Ah ha! The ninja can't be Haley

[Zakama]

In #484, you see the ninja in one of the bubbles in the first splash panel, she's on a ship. In a bubble in the second panel, Haley is in the city. As we can assume these things are happening at the same time, The ninja can't be Haley.

[Ganurath]

You know, you'd think that Therkla being a half-orc would have been enough of a hint, but NO...

[SoD]

Well, disguise is on the rogues in class skills...albeit with a penalty for a different race...

[Caractacus]

You know, you'd think that Therkla being a half-orc would have been enough of a hint, but NO...

Poster) It is Haley!

Gan) No it isn't. It's a half-orc.


Poster #2) Hey wow guys its Halley!!!

Gan) No, She's called Therkla. She's green.


Poster #3) Hailey was killed an now shes resurekted and working for Kubota!!!

Gan) This half-orc has been seen at the same time as Haley. It's not her.


You can't even slow 'em down, Ganurath; it's crazy to think you can stop 'em.


(Apologies to Zakama and SoD if they haven't read the main thread yet. But, you know, you should have done... :smalltongue: )

[Maratanos]

Yes. This will likely be the new "V's gender" till we next see Haley.

Even then, someone's gonna follow the other equally ridiculous idea, that it's a goblin. A very specific goblin from the SoD.




It's a funny thing, really. We always want to see order, see connetions, so badly that we see them when they aren't there. It's a very old tendency, perhaps as old as humans themselves. Certainly as old as the Renaissance. Francis Bacon, one of the starters of the Scientific Revolution, named it as one of his four Idols of the Mind. He called it "the Idols of the Tribe". It was humanities tendency to see more order and regularity in a system than was actually there, and claimed it resulted from people's preconceived notions.

Maybe that's where it comes from, maybe not. But it's there, all right. It's everywhere.

Like it or not, it's here.

[EvilJames]

Who on earth was saying that the ninja was haley?:smallconfused: that doesn't even begin to make sense.

[Maratanos]

Who on earth was saying that the ninja was haley?:smallconfused: that doesn't even begin to make sense.

Half a dozen people. Another half say she's

(SoD spoilers)
Right-eye's missing daughter. Which is equally ridiculous because said daughter was sent away to be raised by HUMANS... not half-orcs.

[Zakama]

Poster) It is Haley!

Gan) No it isn't. It's a half-orc.


Poster #2) Hey wow guys its Halley!!!

Gan) No, She's called Therkla. She's green.


Poster #3) Hailey was killed an now shes resurekted and working for Kubota!!!

Gan) This half-orc has been seen at the same time as Haley. It's not her.


You can't even slow 'em down, Ganurath; it's crazy to think you can stop 'em.


(Apologies to Zakama and SoD if they haven't read the main thread yet. But, you know, you should have done... :smalltongue: )

Does Therkla show up in SoD? I haven't read it, so sorry if this is blatantly obvious.

[Chrismith]

Half a dozen people. Another half say she's

(SoD spoilers)
Right-eye's missing daughter. Which is equally ridiculous because said daughter was sent away to be raised by HUMANS... not half-orcs.

Regardless of that...

Goblins have yellow eyes and a different color of skin. See here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html).

[FoE]

No she doesn't. And quite frankly the whole "Haley is the ninja" theory is pretty DUMB. Report me to the mods if you will, but I stand by my statement.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Right-eye's missing daughter. Which is equally ridiculous because said daughter was sent away to be raised by HUMANS... not half-orcs.

Well, it *is* impossible, but not because of that:



Being raised by half-orcs does not make you look like a half-orc
The actual quote is that *she* was sent away to be raised by humans... or something worse.


I'm fairly certain the subsequent posters who say Therkla = Haley are just trying to stoke the Internet Backdraft (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.InternetBackdraft) and that the original-original poster probably said it as a joke. It is absolutely obvious that Therkla cannot be Haley, unless you presume that in the subsequent months Haley swam across the sea to a rapidly moving fleet of ships, found Therkla, killed her, and flawlessly assumed her disguise, even though Therkla's boss is probably demonic, but certainly telepathic.

Now, there are very good reasons why Therkla cannot be *her* too:
As Ganurath pointed out (many, many times), Goblins have a very different physiology from what we see in Therkla. Whether or not she is half-orc remains to be seen (though it is likely) but she is certainly not a Goblin.

Yet, if the above tinfoil-hat crazy theory is correct, it would be awesome... and by that I mean totally sweet.

As such, I invoke the Rule of Cool (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.RuleOfCool) to declare my theory correct by fiat. In the (likely) event I am wrong, I shall still have hopes that *she* will appear later in OotS (in an equivalently awesome sense).

However, if I am right... I'll have showed you all! You, who laughed at my theories, calling them mad, mad! Muwahahahahaha!

[SoD]

My beleif, although simple, is thus: Therkla=some random half orc ninja (possibly assassin) who, until now, has had nothing to do with the comic, except for appearing once.

Although it tecnically is possible for Haley to've killed the real Therkla and then disguised herself as Therkla and managed to trick everyone...somehow I doubt it. Also, Therkla=half orc (possibly full blooded orc...don't think we've seen one yet), NOT a goblin.

My theory will never gain any appeal, it makes to much sense...I know! Therkla is V, who is secretly in legue with the weird black disembodied voice and is, in fact, having romantic experiences with him, but, in reality, it's Hinjo in disguise, and the Hinjo everyone thinks is real is just an illusion Elan created so nobody would panic when the real Hinjo went missing on his watch, and the real Hinjo doesn't know that Therkla is really V! It's so crazy and impossible, people will start saying it everywhere! Yes! Instant fame!

@ Oraclehunter: and they think that you're mad.

[Oracle_Hunter]

My theory will never gain any appeal, it makes to much sense...I know! Therkla is V, who is secretly in legue with the weird black disembodied voice and is, in fact, having romantic experiences with him, but, in reality, it's Hinjo in disguise, and the Hinjo everyone thinks is real is just an illusion Elan created so nobody would panic when the real Hinjo went missing on his watch, and the real Hinjo doesn't know that Therkla is really V! It's so crazy and impossible, people will start saying it everywhere! Yes! Instant fame!

@ Oraclehunter: and they think that you're mad.

Don't try to out-crazy the founding member of the Tinfoil Hats Alliance! You clearly haven't read my theory from the Girl Genius thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4818&page=7), which is even crazier than that... because it involves Time Travel (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.TimeTravel)!

BTW if you don't read it, you should! Here (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/)!

[SoD]

Oh, please. I may not have started the Tinfoil Hats Alliance, but have you created a religion that worships a Flying Moose and a LLama in a Tree and fears the Floating Head of Doom Mwahaha? I think not. And that's without even trying.

[dehro]

her being Haley is about as stupid as thinking miko really is thor in disguise...if nothing else, she'd call him by his name..

I'd love the notion of her being a goblin and somehow related to redcloak
(I'd love to see her side with the OOTS in that case..and confront her "relation"...or even better..confront Haley when she joins the party again..a pirate-oriented rogue and a ninja having a scrap over their loved one..:smallbiggrin: )

but this is surely out of the question.
I've no idea of how you guys got to the conclusion she must be a half-orc...but I don't really care
I do have one doubt, however....who the heck is Right-eye...and what am I missing here?
and aren't we giving too much attention to a npc of near 0 value?
it seems that the "boobs factor" has cut in once again

[Emanick]

You know, without Redcloak casting Time Stop, getting a hobgoblin wizard or Azure refugee wizard to Teleport her onto the boat, then Charming the demon and Kubota into thinking that they know her, then having a change of heart and not killing them, Haley couldn't be the Half-Orc Ninja.
Plus, he'd have to get a druid to Reincarnate her...
So it's possible, but there's a 0.5% chance. I can't really believe the people who think it's Haley. :smalltongue:

[Maratanos]

I've no idea of how you guys got to the conclusion she must be a half-orc...but I don't really care

Well, regardless of whether or not you care, here's the reason AGAIN for posterity: she has the same skin color.

Yup, that's pretty much it. Not the greatest reason, but Occam's razor kills just about anything else in the absence of further information.



I do have one doubt, however....who the heck is Right-eye...and what am I missing here?

Right-Eye is from Start of Darkness: (SoD spoiler)
specifically, he's Redcloak's little brother. He's dead, too.


and aren't we giving too much attention to a npc of near 0 value?
it seems that the "boobs factor" has cut in once again

No, we're not giving her too much attention because she's not an NPC of near 0 value.

Not even close. We've had Kazumi and Daigo tagging along with the PCs off and on for probably 50 strips by now. They started out nameless, for pity's sake. And now they're probably the only pro-Hinjo nobles around. They're certainly not "near-zero value".

And Therkla's gotten a name right away. Every single named NPC has either only appeared had a fair amount of significance for at least a small portion of the comic.

For God's sake, she's an assassin. Trying to kill HINJO. That alone gives her a great deal of significance, especially since she's ALSO named.

[dehro]

And Therkla's gotten a name right away. Every single named NPC has either only appeared had a fair amount of significance for at least a small portion of the comic.

For God's sake, she's an assassin. Trying to kill HINJO. That alone gives her a great deal of significance, especially since she's ALSO named.

you might be right, but it's still a "boobies factor", if you ask me..
but yeah..I guess we'll see her again

[David Argall]

To pound another nail into the coffin of Haley the half-orc ninja:

Both plot and the facts put Haley still in the city.
Plot utilty should be obvious, but Durkon, and likely V, have presumably been sending daily messages to Haley. While mechanics are not necessarily certain, it would be amazing if they did not know whether the message was blocked [=Haley is still in city] instead of received [=Haley out of city]. They may have trouble locating Haley, but they would know she is out of the city and alive. Since they don't know this, Haley is not on the ship with them.

Now if we insist on an explanation for a "resemblance" between the two ladies beyond that stick figures just don't allow infinite variation, the ninja is Haley's half sister. Dad seems to have been a travelling man [sometimes necessary for a rogue with the law after him] and had a little fun with an orc lass some years back. That might even work out as plot useful.

[Max_Sinister]

Hey, that's even an original idea.

[Occasional Sage]

Who on earth was saying that the ninja was haley?:smallconfused: that doesn't even begin to make sense.

"Sense" is something for which I've mostly given up looking. For the good aprt of your sanity, the part you want to keep, I recommend a similar abandonment.

[Maratanos]

you might be right, but it's still a "boobies factor", if you ask me..
but yeah..I guess we'll see her again

:durkon: Gah! Get yer stinkin' mind outta tha gutter!


Seriously. Out of EVERYTHING I've read, YOU are the ONLY PERSON proposing ANYONE has an attraction toward Therkla.

[daggaz]

[QUOTE=Maratanos;3479537]Yes. This will likely be the new "V's gender" till we next see Haley.[QUOTE]

Wait! Are you implying that we have seen V's "thingy"?!

[Ganurath]

:durkon: Gah! Get yer stinkin' mind outta tha gutter!


Seriously. Out of EVERYTHING I've read, YOU are the ONLY PERSON proposing ANYONE has an attraction toward Therkla.I'll consider this proof that everything I've said about Therkla is being ignored en masse, not just the piles of logic pointing away from her being Haley or a goblin.

[Tor the Fallen]

Yes. This will likely be the new "V's gender" till we next see Haley.

Even then, someone's gonna follow the other equally ridiculous idea, that it's a goblin. A very specific goblin from the SoD.




It's a funny thing, really. We always want to see order, see connetions, so badly that we see them when they aren't there. It's a very old tendency, perhaps as old as humans themselves. Certainly as old as the Renaissance. Francis Bacon, one of the starters of the Scientific Revolution, named it as one of his four Idols of the Mind. He called it "the Idols of the Tribe". It was humanities tendency to see more order and regularity in a system than was actually there, and claimed it resulted from people's preconceived notions.

Maybe that's where it comes from, maybe not. But it's there, all right. It's everywhere.

Like it or not, it's here.

It's a soap opera of a webcomic, about D&D, written by a human. You'd be a moron to say it WASN'T ordered.

[Charles Phipps]

You know, you'd think that Therkla being a half-orc would have been enough of a hint, but NO...

She could be Haley's Half-Orc near identical sister.

[Maratanos]

It's a soap opera of a webcomic, about D&D, written by a human. You'd be a moron to say it WASN'T ordered.

Nah, you missed it. There is a certain level of order, interconnectivity, correlation in anything. The point is we see MORE than there is.

If there weren't this tendency, this image (http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif) would never have been created.


I'm not saying OotS is random. I'm just saying it's not Dirk Gently. It's not random, but neither is Therkla Haley.

[mikeejimbo]

Nah, you missed it. There is a certain level of order, interconnectivity, correlation in anything. The point is we see MORE than there is.

If there weren't this tendency, this image (http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool4.gif) would never have been created.


I'm not saying OotS is random. I'm just saying it's not Dirk Gently. It's not random, but neither is Therkla Haley.

I have to say that you bring up a good point.

I also have to say that I find it humorous that I recall hearing about the correlation between the number of pirates and global before.

[Maratanos]

I have to say that you bring up a good point.

I also have to say that I find it humorous that I recall hearing about the correlation between the number of pirates and global before.

Of course you did. Check the URL. Venganza.org is the homepage of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster... ;)

[Spiky]

I think people are missing a key point. Some seem to think this ninja is Haley because she is attracted to Elan. Actually a couple points:

All the females in OOTS have been attracted to Elan. And, I might add, all the females on this forum. And apparently, several of the males. IOW, it's hardly noteworthy.

Point 2: The words this person said are nothing like Haley's words. The Giant doesn't typically make mistakes like that. It's someone else, folks.

[kpenguin]

Point 2: The words this person said are nothing like Haley's words. The Giant doesn't typically make mistakes like that. It's someone else, folks.

Yeah. There would have been a "tee-hee" somewhere in there.

[CabbageTheif]

the connection that i would like to see?

although this ninja is a completley new character, her plot with the floaty voice is connected to the attempt-assassination on the king of nowhere. either it is the king, or the person who wanted to kill the king and hired the dwarf and shadowdancer.

and as an adjective, its "the plot seemed rather tinfoilhattish". as a noun, "miko coming back? not this tinfoilhattery again!". adverb, "these haley-elan crazed people are tinfoilhattly chatting up the board when real analysis needs to be done!"

this has been Common with Cabbage. join us next time where we will tell you what is, and isnt, a polite way to blubber helplessy in front of a frost giant/weredragon.

[Twisted Otaku]

She could be Haley's Half-Orc near identical sister.

You know I hate to say this, but that sounds like something Nale would say to trick Elan just because it's "Needlessly complicated"

[Caractacus]

I'll consider this proof that everything I've said about Therkla is being ignored en masse, not just the piles of logic pointing away from her being Haley or a goblin.

I noticed - maybe I have a ranks in Spot Clearly Stated? :smalltongue:

[dehro]

:durkon: Gah! Get yer stinkin' mind outta tha gutter!


Seriously. Out of EVERYTHING I've read, YOU are the ONLY PERSON proposing ANYONE has an attraction toward Therkla.

nah... all I say is these topics tend to emerge and multiply in a thousandfold wild theories mostly when the character in question is of the female persuasion.