Would the undead warlock from ua be a good or bad thing for 5e?

[Rfkannen]

A character bound to an evil undead who uses the power granted by their undead master to slowly become undead themselves is one of the coolest ideas that 5e ever published, it fits everything about my tastes. Its just a shame that the undying warlock from sword coast's guide was bad, and not even bad in a fun way, just kind of bland and forgettable. No matter how much I like that flavor, I am not going to roll one of those up, because I can tell I just wouldn't have much fun.

In a game I ran I had a player make a character who was a gambler who had won a game of dice against the grim reaper and gained a new life for it, and she decided to reflavor a fiend warlock instead of using the undying for the same reason, undying just seemed boring. That characters whole goal was to become a litch, yet undying was just that unappealing.

So in theory I like the idea of fixing the undying warlock, but I am not sure how I feel about the undeath warlock from unearthed arcana.

I mean the undead warlock has the same flavor as the undying. It has the EXACT same flavor, it isn't just another undead themed warlock, its an undeath themed warlock specifically themed around becoming undead. Its basically just undying but with actually fun abilities and a better implementation of the theme.



A big part of me doesn't like the idea of having options that just are flat out better versions of previous options. Like I am okay with the fathomless, because even though it is a better Cthulhu themed warlock than great old one, it goes at the theme from a different way, so goo isn't just invalidated. However after undeath comes out, I see literally no reason to ever roll up an undying warlock.

But also, if undeath warlock gets published I am rolling one up IMEDIATLY, IT LOOKS SO COOL! And I honestly am glad that they made a better version of the theme I liked so much.

what do you think? Would it better for 5e if the undead warlock was or wasn't published? What do you think about the undying and undeath warlocks? Any other thoughts about undeath warlocks?

[KorvinStarmast]

A character bound to an evil undead who uses the power granted by their undead master to slowly become undead themselves is one of the coolest ideas that 5e ever published, it fits everything about my tastes. Its just a shame that the undying warlock was bad, and not even bad in a fun way, just kind of bland and forgettable. No matter how much I like that flavor, I am not going to roll one of those Are you asking about what tweaks that UA needs to make it fit into the game better?
(For me, the capstone ability would, in theory, be "OK, now you are a liche ... good luck getting a date" or something like that). :smallbiggrin:

[Rfkannen]

Are you asking about what tweaks that UA needs to make it fit into the game better?
(For me, the capstone ability would, in theory, be "OK, now you are a liche ... good luck getting a date" or something like that). :smallbiggrin:

That would be an awesome capstone!

I was more thinking weather the undeath warlock ua should even exist, since we have the undying warlock from scag. I am leaning towards yes it should, though I agree that just flat out being a litch would be cooler than the ghost thing they currently have!

[Jerrykhor]

Yes it should exist. The SCAG version is considered a failure, much like Purple Dragon Knight, the only good thing is that people cannot just say 'just play a paladin'. If they want an undead theme warlock, that's the only one. But the mechanics are really ****ty so...

I agree, an ability that 'manifest your patrons power' sounds like it should be a powerful ability, like a temporary lich form maybe? Should be the level 14 feature.

I'm kind of disillusioned with WotC's warlock ever since i saw a good homebrew where each warlock subclass gets their own version of Eldritch Blast that is flavored to their own theme. And I'm not talking about Celestial Warlock kind of Bonus Cantrip, where they slap on Sacred Flame and call it a day. No, that is lazy and utterly insulting to the players. "Here, your subclass gets something that is worse than what your base class gives you. Why don't you use it? It suits your theme! Why not? Are you a powergamer?"

[Rfkannen]

Yes it should exist. The SCAG version is considered a failure, much like Purple Dragon Knight, the only good thing is that people cannot just say 'just play a paladin'. If they want an undead theme warlock, that's the only one. But the mechanics are really ****ty so...

I agree, an ability that 'manifest your patrons power' sounds like it should be a powerful ability, like a temporary lich form maybe? Should be the level 14 feature.

I'm kind of disillusioned with WotC's warlock ever since i saw a good homebrew where each warlock subclass gets their own version of Eldritch Blast that is flavored to their own theme. And I'm not talking about Celestial Warlock kind of Bonus Cantrip, where they slap on Sacred Flame and call it a day. No, that is lazy and utterly insulting to the players. "Here, your subclass gets something that is worse than what your base class gives you. Why don't you use it? It suits your theme! Why not? Are you a powergamer?"

I have to admit that so far genie warlock is my favorite JUST because of the elmental eldritch blast lol, it adds a lot of flavor. You can already do a lot it with just reflavoring I guess..... but idk I always find eldritch blast pretty boring.

Do you have a link to that homebrew? it sounds interesting!

Honestly I would be much more interested in a purple dragon knight replacement than an undying one lol, just SOMETHING to fill the niche of warlord that a ton of people clearly want filled. I do still want the undying replacement though lol.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm kind of disillusioned with WotC's warlock ever since i saw a good homebrew where each warlock subclass gets their own version of Eldritch Blast that is flavored to their own theme. And I'm not talking about Celestial Warlock kind of Bonus Cantrip, where they slap on Sacred Flame and call it a day. No, that is lazy and utterly insulting to the players. "Here, your subclass gets something that is worse than what your base class gives you. Why don't you use it? It suits your theme! Why not? Are you a powergamer?" Gee, that's funny, I play a celestial warlock and I have never felt insulted by any of that. The light cantrip has good utility, sacred flame prevents regeneration by zombies and vampires, etc. Is EB a strictly better cantrip? For most situations, since I can apply invocations to it, yes. Once the level 6 damage boost comes in for Sacred Flame it isn't as lame as you suggest.

I don't get the vitriol here. Maybe you would find happiness in GURPS, or 13th Age, or another game system.

[KorvinStarmast]

Honestly I would be much more interested in a purple dragon knight replacement If you use the search function, you can find a number of threads where some pretty good ideas on how to fix the mistakes in Purple Dragon Knight are proposed.

[Amnestic]

Honestly I would be much more interested in a purple dragon knight replacement

Merge it with Champion.

Not joking.

[Ettina]

That would be an awesome capstone!

I was more thinking weather the undeath warlock ua should even exist, since we have the undying warlock from scag. I am leaning towards yes it should, though I agree that just flat out being a litch would be cooler than the ghost thing they currently have!

3.5 has a lot of classes with capstones like that. Walker in the Wastes turns you into a dry lich (basically a mummy crossed with a lich), Dread Necromancer turns you into a regular lich, etc. It's a neat idea, and I wish 5e had more of that.

[Cikomyr2]

Funny you mention the Undeath Warlock.

Here's the one I am currently playing in a game. It's the "Master of Undeath"
(https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-LSsloXOv8CJe8T0oJ2j)
It empowers Toll the Dead to use like it's Eldritch Blast (+Cha to damage), you get some minions, capped at your proficiency bonus, and you eventually gain undead traits.

I only reached level 5 so far, but coupled with the Summon Undead spell, it's turning out pretty awesome overall.

[heavyfuel]

@OP

Allowing Undead-locks is fine. It's no stronger than Hexblade or Genie. If it's stronger than Undying, that's Undying's fault for sucking.

I might be tempeted to nerf Undead ever so slightly (like lowering the Temp HP to d8 and removing the last line from Grave Touched), but probably wouldn't. I'd just let the player know that I might do it if it ends up being too powerful


Merge it with Champion.

Not joking.

That is, no joke, the best suggestion I've even heard for fixing these subclasses.

Here's to hoping this catches on as a houserule!

[Cikomyr2]

@OP


That is, no joke, the best suggestion I've even heard for fixing these subclasses.

Here's to hoping this catches on as a houserule!

There was a homebrew class proposed on this forum a while ago that did just that.