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Sargentpsychooo
2021-02-04, 07:33 PM
Hi, I have a friend who wants to play werewolf the apocalypse and is a veteran of the game. But has not played for over a decade. He's also lazy, so has never been GM and refuses to GM this time. As I am the usual DM for our DND campaigns, the role of GM has landed on me. But I am finding it very hard to find reliable info about Werewolf the Apocalypse. Could some tell me what books I need and what the current edition is? Also any tips on being GM would be appreciated, as all I know about it is that there are werewolfs.

LibraryOgre
2021-02-04, 08:05 PM
Those answers can get a bit complicated.

First of all, there's a good FB group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/2228042150), if you don't get the answers you want, here. Most people there say that the best edition is the 20th anniversary version (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/112871/Werewolf-The-Apocalypse-20th-Anniversary-Edition?affiliate_id=315505)... a bit consolidated and updated, but still much the same lore.

Werewolf games can go a few ways, and most will have a mix of the things.

On the one hand, there's fighting the Wyrm and its creatures. A mix of eco-terrorism and spirit battles. Pentex is basically the stand-in for every evil corporation. Some Pentex goons will be normal humans, some will be bound with evil spirits (Banes) and turned into monsters (fomori). There's also the Black Spiral Dancers, werewolves turned to the Wyrm, and you might throw in vampires (leeches), or other creatures. Since Garou can step into the spirit world (cross the Veil into the Penumbra or Umbra), they may face Banes without any mortal host. Note: Most humans have an instinctive, gibbering, fear of a werewolf in Crinos (i.e. giant half-person, half-wolf form); that fear is know as "Delirium". Supernatural creatures are immune to the Delirium.

There's also the social aspect of Garou society... rank is important, and are determined by a mix of Honor, Glory, and Wisdom (might have the third one wrong). A higher rank Garou has a lot of control, socially, over lower-ranked Garou, and usually has the chops to enforce it. Garou slot into society in three different ways... their breed (Homid, or born human, Lupus, or born wolf, or Metis, which means born werewolf... which is bad). There's also their auspice, which is determined by the moon they were born under, which is sort of their job: Ragabash (tricksters), Theurge (magicians), Philodox (judges), Galliards (bards), and Ahroun (warriors). Each Auspice needs different amounts of Honor, Glory, and Wisdom to advance. Lastly, there's tribe.

There's conflict between tribes, and all tribes have a schtick... Black Furies are all-women, Get of Fenris are all about Honor, Silver Fangs are all about lineage, Children of Gaia are hippies, Bone Gnawers are bums, Glass Walkers are city-dwellers, Wendigo are "angry Native Americans" while Uktena are "wise Native Americans"... I never really had a firm grasp on the Shadow Lords or Silent Striders. Last I read, Fianna were Celts, but they may have changed that when they moved the Get away from being thinly veiled white supremacists. Red Talons are anti-human, pro-wolf. If there are other tribes in core, I cannot recall them. There are also "Kinfolk"... humans and wolves who are related to werewolves, and therefore immune to Delirium. Most kinfolk are treated pretty poorly, and few have any power aside from "might one day give birth/father a Garou."

So, what do you want to do with it? I'd start with designing the "sept" they're from... basically, a village of Garou, centered around a "caern", a place of magical and spiritual significance. You can make a single caern primarily a single tribe (which is most common), but still let characters pick most any other tribe and just come up a reason that they're there (I had a young Fianna who wound up in a Get of Fenris sept because they needed to get him away from Boston, as he'd fathered a metis... on accident). Come up with a couple important characters, and some test to put them together. It's basic, but it lets them (and you) get oriented on the system and society.

RedMage125
2021-02-05, 08:16 AM
There's conflict between tribes, and all tribes have a schtick... Black Furies are all-women, Get of Fenris are all about Honor, Silver Fangs are all about lineage, Children of Gaia are hippies, Bone Gnawers are bums, Glass Walkers are city-dwellers, Wendigo are "angry Native Americans" while Uktena are "wise Native Americans"... I never really had a firm grasp on the Shadow Lords or Silent Striders. Last I read, Fianna were Celts, but they may have changed that when they moved the Get away from being thinly veiled white supremacists. Red Talons are anti-human, pro-wolf. If there are other tribes in core, I cannot recall them. There are also "Kinfolk"... humans and wolves who are related to werewolves, and therefore immune to Delirium. Most kinfolk are treated pretty poorly, and few have any power aside from "might one day give birth/father a Garou."
Get of Fenris aren't just "about honor", they're colloquially referred to as "the tacknukes of Gaia". They're Norse-descended, and have a very "Viking-esque" mentality of "die in glorious combat to enter Valhalla". They're extremely violent and combative, even their Philodox. Silver Fangs are the nobility of the Garou. They have lon-since traditionally been the kings and rulers. But they tend to have the same kinds of failings as old human noble lines (too much close inbreeding leading to genetic flaws cropping up a lot). Children of Gaia are indeed hippies, but I just was to add that they're the Peacemakers as well. Glass Walkers being city-dwellers makes them close to the Weaver, but they also have some neat concepts there. A Glass Walker Theurge can commune with spirits of electricity and information (imagine a literally sentient computer virus they can command). Uktena aren't just "wise native Americans", they're also "creepy shaman types". Shadow Lords are the "dark nobility" of the Garou. They're power-hungry and ruthless, and looking to unseat the Silver Fangs. Silent Striders look a bit like Anubis. Even since the Children of Set (vampires) chased them from their native Egypt, they've been wanderers. They're one of the most adept at spirit-world travel, and their tribal totem (owl), if taken by an individual or party, gives them wings in the spirit world. Fianna are basically "drunken Irish", with close ties to the fey. They used to be one of 3 tribes of Celtic descent (Get of Fenris, Fianna, and White Howlers...now the Black Spiral Dancers). The only tribe you missed was the Stargazers, mystics to the core, often speaking in riddles.

And I don't think it was Honor, Glory and Wisdom...I think it was Rage, Gnosis (spirit energy), and Willpower. Auspice determines Rage, Breed determines Gnosis, and Tribe determines Willpower.




(I had a young Fianna who wound up in a Get of Fenris sept because they needed to get him away from Boston, as he'd fathered a metis... on accident).

That's hilarious.

Morgaln
2021-02-05, 10:30 AM
Oh, some half-truth and outdated information here, although the basics are correct. Let me elaborate a bit

First of all, and probably most important to the OP, I'd definitely recommend the 20th Anniversary edition, although the Revised edition (released in 2000) is very similar and will work as well.

Rage, Gnosis and Willpower have nothing to do with rank. Rage represents a Garou's ferociousness and also their connection to Luna (the spirit of the moon). That's why Rage is determined by auspice, since auspice in turn is determined by the phase of the moon a Garou is born under. Gnosis is a Garou's connection to the Umbra (the spirit world). It's determined by breed because one of the game's premises is that humans have lost their connection to the spirits, so a Garou born of humans will have a lesser connection than one born of wolves. Willpower is a Garou's strength of will. There's no clear explanation why different tribes woud start with different willpower, but since the differences are marginal at best, it doesn't really matter. All three of these are actual stats with in-game uses and applications and can be rolled against.
Rank is determined by Glory, Honor and Wisdom, collectively known as Renown. Renown can go both up and down, depending on your actions, consequently raising or lowering your rank. Renown values are not dice pools and cannot be rolled against. Renown is mostly relevant for roleplaying, although rank also limits the level of gifts (= magical abilities) a Garou can learn.

Ever since Revised, the above stereotypes of the tribes have been broken up to some degree, and the Anniversary edition went further along this road

Black Furies are still an all-female tribe, but are no longer borderline feminazis. They're more about woman empowerment and qualify as one of the more mystical tribes.
Bone Gnawers are not all bums, although they are usually living in cities in very poor conditions. That's partly because it's what they were born into, but also because they see themselves as the champions of the common people and pride themselves on facing hardship head on.
Children of Gaia have mostly shed the hippie stereotype. They're primarily diplomats and peacemakers, but they're certainly not above using strength to make sure others listen.
For the Fianna, the "drunken irish with fae connections" stereotype is still pretty accurate. The somewhat more positive spin is that they are the tribe that tries to enjoy life to the fullest; they're not closing their eyes to Gaia's plight, but they try not to let it depress them.
Get of Fenris are of Norse/Germanic descent, not Celtic. They're all about strength; physical strength, strength of will, strength of conviction. If you're not strong enough, you're a liability because the enemy can use your weakness to destroy not only you but those who rely on you.
Glass Walkers have embraced technology. They believe that technology is the future and that the Garou should use these tools to fight the Wyrm instead of distrusting it. This is a problem because technology is seen as a manifestation of the Weaver, an spiritual entity on par with the Wyrm and in its way, just as dangerous and inimical to the Garou. Glass Walkers are also pro-humanity more so than any other tribe.
Red Talons are a tribe of wolf-borns that believe humanity is the root of everything that went wrong. If the Garou would just eradicate humans, the world could heal. This stereotype has barely been changed over the various edition and since this makes the Talons extremists even compared to the rest of the already fanatical Garou, the tribe is borderline unplayable in most groups.
Shadow Lords are ruthless and power-hungry. Their opinion is that the enemy doesn't fight honorable, so there's no reason for the Garou to do so, either. They also put much value into ambition; as a Shadow Lord, you're always supposed to strive for more, or you'll be seen as a weakling.
Silent Striders are wanderers that have been forced from their ancestral Egyptian homeland. They're cursed (literally, not just figuratively) not to be able to settle down or return to the lands of Khem. Part of that is also, that they have lost contact to the spirits of theit ancestors. They also have a strong connection to the Dark Umbra, i. e. the Lands of the Dead.
Silver Fangs are the rulers of the Garou and originally stem from Russia. As others already pointed out, they're similar to real-world nobility, in that they trace lineages, use that to justify their claims and also suffer from genetic flaws due to inbreeding (it's actually more complicated than just inbreeding, but that's unimportant here).
For the Uktena, "mystical native Americans" is probably the best description. Preserving native culture is important to them, and they extend that to all native cultures around the world, not just American ones. They're also big on magic and have many dark secrets passed down from ancient times.
For the Wendigo, Mark Hall nailed it when calling them "angry native Americans". Where the Uktena are looking forward and try to preserve what's still there, the Wendigo are still holding a (not unwarranted) grudge against Europeans, and the European tribes of Garou. They are also one of the more belligerent tribes and propagate being tough and unyielding.

The Stargazers are technically no longer a core tribe, since they left the so-called Western Concordiat (an agreement of the 13 tribes to work together to some extent). They originally hailed from Asia, especially India and Tibet, and returned there after one of their ancestral holy places got destroyed. They are ascetics, philosophers and warrior monks, with a hefty dose of Asian mysticism.


Feel free to ask more if you are interested, I've been GMing W:tA for the last 20 years and know my way around it. :smalltongue:

LibraryOgre
2021-02-05, 12:30 PM
(I had a young Fianna who wound up in a Get of Fenris sept because they needed to get him away from Boston, as he'd fathered a metis... on accident).



That's hilarious.


So, short story time. The character (and it's been years, so don't remember his name; it was "generic Boston name", and my character was a high school wrestler, justifying his 4 Brawl with a Wrestling specialization) was a lost Get of Fenris... father was Kinfolk on the outs with his Garou father. His older brother went away to college and came back a leech. The leech tried to get his whole family, but that triggered my character's First Change. He barely got away, his brother turned his whole family, and then my character had to hunt down and kill the vampires who were his father, mother, and little sister (his brother got away, becoming an Enemy). This left the character homeless, and so he bummed around on the streets for a while.

While there, he met with another young Lost Cub werewolf, and they hooked up. And she got pregnant with a Metis. And then they got found by their respective Tribes... Get of Fenris and Black Furies. And the Metis child was male.

So, my character got shipped off to the Fianna in this small town that was mostly kinfolk, because he had some cousins there. This is also the backstory I had to edit a bit, because the Storyteller declared it "too dark", and I wear "Too dark for the World of Darkness" as a badge of pride. ;-)

Morgaln
2021-02-05, 01:27 PM
So, short story time. The character (and it's been years, so don't remember his name; it was "generic Boston name", and my character was a high school wrestler, justifying his 4 Brawl with a Wrestling specialization) was a lost Get of Fenris... father was Kinfolk on the outs with his Garou father. His older brother went away to college and came back a leech. The leech tried to get his whole family, but that triggered my character's First Change. He barely got away, his brother turned his whole family, and then my character had to hunt down and kill the vampires who were his father, mother, and little sister (his brother got away, becoming an Enemy). This left the character homeless, and so he bummed around on the streets for a while.

While there, he met with another young Lost Cub werewolf, and they hooked up. And she got pregnant with a Metis. And then they got found by their respective Tribes... Get of Fenris and Black Furies. And the Metis child was male.

So, my character got shipped off to the Fianna in this small town that was mostly kinfolk, because he had some cousins there. This is also the backstory I had to edit a bit, because the Storyteller declared it "too dark", and I wear "Too dark for the World of Darkness" as a badge of pride. ;-)

That sounds like a pretty cool character. Would you mind sharing what you had to edit? I'm curious what was considered too dark, since I can imagine quite a few dark things to do with thatbackstory that I would consider quite acceptable.

LibraryOgre
2021-02-05, 01:45 PM
That sounds like a pretty cool character. Would you mind sharing what you had to edit? I'm curious what was considered too dark, since I can imagine quite a few dark things to do with thatbackstory that I would consider quite acceptable.

I don't recall, exactly. I think it was the killing of my little sister, possibly my parents, too, who was/were downgraded from "leech" to "dead".

aglondier
2021-02-06, 08:59 AM
I've found that a setup that works for me is to have three cairns within a reasonable distance set up and fleshed out in advance.

The players home cairn is pretty average and cosmopolitan (for garou), at least 6 tribes well represented, with 1 elder pack, a couple of mid-level packs, and the player's pack that is newly founded. The previous new pack has been lost, a plot hook for later.

Cairn 2 is further from civilization, and more militant. Red talons, get of fenris, black furies, shadow lords, or wendigo dominate here. They have a recently formed pack about equivalent to the players who will be great rivals, and perfect to bail the players out when they inevitably bite off more than they can chew.

The third one is inside the nearby city and controlled by glasswalkers and bone gnawers. It barely qualifies, and may not actually exist...except as an excuse to keep the get and talons from getting too psycho. They will help out lost players, and be very smug about how helpless they are in the city.

Tensions and politics between the three will provide a backdrop to the players story, allowing them to overhear things on occasion...more plot fodder...

aglondier
2021-02-08, 03:43 AM
...making me consider digging out the 40-50 kilograms of books I have boxed away and running a werewolf campaign again myself...


As for characters, there is a lot of room for interpretation and flexibility between tribe and auspice.
I, long ago, played a Shadow Lord Ragabash...who was also both a Catholic priest and a silver klaive wielding assassin...our single tribe pack were troubleshooters, making sure problems...went away...so that the Silver Fang sept alpha could keep his paws shiny and clean, but still never had to deal with them again...
A friend once played a Silver Fang who was a complete bum, but who was actually a skilled military commander...his crinos form had egg and bbq sauce stains...

GentlemanVoodoo
2021-02-09, 07:36 AM
Hi, I have a friend who wants to play werewolf the apocalypse and is a veteran of the game. But has not played for over a decade. He's also lazy, so has never been GM and refuses to GM this time. As I am the usual DM for our DND campaigns, the role of GM has landed on me. But I am finding it very hard to find reliable info about Werewolf the Apocalypse. Could some tell me what books I need and what the current edition is? Also any tips on being GM would be appreciated, as all I know about it is that there are werewolfs.

If doing WTA specifically (Werewolf the Apocalypse) use the 20th anniversary edition. This is the most recent version for WTA that has updates some rules and made it cleaner in many regards to prior editions.On general lore bits for the rping aspect, search youtube for the Gentleman Gamer. The playlist he has called Pentex Guide to Werewolves is about the best I've seen in a while and gives good insights to what the various tribes are about. As far as general DM types, realize WTA is a combat heavy game. While though there is political intrigue and some aspects of personal horror, combat is a heavy aspect of the system.

If you find the system to be a bit crunchy, there is also Werewolf the Forsaken which is a part of the Chronicles of Darkness product line. It's a streamlined rules light version of Werewolf that arguably is way more easier to learn than WTA. Currently this has only a second edition but does require also learning the standard World of Darkness rules first.

Requilac
2021-02-20, 09:37 PM
Hi, I have a friend who wants to play werewolf the apocalypse and is a veteran of the game. But has not played for over a decade. He's also lazy, so has never been GM and refuses to GM this time. As I am the usual DM for our DND campaigns, the role of GM has landed on me. But I am finding it very hard to find reliable info about Werewolf the Apocalypse. Could some tell me what books I need and what the current edition is? Also any tips on being GM would be appreciated, as all I know about it is that there are werewolfs.

If you are intimidated by the overwhelming amount of lore that is involved with World of Darkness, then you may want to consider Werewolf: The Forsaken instead of the Apocalypse. The systems obviously share a lot of similarities, and the core essences of them are the same, but W:TF (gotta admire that unfortunate abbreviation) is less focused on the labyrinthine setting that made up Old World of Darkness systems and allows for a smaller scale focus. W:TF is also significantly more streamlined and easier to learn than W:TA, though not everyone is happy with that because it translates into the removal of some character options from previous editions. All of the Chronicles of Darknes system are easier for newbies, actually. Currently White Wolf has two different variations of most systems going on, one in the Old World of Darkness line (including Vampire: The Masquerade and W:The Apocalypse) and one in the new line of Chronicles of Darkness (including Vampire: The Requiem and W:TF).

If this is your first time playing in a World of Darkness system, I would advise you to start out with a Chronicles of Darkness system like W:TF before moving into an Old World of Darkness system like W:TA, so you can get a feel for how they operate before deep diving into the family. The complexity of the Old World of Darkness systems can be hard to stomach for people inexperienced with the system. You sound kind of uncertain as to what to do at this moment, so just buying the Werewolf: The Forsaken main book and starting small might be the best launching point.