
This analogy may be harsh, but that's how your attacks on my interpretation feel like to me.

JaxGaret
2007-11-10, 04:16 AM
Cast Fly on your friends, Teleport straight up a few miles, cast Rope Trick, enter Rope Trick, pull rope after you.

Done and done.

Bender
2007-11-10, 04:52 AM
Cast Fly on your friends, Teleport straight up a few miles, cast Rope Trick, enter Rope Trick, pull rope after you.

Done and done.
That's what I call hidden :smallbiggrin:. You'll have a really nice view too. Just make sure you don't oversleep.

Kantolin
2007-11-10, 09:35 AM
Just make sure you don't oversleep.

Prepare feather fall daily. Just, you know, in case.

JaxGaret
2007-11-10, 12:54 PM
That's what I call hidden :smallbiggrin:. You'll have a really nice view too. Just make sure you don't oversleep.

Well it is a heck of an alarm clock!


Prepare feather fall daily. Just, you know, in case.

Mass Fly is a better option. That is, you know, if you care about your friends :)

Starbuck_II
2007-11-10, 12:58 PM
Well it is a heck of an alarm clock!



Mass Fly is a better option. That is, you know, if you care about your friends :)

Dude, Feather fall lasts 1 round /level. Plus, 1 target/level. Unless you are level 20 with 21 PCs, it won't be a problem.

JaxGaret
2007-11-10, 01:19 PM
Dude, Feather fall lasts 1 round /level. Plus, 1 target/level. Unless you are level 20 with 21 PCs, it won't be a problem.

Feather Fall drops you at 60 feet/round.

At level 10, that is 600 feet of Feather Falling.

You just teleported up several miles - tens of thousands of feet.

Do the math :)

Kaelik
2007-11-10, 02:31 PM
Feather Fall drops you at 60 feet/round.

At level 10, that is 600 feet of Feather Falling.

You just teleported up several miles - tens of thousands of feet.

Do the math :)

That's why you wait until you've almost fallen the whole way. You don't have to open the parachute right after you jump.

Nowhere Girl
2007-11-10, 02:33 PM
Besides, if you're that high up, you're going to black out for a little while due to lack of air. You'll wake up a little later, though, while still plummeting ... so don't worry. :smallbiggrin:

CASTLEMIKE
2007-11-11, 04:21 AM
Curious how Forbiddance would work centered on the window since it prevents all planar travel into or out of it 60' cube a level, if cast after the rope was pulled up (the rope is centered on a point normally 5 - 30' up in the air).

Edit: The rope shouldn't, be able to be relowered since it is in a extradimensional space outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces ("planes").

The same thing should apply to falling out when the spell ends since the entry point is effectively blocked.

Would they be lost between the planes or randomly teleported all over various planes like a random planeshift?

Would that constitue a hazardous situation since the spell would not be able to end normally?

JaxGaret
2007-11-11, 04:45 AM
That's why you wait until you've almost fallen the whole way. You don't have to open the parachute right after you jump.

I hope everyone took ranks in Free Fall Base Docking (http://www.cs.fiu.edu/~esj/uwf/uwf1v.gif) to keep together for that Feather Fall to affect everyone within 20 feet of each other after that multiple-mile drop - otherwise you'll all be scattered all over the place in more ways than one :smallbiggrin:

Bender
2007-11-11, 05:23 AM
Curious how Forbiddance would work centered on the window since it prevents all planar travel into or out of it 60' cube a level, if cast after the rope was pulled up (the rope is centered on a point normally 5 - 30' up in the air).

The rope shouldn't be be able to be relowered since it is in a extradimensional space outside the multiverse of extradimensional spaces ("planes").

The same thing should apply to falling out when the spell ends since the entry point is effectively blocked.

Would they be lost between the planes or randomly teleported all over various planes like a random planeshift?

Would that constitue a hazardous situation since the spell would not be able to end normally?

The most interesting or least plot-breaking effect will occur, depending on the campaign you are in.

Funkyodor
2007-11-11, 05:35 AM
Well, if you got enemies that can see invis, and notice the window, and the rope trick inhabitants don't detect them. All they got to do is lie in ambush till they poke the rope out. Since only one person can use the rope at a time, you dispel the rope trick and "they all fall down", start surprise round...

Same goes for MMM, but they don't have to wait for the rope to come out. Targeted dispel on the entrance and start surprise round...

Works even better for an BBEG with a Crystal Ball of Truesight. Scry around and those pesky shimmering portals and windows should just make him want to fly out and monologue the Heros to death.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-11-11, 07:02 PM
The most interesting or least plot-breaking effect will occur, depending on the campaign you are in.

So it should have some kind of "consistent" effect in a game and could potentially be a useful spell for defeating the Rope Trick or MMM.