A match made in heaven: Twilight Cleric + Scourge Aasimar

[QQinfinity]

Scourge Aasimar has a feature called Radiant Consumption which is a 10ft aura that deals radiant damage to all targets within range (including the Aasimar themself) at the end of every turn. The damage is half of their level, rounded up.

Twilight Cleric's channel divinity Twilight Sanctuary grants temporary HP equal to any person that ends their turn within the aura of the twilight sanctuary, which naturally includes the cleric themselves, and the number is 1d6+cleric level.

This negates the pesky problems of harming yourself with the Radiant Consumption (and potentially breaking your own concentration) by having twilight sanctuary constantly give yourself Temp HP that far exceeds the damage you deal to yourself; plus you also got radiant damage resistance anyway.

Tasha's Custom Origin easily fixes the problem of the race giving +2 cha; swap them over to +2 wis.

Although, the racial darkvision of 60ft is completely obsolete on Twilight Clerics that have 300ft dark vision. The Light Cantrip for free is also generally pointless given you can simply share your dark vision amongst the team. You can't even use the Light cantrip offensively by trying to make your enemies glow in the dark, because the spellcasting stat is Charisma.
Healing Hands is just a glorified spare the dying used to pull unconscious allies back to their feet without using a spell slot.

But man, I still think that once you get spirit guardians at lv5, a Scourge Aasimar Twilight Cleric dealing 3d8+3 per turn as an AOE is really nuts. All variants of Aasimar can also deal extra damage to a single target every turn that equals to their character level too, so technically its actually 3d8+3+5; and for ten rounds of combat against a single target, this basically becomes a cumulative 30d8+80.

[ftafp]

The problem with scourge aasimar as a caster is that taking damage every turn will interrupt concentrations pretty quickly, even if the save is low. Luckily, you only need 2 levels to get the best features of twilight cleric. You can put the rest in Circle of the Stars Druid who can activate their starry form as a bonus action and auto-pass those saves. It's a flavorful and effective combo.

[QQinfinity]

The problem with scourge aasimar as a caster is that taking damage every turn will interrupt concentrations pretty quickly, even if the save is low. Luckily, you only need 2 levels to get the best features of twilight cleric. You can put the rest in Circle of the Stars Druid who can activate their starry form as a bonus action and auto-pass those saves. It's a flavorful and effective combo.

I really, really, REALLY want to have a twilight cleric/star druid. But as far as the rules go this is unlikely to happen. Twilight Clerics get heavy armor proficiency which are all explicitly metallic. Most DMs will rule that you cannot use your druidic powers while wearing heavy armor, so no wild shape and no starry form that expends the use of a wild shape since that is simply a subclass specific version of the transformation.

As much as I like to replace spiritual weapon with Archer Constellation's radiant arrows, twilight clerics are frontliners, so the attack rolls for arrows will be done with disadvantage. Chalice and Dragon are great for clerics, but again, it depends if the DM would allow you to transform at all.

[DarknessEternal]

Activating the Scourge Aasimar aura takes an action. That isn't really good economy.

[QQinfinity]

Activating the Scourge Aasimar aura takes an action. That isn't really good economy.

This is entirely true. The channel divinity needs an action, the spirit guardians need an action, and the Radiant Consumption needs an action. Economically speaking this is terrible, but so is Paladin/Hexblade needing multiple turns to set up hex and hexblade curse and vow of enmity even if all three of those things are bonus action; not to mention the pallock combo can miss the hit even with advantage.

Twilight Sanctuary is beneficial to everything in every conceivable situation, unlike hex giving disadvantage to specific ability checks. Spirit Guardians is a saving throw and technically can't miss, it also makes affected enemies move at half speed. Radiant consumption straight up doesn't miss and at lv5 adds a flat +8 to all your damage. The famous pallock combo works only on single target (chances are, the target is usually already half dead by the time you set up) while Scourge twilight works as an AoE and can effortlessly switch targets to something else since their combo is not target reliant at all.

[ftafp]

I really, really, REALLY want to have a twilight cleric/star druid. But as far as the rules go this is unlikely to happen. Twilight Clerics get heavy armor proficiency which are all explicitly metallic. Most DMs will rule that you cannot use your druidic powers while wearing heavy armor, so no wild shape and no starry form that expends the use of a wild shape since that is simply a subclass specific version of the transformation.

As much as I like to replace spiritual weapon with Archer Constellation's radiant arrows, twilight clerics are frontliners, so the attack rolls for arrows will be done with disadvantage. Chalice and Dragon are great for clerics, but again, it depends if the DM would allow you to transform at all.

This isn't as big a downside as you think it is. Heavy armor may sound good in theory but for almost every situation medium armor is better. Medium armor wearers invest in dex as opposed to str. Higher Dex gives you higher initiative, higher dex saves, and higher stealth checks, and you only need a 14 in dex to get the maximum benefit whereas you'd need at least 15 strength to wear plate armor. Druids admittedly have a smaller selection of medium armor than most but the Spiked Armor from The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide has the same AC as a breastplate and the armor portion of it is explicitly made out leather. With nonmagic armor, a nonmagic shield and a dex of 14 you'd have an AC of 18 which is more than reasonable for most campaigns until you get magic armor

[QQinfinity]

Higher Dex gives you higher initiative, higher dex saves, and higher stealth checks, and you only need a 14 in dex to get the maximum benefit whereas you'd need at least 15 strength to wear plate armor.

Initiative for twilight cleric is a non-issue, as they have a feature that can grant a willing creature they touch (including themselves) advantage on initiative rolls. Medium armor and dex weapons actually get into each other's way, as you are a melee frontliner wielding a rapier with only +2 dex mod. You could raise your dex mod to try and increase the accuracy and power of your rapier but your AC doesn't increase at all. With focus on strength, it is possible for the cleric to initiate grapples or shoves at close range (especially effective if you've chosen a background like Sailor, which grants athletics and Perception), wearing a plate mail can potentially allow you to use Great weapons, and could potentially tempt you to choose GWM down the road; not like less AC will make you more likely to die given the endless amount of Temp HP you get from twilight sanctuary.

But thank you for telling me about the spike armor. I will definitely take that into consideration next time I plan out my druid (and all their potential multiclass combos that I wanted to try but never could due to armor restrictions).

(PS: But I thought druids could not possibly wear anything in the medium armor section except the hide armor? I've heard DMs who treat this rule much harsher say that druids aren't even allowed to use studded leather armor, and arguments of 'scale mail doesn't touch your skin' fail against the druid and no metals rule, how would spiked armor fare better?)

[LudicSavant]

Scourge Aasimar has a feature called Radiant Consumption which is a 10ft aura that deals radiant damage to all targets within range (including the Aasimar themself) at the end of every turn. The damage is half of their level, rounded up.

Twilight Cleric's channel divinity Twilight Sanctuary grants temporary HP equal to any person that ends their turn within the aura of the twilight sanctuary, which naturally includes the cleric themselves, and the number is 1d6+cleric level.

This negates the pesky problems of harming yourself with the Radiant Consumption (and potentially breaking your own concentration) by having twilight sanctuary constantly give yourself Temp HP that far exceeds the damage you deal to yourself; plus you also got radiant damage resistance anyway.

Tasha's Custom Origin easily fixes the problem of the race giving +2 cha; swap them over to +2 wis.

Although, the racial darkvision of 60ft is completely obsolete on Twilight Clerics that have 300ft dark vision. The Light Cantrip for free is also generally pointless given you can simply share your dark vision amongst the team. You can't even use the Light cantrip offensively by trying to make your enemies glow in the dark, because the spellcasting stat is Charisma.
Healing Hands is just a glorified spare the dying used to pull unconscious allies back to their feet without using a spell slot.

But man, I still think that once you get spirit guardians at lv5, a Scourge Aasimar Twilight Cleric dealing 3d8+3 per turn as an AOE is really nuts. All variants of Aasimar can also deal extra damage to a single target every turn that equals to their character level too, so technically its actually 3d8+3+5; and for ten rounds of combat against a single target, this basically becomes a cumulative 30d8+80.

Eh.

- It doesn't actually eliminate all of the consequences of damaging yourself. In order to do that, you need to get a +9 Constitution save (because damage to your temp HP still causes Concentration saves).
- Combats shouldn't be lasting ten rounds (And if they are, you're probably not doing as good damage as you think are).
- It takes an Action to activate Twilight, and another Action to activate your racial transformation.


Initiative for twilight cleric is a non-issue, as they have a feature that can grant a willing creature they touch (including themselves) advantage on initiative rolls. Advantage on initiative rolls doesn't make your initiative bonus irrelevant. Quite the contrary; the effects compound and synergize.


could potentially tempt you to choose GWM down the road

GWM is pretty bad on Twilight Clerics, just as with most classes that have a single high damage-per-hit attack.

[ftafp]

Initiative for twilight cleric is a non-issue, as they have a feature that can grant a willing creature they touch (including themselves) advantage on initiative rolls. Medium armor and dex weapons actually get into each other's way, as you are a melee frontliner wielding a rapier with only +2 dex mod. You could raise your dex mod to try and increase the accuracy and power of your rapier but your AC doesn't increase at all. With focus on strength, it is possible for the cleric to initiate grapples or shoves at close range (especially effective if you've chosen a background like Sailor, which grants athletics and Perception), wearing a plate mail can potentially allow you to use Great weapons, and could potentially tempt you to choose GWM down the road; not like less AC will make you more likely to die given the endless amount of Temp HP you get from twilight sanctuary.

But thank you for telling me about the spike armor. I will definitely take that into consideration next time I plan out my druid (and all their potential multiclass combos that I wanted to try but never could due to armor restrictions).

You're forgetting that if you take a level of druid you wouldn't be using a rapier, you'd be using a shillelagh which uses WIS. As for grappling, clerics shouldn't be grappling under any circumstances. Aside from the fact that you're funneling enemy attacks towards you which threatens your concentration, you need a free hand to maintain a grapple. Assuming you're a race with only two hands (which scourge aasimar is), that means the other hand is either holding a shield (which can't be put down, making you weaponless) a weapon (in which case you don't have a casting focus in hand and your AC is significantly lower), or just a holy symbol not attached to a shield (in which case you're weaponless AND your armor is significantly lower).

Also, word of advice, GWM is worthless on a cleric. Other martial classes make multiple weapon attacks per turn which partially offsets the attack penalty of GWM, but as a cleric you only get one attack, which means not only are you far more likely to waste your turn, but the damage you gain boost GWM is going to be far lower compared to a class with two or more attacks. It's also worth mentioning that if you're using a two-handed weapon, you can't use it while grappling.

[QQinfinity]

Eh.

- It doesn't actually eliminate all of the consequences of damaging yourself. In order to do that, you need to get a +9 Constitution save (because damage to your temp HP still causes Concentration saves).


OH RIGHT. I forgot about this rule interpretation issue. I've been playing with my local group that rules that if damage doesn't pierce your Temp HP to hit your HP proper it doesn't trigger concentration checks for so long. :smallfrown: Our group does this a lot, generally running with RAI rather than RAW. Sorry.

[QQinfinity]

You're forgetting that if you take a level of druid you wouldn't be using a rapier, you'd be using a shillelagh which uses WIS. As for grappling, clerics shouldn't be grappling under any circumstances. Aside from the fact that you're funneling enemy attacks towards you which threatens your concentration, you need a free hand to maintain a grapple. Assuming you're a race with only two hands (which scourge aasimar is), that means the other hand is either holding a shield (which can't be put down, making you weaponless) a weapon (in which case you don't have a casting focus in hand and your AC is significantly lower), or just a holy symbol not attached to a shield (in which case you're weaponless AND your armor is significantly lower).

Also, word of advice, GWM is worthless on a cleric. Other martial classes make multiple weapon attacks per turn which partially offsets the attack penalty of GWM, but as a cleric you only get one attack, which means not only are you far more likely to waste your turn, but the damage you gain boost GWM is going to be far lower compared to a class with two or more attacks. It's also worth mentioning that if you're using a two-handed weapon, you can't use it while grappling.

I agree that clerics probably shouldn't be the ones grappling under general circumstances, but I'm literally the only front line, and grapple still remains to be the more convenient way to restrict enemy movement without expending a spell slot.

Now, dipping levels into druid for that Shillelagh sounds super tempting too. Really wish druids can just ditch that metal restriction already, it's a shackle disguised as class identity flavor.

[ZeddRahl]

OH RIGHT. I forgot about this rule interpretation issue. I've been playing with my local group that rules that if damage doesn't pierce your Temp HP to hit your HP proper it doesn't trigger concentration checks for so long. :smallfrown: Our group does this a lot, generally running with RAI rather than RAW. Sorry.

I’ve never heard of this interpretation of the rules. Why do you believe it’s rules as intended? I just started playing a twilight cleric in a new campaign (protection aasimar) and temp hp has only recently been a major part of the game. So I’m not as familiar with the rules in question.

[Gignere]

I’ve never heard of this interpretation of the rules. Why do you believe it’s rules as intended? I just started playing a twilight cleric in a new campaign (protection aasimar) and temp hp has only recently been a major part of the game. So I’m not as familiar with the rules in question.

It’s house rules not even RAI. This is the first time I’ve heard of this ruling on temp hps. Every group I’ve played in makes con checks for any damage to temp hps.

[KorvinStarmast]

The Light Cantrip for free is also generally pointless given you can simply share your dark vision amongst the team. That cantrip isn't pointless. Try this. Cast light on a crossbow bolt. Shoot it 80' away from where you are. Thanks to the quirks in the vision and light rules, your (Dark vision out to 300') now has a 40' radius zone of bright light where that crossbow bolt thunked into the tree/door/etc 80' from you. Might be very helpful in some situations, particularly when exploring ...

Light and Dim Light are not mechanically the same.

Granted, I think this depends on how your DM applies the rules on darkvision. If you cast the light cantrip on a thing or on a foe (they have to roll a save to avoid the touch) the cantrip's dim light area becomes bright light for those with dark vision. The benefit of that is that it improves your perception checks (at least the passive ones) from disadvantage to normal. (If one is applying all of the darkness and lighting details during play). Tanarii and a few other posters here have enlightened me (pun intended) on that subtle distinction as to the vision and light section of the rules. FWIW.

[Valmark]

For some reason it doesn't quote the first post. Anyway, while good it really needs you to pre-buff or it'll take a lot to complete the combo.

There again those are all good features, so it's not too bad- they do look pretty sweet paired up. I'd likely start with the protection feature before the Aasimar's one (for obvious reasons) and even before with Spirit Guardians, since that's going to be the resource you have more of.

And you can just use Spiritual Weapon to attack while you use your non-spell features. It's really a question of wether the fight is worth it or not.


I really, really, REALLY want to have a twilight cleric/star druid. But as far as the rules go this is unlikely to happen. Twilight Clerics get heavy armor proficiency which are all explicitly metallic. Most DMs will rule that you cannot use your druidic powers while wearing heavy armor, so no wild shape and no starry form that expends the use of a wild shape since that is simply a subclass specific version of the transformation.

As much as I like to replace spiritual weapon with Archer Constellation's radiant arrows, twilight clerics are frontliners, so the attack rolls for arrows will be done with disadvantage. Chalice and Dragon are great for clerics, but again, it depends if the DM would allow you to transform at all.
Why not just not using metal armor? Having proficiency doesn't mean using it.


OH RIGHT. I forgot about this rule interpretation issue. I've been playing with my local group that rules that if damage doesn't pierce your Temp HP to hit your HP proper it doesn't trigger concentration checks for so long. :smallfrown: Our group does this a lot, generally running with RAI rather than RAW. Sorry.

It's not a rules interpretation issue. You make concentration saves when you take damage, not when you take damage specifically to your hp.

Which doesn't mean anything if you play with your group but it could be source of confusion when playing outside of it.

[Sception]

Initiative isn't moot for twilight cleric. Advantage alone means you're rarely going last, but a bonus to dex is still well appreciated in helping you go earlier. And having a decent initiative without giving yourself advantage lets you more comfortably give advantage to someone else, which will often be more valuable to the party as a whole.

It's the weapon concerns that are largely moot. Between bless, spiritual weapon, and spirit guardians, a cleric is often better off dodging to defend their ongoing spells (spiritual weapon isn't concentration, but it still goes down if you fall unconscious) rather than using spare actions on relatively weak weapon attacks when there's nothing else to cast.

IMO twilight clerics shouldn't have heavy armor proficiency anyway. Full plate isn't evening wear, and it's not like they need the extra power. That channel divinity is arguably game breaking on its own.