A strange thought about the Ninja Half-Orc [spoilers]

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Therkla and Thog... Long lost sister and brother?

Why not? One got all the muscle, the other got brains, and BOTH like Elan!

"Little Bro! I missed you!"

"therkla! only girl in world without cooties!"

Yeah, we need a Therkla Smiley.

[Tor the Fallen]

It's not a half orc. It's Haley in disguise.

[Threeshades]

Therkla and Thog... Long lost sister and brother?

Why not? One got all the muscle, the other got brains, and BOTH like Elan!

"Little Bro! I missed you!"

"therkla! only girl in world without cooties!"

Yeah, we need a Therkla Smiley.

well the colors would fit. Both dress in purple. And they are half-orcs. It might be possible. So even Roy's sister has got a bizarro twin. :smallbiggrin:


It's not a half orc. It's Haley in disguise.

*kills you painfully*

[Ganurath]

well the colors would fit. Both dress in purple. And they are half-orcs. It might be possible. So even Roy's sister has got a bizarro twin. :smallbiggrin:One problem: Therkla is (presumably) a Southerner, whereas Thog is either from the North or West, depending on when he joined with Nale.
*kills you painfully*Bring him back so I can have a go. Honestly, just because she's a PC doesn't mean Haley has to have a monopoly on pigtails...

[dragongirl13]

Color schemes: fit. Nationalities: don't fit. Races: fit.

I'm not sure.

I'm actually thinking along the lines of her being a relation of Bozzak from Origins. Then again, Bozzak could be related to Thog.

[The Extinguisher]

They could be half-related.

Which would explain the nationallity difference.

[hanzo66]

Just asking, but...


Would a Half-Orc Ninja work out gameplay-wise?

[Maratanos]

Why not?

Might not be death on wheels, but you really can combine class, race, gender, blah blah blah however you want.

[Ganurath]

Just asking, but...


Would a Half-Orc Ninja work out gameplay-wise?If I made a half-orc Scout a force to fear...

[Borris]

While a ninja's most important ability scores are typically Dexterity and Wisdom, a half-orc has no penalty there, and a good Strength score only means that one surprise attack you'll make will hurt that much more. A penalty to Intelligence isn't that important given the load of skill points a ninja receives, and what does it matter to have a low Charisma when you're not meant to be seen? And Darkvision is always a nice plus when you're meant to strike in the dark.

[JaxGaret]

Plus a Half-Orc Ninja could take a level or two in Barbarian, and gain a nice amount of survivability in the form of additional HP and a higher Fort save, plus Rage and Uncanny Dodge. Also, there are several nice totems that can be selected other than the PHB default that gives +10' land speed - particularly the new pounce variant.

[Nerd_Paladin]

Sadly, by today's standard this does not approach anywhere near the territory of "strange thoughts" about Therkla.

[Ariko]

wow..a theory that is actually not completely absurd..are we sure it wont make the universe implode? :smallbiggrin:

[MCerberus]

Sadly, by today's standard this does not approach anywhere near the territory of "strange thoughts" about Therkla.

And sadly, soon enough none of the theories will go in that territory once the "house of horrors" people get at it.

[Ganurath]

And sadly, soon enough none of the theories will go in that territory once the "house of horrors" people get at it.I hope it's soon. Right now they're in a catgirls and half-orcs craze, I believe. It's like I've gone to CN heaven...

[factotum]

One problem: Therkla is (presumably) a Southerner, whereas Thog is either from the North or West, depending on when he joined with Nale.

Well, we don't actually know either fact for sure. We don't know where Nale met Thog, or how far from his homeland Thog was at the time; we also don't know that Therkla isn't a LONG way from home right now. I'm inclined to doubt that Therkla is related to Thog simply because it would be stretching the long arm of coincidence a bit further than I believe a good writer like Rich would.

[Lord Iames Osari]

And sadly, soon enough none of the theories will go in that territory once the "house of horrors" people get at it.
I just cross-posted there, so yes, hopefully soon...

[Max_Sinister]

C'mon, there can't be so few half-orcs in the world that all of them are related.

[Roderick_BR]

Just asking, but...


Would a Half-Orc Ninja work out gameplay-wise?
A half-orc would have only 2 actual drawbacks.
First, the Int penalty. You'd have to put more points in Int to keep it high enough to get a good amount of skill points. A human ninja with Int 12 would have +1 skill points/level (not counting the racial bonus). For a half-orc to get the same points, he's have to put a 14 in Int, so it becomes the same 12.
Second, the racial bonuses most races get. Humans have +1 skill point/level, halflings have lots of bonuses, etc. half-orcs get nothing skill-wise. Even half-elves get some bonuses to listen/spot/search bonuses.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Since OotS pretends to be core only, Therkla is probably a rogue, possibly with Assassin or Shadowdancer prestige class levels.

[TSED]

Since OotS pretends to be core only, Therkla is probably a rogue, possibly with Assassin or Shadowdancer prestige class levels.

They DO say there are levels of ninja, though.

While it's not stated explicitly ( "I only have 2 levels of ninja!") it is heavily implied by a certain waitress.

[Closet_Skeleton]

They DO say there are levels of ninja, though.

While it's not stated explicitly ( "I only have 2 levels of ninja!") it is heavily implied by a certain waitress.

We only know that the waitress is training to be a Ninja but she could still be a rogue. We have never seen her or any other Ninja walk through a wall or anything else impossible for a rogue to do. Goblin Ninja appeared in this comic before Complete Adventurer even came out. Miko was probably trained to be a Samurai and she's a Paladin.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Just asking, but...


Would a Half-Orc Ninja work out gameplay-wise?

Since I'm old skool enough...

In First Edition, before there was the Oriental Adventures sourcebook, Assassin was a subclass of Thief. And of all the classes available to half-orcs, only assassin had no level cap. Yeah the rules were weird. Maximum allowed: Level 4 Cleric, Level 10 fighter, level 8 thief, or an assassin.

In 3.X, half-orcs would do just fine, as described by several posters above:
Night vision
Who needs charisma to strike from the dark?
Extra strength=extra pain

Therkla will do well in her chosen profession. Provided she can keep her mind on the mission, and not on Elan's perfectly formed (fill in your own blank) :smallbiggrin:

[TSED]

We only know that the waitress is training to be a Ninja but she could still be a rogue. We have never seen her or any other Ninja walk through a wall or anything else impossible for a rogue to do. Goblin Ninja appeared in this comic before Complete Adventurer even came out. Miko was probably trained to be a Samurai and she's a Paladin.


Pffft, with enough ranks in escape artist you can slip through walls of force.


Actually, we could have seen goblin ninjas walk through walls. When they appeared out of nowhere, that could have been said ability put into use instead of failed spot checks.

Miko was a monk/paladin and called a Samurai by TITLE. The OotS queried her extensively about taking Samurai class levels, which are certainly not core.

There's just as much evidence for your argument as their is for mine. Let's call it a draw and wait for later, if I haven't yet convinced you.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Let's call it a draw and wait for later, if I haven't yet convinced you.

You can't convince me when you have no evidence. You just have your own personal ideas of how Ninja work in D&D settings.

I have one piece of evidence, the fact that OotS tries to stay core, and the Giant's previously voiced opinions on the subject. I can't prove that there are no Complete Adventurer Ninja in OotS, but there's no evidence to suggest that they do, so you're just using wild guesses.


Actually, we could have seen goblin ninjas walk through walls. When they appeared out of nowhere, that could have been said ability put into use instead of failed spot checks.

That would be a neat trick. Making a joke about an unpublished class.

[TSED]

I was referring specifically to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html) strip.

I mean, they do pop out of nowhere.

Likely? Not really. I mean, really, really, really doubtful.

But it is still possible.

Heck, we haven't seen any of those goblin 'ninjas' sneak attack either. That means they must be warriors!


Just because the class is called 'ninja' doesn't mean it can't be homebrew. Really, your position is absurd due to the strength of related cases. We know for a fact that Samurai is a class. We know for a fact that Master Samurai is a prestige class. We know for a fact that there is Homebrew content in the OotSverse. "Personal ideas" has nothing to do with it. It is taking what has already been presented in the comic, and applying it to other cases.

You could be right, and I will applaud your insight if that turns out to be true. But the world Rich has painted for us, I don't see how you could come to that conclusion unless it was your goal to be antagonistic.

[Chaos]

They DO say there are levels of ninja, though.

While it's not stated explicitly ( "I only have 2 levels of ninja!") it is heavily implied by a certain waitress.

Miko was a samurai without having taken Samurai class levels.

So Therkla can be a ninja without taking Ninja class levels.

[TSED]

Miko was a samurai without having taken Samurai class levels.

So Therkla can be a ninja without taking Ninja class levels.

True, but that still implies that there is a ninja class to take levels in.

[Ganurath]

True, but that still implies that there is a ninja class to take levels in.As said once before, it's in Complete Adventurer. I has elements of both Monk (AC bonus, ki abilities) and Rogue (sneak attack varient, skill mastery stuff.) But, odds are it's just a title in the OotSverse.

[BRC]

The Half-Orc Ninja is obviously the Waitress at the resturant where Belkar, Durkon, and V went to and Belkar got mad about the buffalo wings. She has used ninja skillz to disguise herself as a half-orc.

[hewhosaysfish]

True, but that still implies that there is a ninja class to take levels in.

No it doesn't. The fact that someone doesn't have something in no way implies that the thing has to exist. Example: Miko can be a mean old cranky pants without taking levels in the Mean Old Cranky Pants PrC; doesn't imply it exists (except in Elan's head).

[Threeshades]

One problem: Therkla is (presumably) a Southerner, whereas Thog is either from the North or West, depending on when he joined with Nale.
Theres a good chance she's not a southerner. I mean she's a half-orc which means one of her parents needs to be orcish. And I think orcs are more of the northern-kind-of people. Maybe there are southern orcs too, but the chances aren't too huge i think. Theyre just not a kind of race to fit into the oriental themed south of OOTS world.

[Ganurath]

Theres a good chance she's not a southerner. I mean she's a half-orc which means one of her parents needs to be orcish. And I think orcs are more of the northern-kind-of people. Maybe there are southern orcs too, but the chances aren't too huge i think. Theyre just not a kind of race to fit into the oriental themed south of OOTS world.
Your Assertion
Insert Foundation Here
The point I'm trying to make is that you're assuming that orcs do not exist near the Southern lands, and that no human within nine months of the Southern lands would ever be with one for even a lucky* one night stand. Plus, I'm pretty sure there's some book somewhere that says something about Orcs in the OotSverse.

*For the readers, not the parents. Awkward...

[Craig1f]

No it doesn't. The fact that someone doesn't have something in no way implies that the thing has to exist. Example: Miko can be a mean old cranky pants without taking levels in the Mean Old Cranky Pants PrC; doesn't imply it exists (except in Elan's head).

I would argue that the OOTSverse does distinguish between Ninja class and Rogue class. There have been a lot of Ninja-specific puns. I think that when they use the word "ninja" it is more than likely that it implies the Ninja class. Although you're right that it also might not.

As for choosing Half-Orc as an assassin class, I think it's a great combo. Darkvision is money, and Half-Orcs get Barbarian as a favored class. That gives you a +10 speed boost (or pounce, if you use Complete Champion, which is a ridiculously overpowered ability) plus Rage. So, you make your Sudden Strike (or Sneak Attack), and you use Rage if you get cornered. I wouldn't use Rage to flee though, because if you haven't escaped in a minute, you get fatigued and lose the ability to quad-move (run).

[TSED]

As said once before, it's in Complete Adventurer. I has elements of both Monk (AC bonus, ki abilities) and Rogue (sneak attack varient, skill mastery stuff.) But, odds are it's just a title in the OotSverse.

Oh, I know full well. That wasn't the point being made.



No it doesn't. The fact that someone doesn't have something in no way implies that the thing has to exist. Example: Miko can be a mean old cranky pants without taking levels in the Mean Old Cranky Pants PrC; doesn't imply it exists (except in Elan's head).

Does a God taking his turn in Creating The Universe saying "Ninjas!" imply it exists?

Do literal hordes of things that definately wouldn't deserve the title (being low CR mooks), and don't live in a culture that implies oriental leanings, being called ninjas imply that the class as a 'class' exists?

I'll acknowledge once again that there's a chance that ninjas don't exist in the OotSverse. But it's a very slight chance. It's been stated in all ways except explicitly. And this is rather pointless debate, as Rich will probably show us within the next few strips showing off Therkla.

[Moriato]

You can't convince me when you have no evidence. You just have your own personal ideas of how Ninja work in D&D settings.

I have one piece of evidence, the fact that OotS tries to stay core, and the Giant's previously voiced opinions on the subject. I can't prove that there are no Complete Adventurer Ninja in OotS, but there's no evidence to suggest that they do, so you're just using wild guesses.



That would be a neat trick. Making a joke about an unpublished class.

Two words: Dashing swordsman.

[Crimson Avenger]

Perhaps we have so many ninja related jokes is the fact that ninjas are inherintly funny. Such is the point of #3. The ninjas are standing in the open and talking to the party, and the party doesn't know they are there. That's comic gold. Rich doesn't even specify that they are ninja, we assume because of the dress. Heck, I've played rogues that could have pulled that off (and did on occasion much to the chagrin of the GM).

After all, a ninja is just a specialized rogue with a few (Su)'s thrown in for good measure.

[Jasdoif]

Your Assertion
Insert Foundation Here
The point I'm trying to make is that you're assuming that orcs do not exist near the Southern lands, and that no human within nine months of the Southern lands would ever be with one for even a lucky* one night stand. Plus, I'm pretty sure there's some book somewhere that says something about Orcs in the OotSverse.

*For the readers, not the parents. Awkward...Out of curiosity...have you ruled out that Therkla might be an Orc, instead of a Half-orc?

[Ganurath]

Out of curiosity...have you ruled out that Therkla might be an Orc, instead of a Half-orc?Based on the default avatars in the forums having gray skin and yellow eyes yes, yes I have.

[Emanick]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but Rich doesn't totally confine himself to core thingies...creatures from Fiend Folio have appeared, for instance.