PDA

View Full Version : 5e Warlock Patron: The Collection (a hexblade for Talisman Pact)



BerzerkerUnit
2021-02-07, 10:49 AM
Aloha, here's the development thread for The Collection, a Warlock Patron intended to benefit Talisman uses the way Hexblade works for Pactblade wielders. Inspirations: Restaurant to Another World, BIG, Needful Things, Dolls, Friday the 13th the series, Petshop of Horrors, Monkey's Paw, etc.

This subclass is perhaps one of the most readily breakable I've ever written. The intent is to offer the player a way to make faustian bargains with NPCs, fellow players, etc. As evidenced in an ep of Rick and Morty, if you just tell people the rub, the cursed items are easily abused. If a player looks at this and titters with glee at the option of loading the party up with "free magic items" I'd ban it. At their most generous a PC should look at the collection as a way to offer people help when they need it or work in the occasional morality lesson, encouraging buyers to toss the trinkets in a river when they're done or even offering to buy them back. And if they don't give up the power, that's on them.

The expanded spell list is intended to be a mix of things people typically want these kinds of items for, bravery, cure a disease, curse an enemy, to be BIG, a better warrior, etc.

Speaking of ironic or sudden deaths, I lean heavily on HP is a mix of luck and blood in the body. A sword blow that drops you to 1 hp may have actually missed by such a hair's breadth you see your life flash before your eyes.
So say a creature gets a trinket that makes them brave and tough (Heroism) so they can stand up to their bully. Soon they're using it to ask someone on a date, then to run for mayor. It's great. Then they nearly get run down by a horse, a near miss (but for our purposes we can look at that as HP loss) and then emboldened by the magic they step out into the street and a melon falls off a cart bonks them on the head and puts them in a coma. Most would shrug it off after a nap, but capped at 1 hp, every little thing becomes potentially sudden death. A trip down the stairs, a simple bar room brawl. 1 max hp 2 pts of damage is sudden and instant death. If the death can be Ironic, so much the better but I run NPCs as always assuming a single lucky stab might kill them (unless they’re clearly and wildly superior like giants or dragons and the like and a rain of arrows is incapable of killing them).


Warlock Patron: The Collection
Be it through a lifetime of diligent acquisition or happenstance inheritance, you have come into possession of a collection of trinkets with dark histories. Each one is a story, and in the hands of a being with a strong wish, each has the potential to bring disaster.

Expanded Spell List
1 Cure Wounds, Heroism
2 Enlarge/Reduce, Lesser Restoration
3 Tiny Servant, Haste
4 Death Ward, Leomund's Secret Chest
5 Contagion, Geas


8 Antipathy/Sympathy

Collector's Pride
At 1st level you gain proficiency in History as the storied backgrounds of your collection touch on numerous events in the past. If you are already proficient in History you can double your Proficiency unless you gain such a benefit from another source.

The Collection
At 1st level you acquire a collection of tiny curious trinkets with dark histories. The nature and specific histories of the trinkets are up to you or you can roll on the chart found in the Player's Handbook. You may have a number of trinkets equal to your Charisma score and can replace as many as you like with other tiny objects provided they have mysterious, whimsical, or sinister backgrounds. You can use any of these trinkets as an arcane focus for your Warlock spells.
A number of times per day equal to your Proficiency bonus, when you spend at least one minute selling one of these trinkets to an intelligent creature, you may spend a Warlock Spell Slot and imbue the trinket with a Warlock spell you know with a casting time of one action that does not consume an expensive material component.
If the creature accepts the item they become Charmed by you as long as they retain possession of the item and the trinket becomes a magic item with one charge. You can have a number of such imbued trinkets in existence equal to your proficiency bonus. Any time a Trinket is returned to your Collection it loses its special properties and no longer counts toward your limit of Imbued Trinkets.

The creature may use an action to spend the charge and cast the spell at the level of the spell slot used to create it, using your spellcasting modifier and Spell DC. If the imbued spell was a Cantrip the item uses your Warlock level to determine its effects. If the creature casts the spell again, it reduces its maximum hit points by an amount equal to the level of the spell slot used to imbue the item. If the creature doesn't have enough hit points to pay this cost it remains at or drops to one hit point and instead gains a level of exhaustion. The creature does not know its hit points are reduced in this way unless you tell them and this hit point loss cannot be recovered until the creature rids itself of the object and completes a long rest.

Others familiar with the creature may observe physical or behavioral changes like pale skin or a mad look in their eyes. An Identify Spell reveals the function and specifics of these items normally.

A creature that loses, attempts to cast away, or destroy your trinkets may do so normally, however the trinkets reappear in your collection after your next long rest.

If you choose Pact of the Talisman at 3rd level you can choose any Trinket in your Collection (or even one you have sold) to function as your Talisman and can choose a different item at the end of any short or long rest. While within 100 feet of a creature bearing your Talisman you may target them with spells with a range of Self, cast spells, and make spell attack rolls as if you were in their space instead of your own.
Selling Trinkets to NPCs should not be difficult in most campaigns, however what does the cure for a disease that doesn't involve begging a priest, or the power to curse one's enemy with a foul disease worth? Gold? Sure, but probably not only that. As long as your buyers are carrying one of your Trinkets you can coerce and cajole them for far more than one might think. And if you include discretion (always a must) then you may also have even greater leverage. Giving a wannabe wizard a wand that eldritch blasts his rival in a duel may earn you scholarly agent for life (however long that is if they keep using the wand...).
Collector's Box
At 6th level the magic of your collection infuses whatever you carry it in. This container becomes magically resilient with an AC equal to your spell DC and hit points equal to your Warlock level. It is immune to Psychic and Poison damage. The container can hold any number of tiny items that are part of your collection and the item you want is always on top and prominently displayed when you open the container to sell one.

As an action you can open the container and draw in yourself and a number of willing or surprised creatures within 10 feet equal to your proficiency bonus. A surprised creature can resist with a Charisma saving throw vs your Spell DC. The interior of the container is an extra dimensional space with breathable air and always an appropriate temperature and moisture level to preserve your collection. The interior appears as a 15 ft cube with whatever aesthetic considerations you prefer and your collection arranged as you desire. You can keep up to 500 lbs of other miscellaneous goods in this space, though you must be able to fit them through the door.

Willing creatures and surprised creatures that failed their save appear safe inside the container in spaces of your choosing while a free standing doorway sized for a creature of your race remains in the space you left. This obvious door leads into and out of the shop. It sits on a level surface or mounted into a wall if one is available, otherwise sinking or falling as appropriate. The door is visible from the outside, appearing as you choose but must be a fairly obvious path of ingress though you may place it in difficult to see or reach spaces. It has an AC equal to your spell DC and hit points equal to your warlock level and is immune to Psychic and Poison damage. It can be opened normally. You can remain inside for up to 1 hour or until the door is destroyed at which point all the creatures inside are teleported harmlessly to the nearest empty spaces around the door. The exterior door disappears when destroyed or when you exit the space at which time any creatures remaining inside or most recently added objects in excess of 500 lbs are harmlessly teleported to the nearest empty spaces around the door.

You can open the container in this way once and regain the use of this feature after a long rest. If your container is destroyed your Collection is harmlessly displaced into the nearest empty space. The next container you place at least part of your Collection in becomes a new Collector's box after you complete a long rest.

The interior of the collector’s box is an opportunity to express your character’s inner self. A Kobold might have rough cave walls, a pile in the middle of the floor as a hoard and a rock blocking a cave entrance while a Dwarf may have tidy shelves and pedestals. A halfling might have a small restaurant and bar and offer meals while patrons browse where a Hexblood might have wicker walls under a thatched roof and a door of hanging vines, with all their trinkets hanging in bulbous wicker cages. Go crazy!

Malevolent Memorabilia
At 10th level you can cast Animate Objects on your collection, animating up to 10 tiny objects. These objects are considered magical for the purposes of bypassing damage immunity and resistance. You can cast the spell in this way once and must complete a long rest or expend a warlock spell slot to do so again.

Piece de Resistance
Beginning at 14th level when you use your Collection feature you can choose to expend one of your Mystic Arcanum and Imbue a Trinket with it. You can have only one such Trinket it existence at a time and it counts toward your normal limit of Imbued Trinkets. Each time a creature uses the Trinket to cast the imbued spell after the first it reduces it's maximum hit points by the spell's level and you may use your Reaction to do one of the following:
-Reduce your age by 1 year to a minimum of young adulthood for your race
-Recover a Warlock Spell Slot
-Recover a number of hit points equal to your Warlock level + Proficiency bonus. Hit points beyond your maximum become temporary hit points.
You can perform this Reaction a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus and regain all uses after a long rest.


New Invocations
Library of Mystery
Prerequisites: Warlock 5, Collection Patron, Pact of the Tome
Several mysterious tomes can now be found in your Collection. When you imbue one of these books as you would a trinket you can instead have it become a Magical Book or Tome as found in the DM's Guide or Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. This book is not granted a charge by your Collection feature and instead uses the rules presented in its item description. The item can be common or uncommon. At level 11 it can be a rare item, at level 17 it can be a very rare item. If the book is consumed in its use, such as a Manual of Gainful exercise or Golem Manual, you lose the benefit of this Invocation until you gain a warlock level.

Horrific Petshop
Prerequisites: Warlock 7, Collection Patron, Pact of the Chain
Your Collection contains the spawn of several strange creatures or their eggs. You learn the spell Summon Aberration if you don't know it already. When a creature uses a Trinket to cast Summon Aberration, you can share its senses as you would a familiar. Additionally, you can apply the benefits of any Invocation with a Pact of the Chain prerequisite to the Aberration as you would your familiar.

Memento Mori
Prerequistites: Collection Patron, Pact of the Blade
You have acquired a number of fine weapons for your Collection. When you imbue one of these weapons as you would a trinket you can instead have it become a Magical Weapon as described in the DM's Guide or other sources chosen by the DM. This weapon is not granted a charge by your Collection feature and instead uses the rules presented in its item description. The item can be common or uncommon. At level 11 it can be a rare item, at level 17 it can be a very rare item.

Cursed Trinkets
Prerequisites: Collection Patron, Warlock Level 3
Your trinkets always return to the possession of the creature you sold them to. Even if lost, destroyed, or stolen the object reappears in a pocket, backpack, boot, etc. after their next short or long rest. A Trinket's owner can only rid itself of the Trinket by way of Remove Curse or similar magic. Additionally, you always know if part of your Collection comes into the possession of creature other than yourself or the creature you sold it to. You gain a general sense of the creature's nature and location at this time. You may use your reaction to expend a Warlock spell slot and imbue the item with the same or a new spell, allowing the new owner to use the Trinket normally, albeit possibly with unexpected results. The new owner then becomes Charmed by you as long as it retains possession of the item.

Every Child's Favorite Toy
Prequisites: Collection Patron, Eldritch Blast
Your Collection contains a number of Arcane Focuses that seem to sing to those with ill intent. When you Imbue one of these items with the Eldritch Blast Cantrip you can apply any or all of your Invocations that enhance Eldritch Blast.

Loek
2021-02-07, 01:07 PM
Alrighty. As you already mentioned in the preamble, this is meant to be rather powerful. As such I won't go into depth about how much the 1st level ability can be abused and broken.
Nor how much I personally don't like having it tied to selling things (which outside of someone going for Faustian bargains is almost a worthless skill)

That said, let's look at things.

1st level (Collector's Pride): Fun, thematic, but also rather underpowered. The expertise might be good. But just proficiency? (Of course, this pairs with the vastly overpowered other 1st level ability...)

6th level (Collector's Box): this seems like a more fancy bag of holding? Also, I'd like to know a little more on how things look on the outside? Does the door appear on the box? Is it tiny or normal sized on the outside? Can others enter your box through the door or is it limited to being an exit? Outside of this once a day drawing people in, can you get items out?

10th level (Malevolent Memorabilia): Basically a single free spell added to "spells known" with a single casting per day (with limited targets and not being allowed bigger items)? (With a possible addition of counting as magic weapons, but I'm not sure if the original spell doesn't add that to begin with).
Either way, it's basically like my least favorite type of invocations "one per day you can do this spell". Which isn't bad, but it is boring.
(Also, consider that other Patron's are granting free temp HP to the party, immunity to charm (with reflect), resistance to psychic damage (with reflect). So this seems meh)

14th level (The Price Comes Due): Pretty much the right feeling for what you are going for. Rather powerful and rather cool. It does have me wondering if maybe it needs to be something that slowly accumulates over the lifetime of the class, and not just appear at the end?


My suggestion:
Make what your magical trinkets can do something that scales. And slowly build what you as a warlock get out of it.

Don't give life energy items at that start, that are potentially permanent items. Make then single use originally. Add a limit to the how powerful the imbued spell is.
Hell, maybe the items originally don't even cast the spell, but instead create an illusion that looks like it cast the spell?

And make it something that you as warlock benefit from right from the get go. Maybe you learn some secret/thought from the person using the item? Maybe you gain some (temp) hitpoints? Maybe you get to spend those wasted hit dice on your next rest?

Beyond that, make the Collector box ability more clear. And you might have a fun (NPC) class. I strongly have my doubt about this system being used by a PC, while the items go to NPCs...

BerzerkerUnit
2021-02-07, 02:14 PM
Alrighty. As you already mentioned in the preamble, this is meant to be rather powerful. As such I won't go into depth about how much the 1st level ability can be abused and broken.
Nor how much I personally don't like having it tied to selling things (which outside of someone going for Faustian bargains is almost a worthless skill)

That said, let's look at things.

1st level (Collector's Pride): Fun, thematic, but also rather underpowered. The expertise might be good. But just proficiency? (Of course, this pairs with the vastly overpowered other 1st level ability...)

6th level (Collector's Box): this seems like a more fancy bag of holding? Also, I'd like to know a little more on how things look on the outside? Does the door appear on the box? Is it tiny or normal sized on the outside? Can others enter your box through the door or is it limited to being an exit? Outside of this once a day drawing people in, can you get items out?

10th level (Malevolent Memorabilia): Basically a single free spell added to "spells known" with a single casting per day (with limited targets and not being allowed bigger items)? (With a possible addition of counting as magic weapons, but I'm not sure if the original spell doesn't add that to begin with).
Either way, it's basically like my least favorite type of invocations "one per day you can do this spell". Which isn't bad, but it is boring.
(Also, consider that other Patron's are granting free temp HP to the party, immunity to charm (with reflect), resistance to psychic damage (with reflect). So this seems meh)

14th level (The Price Comes Due): Pretty much the right feeling for what you are going for. Rather powerful and rather cool. It does have me wondering if maybe it needs to be something that slowly accumulates over the lifetime of the class, and not just appear at the end?


My suggestion:
Make what your magical trinkets can do something that scales. And slowly build what you as a warlock get out of it.

Don't give life energy items at that start, that are potentially permanent items. Make then single use originally. Add a limit to the how powerful the imbued spell is.
Hell, maybe the items originally don't even cast the spell, but instead create an illusion that looks like it cast the spell?

And make it something that you as warlock benefit from right from the get go. Maybe you learn some secret/thought from the person using the item? Maybe you gain some (temp) hitpoints? Maybe you get to spend those wasted hit dice on your next rest?

Beyond that, make the Collector box ability more clear. And you might have a fun (NPC) class. I strongly have my doubt about this system being used by a PC, while the items go to NPCs...

Thanks so much for a prompt reply!

My intent wasn't to immediately cut discussion of the first level feature, even I recognize it may need to be reigned in somehow, but just to avoid getting bogged down in discussion of how it's broken. The critique that their should be some kind of balance/exchange for using the item from the start is a good one rather than waiting till L14. Even as it is, it's somewhat viable even if the player goes to great lengths to exploit it. At level 1 you can only have 2 trinkets and assuming you sell them to party members for 1 cp each you still have action economy issues. Assuming the party members immediately smash them, they don't come back until the following day and the Warlock needs an hour to recharge. Maybe some edge case interactions are possible with Catnap and other 1 hour durations... I guess if you're Chain Pact you could maybe sell to your familiar and that could be a problem but no more so than normally handing items off to your familiar.

I'm all ears if you see anything that screams an immediate red flag. The warlock list isn't exactly awash in great spells. At level 5 maybe passing out Haste to 3 party members is something, but when you look at the reality, the average party will only have 2 PCs that actually benefit from Haste by more than a small margin, an extra attack from a rogue will be a d8+4.

Strictly speaking the Trinkets effects scale by default. As you level you can have more of them passed out at one time, the level of the spell you imbue rises with your spellcasting as does the effect of the spell depending on spell slot. Creating a price that you benefit from rather than just whitling away a resource NPCs generally never get to spend seems like a good idea, just not sure how to implement.

Collector's Box is a few things. Bag of Holding, Rope Trick spell, Weak Control, and circumstantially Amazing Defense (edit needed to include range on Draw In). there are a few scenarios not obvious in the explanation that make the Box pretty spectacular while also limited. Edit needed: add an "if it's destroyed/needs replaced" clause.
1. Storage. It holds the trinkets of which there could be hundreds or thousands depending on trinket size. It also stores anything you can fit through the door up to 500 lbs (small PCs get a slight nerf there). Limit, you can only access it all for 1 hour a day but you can always pull the trinkets out of it (Edit needed: got to make that clear too).
2. Rope Trick. As a 1 hour cool/dry place you can take a short rest in there if you have a party of 4 or less.
3. Weak Control. Let's say you get the drop on some bad guys, you might be able to pull a few of them into the Box with you while the party gets to work on what's left outside. As written and intended, the badguys can just walk out on their turn so it's a weak effect but blocking LOS, not to mention the psychological element of "suddenly in shop with interesting things" may avoid a conflict all together. Who knows if an Orc courtesan might be desperate for a Lesser Restoration to cure their foot fungus before an important meeting?
4. Amazing defense. Circumstantial but maybe the warlock has Alertness and the party gets surprised by a Dragon or Wizard. The Warlock pops the box, pulls the party in, the enemy AOEs the door, which promptly breaks dumping the party harmlessly back where they were, maybe no longer surprised. Or maybe you're all falling out of an airship, pop the box, sit in the store until the door hits the ground and explodes into flinders, dumping the party harmlessly back on the ground.

Overall generally useful in niche situations, but being able to instantly set up shop in any bazaar is part of the schtick.

Malevolent Memorabilia-
Might have shown up in the next edit after you started posting, but this already says it's 1/day for free or spend a warlock spell slot to cast again. Pound for Pound Animate Objects is maybe the highest damage 5th level spell in the game. Its major limitation is that it can normally only target nonmagical objects meaning damage resistance and immunity applies regularly, though a bandolier of Adamantine daggers and a handful of silver coins can help a lot. Having the objects count as magical is a major upgrade and the # of times you can use it as a warlock is a major bump in personal power (a perceived necessity since so much of the class is focused on passing out candy to others).

There's a utility limit here since you can't target objects larger than tiny, though you should always have plenty of them. And while I appreciate your subjective analysis on your personal level of interest in this feature's mechanical implementation, the idea of causing a bunch of creepy dolls and toys to climb out of your bag like it's the Nightmare Before Christmas and your Evil Santa makes this maybe one of the best parts despite its simplicity.

14th level's Price Comes Due
I agree that some aspect of this feature's theme needs to be present at level 1. I added an invocation available at level 2 that allows an indefinite charm if a creature agrees to pay in some kind favor. The charm only ends if the creature gets a Remove Curse etc or completes the favor. So an NPC either does what they're asked or can be harangued to do all manner of other things. I didn't see this as too strong since it's generally understood that the 14th level GOOlock feature is a joke.

Maybe if from level 1 whenever a creature within 100 feet uses the trinket to cast the spell you can use your reaction to gain temporary hitpoints equal to your Warlock level + the level of the spell slot... But that's a lot of tankiness for subclass that isn't focused on melee... Maybe dealing psychic damage? I'm open to suggestions.

I'm also hoping for feedback on the Invocations specific to the other Pacts.

Overall I thought the Talisman specific effect would get more notice. Putting Self spells on other creatures is usually pretty hard to come by, with Steed spells and Artificer Spell Storing items some of the few methods I'm aware of. That said, slapping a level 5 Armor of Agathys on the Barbarian is something I know I've been desperate to do forever.

Loek
2021-02-07, 03:18 PM
Oh, I hadn't thought of "Malevolent Memorabilia" in the sense of an army of creepy dolls or such. That does make it far more fun thematically. And having googled some sage advice and discussions on the topic, the magic damage does indeed make the spell more fun. (I still dislike that type of invocations, but if cast in a more thematic light + upgrade/own direction, it's already significantly better). Verdict: Maybe a Patron specific invocation (level 9 or 11 requirement)?

As I said before, the "Collector's Box" sounds like a really fun tool. Not overly powerful, but very much something that can be used in many a creative ways. Verdict: Needs more information/clarity, but I love it.

As for the self spells, technically the feature as a whole already does this (if you invest the item with said self spell). So it's either a further boost of the already broken "I gave my team mates more toys to play with" side of things, or a minor bump to the Faustian side of things (Though I don't know many Warlock spells you'd be casting on your victims, most of the time). Verdict: *shrug*


My suggestion:
At level 1 have 3 things:

A free proficiency in history (no expertise - maybe a side thingy that says if you are already proficient, it should be put into another knowledge skill?)
The ability to make the items (I know the amount (proficiency mod) and spell level (spells known) already limit it, and the cost is a spell slot used. But I can't help but feel that maybe there needs to be "cost" of keeping them active... Especially as someone can keep it for a day, you rest to get your spells back, tada free 2 spell casts per 2 days)
A new ability to get a benefit of the item's usage (A single idea/secret? A few temp HP per hit dice burned? A minor, one use, bump to a skill use associated with the item's owner?)


At level 6:
The Collector's box with more (and with less chance of interpretation errors)
(But also a tiny boost to your item related features. Maybe self spells are now possible? Maybe the cantrip starts to scale? Maybe it no longer halves damage? Something like that. And you are creator get more in return as well (could just be a dice increase/usage increase or what not)

At level 10:
A true boost to the item and your benefits
(Minor boosts to the Collector's box: size, storage, amount of times it can be opened?)

At level 14:
Both reach their max usability. Box => you can use it like a bag of holding, next to it's limited instant store features. Items => Something in the general direction of the existing level 14 feature.


Mostly just spouting ideas of the top of my head. I hope something is of use to you.

BerzerkerUnit
2021-02-07, 04:14 PM
Oh, I hadn't thought of "Malevolent Memorabilia" in the sense of an army of creepy dolls or such. That does make it far more fun thematically. And having googled some sage advice and discussions on the topic, the magic damage does indeed make the spell more fun. (I still dislike that type of invocations, but if cast in a more thematic light + upgrade/own direction, it's already significantly better). Verdict: Maybe a Patron specific invocation (level 9 or 11 requirement)?

As I said before, the "Collector's Box" sounds like a really fun tool. Not overly powerful, but very much something that can be used in many a creative ways. Verdict: Needs more information/clarity, but I love it.

As for the self spells, technically the feature as a whole already does this (if you invest the item with said self spell). So it's either a further boost of the already broken "I gave my team mates more toys to play with" side of things, or a minor bump to the Faustian side of things (Though I don't know many Warlock spells you'd be casting on your victims, most of the time). Verdict: *shrug*


My suggestion:
At level 1 have 3 things:

A free proficiency in history (no expertise - maybe a side thingy that says if you are already proficient, it should be put into another knowledge skill?)
The ability to make the items (I know the amount (proficiency mod) and spell level (spells known) already limit it, and the cost is a spell slot used. But I can't help but feel that maybe there needs to be "cost" of keeping them active... Especially as someone can keep it for a day, you rest to get your spells back, tada free 2 spell casts per 2 days)
A new ability to get a benefit of the item's usage (A single idea/secret? A few temp HP per hit dice burned? A minor, one use, bump to a skill use associated with the item's owner?)


At level 6:
The Collector's box with more (and with less chance of interpretation errors)
(But also a tiny boost to your item related features. Maybe self spells are now possible? Maybe the cantrip starts to scale? Maybe it no longer halves damage? Something like that. And you are creator get more in return as well (could just be a dice increase/usage increase or what not)

At level 10:
A true boost to the item and your benefits
(Minor boosts to the Collector's box: size, storage, amount of times it can be opened?)

At level 14:
Both reach their max usability. Box => you can use it like a bag of holding, next to it's limited instant store features. Items => Something in the general direction of the existing level 14 feature.


Mostly just spouting ideas of the top of my head. I hope something is of use to you.

Much appreciated!

I've retooled the 1st level feature significantly. Replacing the hit dice mechanic with a reduction to max hp. That should apply the hammer to too many "free castings." Having played and DMd for Warlocks extensively and recognizing that as a 9 level caster they do a remarkable amount of Eldritch Blasting, a few "free castings" of their other spells doesn't seem too extreme a boon. How it impacts the action economy is a different story altogether, however by rolling my "fix" invocation into the feature I think I've gotten the desired exchange rate down (Edit needed- getting a trinket back).

Now when you make the deal the creature is Charmed by you as long as they retain the trinket. I know a lot of Players that would immediately say no to dealing with the Warlock, largely bc of the consent issues raised by that condition. Then again I've been at some tables that might immediately try and pass one out to everyone so there's one less viable target if someone is dominated... eh, players gonna play.

But for NPC purposes, this is a big deal given how the Charmed is consistent advantage on persuasion/Intimidation. While agree it's generally unlikely you'll be able to persuade someone to do something dangerous, I give a lot more latitude when the Charmed condition is in play bc I compare it to the exceedingly dumb things I did to impress girls (jump off a roof, free climb a 15 foot rock with no gear and jump down, eat some ritalin I wasn't prescribed and write a paper for them during an all nighter so they'd go out on a weekend). So when something is Charmed, I let boundaries of common sense be pushed.

Selling your Talisman- yes, you can sell another trinket to a PC and let them cast the spell on themselves, however, shooting Grasp of Hadar eldritch blasts out of the talisman to pull foes toward the Sword and Board Fighter while he's covered in Armor of Agathys and wielding your Shadowblade spell creates some tactically interesting options.

Box. I think the Box has been covered with clarification. Even with the limit on 1/day access, the ability to replace the 500lbs of storage with 500lbs of portable holes to multiply the possible weight to a near infinity is enough.

Malevolent Memorabilia- The problem with making it an Invocation is that it is so strong it just becomes a choice so blisteringly obvious you're nerfing yourself to not take it. That makes it an invocation Tax and whatever feature replaces it becomes a nice bonus or if comparable, way overtunes the patron. I'd rather keep it a core element, your cursed dolls and murdered bride's wedding gown and monkey's paw come to life to kill your foes (or victims whatever) and think of another invocation. Also following the invocation pattern it should also be limited to 1/day by spending a slot and we all kind of agree that's a terrible mechanic. At higher level the additional castings are really kind of needed more regularly to keep this warlock "competitive" with other full casters (I do not think of it as a race, I think if I have a Warlock standing in for a Wizard as the party arcanist I want their performance to be comparable rather than see running with a Warlock as a handicap). As a feature there's more freedom to add it as a free 1/day with repeat use for spell slots.

That leaves the level 14 which now needs to be mostly retooled. I'm going to keep the path to immortality, allowing you to reduce your age by a year when a creature reduces max hp, but that's generally a fluff ability. (Edit needed on Invocation allowing you to Imbue them if they're stolen and clarification on Talisman that you can declare any of your Trinkets to be your Talisman at the end of a Short Rest, even the one's you've sold allowing you to teleport to a potential thief or mark).

BerzerkerUnit
2021-02-07, 05:41 PM
Alright, this looks workable.

A subclass like this is difficult to sell bc they are focused on spreading schtick. Yes, giving everyone what is essentially a potion of Enlarge or disguise self for pennies is great, however, Action economy, concentration requirements and so on all boil down to "does the class I'm playing have something I'd rather do with that resource?"

In my experience the answer is usually yes. No matter how many times I see an Artificer try to pass out magic weapons or items, I keep seeing players stare at their own sheet to see if they have the thing they need to do a thing and when they don't wait for someone else who has that thing to do it instead.

The wording on this is pretty specific, you can't sell the trinkets to yourself, they become normal as soon as they're returned to you. There's some leeway if you go chain pact, selling a slaad tadpole to one of the bad guys and then being able to have it turn on him if you have the Investiture Invocation. The RAW interaction there is a little weird but you can kind of action surge it as long as someone else is willing to concentrate on it, but I also know a lot of PCs are right out after they hear "Charmed" and "reduce max hp" and I don't blame them.

Edit needed for Piece de Resistance to clarify you have to expend a use of the Mystic Arcanum not a warlock slot...

faustin
2021-02-08, 10:12 AM
Level 10 could be a magical item whose attunement doesn´t count to the maximum permited.

BerzerkerUnit
2021-02-08, 11:06 AM
Level 10 could be a magical item whose attunement doesn´t count to the maximum permited.

Could you expand on that?

I have a Dragon Patron write up that allows you to pull an item of a given rarity from your Patron’s Horde, the mechanic could work here, but it gets away from this being a support focused subclass.

faustin
2021-02-08, 06:00 PM
Could you expand on that?

I have a Dragon Patron write up that allows you to pull an item of a given rarity from your Patron’s Horde, the mechanic could work here, but it gets away from this being a support focused subclass.


Like I said, an unique magical item among your collection which can be temporally bound to anyone beyond the usual 3 max.