How does one protect against Black Blade of Disaster?

[Max Caysey]

Yir, so...

If two high level spellcasters are going at it in a duel to the death. And they are both level 21+ how would they be able to protect agaist Black Blade of Disaster? The blade needs to land a hit to be effective, but beying raising one's touch AC or having miss chance, whats out there?

Cheers!

[Crichton]

Yir, so...

If two high level spellcasters are going at it in a duel to the death. And they are both level 21+ how would they be able to protect agaist Black Blade of Disaster? The blade needs to land a hit to be effective, but beying raising one's touch AC or having miss chance, whats out there?

Cheers!

Well, for starters as a epic level spellcaster in a duel to the death I'd never be using Black Blade of Disaster as my attack strategy. That would be a waste of my actions and my spell slots.

But if my opponent were foolish enough to do so, the spell itself lists 5 easy (for an epic spellcaster) counters to it, right there in the spell text.

[Xervous]

It does damage and wastes their actions. I’d look at it as paying life to skip the opposing wizard’s turn. You could summon something to heal yourself and use your spare slots to blast and you’d come out ahead.

[King of Nowhere]

black blade is a horrible spell. it hits with BAB + INT, so we're looking at +20/+25. hitting is not a guarantee if someone got some decent buffs on touch AC.
then if it hits it deals 2d12, plus a disintegrate effect. 2d12 is a really pitiful amount of damage at high level. so, basically, the opponent is casting disintegrate every round. Sure, it's going to kill you eventually if you don't have immunities, but there are spells that are much more dangerous.
in a fight between high level wizards i'd always open with a disjunction to get rid of buffs. and i can include the blade in its area of effect too.

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Black Blade of disaster is a relatively powerful attack spell. If it hits and you fail your Fort save, you're dead. 2*CL d6 damage will tear through your temporary HP (and actual HP) and kill d4 HD casters easily. Furthermore, as it's a dimensional tear I expect many GMs will rule that spells like Greater Blink won't work.
Nevertheless, it's not optimal because there are multiple ways to beat it:
- It needs to hit you. Miss chance (Displacement? Greater Mirror Image?), AC boosts and Abrupt Jaunt/Drow Cloak can all save you.
- You need to fail a fortitude save. Keeping your saves as high as possible is always good practice when going up against a spellcaster, and increasing Fort is obvious because it's a low save for you and opposing spellcasters will know to target it. Cloak of Resistance +6 and other save-boosting items, spells or Shapechange forms that increase your Con, spells like Moment of Prescience... The usual.

IMO the best use of Black Blade of Disaster is casting it while you're in a Time Stop. It will then attack as soon as the spell ends, sort of like Manyjaws but better.

[Xervous]

Furthermore, as it's a dimensional tear I expect many GMs will rule that spells like Greater Blink won't work.

Ah, one of the 3/3.5e mixups.

Though I’d call BS on the GM that denied greater blink as a planar tear on the material does not imply it extends to the ethereal.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Ah, one of the 3/3.5e mixups.

Though I’d call BS on the GM that denied greater blink as a planar tear on the material does not imply it extends to the ethereal.

It's right there in the spell text: "It can harm ethereal and incorporeal creatures as if it were a force effect."
That doesn't get around the partially invisible portion of Blink, but I'd expect permanency see invisibility to be in play at that level.

[Crichton]

black blade is a horrible spell. it hits with BAB + INT, so we're looking at +20/+25. hitting is not a guarantee if someone got some decent buffs on touch AC.
then if it hits it deals 2d12, plus a disintegrate effect. 2d12 is a really pitiful amount of damage at high level. so, basically, the opponent is casting disintegrate every round. Sure, it's going to kill you eventually if you don't have immunities, but there are spells that are much more dangerous.
in a fight between high level wizards i'd always open with a disjunction to get rid of buffs. and i can include the blade in its area of effect too.


I think you're reading the outdated Magic of Faerun version. It was changed in Spell Compendium. Now on a hit and a failed save, the target is effectively just hit with the Disintegrate spell, taking 2d6 damage per CL, but on a successful save they only take 5d6 total. Still a bad spell for wizards.


Note that this really really should be worded better in the spell description. They don't actually SAY 'as the Disintegrate spell' they say 'is disintegrated if it fails the save' followed by 'taking 2d6 damage per CL' etc, making it very much sound like the target is fully killed by disintegration and also takes damage. Only by cross-referencing the Disintegrate spell and seeing that the effects are the same to you not think this is an auto-death on hit weapon. In fact, I think by strict RAW, this might actually BE an auto-kill on hit weapon. Saying the target 'is disintegrated' doesn't RAW mean they're hit with the Disintegrate spell's effects. In the Disintegrate spell's text itself, anything that's described as 'is disintegrated' (past tense) is already dead. So BBoD is a bad spell for wizards, and it's also a poorly worded spell open to RAW exploits.


Furthermore, as it's a dimensional tear I expect many GMs will rule that spells like Greater Blink won't work.

They don't have to rule. It explicitly says it attacks Ethereal and Incorporeal just as Force does. Blink would still provide a miss chance if you can't see into the Ethereal, though.

[Crake]

The blade has SR: Yes, so magic immunity will ignore the blade, it also cannot enter an AMF, so a selective spell AMF allowing you to cast with impunity will protect you against it, finally, since you can auto dispel it with a dimensional anchor, you can avoid being hit by it when it's first cast by using celerity and casting a dimenisonal anchor spell at it.

It's also a concentration spell, so if you just hit the caster with sufficient damage, they can't keep concentrating on the spell, and it also cannot attack beyond it's range which is fairly short, so just stay out of range.


black blade is a horrible spell. it hits with BAB + INT, so we're looking at +20/+25. hitting is not a guarantee if someone got some decent buffs on touch AC.
then if it hits it deals 2d12, plus a disintegrate effect. 2d12 is a really pitiful amount of damage at high level. so, basically, the opponent is casting disintegrate every round. Sure, it's going to kill you eventually if you don't have immunities, but there are spells that are much more dangerous.
in a fight between high level wizards i'd always open with a disjunction to get rid of buffs. and i can include the blade in its area of effect too.

It looks like you're looking at the 3.0 version of the spell.


Furthermore, as it's a dimensional tear I expect many GMs will rule that spells like Greater Blink won't work.

The 3.5 version of the spell specifies that it strikes ethereal and incorporeal creatures as if it were a force effect, no GM intervention required.

[Biggus]

In addition to the methods already mentioned, a Ruby Cincture of Immutability (MIC p.131) can automatically negate a disintegration effect as an immediate action once a day, buying you time to disjoin it or whatever.