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View Full Version : Can a Minotaur knock an enemy prone?



jaappleton
2021-02-02, 02:26 PM
From the race:
Hammering Horns
Immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to shove that target with your horns. The target must be no more than one size larger than you and within 5 feet of you. Unless it succeeds on a Strength saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, you push it up to 10 feet away from you.
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It says shove. Not push. That's why I'm asking.

Now, from the PHB under the Combat section:

Shoving a Creature
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.

The target must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Instead of making an attack roll, you make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). You succeed automatically if the target is incapacitated. If you succeed, you either knock the target prone or push it 5 feet away from you.
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What I'm asking is, can the Minotaur use their Hammering Horns ability to Shove to knock a creature prone, as opposed to pushing them?

Unoriginal
2021-02-02, 02:29 PM
From the race:
Hammering Horns
Immediately after you hit a creature with a melee attack as part of the Attack action on your turn, you can use a bonus action to attempt to shove that target with your horns. The target must be no more than one size larger than you and within 5 feet of you. Unless it succeeds on a Strength saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength modifier, you push it up to 10 feet away from you.
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It says shove. Not push. That's why I'm asking.

Now, from the PHB under the Combat section:

Shoving a Creature
Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you. If you're able to make multiple attacks with the Attack action, this attack replaces one of them.

The target must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Instead of making an attack roll, you make a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). You succeed automatically if the target is incapacitated. If you succeed, you either knock the target prone or push it 5 feet away from you.

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What I'm asking is, can the Minotaur use their Hammering Horns ability to Shove to knock a creature prone, as opposed to pushing them?
They can't. Hammering Horns is a different ability from the Shoving a Creature rules, and it doesn't mention knocking the target prone.

jaappleton
2021-02-02, 02:37 PM
Ah, so this is an instance of shove the word, not shove the rule.

da newt
2021-02-02, 03:02 PM
That is the way I read it as well. The special attack "Hammering Horns" does exactly what it says it does - no more, no less.

On the other hand - YES a Minotaur can knock and enemy prone just like any other 'race' can - using the shove rules and burning an attack action w/ Athletics vs Athletics or Acrobatics.

Unoriginal
2021-02-02, 04:07 PM
Ah, so this is an instance of shove the word, not shove the rule.

I mean that's how I read it, it doesn't have to be how you or anyone else reads it.

It's the DM who masters the rules, not the rules which master the DM.

Aett_Thorn
2021-02-02, 04:50 PM
So you could, with Extra Attack, shove prone with one attack, attack with the other, then bonus action Hammering Horns to gore them up off the floor and toss them 10'?

jaappleton
2021-02-02, 05:31 PM
So you could, with Extra Attack, shove prone with one attack, attack with the other, then bonus action Hammering Horns to gore them up off the floor and toss them 10'?

Theoretically, yes. And I assume they’d still be prone after you pushed them with Hammering Horns.