Int-based reflavoring of classes

[Cikomyr2]

I am currently playing an Int-based warlock. Someone who uses details of the rules of the pact made to leverage more power, and who's purpose is mainly seeking more knowledge for Knowledge's sake.

I realized I did not had to work that hard to make the Int-Based Warlock work because the Warlock is such a thematically chameleon class you can make it fit as a blaster, a trickster, a fighter, healer, etc.. With the desired flavoring.

So. This inspired me in think other thematic adaptation of other classes (mostly Cha based class so far).

The first is an Int based Paladin named "the Inquisitor". I don't think you need to change much in term of mechanics to the class to make it work. Obviously, not all subclass would fit with an Inquisitor.

The other class concept is, in my opinion, probably a conceptual natural growth from my Int based warlock. Make the Int-Based Bard a "Professor". (more ideas of name or archetype invited!!). "Bardic Inspiration" becomes "the professor gives his opinion on how you should do something".

Let me know if you think if the concepts would work in play as PC archetypes.

[Wizard_Lizard]

I mean int based bard makes.. a ton of sense. In the way they get their magic. Specifically lore bards who go out and research spells and magical secrets. I do think cha works better, because... bard.. but uh it shouldn't be any problem to have an int based one.

[MrStabby]

Well rangers are all about knowing their enemies.

Monks can live in scholastic isolation.

Rogue's sneak attack is about knowing the anatomically advantagious place to strike.

Clerics can be theologically inspired, although a little clashing with the heavy armour style it can work wih the medium armour ones.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Sorcerers could gain their power by learning more about their ancestry?

[Cikomyr2]

Sorcerers could gain their power by learning more about their ancestry?

I have to be honest, intelligence sorcerer is the one I have the most difficulty figuring. Since sorcerer is meant to be instinctive expression of power, making it intelligence needs a solid rework without making it a Wizard.

[MrStabby]

I have to be honest, intelligence sorcerer is the one I have the most difficulty figuring. Since sorcerer is meant to be instinctive expression of power, making it intelligence needs a solid rework without making it a Wizard.

I dunno. I also find barbarian pretty tough and druid kind of feels a bit of a stretch (though not the absolute worst).

[MoiMagnus]

Int is usually considered inferior to the others as an ability.

It's save is pretty rare outside of mindflayer-themed campaigns. Investigation is often superseded by perception. Knowledge skills are generally far less impactful than charisma skills, when they are not rendered useless by meta knowledge of the player. And Int-based activities like puzzle solving and strategic planing rarely receive bonuses from having a high Int as no dice are rolled.
=> I'm not saying Int is useless, far from that. But it's definitely not the strongest mental ability in 5e.

It follows that outside of multiclassing combo, you can safely reflavour a class into using Int with fearing that you might have created an OP monster.

As for themes:
(1) Magic can always be reflavoured to match Intelligence without problems, as more knowledge about your powers will likely bring you more power.
(2) Defences based on intellect (so Barbarian/Monk AC) can represent quick tactical thinking. 4e had the Armour and Reflexes defence based on Dex and Int, and it never felt wrong to me.
(3) Weapon usage based on intellect is much harder. It somewhat works for rogue as you target weak points, but it's still pretty weird IMO. If you fully reflavour the class so that it fight with short-ranged telekinesis (so you're not weilding the weapon, you're moving it around with your telekinesis), I can understand Intelligence being used to represent your telekinetic strength.


I have to be honest, intelligence sorcerer is the one I have the most difficulty figuring. Since sorcerer is meant to be instinctive expression of power, making it intelligence needs a solid rework without making it a Wizard.

What's the problem with the Int Sorcerer being a "wizard" that use the sorcerer class abilities instead of the wizard ones? Metamagic and being able to tweak your spells slots to your need works quite well for an Int base class. And using the power of your blood can come from traditions passed down from generation to generation that you have to study to master.

[ColonelHero]

I wonder if INT is so weak because there are so few classes that use it as a casting stat (compared to WIS and CHA), but that one that does is just so good and prototypical. Maybe playtesting didn't notice how unbalanced your character is if you invest a lot of points in INT because the only people doing that were Wizards.

[MoiMagnus]

I wonder if INT is so weak because there are so few classes that use it as a casting stat (compared to WIS and CHA), but that one that does is just so good and prototypical.

Part of the reason of the weakness of Int is that the reduction of the complexity of the game:
+ 3e has skill points based on Int that made Int borderline OP, but that was removed in favour of proficiency, and the design team decided against giving extra skill proficiency for Intelligence.
+ 4e allowed to trade Dex for Int for defences, allowing Int bonuses to dodge attacks and fireball, but that was also abandoned.

To be fair with a designers, in an illusion heavy game, and with a DM very generous with the efficiency of illusions, Int is really important (and Wizard is OP). Also, I'm not totally sure why they decided that illusion spells used the investigation skill rather than the Int save, but that's another debate.



Maybe playtesting didn't notice how unbalanced your character is if you invest a lot of points in INT because the only people doing that were Wizards.


It's possibly also why the Wizard is overtuned: being on the weakest ability, you really need to be good at the game to have the Wizard overperform.

[TyGuy]

I find certain subclasses fit better than the entire core class. I'm looking at
College of lore
Knowledge domain
Aberrant mind

[Cikomyr2]

I find certain subclasses fit better than the entire core class. I'm looking at
College of lore
Knowledge domain
Aberrant mind

Oh! Oh! Aberrant Mind is a good example of a thematically fitting Int-based sorcerer! I love it!

In fact, having certain subclass alter the primary caster stat might be interesting.. I always thought the game would benefit from a "Philosopher Monk"

[Rfkannen]

I rolled up an int based sorcerer once, based off the izzet from ravnica, a mad scientist who got more sorcerer powers by doing magical surgery on themselves. The int represented how good the modifications they did worked.

[Greywander]

I have to be honest, intelligence sorcerer is the one I have the most difficulty figuring. Since sorcerer is meant to be instinctive expression of power, making it intelligence needs a solid rework without making it a Wizard.
Psychics. Like Professor X of the X-Men. Aberrant Mind is just one example, almost any sorcerer could be psychic rather than magical.

As for a philosopher monk, I'm pretty sure philosophy would be Wisdom anyway. That said, a lot of classical philosophers delved into both practical knowledge and academic knowledge.

On a related note, I had a concept for a character who was a former circus acrobat. The character would have been a CHA-based Drunken Master monk.

[patchyman]

On a related note, I had a concept for a character who was a former circus acrobat. The character would have been a CHA-based Drunken Master monk.

Interesting. I had an idea for a Str-based Open Hand Monk, who was a wrestler. Had to go straight human, as the only stat he could dump was Int.

[Dienekes]

Artificer: Unchanged
Barbarian: I’m thinking some kind of analyzer subclass which replaces rage bonuses with stuff based on Intelligence. Basically make it their natural fighting style to be Sherlock from the RDJ movies. You could also make a case for something like Warchief being Int or Charisma focused.
Bard: Lore Keeper/Archivist/Professor
Cleric: Monastic Scholar type of cleric
Druid: Environmental Preserver
Fighter: Tactician
Monk: A technical fighter that is all about knowing the human anatomy and pressure points. Technically pretty similar to Barb, though mechanics can really distinguish the two.
Paladin: Inquisitor works well
Ranger: Monster Hunter type that has learned the weaknesses of monsters through books and things. Or a subclass about building and setting traps could be seems as Int focused.
Rogue: Plenty to work with here depending on various subclass choices. The Expert works as a generic Int focused skill user name.
Sorcerer: Psychic
Warlock: the fluff of the class already fits Int well enough. They learned how to steal/borrow the power of great beings.
Wizard: Unchanged

[Evaar]

Anasurimbor Kellhus would be a high level, Intelligence-based Monk (and he'd have some feature allowing him to use Intelligence bonus for social rolls.)

https://princeofnothing.fandom.com/wiki/Anas%C3%BBrimbor_Kellhus


The Dûnyain, have surrendered themselves to the Logos, to what you would call reason and intellect. We seek absolute awareness, the self-moving thought. The thoughts of all men arise from the darkness. If you are the movement of your soul, and the cause of that movement precedes you, then how could you ever call your thoughts your own? How could you be anything other than a slave to the darkness that comes before? Only the Logos allows one to mitigate that slavery. Only knowing the sources of thought and action allows us to own our thoughts and our actions, to throw off the yoke of circumstance. And only the Dûnyain possess this knowledge, plainsman. The world slumbers, enslaved by its ignorance. Only the Dûnyain are awake.


He is capable of effortlessly reading and manipulating the emotions of world-born Men, and can use the probability trance to see all possible outcomes of his actions and so find the Shortest Way.

He's depicted doing stuff like standing in the midst of a volley of arrows, dodging and parrying individual arrows with a short sword, using the probability trance. That's why I land on Monk, but also the books call him a monk and he's bred and raised and trained in a secret, well, monastery. So. Yup.

He multiclasses later in the books, but that particular choice doesn't require reflavoring.

[Clistenes]

I see Inquisitors as Wisdom-based, rather than Intelligence-based... hunting heretics and criminals would require a good understanding of human nature, and that falls withing Wisdom's purview...

On the other hand, a hunter of monsters like Fiends, Undead or Aberrations would probably require Intelligence rather than Wisdom... these would be studied and fought the same way we study and fight diseases and plagues...

[Angelalex242]

We need a monk subclass that's roughly based on Firefly's River. "I can kill you with my BRAIN!"