How much Gold Should I give a player for establishing a trade route?

[Fishyninja]

Hi All.

General Backstory, this player's character is the son of a noble, his father and the noble family live in Waterdeep and the Father makes a lot of money by shipping goods up and down the Sword Coast.

A while ago the Party including the Noble's Son were in Chult and while he was there he decided a way to gain his fathers favour was to bring back goods from Chult and set up a trade route between his father and the Merchant Princes of Port Nyanzaru.

The Son managed to bring some goods and managed to bring letters of Introduction to his father and that has been where we have left it as they have been off doing other quests. I think enough time has passed that Next time in Waterdeep the Son gets some cash from the Trade Route.

Now primarily Chult was exporting spices and animal products to Waterdeep. Waterdeep was exporting silks and wines to Chult.

Is there any decent material on this or should I do a wet finger in the air amount of gold say 5 or 6k gold?

[Unoriginal]

Hi All.

General Backstory, this player's character is the son of a noble, his father and the noble family live in Waterdeep and the Father makes a lot of money by shipping goods up and down the Sword Coast.

A while ago the Party including the Noble's Son were in Chult and while he was there he decided a way to gain his fathers favour was to bring back goods from Chult and set up a trade route between his father and the Merchant Princes of Port Nyanzaru.

The Son managed to bring some goods and managed to bring letters of Introduction to his father and that has been where we have left it as they have been off doing other quests. I think enough time has passed that Next time in Waterdeep the Son gets some cash from the Trade Route.

Now primarily Chult was exporting spices and animal products to Waterdeep. Waterdeep was exporting silks and wines to Chult.

Is there any decent material on this or should I do a wet finger in the air amount of gold say 5 or 6k gold?

I mean, why would the son get cash from the trade route? He helped establish it, sure, but he's not involved in running it, nor did he invest his own money in the goods or ships that did the traveling past the original shipment he brought along with him.


Personally, I would go with "father is very proud of his son, is not worried about his capacity to keep the family's buisinesses flowing after the father's death, and decides to gift him X magic item that formerly belonged to one of his ancestors/relative, who was a hero of some renown".

Make it a pretty neat and thematically appropriate magic item, with the sense of ancient wonder that an heirloom emits, so that it's worthwhile.

[MaxWilson]

Hi All.

General Backstory, this player's character is the son of a noble, his father and the noble family live in Waterdeep and the Father makes a lot of money by shipping goods up and down the Sword Coast.

A while ago the Party including the Noble's Son were in Chult and while he was there he decided a way to gain his fathers favour was to bring back goods from Chult and set up a trade route between his father and the Merchant Princes of Port Nyanzaru.

The Son managed to bring some goods and managed to bring letters of Introduction to his father and that has been where we have left it as they have been off doing other quests. I think enough time has passed that Next time in Waterdeep the Son gets some cash from the Trade Route.

Now primarily Chult was exporting spices and animal products to Waterdeep. Waterdeep was exporting silks and wines to Chult.

Is there any decent material on this or should I do a wet finger in the air amount of gold say 5 or 6k gold?

I don't know the Forgotten Realms or Chult so take this with a grain of salt, but:

Make it a steady income stream so you can use it as an adventure hook.

For perspective, a 1% commission on captured enemy vessels bought into service is AFAIK in line with historical practice, so commissions don't have to be large in percentage terms as long as they're large enough to motivate the right behavior. So you probably don't have to estimate the total value of the trade route or the total profit for his father--if you later on do the math and discover that the trade route is likely worth 500,000 gold a year (the value of 700 skilled slaves) that isn't a problem, it was just a small commission. If turns out to be worth only 10,000 gp a year, oh well, I guess the dad was profit-sharing with the son. Also not a problem.

Because of that, I'd say your initial guess of 5000 gold is fine, with the promise of 5000 more every year as long as the trade route stays open. 5000 gold is enough to motivate PCs to respond to a threat to that income stream.

[heavyfuel]

I agree with Unoriginal.

Give them a decent enough quest reward and move on with it.

I mean, most Forgotten Realms campaign are over before the year is through, so 5k/year isn't exactly a steady income as far the Players are concerned.

[sophontteks]

It increases the wealth and power of your estate, but individual wealth is something for those sad lower class merchants, not nobility. If you want money, you just tax your estates.

This is morr about increasing the families power and prestige then getting individual wealth. I'd look at it more that his ability to call on favors by tapping into his noble background has increased.

[Doug Lampert]

I agree with Unoriginal.

Give them a decent enough quest reward and move on with it.

I mean, most Forgotten Realms campaign are over before the year is through, so 5k/year isn't exactly a steady income as far the Players are concerned.

Semi ditto.

I have a long running claim that adventurers investing in or getting a share of a business is nothing more than a plot hook. Any income from a business that doesn't require constant oversight and protection is negligible over the length of a typical campaign.

It's a nice plot hook, it ties the characters to the world, it gives them something to care about, but there's no reason it should produce enough income to matter over the course of a campaign.

In this case the father is going to have to invest a lot of money in getting a trade route fully established, guides, possibly waystations, possibly even fortified camp sites and armed escorts, finding and paying a reliable manager (who will almost certainly be a partner in the business), arranging details with someone on the other end who he's got those letters of introduction for, bribes to any intervening governments to not establish a prohibitive tariff and to give him a concession to send people through their territory. Say he dumps 200,000 GP into setup and the route returns an average of 50,000 GP a year (which would be spectacularly good). In four years or so he's actually got a profit to offer the son some of.

The son is either getting a one time payment for services rendered, a gift to indicate that dad is grateful for the help, or a share. The share is the only one that produces regular income, and it does not produce it fast. (Worse, limited liability partnerships/corporations are extremely anachronistic for D&D land, if the son is a partner, then he's fully liable for any debts of the new company, which gives him a strong incentive to help it succeed if say bandits or pirates attack the new trade route.)

It's a plot hook, not an income source. If you do epilogues at the end of campaigns, he gets to be the guy who's rich and famous 30 years later because he opened this route for his family.

[Unoriginal]

Could also get a cool nickname/epithet, like "the Sea Trader" or "the Merchant Prince", which people in the world will recognize.

[JonBeowulf]

+1 to "it's not about the money".

This is a plot gold mine. The father rewards him, sure, but how do the other high-ups in this trading company feel about the son's sudden emergence as the heir apparent? Is the son expected to hang up his armor and oversee the operation? How is the sea route protected? The Merchant Princes have their own political nonsense... how (and when) do they start exerting influence to muck things up?

Of course, a lot of that depends on what the player finds fun. Don't ruin the PC by railroading.

Or if you're just looking to toss some money at him and get on with things, then I'd just go 12d10*100 per year to simulate market fluctuations.

[JNAProductions]

What can the PCs spend the money on?
That should inform your answer.

I'll also echo Unoriginal-that's a good idea.

[JonBeowulf]

What can the PCs spend the money on?

It costs a lot of money to live like you have a lot of money. He's got to uphold the family's reputation and stuff like that.

[Angelalex242]

Practically speaking, if the PCs get 5000 gold, all the heavy armor guys are gonna instantly grab plate armor. Mediums will grab half plate.

Once everyone buys the most expensive armor money can buy...eh. There's not much to spend it on, except perhaps advantage on some persuasion checks.

[MaxWilson]

If you want the players to bite the plot hook, you have to make it worth their while.


Practically speaking, if the PCs get 5000 gold, all the heavy armor guys are gonna instantly grab plate armor. Mediums will grab half plate.

Once everyone buys the most expensive armor money can buy...eh. There's not much to spend it on, except perhaps advantage on some persuasion checks.

Poisons, Planar Binding / Simulacrum components, Revivify/Greater Restoration/Teleportation Circle components, hirelings with crossbows, attack dogs, equipment for hirelings (or animated skeletons), Glyphs of Warding (Raise Dead, etc.), spell research, healing potions, bribes...

Money is power. Not the only kind of power, but enough power that a 0th level PC with unlimited gold could have a good time playing D&D in even a Tier 4 party.

[Damon_Tor]

Hi All.

General Backstory, this player's character is the son of a noble, his father and the noble family live in Waterdeep and the Father makes a lot of money by shipping goods up and down the Sword Coast.

A while ago the Party including the Noble's Son were in Chult and while he was there he decided a way to gain his fathers favour was to bring back goods from Chult and set up a trade route between his father and the Merchant Princes of Port Nyanzaru.

The Son managed to bring some goods and managed to bring letters of Introduction to his father and that has been where we have left it as they have been off doing other quests. I think enough time has passed that Next time in Waterdeep the Son gets some cash from the Trade Route.

Now primarily Chult was exporting spices and animal products to Waterdeep. Waterdeep was exporting silks and wines to Chult.

Is there any decent material on this or should I do a wet finger in the air amount of gold say 5 or 6k gold?

Take a look at the downtime activities laid out in Xanathar's Book of All the Things. Look at the average expected income from a week of downtime (~50 gp IIRC, potentially more if you include a skill check and a chance for failure and/or consequences), figure out how much downtime was spent on establishing the trade route (probably "how long was the boat ride?") and do the math. That's how much he's owed as an immediate payment for his services. His dad could just pay him a lump sum up front, or he could reinvest that back into the family business, in which case treat it like buying a share in a shipping vessel and he then receives a percentile of the income from that vessel monthly (rules for income from owning a shipping vessel are found in Ghosts of Saltmarsh, but are also available for free in this Unearthed Arcana (https://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/UA_ShipsSea.pdf))

So according Ed Greenwood (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/08/15/our-fearless-crew-be-settin-sail-from-waterdeep-for-port-nyanzaru-how-long-would-the-journey-take/), it takes 2-4 workweeks to get from Waterdeep to Port Nyanzaru depending on the circumstances. Let's call it 3 work weeks, which would make the base value of your prince's work 150 gp.
But if I were you I would have him make three checks to potentially improve that:

A charisma (persuasion) check (DC 14, which is a noble's passive insight) to push for favorable terms
A wisdom (insight) check (contested vs a noble's deception check which is 1d20+5) to keep from getting swindled
An intelligence (history) check (DC 12 because it feels right) to make sure he's correctly assessing the market trends for the goods in question and the ports to be involved

Each check you succeed on adds another 50 gp in value to the deal. If you fail a check by 5 or more, subtract 50 gp from the value of deal.

Best case scenario, he succeeds on all three checks and makes a really good deal for great quality products and they're exactly what will sell well in the markets in question, and so his labor is worth 300 gp. That's a 1% stake in a galley, entitling him to .525 gold every month.

This is in addition to any personal wealth he's investing into the deal himself, assuming all he's doing is making the deal and investing nothing personally: if he bought the tradegoods using earnings from the dungeon, for example, the stake he buys could be much, much higher.