Darkness and Faerie Fire

[Samayu]

Darkness: If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled.

Faerie Fire: Each object in a 20-foot cube within range is outlined in blue, green, or violet light (your choice). Any creature in the area when the spell is cast is also outlined in light if it fails a Dexterity saving throw. For the duration, objects and affected creatures shed dim light in a 10-foot radius.

So if any target of the FF is within the darkness at any time, FF is dispelled.

But the FF targets shed light. So if they're outside the darkness, does the light they shed penetrate the Darkness?

[Keltest]

My general thought is that the light created by faerie fire isnt magical in and of itself, but just a result of there being something on fire, and so while it would be blocked it would not be dispelled. I wouldnt blame anybody if they ruled it differently though.

[Samayu]

Light: the object sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.

Is the radius of the light considered to be magical light, which would dispel the darkness? Or would it be dispelled only when the glowing source goes into the darkness?

[JonBeowulf]

This version of Darkness is just terrible. Ill-defined for common cases and less so for edge cases.

[sits on rocking chair on front porch]

Back in my day it was an opaque sphere of black. You couldn't see into it, you couldn't see through it, and you couldn't see out of it. I don't recall it actually dispelling sources of light, but they certainly became ineffective once the source crossed the boundary.

[Rusvul]

The light shed by Faerie Fire cannot penetrate Darkness, no. If the Darkness's area overlaps the light shed by Faerie Fire, Faerie Fire is dispelled (as per the section you quoted). Darkness doesn't have to envelop the source of the light (the FF target), just overlap area (10 feet radius around the FF target).

EDIT: Unless, of course, you cast Faerie Fire as 3rd level or higher. Then Darkness doesn't dispel it, and it illuminates the Darkness area.

[sophontteks]

This version of Darkness is just terrible. Ill-defined for common cases and less so for edge cases.

[sits on rocking chair on front porch]

Back in my day it was an opaque sphere of black. You couldn't see into it, you couldn't see through it, and you couldn't see out of it. I don't recall it actually dispelling sources of light, but they certainly became ineffective once the source crossed the boundary.
I think this is still the best description. Like a black hole, you can see it because of its complete absence of light.

[Valmark]

Darkness: If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled.

Faerie Fire: Each object in a 20-foot cube within range is outlined in blue, green, or violet light (your choice). Any creature in the area when the spell is cast is also outlined in light if it fails a Dexterity saving throw. For the duration, objects and affected creatures shed dim light in a 10-foot radius.

So if any target of the FF is within the darkness at any time, FF is dispelled.

But the FF targets shed light. So if they're outside the darkness, does the light they shed penetrate the Darkness?
No because Darkness would dispel Faerie Fire when the lights overlap. Too weak.

Light: the object sheds bright light in a 20-foot radius and dim light for an additional 20 feet.

Is the radius of the light considered to be magical light, which would dispel the darkness? Or would it be dispelled only when the glowing source goes into the darkness?

Light is a cantrip- it would get dispelled when the light shed touches Darkness.

It's not magical light that dispels Darkness- it's magical light from a spell 3rd level or higher.

EDIT: This assumes you haven't upcasted Faerie Fire with a 3rd level slot (no idea if you can upcast a cantrip with slots, don't think so).

[Millstone85]

EDIT: This assumes you haven't upcasted Faerie Fire with a 3rd level slot (no idea if you can upcast a cantrip with slots, don't think so).You indeed can't upcast a cantrip. However, faerie fire is not a cantrip.

Edit: Oh, you were referring to light. Sorry.

[da newt]

"It's not magical light that dispels Darkness- it's magical light from a spell 3rd level or higher."

I'm pretty sure by RAW the above is true only for magical light created BY A SPELL. Magical light created by any source other than a spell dispels illuminates the AoE of Darkness - a magical item, a race or class feature, etc. Even a common magic item like the Moon Touched Sword (Xanthars) would illuminate the Darkness.

[Keltest]

"It's not magical light that dispels Darkness- it's magical light from a spell 3rd level or higher."

I'm pretty sure by RAW the above is true only for magical light created BY A SPELL. Magical light created by any source other than a spell also dispels Darkness - a magical item, a race or class feature, etc. Even a common magic item like the Moon Touched Sword (Xanthars) would dissipate the Darkness spell.

I dont believe that dispels the Darkness spell, as the spell text has no clause about being dispelled any time it is illuminated. But you would be able to use that magical light to illuminate an area under magical darkness, because Darkness doesnt block any magical lighting save that which it dispels on contact.

[Valmark]

You indeed can't upcast a cantrip. However, faerie fire is not a cantrip.

Edit: Oh, you were referring to light. Sorry.
Yeah, I wasn't clear about it- I was referring to Light.

"It's not magical light that dispels Darkness- it's magical light from a spell 3rd level or higher."

I'm pretty sure by RAW the above is true only for magical light created BY A SPELL. Magical light created by any source other than a spell also dispels Darkness - a magical item, a race or class feature, etc. Even a common magic item like the Moon Touched Sword (Xanthars) would dissipate the Darkness spell.

Right, I was thinking about spells only and forgot the rest of the cases.

Which then actually reminds me that nothing says Darkness is dispelled- it says that it dispels low-level spell-created light but not that it gets dispelled by the rest.

[Millstone85]

"It's not magical light that dispels Darkness- it's magical light from a spell 3rd level or higher."

I'm pretty sure by RAW the above is true only for magical light created BY A SPELL. Magical light created by any source other than a spell also dispels Darkness - a magical item, a race or class feature, etc. Even a common magic item like the Moon Touched Sword (Xanthars) would dissipate the Darkness spell.
Right, I was thinking about spells only and forgot the rest of the cases.

Which then actually reminds me that nothing says Darkness is dispelled- it says that it dispels low-level spell-created light but not that it gets dispelled by the rest.To be precise, magical light produced by a spell cast with a 3+ slot, or by a non-spell source, would illuminate the area of darkness, or part of it, but would not end the darkness spell itself.

Unless it is the daylight spell, which can outright dispel darkness, unless darkness is cast with a 4+ slot.

Simple.

Edit: I made a diagram several years ago.

https://i.imgur.com/sYqDTsn.png

[Nifft]

Given the old school relationship between those two spells and the Drow, who were supposed to be scary for being able to use those two spells in conjunction, my personal table ruling is that Faerie Fire totally does work inside the area of a Darkness spell.

But that's just me making Drow great again, not the spell text doing anything useful.

[Samayu]

I think they needlessly complicated the spell when they decided Darkness would actually dispell, rather than suppress.

Also, I wish they would have noted the difference between light that is being caused by magic and light being cast by magic. In other words, it makes sense for my glowing rock (light spell) to be dispelled when I walk into the area of Darkness, but not that my rock goes out when I get withing 40 feet of the Darkness (20 ft bright/20 ft dim).