Investing Opportunities

[Sparky McDibben]

So I have a player who wants to have more hooks into the setting, and they've chosen to do that by asking about investing in various businesses. I've created a structure for that (see below), but what I need help with is finding ideas in which they can invest.

Some ideas I have now:


Funding a ship's voyage
Funding a caravan
Fund a heist
Sponsor a lower-level adventuring party
Fund a magical creation or invention
Upgrade or improve civic architecture / infrastructure


I need more of these ideas.

If anyone is interested, here is the structure if anyone wants to offer advice or feedback.


Assumptions:
Investments run on a 30-day cycle. Investments are not going concerns (that is, they last for 30 days and then the project ends). This structure will be used exclusively away from the table.

Structure:
Procedure of Play: Player chooses up to three investments and funds them up to a given investment level. 30 game days later, the player makes an ability check based on the specific investment. Their return is based on their skill check and the investment's attributes, and then the player may pick new investments.

Procedure of Play (DM): Once player funds their investment, roll 2d6 and compare that with the risk level, which produces a percentage modifier to their return. Then roll 2d8 + 5 to create the DC for the player's ability check. If they fail, the return is further reduced by 10% of the initial investment. If they succeed, the return is not modified further; for each increment of 5 by which they exceed the DC, the return is increased by 10%.

Investments: Investments are projects a player can choose to fund. Each investment has four attributes: a controlling ability (which determines the ability check made by the player), a risk level (High or Low), a reward level (which is a function of the initial investment, usually in increments of 5%), and an initial investment minimum (which the player must meet before they can be considered a vested interest and eligible for rewards).

Controlling Ability: Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, based on the nature of the undertaking.

Risk Level: High or Low. This acts as a modifier on the player's return.

High Risk Matrix:



2d6
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12


Return Modifier
0%
0%
0%
0%
80%
100%
120%
140%
160%
180%
200%



Low Risk Matrix:



2d6
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12


Return Modifier
0%
0%
0%
75%
80%
85%
90%
95%
100%
105%
110%



Reward: Roll 100% + (1d4 x 5)% and multiply the resulting percentage by the initial investment.

Initial Investment: 1d10 x 100 gp for Low Risk investments; or 1d6 x 1,000 gp for High Risk investments. This money is considered spent once invested.

Example of Play:

Dayne chooses to fund a ship's voyage to Ixalan. This investment is Intelligence-based, High Risk, requires an initial investment of (1d6 x 1,000) = 1,000 gp, and has a return of (1d4 x 5%) = 20%, or 1,200 gp. Once Dayne invests his 1,000 gp, the DM rolls 2d6 and compares it to the High Risk table. Yikes! A 6; not as bad as it could have been, but still not great. Dayne's return is now 960 gp (80% of 1,200). The DM sets the DC of the ability check by rolling 2d8 + 5, for 10. Dayne then makes his Intelligence check with a +3 bonus and gets an 18. Because that exceeded by the DC by 5, the return is increased by 10%, resulting in 1,056 gp as a final return (net of 56 gp over 30 days). The crew returns with wild legends of faraway Ixalan, including the Hidden Shrine of Tamachoan, which has untold wealth hidden within. And the crew now has a local contact who might be able to lead an expedition...for the right price.

[KorvinStarmast]

So I have a player who wants to have more hooks into the setting, and they've chosen to do that by asking about investing in various businesses. I've created a structure for that (see below), but what I need help with is finding ideas in which they can invest.

Some ideas I have now:


Funding a ship's voyage
Funding a caravan
Fund a heist
Sponsor a lower-level adventuring party
Fund a magical creation or invention
Upgrade or improve civic architecture / infrastructure


I need more of these ideas.

If anyone is interested, here is the structure if anyone wants to offer advice or feedback.


Assumptions:
Investments run on a 30-day cycle. Investments are not going concerns (that is, they last for 30 days and then the project ends). This structure will be used exclusively away from the table.

Structure:
Procedure of Play: Player chooses up to three investments and funds them up to a given investment level. 30 game days later, the player makes an ability check based on the specific investment. Their return is based on their skill check and the investment's attributes, and then the player may pick new investments.

Procedure of Play (DM): Once player funds their investment, roll 2d6 and compare that with the risk level, which produces a percentage modifier to their return. Then roll 2d8 + 5 to create the DC for the player's ability check. If they fail, the return is further reduced by 10% of the initial investment. If they succeed, the return is not modified further; for each increment of 5 by which they exceed the DC, the return is increased by 10%.

Investments: Investments are projects a player can choose to fund. Each investment has four attributes: a controlling ability (which determines the ability check made by the player), a risk level (High or Low), a reward level (which is a function of the initial investment, usually in increments of 5%), and an initial investment minimum (which the player must meet before they can be considered a vested interest and eligible for rewards).

Controlling Ability: Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma, based on the nature of the undertaking.

Risk Level: High or Low. This acts as a modifier on the player's return.

High Risk Matrix:



2d6
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12


Return Modifier
0%
0%
0%
0%
80%
100%
120%
140%
160%
180%
200%



Low Risk Matrix:



2d6
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12


Return Modifier
0%
0%
0%
75%
80%
85%
90%
95%
100%
105%
110%



Reward: Roll 100% + (1d4 x 5)% and multiply the resulting percentage by the initial investment.

Initial Investment: 1d10 x 100 gp for Low Risk investments; or 1d6 x 1,000 gp for High Risk investments. This money is considered spent once invested.

Example of Play:

Dayne chooses to fund a ship's voyage to Ixalan. This investment is Intelligence-based, High Risk, requires an initial investment of (1d6 x 1,000) = 1,000 gp, and has a return of (1d4 x 5%) = 20%, or 1,200 gp. Once Dayne invests his 1,000 gp, the DM rolls 2d6 and compares it to the High Risk table. Yikes! A 6; not as bad as it could have been, but still not great. Dayne's return is now 960 gp (80% of 1,200). The DM sets the DC of the ability check by rolling 2d8 + 5, for 10. Dayne then makes his Intelligence check with a +3 bonus and gets an 18. Because that exceeded by the DC by 5, the return is increased by 10%, resulting in 1,056 gp as a final return (net of 56 gp over 30 days). The crew returns with wild legends of faraway Ixalan, including the Hidden Shrine of Tamachoan, which has untold wealth hidden within. And the crew now has a local contact who might be able to lead an expedition...for the right price.
What class is the player? Starting in, or becoming a partner in, a thieves guild should turn a profit. :smallwink:

[Sparky McDibben]

What class is the player? Starting in, or becoming a partner in, a thieves guild should turn a profit. :smallwink:

Bard, but the party has links to a local organized crime group via the barbarian. I know I put heist on there, but this is a good point. Maybe I need subtables?

Crime
1 - Heist
2 - Blackmail
3 - Gang war
....

Etc?

[KorvinStarmast]

Bard, but the party has links to a local organized crime group via the barbarian. I know I put heist on there, but this is a good point. Maybe I need subtables?

Crime
1 - Heist
2 - Blackmail
3 - Gang war
....

Etc? Oh, yeah, and only gang war if someone is encroaching on your turf. Add in smuggling, drug running, gambling (illicit), and if your table is up for really gritty and dark stuff, prostitution / flesh trade / slavery. But when it gets to that level of dark don't just go there, sound out the rest of the group. There may be lines they'd rather not cross.

Vito Corleone didn't get rich by running a dry cleaning store. He got rich pandering to vice and various human weaknesses. (Marlon Brando's character from The Godfather)

And while you are at it, have a small cell who make money for the enterprise by selling Murder for Hire. :smallcool: Rogue has Assassin archetype, and the NPC assassin is crazy lethal in a well set up stabbery scenario.

And if, in this medieval setting, you want to go pure evil: manipulation of grain prices. :smalleek:

[Sparky McDibben]

Thanks for the ideas; the various crimes are probably a bit too far for my table, but they give me some good boundaries to work within. I'm thinking of using subtables like so:

2d6 (First d6 is the specific type of opportunity, while the second d6 is the specific sub-type)
1 - Funding A Ship's Voyage (High Risk, Intelligence, minimal Ancillaries)

1 - To Ixalan
2 - Trading With Merfolk
3 - To Neutral City
4 - To Enemy City (high Ancillaries)
5 - To Jade Empire
6 - To the City of Doors (planar)


2 - Funding a Caravan (Low Risk, Wisdom, high Ancillaries)

1 - To Northern Dwarf-holds
2 - To Open New Trade Route
3 - To Elven Domains
4 - To Wizard's College
5 - To Halfling Communities
6 - To Underdark


3 - Criminal Activity (High Risk, Charisma, some Ancillaries)

1 - Heist
2 - Character Assassination
3 - Running A Scam
4 - Start a Gang War
5 - Sabotage
6 - Arson


4 - Sponsor an Adventuring Party (Low Risk, Charisma, high Ancillaries)

1 - Explore A Nearby Dungeon
2 - Deal With Local Bandits
3 - Capture / Train Owlbears
4 - Spy on PCs Rivals
5 - Retrieve An Item / Person
6 - Clean Out Sewers From Local Pests (Giant Rats, etc)



5 - Fund Arcane Innovations (High Risk, Intelligence, Access to 1d4 of the Innovation)

1 - Tesla Coils (C&C-style)
2 - Goggles of Magic Detection
3 - Short-Term Familiars (Rent-A-Familiars?)
4 - Arcane Explosives
5 - Disposable Constructs
6 - Greater Potions of Healing (small batch)


6 - Fund Civic Architecture / Infrastructure (Varies)

1 - Shore Up City Walls (No Return, +5 Renown with City Council)
2 - Refurbish Temple (Either 50% Return, or No Return and half-off temple services for 1 month)
3 - Care For Refugees (No Return, +5 Renown with City Council and Refugees)
4 - Map / Repair Sewers (No Return, high Ancillaries, +5 Renown with City Council)
5 - Donate to City Watch (No Return, PC crimes ignored for 1 month)
6 - Fund a Dispatch Service (As Low Risk, Wisdom, High Ancillaries)



I also need a list of things I can use for Ancillary items; things that these investments might bring back. Plot hooks are the obvious one, but what about followers? Minor magic items? Treasure maps?

[Keravath]

You have a bunch of good ideas but you seem to have missed the basics ...

- own a shop or business - food, blacksmith, restaurant, leather worker, guild artisan - basically anything associated with any sort of tools in 5e could operate as a business. Give someone start up money in return for a share of the business and share in profits.

- start a protection racket - hire some mercenaries and charge all of your businesses extra overhead for "protection". Since you know everything they make you know what they can afford and can squeeze them for extra profits (criminal/evil choice only)

- purhase a tavern/inn/gaming house/house of "ill-repute" - service businesses make money providing alcohol, accommodation, entertainment etc.

[Sparky McDibben]

You have a bunch of good ideas but you seem to have missed the basics ...

- own a shop or business - food, blacksmith, restaurant, leather worker, guild artisan - basically anything associated with any sort of tools in 5e could operate as a business. Give someone start up money in return for a share of the business and share in profits.

- start a protection racket - hire some mercenaries and charge all of your businesses extra overhead for "protection". Since you know everything they make you know what they can afford and can squeeze them for extra profits (criminal/evil choice only)

- purhase a tavern/inn/gaming house/house of "ill-repute" - service businesses make money providing alcohol, accommodation, entertainment etc.

Thanks, but see above regarding "going concerns." They already have an inn and this guy is turning a recently acquired noble estate into a B & B. I'm trying to avoid this turning into Fantasy Monopoly.

[Nifft]

Thanks, but see above regarding "going concerns." They already have an inn and this guy is turning a recently acquired noble estate into a B & B. I'm trying to avoid this turning into Fantasy Monopoly.

How about Fantasy Monopoly with Arson?

- Destroy a competing business using a deniable asset.
- Increase local demand by causing a disaster elsewhere.
- Fund a competitor in such a way that you can disappear the primary owner and take over.

Basically, kick-start a cycle of feuding and retribution which just keeps on giving.

[CapnWildefyr]

You also have mercenaries/guards to invest in, as in, someone guarding those caravans.

Mines? Craft guilds? As in, someone making the weapons or ships. Start a craze for long distance trade, and invest in the shipyards.

Start your own Lloyd's of London.

You also ought to be able to come up with some fun on the 'other side,' so to speak. Someone is generally doing these things already, so how do they react? A question might be: what in your campaign might have no competition yet? Sure there are caravans, but can they party think of anywhere to trade that is different? Can the PCs find these opportunities?

Also, aside from bribery -- which in many places is part of business -- there could be noble houses who need quiet money to shore up their debts, or noble houses whose debt you can buy (in a friendly or hostile way) and then manipulate them. Of course, that type of action can come with a lot of personal risk, if the nobles decide to snuff out the upstart peasant moneylender (you).

Oh, and con artists. "Yeah, I got this bridge for sale..."

Oh, one more -- a lot of roads and bridges were private 'turnpikes,' build and collect the tolls.

EDIT: It's a bard, right? Found a college. No payback, but prestige.

[Catullus64]

Just a friendly warning from a DM who implemented a fairly similar system of trade and commerce for players to engage with: it eats up a lot of time, as players carefully scrutinize the most optimal ventures, especially if party funds are involved. If your story has anything like a sense of urgency to its narrative, this will cut into that.

Involved and effective commerce systems in-game have to walk a fine line. On the one hand, it needs to be profitable, or else the players will feel like they wasted the play-time required to learn the rules and manage it. On the other hand, if it's too profitable, it makes the players start to wonder why they risk their necks stealing ancient gold from giant spiders or whatever, when they can make a similar profit sitting around in town throwing cash around.

[Sparky McDibben]

Just a friendly warning from a DM who implemented a fairly similar system of trade and commerce for players to engage with: it eats up a lot of time, as players carefully scrutinize the most optimal ventures, especially if party funds are involved. If your story has anything like a sense of urgency to its narrative, this will cut into that.

Involved and effective commerce systems in-game have to walk a fine line. On the one hand, it needs to be profitable, or else the players will feel like they wasted the play-time required to learn the rules and manage it. On the other hand, if it's too profitable, it makes the players start to wonder why they risk their necks stealing ancient gold from giant spiders or whatever, when they can make a similar profit sitting around in town throwing cash around.

Thanks! I've specifically set this up to be an out of game system that only requires a few rolls, so I hope the table time aspect is minimized. However, I think the real juice of the system is in ancillary material: rumors, plot hooks, etc. Any advice on how to work that into the structure?

[Catullus64]

Thanks! I've specifically set this up to be an out of game system that only requires a few rolls, so I hope the table time aspect is minimized. However, I think the real juice of the system is in ancillary material: rumors, plot hooks, etc. Any advice on how to work that into the structure?

In my game, I would come up with the dice-driven price fluctuations of certain goods, and then build plot and story hooks around the most drastic change. So, if the dice determined that the price of Metal Ores was going to go down, then the player who was engaging in trade would hear a rumor about a new vein discovered by nearby dwarven miners, and that would serve as a hook for an adventure in that mine. If the dice say that the price of Medicines was going to go up, that player would hear about a mysterious plague in a nearby fishing village, and that would drive them to investigate and discover a cult of a disease demon. Stuff like that.

Don't know how that would work with your system, frankly, which is less commodity-driven, but letting the dice results inform story hooks is a very fun approach. Just have short (2-3 session) adventures in your back pocket that could feasibly affect the supply or demand of the good or service that the player is investing in. It only works if you have a fairly open-ended, player-driven game: I eventually scrapped the system once the campaign began to pick up momentum along a specific story track.