Order of Scribes & True Polymorph?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, I was wondering if it was possible for a Order of Scribes Wizard, who has cast True Polymorph on himself to turn into a Pit Fiend, to alter the element of his at-will fireballs? I assume not because he or she is no longer using spell slots to actually cast the spell? This is the same reason you can't adjust the element of your cantrips, or those from Spell Mastery/Signature spells?

[Captain Panda]

Hello all, I was wondering if it was possible for a Order of Scribes Wizard, who has cast True Polymorph on himself to turn into a Pit Fiend, to alter the element of his at-will fireballs? I assume not because he or she is no longer using spell slots to actually cast the spell? This is the same reason you can't adjust the element of your cantrips, or those from Spell Mastery/Signature spells?

He can't, but not for the reason you give. When you cast true polymorph all of your features except alignment and personality are replaced. So nothing you have as a wizard sticks.

[PhantomSoul]

Unless I'm missing a change to the feature (or interpreting as being the wrong feature), this doesn't work:



Awakened Spellbook
...
When you cast a wizard spell with a spell slot,
you can temporarily replace its damage type with
a type that appears in another spell in your spellbook,
which magically alters the spell's formula
for this casting only. The latter spell must be of the
same level as the spell slot you expend.
...


- It's not a wizard spell (for that casting)
- It's not using a spell slot

You might also have meant Shapechange, not True Polymorph (to retain features at all).

[Citadel97501]

He can't, but not for the reason you give. When you cast true polymorph all of your features except alignment and personality are replaced. So nothing you have as a wizard sticks.

That is clearly wrong, as we know that you keep many of your other traits such as the ability to rage as a Barbarian.

[PhantomSoul]

That is clearly wrong, as we know that you keep many of your other traits such as the ability to rage as a Barbarian.

As I mentioned above, you might be confusing True Polymorph and Shapechange. True Polymorph explicitly says you don't keep things like Rage, as confirmed in Sage Advice:




@JeremyECrawford If a raging barbarian is polymorphed through the spell Polymorph, is the rage still ongoing?

— Marc Sharma (@LeMarcSharma) September 6, 2017

Polymorph replaces your game statistics, including class features, with those of the beast. If you're a barbarian, you lose Rage. #DnD https://t.co/iTZhmWAE01

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/11/04/if-a-raging-barbarian-is-polymorphed-through-the-spell-polymorph-is-the-rage-still-ongoing/

[Captain Panda]

That is clearly wrong, as we know that you keep many of your other traits such as the ability to rage as a Barbarian.

No, you don't.

[MaxWilson]

As I mentioned above, you might be confusing True Polymorph and Shapechange. True Polymorph explicitly says you don't keep things like Rage, as confirmed in Sage Advice:

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/11/04/if-a-raging-barbarian-is-polymorphed-through-the-spell-polymorph-is-the-rage-still-ongoing/

Crawford didn't think this through, or he would have realized that the ability to initiate a Rage and the ability to cast Polymorph are both class abilities. If you can't maintain a Rage, then logically neither can you maintain a Polymorph, ergo self-cast Polymorph including the 10th level Transmuter feature is useless.

That ruling leads to useless, unfun places. I don't agree with it.

There's a good reason Crawford's Tweets are no longer considered official responses, even by Crawford. Checking Twitter while in line at the grocery store isn't a great place for deep thought.

[PhantomSoul]

Crawford didn't think this through, or he would have realized that the ability to initiate a Rage and the ability to cast Polymorph are both class abilities. If you can't maintain a Rage, then logically neither can you maintain a Polymorph, ergo self-cast Polymorph including the 10th level Transmuter feature is useless.

That ruling leads to useless, unfun places. I don't agree with it.

There's a good reason Crawford's Tweets are no longer considered official responses, even by Crawford. Checking Twitter while in line at the grocery store isn't a great place for deep thought.

I'd similarly rule that you could maintain a rage when polymorphed (its an ongoing effect at that point, and when in doubt rule of cool/fun prevails, especially since this means collaborating between party members), but initiating a rage (like using the scribe ability) would unambiguously be off-limits while polymorphed.

[MaxWilson]

I'd similarly rule that you could maintain a rage when polymorphed (its an ongoing effect at that point, and when in doubt rule of cool/fun prevails, especially since this means collaborating between party members), but initiating a rage (like using the scribe ability) would unambiguously be off-limits while polymorphed.

Agreed.
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[Captain Panda]

Crawford didn't think this through, or he would have realized that the ability to initiate a Rage and the ability to cast Polymorph are both class abilities.

Maintaining concentration has been confirmed to be something you can do while in form. I'd rule that you could initiate rage *before* the spell and keep it after the cast. What is lost by true poly is the ability to initiate/use any features, but if it has already been used I don't see any reason it would need to be abruptly halted.