Replicate Magic Item+Spellwrought Tattoo+Find Familiar

[Ogun]

Would this work?
If so, exactly how would it work?
A familiar for anyone who wants one?
It seems to me you could infuse a needle, then you or someone else could use the needle, then use the tatoo to cast Find Familiar and after your next long rest, you could rinse and repeat.

I'm probably wrong,but I'm not sure how.

[ftafp]

Would this work?
If so, exactly how would it work?
A familiar for anyone who wants one?
It seems to me you could infuse a needle, then you or someone else could use the needle, then use the tatoo to cast Find Familiar and after your next long rest, you could rinse and repeat.

I'm probably wrong,but I'm not sure how.

it works. this was the first thing everyone pointed out when tasha's changes to the artificer came out

[meandean]

Would this work?
If so, exactly how would it work?
A familiar for anyone who wants one?
It seems to me you could infuse a needle, then you or someone else could use the needle, then use the tatoo to cast Find Familiar and after your next long rest, you could rinse and repeat.

I'm probably wrong,but I'm not sure how.Sterilize the needle, don't just rinse it! :smallcool:

Yeah, someone messed up here. If you can't make a scroll, you shouldn't be able to make what amounts to a scroll. At the very least, you should have to know the spell yourself. But, it says you can do it, so go nuts.

[Ogun]

I'm late the party, as usual.
So artificers arent just the pet class, they're the pet shop class...
Next obvious question, can Familiars use spellwrought tattoos?
Ok, let's skip that, there's no upside to making the game unplayable, and 4 or 5 ravens is murder enough.
Just the messaging capabilities would be amazing.
I love me some minions.

[stoutstien]

I'm late the party, as usual.
So artificers arent just the pet class, they're the pet shop class...
Next obvious question, can Familiars use spellwrought tattoos?
Ok, let's skip that, there's no upside to making the game unplayable, and 4 or 5 ravens is murder enough.
Just the messaging capabilities would be amazing.
I love me some minions.

RaW familiars cannot use the spellwrought tattoo because due to the command word. So with enough time an artificer could give everyone and their mother a familiar the infinity chain isn't an issue.

[Ogun]

Huh.
Too many editions in my head, I was probably thinking of pf2 familiars.
One could argue that ravens can speak the command word, but I'd rather not.
A world filled with owls, Harry Potter style, is more than enough for me.

[Amnestic]

RaW familiars cannot use the spellwrought tattoo because due to the command word. So with enough time an artificer could give everyone and their mother a familiar the infinity chain isn't an issue.

It doesn't make it infinite but chainpact familiars can speak command words, so it can add an extra familiar to your flock if you have a chainpact warlock.

[Millstone85]

It doesn't make it infinite but chainpact familiars can speak command words, so it can add an extra familiar to your flock if you have a chainpact warlock.On a related note, if the tattoo is put on the chainlock, does it allow them to summon their improved familiar without spending 10 gp of components?

[jojosskul]

On a related note, if the tattoo is put on the chainlock, does it allow them to summon their improved familiar without spending 10 gp of components?

It should allow that yes. The chainlock learns bog standard find familiar, they just have an extended list of familiars to choose from. Nothing stops a chainlock from using find familiar to get a regular toad, but why would they want to? So, any casting of find familiar, no matter the source, should let the chainlock summon one of their improved options.

[Segev]

Argument could be made that only the Artificer can attune the items made with this Infusion, but that's a strained reading and also a pretty big nerf on other possible items. It seems silly that the technologist couldn't give a cloak of elvenkind he's prototyped out to the party rogue, for example.

Another thing a DM would need to rule on: if he did take "Replicate 1st Level Spellwrought Tattoo," does he have to pick which spell he can make the tattoo of, or is the tattoo the magic item and he can pick whatever spell goes into it he wants? This is pretty powerful even without the ability to spread familiars around, if so, because it opens every 1st level spell in the game to Artificers, letting them prepare one casting of any one first level spell per day.

I think I agree: spellwrought tattoos should be on the list with potions and scrolls of things they can't replicate with this.

[Darth Credence]

There are several points of failure embedded in this. First, tattoos aren't on the list of items that can be made by an artificer, so the DM has to rule that you can do it with any common magic item.
Second, as Segev mentioned, it is certainly arguable that infusions can only work for the artificer. Based on the text under "infusing an item", I'd say that is intended, rather than a stretch of a reading. Specifically because it says, "If the item requires attunement, you can attune yourself to it the instant you infuse the item. If you decide to attune to the item later, you must do so using the normal process for attunement". I would go all in that this means only the caster can attune, except for the fact that they will persist for a time after the casters death. That makes me lean the other way, so it's a bit ambiguous.
Finally, if I were the DM, I'd rule that only wizards can form the bond with a familiar, so it does no one any good to summon one this way. Granted, that's not spelled out, but since you couldn't have a scroll of Find Familiar work for anyone without that spell on their class list, I wouldn't let it work this way for that.
In the end, I'd never get past the first one, because I would limit to things on the list, only.

[stoutstien]

There are several points of failure embedded in this. First, tattoos aren't on the list of items that can be made by an artificer, so the DM has to rule that you can do it with any common magic item.
Second, as Segev mentioned, it is certainly arguable that infusions can only work for the artificer. Based on the text under "infusing an item", I'd say that is intended, rather than a stretch of a reading. Specifically because it says, "If the item requires attunement, you can attune yourself to it the instant you infuse the item. If you decide to attune to the item later, you must do so using the normal process for attunement". I would go all in that this means only the caster can attune, except for the fact that they will persist for a time after the casters death. That makes me lean the other way, so it's a bit ambiguous.
Finally, if I were the DM, I'd rule that only wizards can form the bond with a familiar, so it does no one any good to summon one this way. Granted, that's not spelled out, but since you couldn't have a scroll of Find Familiar work for anyone without that spell on their class list, I wouldn't let it work this way for that.
In the end, I'd never get past the first one, because I would limit to things on the list, only.

Artificer can make any common magical item that isn't a scroll or potion. It's hiding at the end of the first paragraph of replicate magical item.

So the only stipulation is the item in question exists in game.

[Segev]

There are several points of failure embedded in this. First, tattoos aren't on the list of items that can be made by an artificer, so the DM has to rule that you can do it with any common magic item.
Second, as Segev mentioned, it is certainly arguable that infusions can only work for the artificer. Based on the text under "infusing an item", I'd say that is intended, rather than a stretch of a reading. Specifically because it says, "If the item requires attunement, you can attune yourself to it the instant you infuse the item. If you decide to attune to the item later, you must do so using the normal process for attunement". I would go all in that this means only the caster can attune, except for the fact that they will persist for a time after the casters death. That makes me lean the other way, so it's a bit ambiguous.
Finally, if I were the DM, I'd rule that only wizards can form the bond with a familiar, so it does no one any good to summon one this way. Granted, that's not spelled out, but since you couldn't have a scroll of Find Familiar work for anyone without that spell on their class list, I wouldn't let it work this way for that.
In the end, I'd never get past the first one, because I would limit to things on the list, only.

While I agree with your end ruling against allowing spell tattoos with this feature, I have to disagree with several of your points getting there. :smallredface:

It's a stretch to say only the Artificer can attune it for the reason you bring up regarding how long it lasts after his death, and also because the normal process for attunement is something anybody can do. It doesn't say anywhere that ONLY the Artificer can attune it, and the language we do have gives a special exception to how the artificer attunes (he can do it as part of imbuing), and a clarification that if he doesn't, he has to do it normally later before he can use it.

I also strongly disagree with only a wizard being able to form the bond. Anybody who gets the spell can do it. So, yes, a common tattoo needle of find familiar should work just fine. At 50 gp market price (base) per needle, plus whatever the DM rules it takes to shop for one (note that XGE gives us a process, and it adds more gp on top of the market value, and at least a week of seeking), it's a lot more expensive if you're not a caster with it on your spell list.

Unless the Artificer is doing it, but then, he IS spending a known imbuement on it. But still probably shouldn't be able to; they shouldn't be better at it than wizards are, who can only summon them for themselves and have to spend 10 gp each time.

[Darth Credence]

Artificer can make any common magical item that isn't a scroll or potion. It's hiding at the end of the first paragraph of replicate magical item.

So the only stipulation is the item in question exists in game.

It starts by listing the magic items that can be used. Then it says, "Alternatively, you can choose the magic item from among the common magic items in the game, not including potions or scrolls." I take that as doing it with any magic item is an alternate rule, not even the base rule in the "wholly optional" Tasha's.


While I agree with your end ruling against allowing spell tattoos with this feature, I have to disagree with several of your points getting there. :smallredface:

It's a stretch to say only the Artificer can attune it for the reason you bring up regarding how long it lasts after his death, and also because the normal process for attunement is something anybody can do. It doesn't say anywhere that ONLY the Artificer can attune it, and the language we do have gives a special exception to how the artificer attunes (he can do it as part of imbuing), and a clarification that if he doesn't, he has to do it normally later before he can use it.

I also strongly disagree with only a wizard being able to form the bond. Anybody who gets the spell can do it. So, yes, a common tattoo needle of find familiar should work just fine. At 50 gp market price (base) per needle, plus whatever the DM rules it takes to shop for one (note that XGE gives us a process, and it adds more gp on top of the market value, and at least a week of seeking), it's a lot more expensive if you're not a caster with it on your spell list.

Unless the Artificer is doing it, but then, he IS spending a known imbuement on it. But still probably shouldn't be able to; they shouldn't be better at it than wizards are, who can only summon them for themselves and have to spend 10 gp each time.

I agree it's a stretch, because it isn't very clear. But I can certainly argue for it either way as to who can use the items. I'd lean towards anyone.

I'm not sure where the quibble is with Find Familiar only allowing a wizard to make the bond. The spell I'm looking at on dndbeyond has it listed as a wizard only spell, so I would say that only a wizard can form the bond (or a pact of the chain warlock). Magic items can certainly be limited to specific classes, and the rules for the spell wrought tattoos are really open and vague. Since we need to get a DM ruling on pretty much everything going on here, it seems pretty likely that the DM ruling is going to say no to everyone getting a familiar.

[Segev]

It starts by listing the magic items that can be used. Then it says, "Alternatively, you can choose the magic item from among the common magic items in the game, not including potions or scrolls." I take that as doing it with any magic item is an alternate rule, not even the base rule in the "wholly optional" Tasha's.Technically the Artificer is "wholly optional." But the way that's worded, "alternatively" isn't saying "this is something even more optional than the rest," but rather, "You can make things on this list, and have alternatives of anything that's a common magic item." Reading "alternatively" as some how saying "ask your DM first, because this is totally more optional than the rest of these rules" is...inaccurate.


I'm not sure where the quibble is with Find Familiar only allowing a wizard to make the bond. The spell I'm looking at on dndbeyond has it listed as a wizard only spell, so I would say that only a wizard can form the bond (or a pact of the chain warlock). Magic items can certainly be limited to specific classes, and the rules for the spell wrought tattoos are really open and vague. Since we need to get a DM ruling on pretty much everything going on here, it seems pretty likely that the DM ruling is going to say no to everyone getting a familiar.
Warlocks get the find familiar spell as part of Pact of the Chain. They ALSO get additional options when they cast the spell, but they get the bond by casting the spell. Bards who take Magical Secrets for find familiar get the familiar. Anybody who takes find familiar with Magic Initiate or Ritual Caster gets it. All it takes to get the familiar bond is casting the spell. If you can cast it, you can get it.

[meandean]

It starts by listing the magic items that can be used. Then it says, "Alternatively, you can choose the magic item from among the common magic items in the game, not including potions or scrolls." I take that as doing it with any magic item is an alternate rule, not even the base rule in the "wholly optional" Tasha's.Agree with Segev that "alternatively" here means "alternatively to one of the items on the table right below this." If it meant "alternatively" in the sense of a variant rule, it would be explicitly labeled as such.


I'm not sure where the quibble is with Find Familiar only allowing a wizard to make the bond. The spell I'm looking at on dndbeyond has it listed as a wizard only spell, so I would say that only a wizard can form the bond (or a pact of the chain warlock).Certainly, if your Spellwrought Tattoo wasn't intended to work unless you were a class that could cast the spell embedded in the tattoo, they would have said that.

So, by RAW, it's fine. Going beyond RAW, I don't think I'd allow artificers to make Spellwrought Tattoos, because if you do allow it, why can't they also make scrolls? And even if they could make scrolls, I feel like it makes no sense to "scribe" a spell you don't know. It wouldn't be crazy to allow, though, because needless to say, you only get so many infusions. I'm not necessarily sure it's worth constantly devoting one of your infusions allowed to this. It's probably a straight upgrade on Homunculus Servant, but all of your other Tier 1 options are pretty darn useful, at least at that tier. Naturally, the options get better still as you progress, although you get more infusions to work with. Anyway, I think I'd veto it, but it's not a super-powered option.

[Pitfiend]

So, by RAW, it's fine. Going beyond RAW, I don't think I'd allow artificers to make Spellwrought Tattoos, because if you do allow it, why can't they also make scrolls? And even if they could make scrolls, I feel like it makes no sense to "scribe" a spell you don't know. It wouldn't be crazy to allow, though, because needless to say, you only get so many infusions. I'm not necessarily sure it's worth constantly devoting one of your infusions allowed to this. It's probably a straight upgrade on Homunculus Servant, but all of your other Tier 1 options are pretty darn useful, at least at that tier. Naturally, the options get better still as you progress, although you get more infusions to work with. Anyway, I think I'd veto it, but it's not a super-powered option.

I know that I am late to the party with this comment, but the problem with your statement is that the Spellwrought Tattoo with Find Familiar does not permanently take one of your infusions if you have the long rest times to swap in and out of your infusions.. For example you make the Spell Wrought Tattoo infusion with Find Familiar. You cast the spell, and your familiar is available until it dies.. The Tattoo has disappeared, and with another long rest you can choose 2 different infusions and your Familiar is still in play. You would just not be able to recast it when it dies without at least another 2-3 long rests to reset back to where you have a familiar again, with 2 other active infusions. Its a bit sketchy, and could be abused.. I think the best way to handle it would be to talk with your DM ahead of time, come up with some sort of compromise where you will not give all of your party members free familiars. And avoid some of the abuses, but still get a decent benefit from it.