Why do schools have lockers the size of a student?

[Smoutwortel]

You might hear stories about people getting stuffed in their locker and if you search the internet you find both people with personal experience with it and programs for teachers to deal with it.
This rises the question: "What do students need lockers the size of a student for?"
As a student who has gone his entire schooling life without using his locker he would have never fit in(, because of the grounded fear of forgetting things not attached to their body.) I might have a skewed view of how lockers work, but I thought based on how it worked in my school that
a. students only put the things in their locker that they're using until the next break(the major selling point)
b. Even the entire rack of things I needed as a student for one year didn't take the same amount of space as me.
If it is to give room for organization, why don't schools install trays to help with the organisation and avoid kids getting stuffed in.

[drDunkel]

You might hear stories about people getting stuffed in their locker and if you search the internet you find both people with personal experience with it and programs for teachers to deal with it.
This rises the question: "What do students need lockers the size of a student for?"
As a student who has gone his entire schooling life without using his locker he would have never fit in(, because of the grounded fear of forgetting things not attached to their body.) I might have a skewed view of how lockers work, but I thought based on how it worked in my school that
a. students only put the things in their locker that they're using until the next break(the major selling point)
b. Even the entire rack of things I needed as a student for one year didn't take the same amount of space as me.
If it is to give room for organization, why don't schools install trays to help with the organisation and avoid kids getting stuffed in.

Don't worry. Get back to school and do not fear the locker.

[Fyraltari]

When I was in highschool we had lockers about the size of a backpack which made sense since it we only used them to store our backpacks during lunch break. Of course they were still big enough for the youngest of us to fit inside provided they folded themselves (hugging their knees and all). Then again, this was kind of a moot point since people apparently went around ripping the doors of the closets off their hinges.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The lockers are sized for things like raincoats and are basically a holdover from another time when people actually wore raincoats.

[Willie the Duck]

I am going to assume that a locker tends to be made under the assumption that a student may need a backpack, books, lunch, outdoor inclement weather gear, a musical instrument (if they are in band or the like), along with stuff like changes of clothes for athletic activities (presumably if they are on something like the football or nordic skiing teams, where they have bulky specialized equipment, that stuff will be stored by the athletic department somehow). I'm sure there could be some configuration where it would be easy to store all of this, but hard to fit a small (most likely to be bullied) student into it, but I doubt it would be convenient (from an access, space-used, and construction perspectives).

Moreover, I think the number of students who actually get shoved into lockers is significantly lower than the cultural meme it has become suggests. It's one of those things (giving someone a swirly being another example) that is significantly more easily done in a comic or tv show than it is in real life. People flail, people yell and scream. Perhaps most importantly, if you ______ (something else) another student, you just say, 'no I didn't, that never happened.' If you stuff someone in a locker, the teachers darn well know that someone actually did it (since they find the student stuffed in the locker), and the only defense is 'well it wasn't me.' In my experience (which I recognize is not universal), what really happens a lot is the more convenient things like bullies calling the bullied names, throwing food at them, tripping or pushing them, or even punching/hitting them. I think that's the primary reason for the lockers as they are -- kids being stuffed into them simply isn't a major issue, even within the topic of student-on-student bullying, and as such isn't a major decision factor in how schools are built/furnished.

[Anonymouswizard]

My secondary school only had lockers for the younger years, and then only if you rented them. They were mainly for storing stuff you wouldn't take home, and were about the size of a backpack.

Thinking back now, I can't clearly remember how bags were dealt with on breaks, in primary school you left them at your seat in the classroom, because IME primary schools assigned one teacher and one classroom per class with very occasional cases of swapping teachers for certain subjects.

But in secondary school I think we just kept them with us during break and dropped them if we were to play sportsfootball. Being somebody who never joined in with the games I believe I just wore my bag throughout break unless I was in the library, then when break finished you just went straight to the classroom and pulled your materials out.
If you brought a coat or PE kit you pretty much had to carry it around all day, and as everybody did that there wasn't any major problem with it.

Note that we also didn't shower after PE, while at least some of the changing rooms had showers (in secondary school) there was never the time or requirement to use them. We must have stunk up classrooms after having PE.


Now it might have mattered somewhat that my school had a 'campus' layout where every subject area had a dedicated building instead of being one building with lots of classrooms, so the lack of a central point that worked no matter if you were Doing maths or English might have been more of a factor than it being a UK school.If the lockers were at the main hall you'd lose five minutes stowing stuff after English and would have to cut your break short five minutes before the lesson.

[AdmiralCheez]

My lockers in middle school were just barely big enough to fit a backpack, so even child-sized, you couldn't fit a person in there.

High school lockers were tall enough, but not really deep enough, and had shelves. You could fit a coat and some books, but not a person. They'd have to crouch in order to get under the shelves, and by that point, their knees would be poking out so much, the door wouldn't shut, so it wasn't really possible.

Now, the musical instrument lockers in the band room are another story. You can absolutely fit people in those things. In the largest sized ones, where you would normally store things like bass drums and sousaphones, you could comfortably seat two people, and we often did (willingly). They were surprisingly comfortable. The doors were also more wiry, so it looked more like a pet cage than a locker door, so if you somehow did get locked in, you could just reach through the bars and turn the lock yourself.

[Imbalance]

I was a self-deprecating bully and tried to stuff myself into my own locker, but it was too small. Got some good scrapes from the metal edges, though. Stupid nerd. Big jerk.

[Manga Shoggoth]

The lockers are sized for things like raincoats and are basically a holdover from another time when people actually wore raincoats.

And, for that matter, lab coats. I understand they are still in fashion for certian courses..

[snowblizz]

Then again, this was kind of a moot point since people apparently went around ripping the doors of the closets off thzir hinges.

Lol! We did that too! Took the kids about 4 days into starting in the new school that even with a plastic coathanger you could bent them up backwards. Only the very endmost lockers were safe as thy had no leverage you could apply.

The cool kids naturally removed their locker doors completely.

[Gnoman]

This might well be a time thing. My high school lockers were absolutely large enough to fit a person inside as long as that person wasn't super-wide, but it was built in the 20s and abandoned for about 20 years before reopening. Most of the other schools I visited had much smaller lockers that were only half-as high (to squeeze more in for the significantly larger student body).

[Misereor]

Why do schools have lockers the size of a student?

It's a safety issue.
If the lockers are too small, the kids can be seriously injured when you stuff them in there.

[lio45]

When I was in highschool we had lockers about the size of a backpack which made sense since it we only used them to store our backpacks during lunch break. Of course they were still big enough for the youngest of us to fit inside provided they folded themselves (hugging their knees and all). Then again, this was kind of a moot point since people apparently went around ripping the doors of the closets off thzir hinges."thzir hinges"... I just realized there was such a thing as a specifically French keyboard typo. (Logical, but I never gave that any thought till now.)

[Peelee]

"thzir hinges"... I just realized there was such a thing as a specifically French keyboard typo. (Logical, but I never gave that any thought till now.)

I don't know how prevalent it is across Europe but in Austria most of the keyboard layouts I used had standard QWERTY but with Y and Z swapped. So QWERTZ.

[KillianHawkeye]

The lockers are sized for things like raincoats and are basically a holdover from another time when people actually wore raincoats.

Growing up in the northern United States, that also included hefty winter coats and related cold weather gear for me.

[Fyraltari]

I don't know how prevalent it is across Europe but in Austria most of the keyboard layouts I used had standard QWERTY but with Y and Z swapped. So QWERTZ.

French keyboards are usually AZERTY.
https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/0x380/d/b/d2358abaa0aaf8320d9cbb642ca9bca575447e5f11b452da8e 27638bca03b3/Clavier-AEKT1TPF010-1.png?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstore.rekup-it.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F03%2FClavier-AEKT1TPF010-1.png&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1

This only becomes an issue if you end up using a foreign made computer for whatever reason and some internet flash games (and weirdly enough one free DLC of a game I own) will only accept WASD as inputs and not ZQSD.
AZERTY keyboards usually can be toggled to function as QWERTY keyboards and back through a key combination I never remember.

[Iruka]

I don't know how prevalent it is across Europe but in Austria most of the keyboard layouts I used had standard QWERTY but with Y and Z swapped. So QWERTZ.

That is the typical keyboard layout for German speaking countries. Since the "y" is rarely needed, it has been moved to a corner.

[snowblizz]

French keyboards are usually AZERTY.
https://s2.qwant.com/thumbr/0x380/d/b/d2358abaa0aaf8320d9cbb642ca9bca575447e5f11b452da8e 27638bca03b3/Clavier-AEKT1TPF010-1.png?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstore.rekup-it.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F03%2FClavier-AEKT1TPF010-1.png&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1

This only becomes an issue if you end up using a foreign made computer for whatever reason and some internet flash games (and weirdly enough one free DLC of a game I own) will only accept WASD as inputs and not ZQSD.
AZERTY keyboards usually can be toggled to function as QWERTY keyboards and back through a key combination I never remember.

I a little disappointed a French keyboard wasn't a "YTREWQ" keyboard.

[Fyraltari]

We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

[Iruka]

We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

Tell that to the ONU or the OTAN. :smalltongue:

[Peelee]

We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

Sig?

Also, another reason to be a proponent for Dvorak dominance. Surely that would have no changes on non-English languages.

[Fyraltari]

Sig?
Sure.


Also, another reason to be a proponent for Dvorak dominance. Surely that would have no changes on non-English languages.

-___-

[lio45]

That is the typical keyboard layout for German speaking countries. Since the "y" is rarely needed, it has been moved to a corner.Same reasoning for the AZERTY keyboard I'm pretty sure, given that "w" is extremely rare in French (while common in English).

That penalty corner has, in German, the "y" in it, in French, the "w", and in English, the "z". :)

[farothel]

We didn't have lockers at school and I believe most schools in Belgium don't have lockers. We just hung our coats on hangers in the hallway (just outside the class) and took everything we needed in a backpack in class. At least in highschool. In primary school we kept things in our benches (in the old days we still had benches with storage space in them).

[snowblizz]

Tell that to the ONU or the OTAN. :smalltongue:

I'm glad to see someone got the joke I was making.

[Ortho]

Dang, your school got the good lockers.
My high school had slightly-smaller-than-a-backpack-sized lockers, stacked on top of each other, ensuring that we had to carry our three or four heavy textbooks with us everywhere we went! And I, the 6'2" guy, was naturally assigned a locker on the very bottom row.

[Rogar Demonblud]

You didn't swap with somebody of petite dimensions who got a top locker?

[Willie the Duck]

You didn't swap with somebody of petite dimensions who got a top locker?

Guessing they were 'not allowed to.' Having a teenage nephew who is going to my HS alma mater is reminding me just how little autonomy teens often have. Probably not a bad thing, either, since if the person you swapped with had some kind of contraband in the locker, and it was found, but the locker was assigned to you...

[Lacco]

I always thought it was only a Hollywood trope!

So, you're saying there are actually lockers that are teen-sized? Then I'd say it's mostly because people complained of being stuffed into lockers that were too small.

What I have seen in our country is either lockers the size of pre-school children or cages.

The cages were fun - especially when a class of 20 tried to fit in and get changed to go out as fast as possible. You ended up sitting on people, standing on one leg (which was not yours), and other fun stuff.

Examples below:


http://owi.click/zsvhradna.edu.sk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/materska%CC%81-s%CC%8Ckola-s%CC%8Catn%CC%8Ca.jpg


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8dbhfKEQFstIHUtfQYWRTI0o88mnQ5 FqAMw&usqp=CAU

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/FWkSY09LEWWu5Z2b5AaVOUiSxl3VA0GbcpnL8eRgTG0tzXI9Qr fdXSFR2pyu9prkxJ0S3P-WdJlkWaINH_bAYG_-KxFUDhq3-QVDbw94U70

Once we got into high/secondary school, there were no lockers or anything. You just had coat hangers and were supposed to keep stuff in backpack.

EDIT: @Fyraltari: alt+shift?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Wouldn't work in my old school. Our lockers didn't even have locks or doors that'd stay latched, so no real expectation that anything in there was placed by you as opposed to Random Student #1234. Now, they don't even have lockers.

[Fyraltari]

EDIT: @Fyraltari: alt+shift?

I don't understand the question?

[Lacco]

It was related to following:


AZERTY keyboards usually can be toggled to function as QWERTY keyboards and back through a key combination I never remember.

It switches the keyboard layout in Windows (I use it to switch from QWERTY (ENG) to QWERTZ (SK)).

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think that's in response to the keyboard layout discussion.

[Lentrax]

Hi.

As one of the kids who has been shoved into lockers. As well as garbage cans, tossed down stairs, and occasionally into the girls bathroom, the proposed "No, it wasn't me" defense is actually quite effective. It really all depends on who the parents of the bully are. Because the school doesn't want to open themselves to the risk of being sued for actually implementing the zero tolerance policy.

So the kids get away with it because after all its just, "boys being boys."

[Cazero]

It was related to following:



It switches the keyboard layout in Windows (I use it to switch from QWERTY (ENG) to QWERTZ (SK)).
It switches between keyboard layouts. Provided you digged into your windows to download the one you want.

[An Enemy Spy]

When I was in middle school we would sometimes shut each other in our lockers for fun, but the person being locked up was in on it, it was never done to bully anyone.

[Tvtyrant]

Hi.

As one of the kids who has been shoved into lockers. As well as garbage cans, tossed down stairs, and occasionally into the girls bathroom, the proposed "No, it wasn't me" defense is actually quite effective. It really all depends on who the parents of the bully are. Because the school doesn't want to open themselves to the risk of being sued for actually implementing the zero tolerance policy.

So the kids get away with it because after all its just, "boys being boys."

It's telling that schools don't use cameras specifically because then they would have to deal with crimes committed in them. And assault is still a crime regardless of where it happens.

[Rockphed]

It switches between keyboard layouts. Provided you digged into your windows to download the one you want.

I once gave a coworker a polish keyboard (in revenge for him replacing my desktop with a screenshot of my desktop). It took us months to realize that his computer was messed up because it had a second keyboard layout installed. The polish keyboard is close enough to english to not matter, but we used the switch-keyboard shortcut all the time in our software. It only worked about half the time for him.

[Peelee]

polish

Appropos of nothing, but that's a fun word because the pronunciation sometimes changes with capitalization.

[Aedilred]

The lockers in my school, when we had them, were too small to shove a person in (and most of the time we used desks for storage rather than lockers) so people got shoved into cupboards instead. Or under desks. Or just beaten up and pushed around.

Bottom line is: if students want to bully each other, they'll find a way to do it. There's a limit to how much it's worthwhile to reduce the utility of things with a legitimate function in order to mitigate against that, especially since overall it will be entirely ineffective anyway.

On the policing side of things, as someone on the receiving end of the bullying, I found any attempt at zero-tolerance to be worse than useless. As the victim in such a scenario, it's rare that you have conducted yourself in a completely squeaky-clean manner. It's all very well being told to "ignore it" but when you're being physically manhandled and prevented from leaving the situation, that just isn't possible. But as soon as you raise a hand in your own defence, you're complicit, it's treated as an altercation in which both sides are to blame, and under a zero-tolerance policy you find yourself being punished for being bullied.

What's more, if you're a regular bullying victim, you tend to end up in front of the authorities more than any individual bully, which gets you a reputation as a troublemaker.

Any kind of anti-bullying action by authorities has to be applied with a degree of discretion and relatively close individual monitoring of situations, as well as underpinned by an atmosphere of trust between students (victims in particular) and the authorities in question, trust which is difficult to build up and easy to destroy. In practice, the effort required is far too onerous and intensive, for very little reward (anti-bullying action almost always being reactive), so most institutions not only won't but can't actually deal with it effectively.

[Rockphed]

The lockers in my school, when we had them, were too small to shove a person in (and most of the time we used desks for storage rather than lockers) so people got shoved into cupboards instead. Or under desks. Or just beaten up and pushed around.

Bottom line is: if students want to bully each other, they'll find a way to do it. There's a limit to how much it's worthwhile to reduce the utility of things with a legitimate function in order to mitigate against that, especially since overall it will be entirely ineffective anyway.

On the policing side of things, as someone on the receiving end of the bullying, I found any attempt at zero-tolerance to be worse than useless. As the victim in such a scenario, it's rare that you have conducted yourself in a completely squeaky-clean manner. It's all very well being told to "ignore it" but when you're being physically manhandled and prevented from leaving the situation, that just isn't possible. But as soon as you raise a hand in your own defence, you're complicit, it's treated as an altercation in which both sides are to blame, and under a zero-tolerance policy you find yourself being punished for being bullied.

What's more, if you're a regular bullying victim, you tend to end up in front of the authorities more than any individual bully, which gets you a reputation as a troublemaker.

Any kind of anti-bullying action by authorities has to be applied with a degree of discretion and relatively close individual monitoring of situations, as well as underpinned by an atmosphere of trust between students (victims in particular) and the authorities in question, trust which is difficult to build up and easy to destroy. In practice, the effort required is far too onerous and intensive, for very little reward (anti-bullying action almost always being reactive), so most institutions not only won't but can't actually deal with it effectively.

I got sent home for a few days twice during high school. Both involved me responding to bullying of one sort or another. In hind sight I almost with I had attacked the first one as much as he claimed I did. People mostly left me alone since I was nearly 6 feet tall at the start of my sophomore year (and thus taller than the average adult). If I had been in better shape people would probably have just left me alone completely.

[halfeye]

But when it stops:

After a couple of months I remember thinking "This is nice; I am never going to allow myself to go through that again".

It seems nobody else feels like this, is that really true?

They sometimes say that the only thing to fear is fear itself, but my view is that fear itself is a truly horrible and fearsome thing that really is to be feared and loathed, and that makes standing up to mere people relatively easy.

I don't know, it sort of seems nobody else gets it the way I do, am I mistaken?

[M@XWeru]

Like many others have said, I've never seen lockers big enough for that. Never had any lockers at all before I started high school, and those were too thin to stuff anyone into without severely injuring them in the process.

[sktarq]

For years I thought Locker Stuffing, and shoving the bullied head into a toilet etc were just the stuff of TV shows and remembered 1950's hazing that had gone out of fashion....I knew of none of it at the schools I attended (private) or the ones most of my friends attended (public) but I found out it was alive and well when I got to uni. Several of my classmates had been stuffed in a locker. As for why? no clue. Never saw the humour.



As for WHY lockers were so big? well the full 5-6 foot lockers seemed to be a norm until the late 80's but then there seemed to be a pretty solid switch to half size or even 1/3 size lockers so I'd say looking at norms before that era is key.
I think in part because work lockers for many adults who have to wear protective gear or uniforms are useful at that size (especially for hanging dress shirts and the like) and so there was already a semi standard "locker" that high schools just bought anyway.
Plus since you still see such large lockers linked to athletic teams there may be some normalizing about the idea that all the athletes had to have their winter coat, winter boots, their gym bag, their books, etc all in it.
Also it does seem that fewer students had backpacks/bookbags on during the day back in that era. you hit the locker for every class or two and only took home the books you needed...so changes in homework patterns may also have a part here.

[Lettuce]

The lockers in my school, when we had them, were too small to shove a person in (and most of the time we used desks for storage rather than lockers) so people got shoved into cupboards instead. Or under desks. Or just beaten up and pushed around.

Bottom line is: if students want to bully each other, they'll find a way to do it. There's a limit to how much it's worthwhile to reduce the utility of things with a legitimate function in order to mitigate against that, especially since overall it will be entirely ineffective anyway.

On the policing side of things, as someone on the receiving end of the bullying, I found any attempt at zero-tolerance to be worse than useless. As the victim in such a scenario, it's rare that you have conducted yourself in a completely squeaky-clean manner. It's all very well being told to "ignore it" but when you're being physically manhandled and prevented from leaving the situation, that just isn't possible. But as soon as you raise a hand in your own defence, you're complicit, it's treated as an altercation in which both sides are to blame, and under a zero-tolerance policy you find yourself being punished for being bullied.

What's more, if you're a regular bullying victim, you tend to end up in front of the authorities more than any individual bully, which gets you a reputation as a troublemaker.

Any kind of anti-bullying action by authorities has to be applied with a degree of discretion and relatively close individual monitoring of situations, as well as underpinned by an atmosphere of trust between students (victims in particular) and the authorities in question, trust which is difficult to build up and easy to destroy. In practice, the effort required is far too onerous and intensive, for very little reward (anti-bullying action almost always being reactive), so most institutions not only won't but can't actually deal with it effectively.

100% agreed with all of the above. From one "troublemaker" to another, you have my condolences. "Ignore it" is impossible advice to follow once your aggressor escalates past a certain point. Not to mention, "ignoring it" isn't a healthy strategy for dealing with threats when you're older, either. And adult justice systems take things like motive and who's the instigator into account; why don't schools? All this does is make victims hesitant to trust authority.

As for me, my lockers were half-size, as described above-- and in my personal locker I put one of those extendable shelves, just in case, to make it hard to fit me inside (and to organize my stuff). I was aware that bullying people into lockers was a Thing without having much of a logistical understanding of it, so I was kind of anxious about it anyway. Luckily for me, scrawny though I was, most of my physical bullying happened in elementary school when we stored our daily scholarly belongings in our desks, and our coats/bags/lunches in "cubbies": a ring of alcoves in each classroom kind of like lockers, but with no doors.

Mostly I'm jealous of all of you people getting to carry your backpacks around school. We definitely weren't allowed to do that, and had to carry a small pile of textbooks in our hands when we changed classes. There wasn't ever enough time to exchange things between classes either to lighten your load; the only exception was at lunchtime. Which cut into your lunch.

...In hindsight, though, maybe this was itself a measure to prevent physical harassment? Harder to hit someone when you've got your hands full.

[Rogar Demonblud]

More likely they were afraid you'd use your backpack to carry a couple pounds of illegal drugs, half a case of beer and a Satanic Infant Sacrifice kit. Or in other words, there wasn't a good reason.

[Rockphed]

More likely they were afraid you'd use your backpack to carry a couple pounds of illegal drugs, half a case of beer and a Satanic Infant Sacrifice kit. Or in other words, there wasn't a good reason.

Weapons were, I think, the justification for not allowing backpacks. That was only in middle school for me; in high school I carried my backpack everywhere. I think we were sometimes told not to wear coats in class.

[dps]

Also it does seem that fewer students had backpacks/bookbags on during the day back in that era. you hit the locker for every class or two and only took home the books you needed...so changes in homework patterns may also have a part here.

Back when I was in primary and secondary school, I don't remember anyone using a backpack at school--backpacks were for camping or hiking trips, not school. People in college (where we didn't really have lockers except in athletic facilities) did use backpacks, though I generally preferred a briefcase.

I don't recall anyone actually being stuffed in a locker in primary or secondary school, and we were generally a pretty mean bunch of kids. It wasn't even a common trope on TV or in movies at the time--I suspect the extent to which it might exist IRL since then is people just copying something they saw in a work of fiction.

[Willie the Duck]

Back when I was in primary and secondary school, I don't remember anyone using a backpack at school--backpacks were for camping or hiking trips, not school. People in college (where we didn't really have lockers except in athletic facilities) did use backpacks, though I generally preferred a briefcase.
My folks (who would have gone to school in the 40's/50's talked about carrying one's books to and from school, and some kinds even having some kind of strap to bind them all together (I seem to recall some Peanuts cartoons or similar with that kind of thing as well). Certainly for getting books to and from school, a backpack of briefcase make all the sense in the world. Whether one needs one in school is another matter.


I don't recall anyone actually being stuffed in a locker in primary or secondary school, and we were generally a pretty mean bunch of kids. It wasn't even a common trope on TV or in movies at the time--I suspect the extent to which it might exist IRL since then is people just copying something they saw in a work of fiction.
That's kind of where I landed (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24909724&postcount=5) as well. It seems like one of those things that seems reasonable in cartoon logic or something, but in reality isn't nearly as practical as the kind of abuse that actually did happen frequently enough.

[halfeye]

For taking things to school, there used to be things called satchels.

[sktarq]

I don't recall anyone actually being stuffed in a locker in primary or secondary school, and we were generally a pretty mean bunch of kids. It wasn't even a common trope on TV or in movies at the time--I suspect the extent to which it might exist IRL since then is people just copying something they saw in a work of fiction.

This is what i thought too....nobody I knew in public or private schools had had this happen or knew of it happening this I figured it was TV trope....except when I moved to East Coast of the USA for an engineering school I found out a couple of my classmates had suffered this, and "swirlies", and a lot of classic bullying that I thought was just ridiculous until then...which does make me wonder if the kids got it from the media or if the media just reflected a specific regional thing (most of victims seemd to be from between RI to Maryland and this would have been the late 90's). And while I suspect it was still rare overall it does seem to be a reflection of a real thing. It was part of a wider culture shock that I never got used to.


I did have the trashcan (50 gal) of water leaning against your door (so it would spill in when you open it) and tying your door closed which are a different sort of classic (joys of boarding schools) but they were so incompetent that it was never an issue and I don't tend to see those in media.

[Liquor Box]

You might hear stories about people getting stuffed in their locker and if you search the internet you find both people with personal experience with it and programs for teachers to deal with it.
This rises the question: "What do students need lockers the size of a student for?"


Would you rather be stuffed in a large locker or a small locker? That logic is sort of like not cleaning the toilets, and making the punishment of having your head flushed down it even worse.



Any kind of anti-bullying action by authorities has to be applied with a degree of discretion and relatively close individual monitoring of situations, as well as underpinned by an atmosphere of trust between students (victims in particular) and the authorities in question, trust which is difficult to build up and easy to destroy. In practice, the effort required is far too onerous and intensive, for very little reward (anti-bullying action almost always being reactive), so most institutions not only won't but can't actually deal with it effectively.

To be fair to schools it must be very hard. Almost any case of bullying will be one person's word against another's (or if it's team bullying, many person's word against the victim). Although it might seem obvious from your perspective that you were the victim, that may not be the teacher's perspective.

[Aedilred]

Would you rather be stuffed in a large locker or a small locker? That logic is sort of like not cleaning the toilets, and making the punishment of having your head flushed down it even worse.



To be fair to schools it must be very hard. Almost any case of bullying will be one person's word against another's (or if it's team bullying, many person's word against the victim). Although it might seem obvious from your perspective that you were the victim, that may not be the teacher's perspective.

Oh, I do understand that it must be hard for the staff too, hence my last sentence in the above. I have, post-school, discussed it with my mum too, who was a teacher, so I do have some insight into their perspective. I don't really blame the staff, the majority of the time: they (mostly) don't get paid extra to deal with this crap, and their jobs are hard enough as it is.

I do take issue with zero-tolerance policies for that reason, however. It's so hard to know the truth of what's happened that any kind of blanket enforcement, if rigorously enforced, will hit both the innocent and the guilty, and will probably upset the kids more likely to be rule-abiding more than those who don't care, which is the precise opposite of the effect you want to have. It looks to me like an approach that isn't designed to actually address the problem, but rather to give the appearance that they're taking it seriously - for the benefit of teachers, governors, the authorities etc.

[dps]

It looks to me like an approach that isn't designed to actually address the problem, but rather to give the appearance that they're taking it seriously

You have just articulated the "logic" behind 90% of school policies.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, them and the PTA board.

The only school I know of that achieved much with a bullying policy simply had the kids 'volunteering' to clean up litter. Many of the kids targeted didn't have an issue with community service, but the bullies hated spending a Saturday that way.

[Lord Arkon]

At my grade school, there were no lockers; all the kids hung their coats in a coat room. And once, I was foolish enough to leave money in my coat pocket during class. I never made that mistake again.

My old high school ('92-'96) had tall lockers with a shelf for the books, and a pair of hooks right under it. The hooks were about the right height to hang a long coat without letting it touch the bottom. Now, during our winter, it wasn't uncommon to get a couple of feet of snow, and for the temperature to dip below 0 degrees Fahrenheit.

The lockers were narrow, so you'd have a hard time stuffing anyone in there, unless you broke them first. But the worst that was ever done to my locker were some death threats painted on. I was questioned about it, but by then I'd learned quite well that no one in authority cared what happened to me, but under NO circumstances was I EVER to speak ill about a real person. So I played dumb, because there was no point in doing anything else. But it helped me build character.

[druid91]

It's telling that schools don't use cameras specifically because then they would have to deal with crimes committed in them. And assault is still a crime regardless of where it happens.

As someone who works for public schools. There are cameras. There's also police officers in schools.

But yeah, the 'Locker big enough to shove someone into' is mostly an old-style locker thing. And most places use newer designs that are too small/awkward to make it work.

[snowblizz]

As someone who works for public schools. There are cameras. There's also police officers in schools.

That's not a school. That's a correctional facility.

[Peelee]

That's not a school. That's a correctional facility.

If cameras and police officers are all that's needed for a correctional facility, I've got news about just a ton of places.

[Keltest]

If cameras and police officers are all that's needed for a correctional facility, I've got news about just a ton of places.

Yeah. Heck, the police sometimes come in to the store i work at for lunch. Does that make it a correctional facility during lunchtime?

[snowblizz]

Yes. Yes it does.

[Cazero]

*le gasp*
So police stations are correctionnal facilities?

[Devils_Advocate]

And adult justice systems take things like motive and who's the instigator into account; why don't schools?
Those in power often hold themselves and their underlings to lower standards of behavior. I'm guessing that teachers and other staff who are assaulted by students generally aren't punished for defending themselves. {Scrubbed}


It looks to me like an approach that isn't designed to actually address the problem, but rather to give the appearance that they're taking it seriously - for the benefit of teachers, governors, the authorities etc.
Yes, purported benefits to students are the justification, but probably not the motivation.

[Rockphed]

That's not a school. That's a correctional facility.

At my high school we always joked that is was a county jail that was deemed in excess of requirements. When I started there were no windows. They punched holes in all the upstairs walls and added windows my sophomore year. I don't remember if there were very many cameras inside the building and I am almost certain that there wasn't a permanent police presence, but there was definitely a prison attitude at many points.

[Rogar Demonblud]

My junior high never had windows, as it was deemed distracting to have a view of the outside. Don't think our grades were different from any of the other schools, since at that age the distractions were in desks all around you.

[javianhalt]

I guess it's all a conspiracy to fit the students inside and promote bullying lol

[merkkk]

I was a self-deprecating bully and tried to stuff myself into my own locker, but it was too small. Got some good scrapes from the metal edges, though. Stupid nerd. Big jerk.

haha, and I've always been afraid of these cabinets. It was a fear like in the movie "Home Alone" when Kevin was afraid of the fireplace in the basement :smallmad:. Well, now there is something to remember:smallsmile:

[Peelee]

The Mod on the Silver Mountain: Alice Cooper said school's out for necro.