OOTS #1225 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Ruck]

Happened to be inexplicably still awake, lucky me. Looks like those of us who suspected the final panel of #1224 suggested a scene transition were right.

Of course, lots to speculate on the identity of the hooded individual. Maybe this is the unlikely ally!

[Rinion]

The cloaked figure's arm looks short in relation to their height. Could it be two kobolds in a trench coat?

[Yxylu]

Link (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1225.html) for easy future navigation.

The figure at the cauldron looks tall, but the arm looks relatively short. Halfling on a stepladder? Although, looking more closely, the fingers seem to be an olive green color. I dunno.

Edit: Too slow on the arm observation.

[carborundum]

Maybe one of the IFCC?
Edit: Hmmm, cloak's the wrong colour.

[locksmith of lo]

well, this is unexpected... i come to read reactions and virtually no one has reacted yet. hmmm... no one is yet ready after superb owl sunday to make commentaires. :smallbiggrin:

[Ghosty]

The dartboard is a nice touch, as are the darts sticking in the wall, nowhere near the board. I thought the kids' drawings on the wall near it were cute. Which might explain the tone of the second member of the Invisible Duo

The 'coziest warehouse ever' part makes me think of Hobbits, which is a short skip to Halflings and Serini. Anyone translate the runes on the cauldron yet? (LOL)

No doors or windows makes me think of portals to gain entrance and exit. Which again points to whoever put the maze together in the first place.

[Peelee]

Super Longshot theory: Serini wasn't a halfling. Possibly wasn't a rogue.

ETA: Nah, that's definitely a halfling or other small character.

[Cicciograna]

Many plants. A Druid of some guise?

EDIT: To be honest I have many plants too, and I am far from a Druid, so...

[link3710]

Hmmmm... Could that be the Oracle? Short arms, yellow/orange skin... Is he on stilts?

[Ghosty]

...The figure at the cauldron looks tall, but the arm looks relatively short. Halfling on a stepladder? Although, looking more closely, the fingers seem to be an olive green color...

OMG! It's Redcloak's niece! Ahhhhhhhhh!

[Cicciograna]

Green hand, very tall but arm short. I call for some kind of fey that can fly or levitate - and turn invisible.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

My theory is that its Sereni, or perhaps someone related to her, but we shall see....


Anyone figure out what is written on the cauldron yet? If I look at the symbols, they look like "Boogers" but i think its actually runes, so it would be similar to figuring out the cypher from the symbol font he used.

[Ghosty]

Anyone have any ideas what's draped on top of the low dresser, or on top of the little piece of furniture near the dartboard? Or what the green thing is on the right side of the top drawer?

There are a ton of plants in there, as noted already. OTOH, it's the Arctic: where else are plants going to grow? If the inhabitant wants a salad, doing it this way is their only choice. Though getting sunlight to them might be tricky... 'Magic', I guess.

[dancrilis]

I don't know Lien seems to be reaching to try and make her case let alone call it a draw - I think O-Chul has her solidly beat.

[Schroeswald]

O-Chul and Lien are a great duo and one of them is definitely going to die before the end of the strip.

[deltamire]

Hmm . . . in terms of hex codes, the fingers (which are on weirdly small arms, as people have pointed out, for a body that tall) are #818C6C, which is a kind of grey-green. Not the usual goblinoid green, and while I was on board with the dragonic origins for the voices, I don't know if we've seen skin that unsaturated for dragon-related creatures so far. The only thing I can think of would maybe be that one green hag? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0175.html) Not quite as desaturated, though. Looking forward to seeing what they are!

[InvisibleBison]

OTOH, it's the Arctic: where else are plants going to grow?

I'm not sure this chamber is in the Arctic. Lien said she couldn't see any doors, which suggests that the chamber is accessed via teleportation. If so, it could be hundreds of miles away from Monster Hollow, or even on another plane of existence.

[Agi Hammerthief]

„access by teleport only“ lair, excellent idea.

[KorvinStarmast]

... no one is yet ready after superb owl sunday to make commentaires. :smallbiggrin: As owls go, it wasn't that superb unless your name was Bowles: the job he and his guys did was superb. :smallbiggrin: The only team to really solve the problem of the KC offense

The 'coziest warehouse ever' part makes me think of Hobbits, which is a short skip to Halflings and Serini. Anyone translate the runes on the cauldron yet? (LOL) For some reason, my feel was "coziest greenhouse at the North Pole" but then I realized that the walls look like cinder blocks, not glass.

Anyone have any ideas what's draped on top of the low dresser, or on top of the little piece of furniture near the dartboard? Beyond the idea of 'hydroponics' via magic, the orange thing seems to me to be a hood, and what's on top of the chest near the ladder seems to me to be squares as I zoom in. Lego, perhaps? I like the 'bean bag chair' look for that couch.

I don't know Lien seems to be reaching to try and make her case let alone call it a draw - I think O-Chul has her solidly beat. She knows better than to try and out-paladin him, doesn't she? :smallcool: Maybe not, the exuberance of youth knows no bounds. (I am drawing a little bit on the GDGU Lien story ...)

Heh: O-Chul's punchline in the last frame got a grin out of me.

[Fyraltari]

I guess they do have to pass the time somehow.

[Lord Torath]

I love the on-going Paladin-Off! Also: lots and lots of interesting detail in the room. Anyone translate the runes on the cauldron yet?

Many thanks, Rich!

[NerdyKris]

That is clearly a halfling on stilts.

[Ghosty]

Hmm . . . in terms of hex codes, the fingers (which are on weirdly small arms, as people have pointed out, for a body that tall) are #818C6C, which is a kind of grey-green. Not the usual goblinoid green, and while I was on board with the dragonic origins for the voices, I don't know if we've seen skin that unsaturated for dragon-related creatures so far. The only thing I can think of would maybe be that one green hag? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0175.html) Not quite as desaturated, though. Looking forward to seeing what they are!

Dragon-related origins might fit, if you think one of those drawings near the bean bag couch might be a child's representation of their parent.

My guess for other two drawings: 1) Watering can, tilted to the right, watering a plant. 2) Something wearing a purpleish crown. The more I look at them, they remind me of Rorschach blots.

[Fyraltari]

It would have been funny if the reason Lien couldn't see a door were because it was under the platform she and O-Chul are standing on.

[Shining Wrath]

O-Chul being funny is great because you never see it coming. That was a legit laugh out loud.
No doors implies Orange and Green can teleport / ethereal travel / similar no-door-needed ways in and out of the room.
It's good to see that the captor likes music. Humanizes them. Of course, Xykon hums, too.
The captors evidently sleep - there is a bed - and like extremely soft sofas.

EDIT:

Didn't spot the arm / height ratio problem, and given the green skin, I'm guessing a goblin, but of a not-supporting-Redcloak faction. A goblin cleric of high level who wasn't totally invested in reverse genocide would be an interesting development, and would make O-Chul and Lien getting out to carry the message to Durkon vitally important.

[DukeBG]

Anyone figure out what is written on the cauldron yet? If I look at the symbols, they look like "Boogers" but i think its actually runes, so it would be similar to figuring out the cypher from the symbol font he used.

Yes, the font is WizardSpeak
blambot.com/products/wizardspeak
The words on the cauldron are magic instant pot

[Cicciograna]

Anyone have any ideas what's draped on top of the low dresser, or on top of the little piece of furniture near the dartboard? Or what the green thing is on the right side of the top drawer?

Note, what follows does not stem from me having great eyesight, but rather from the fact that I'm a Patreon supporter, and Rich sends out high resolution version of his pages.

On the low dresser there is what resembles a green truncated cone, maybe a vase of some sort; some orange rags that could be interpreted as a cloak; and two dun (DUN DUNNNN!!) colored sacks or something like that. Also, as you notice, there's a green thingie coming out of the right side of the top drawer, and that seems to be a plant leaf. Could be a tentacle, though.

On the box under the dartboard there are some sheets of paper and a small, yellowish box; the bottom part of the box seems to be somewhat stained in grey, might be a decoration, some dirt, or just the sign of age.

Now, I'm noticing them only now: there are three drawings on the wall, which seem to be very crude and simple, like the ones a child could make. One of them seems to be just doodles, I can't discern anything specific. Another one seems to depict some sort of draconic figure, it has an ovoidal body, a tail, an elongated head and bat-like wings. The third one is VERY interesting: there's a large pink blob with some spiked thingies on top of it, and a smaller figure on the side. The small figure is very crude, just a green rectangle for the body, and a pink circle for the head, but it really gives me "dad and son" vibes. The pink blob with spiked thingies could be interpreted as a very large head next to a smaller creature? And the spiked things could be hair, or a crest?

[Hotu]

I'm seconding the two Kobalds in a trench coat theory, although that means all that pedantry about their arm size would go to waste :smallbiggrin:

also obligatory surprised reaction to my first time on the first page

[Zyzzyva]

„access by teleport only“ lair, excellent idea.

And it narrows down the possibilities for who's captured them a lot! Ok, who thinks it's Kitty and who thinks it's Kurt?

And, of course, that means the important character from one page is Cyclops, from #560 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0560.html) :biggrin:

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Also have the sneaking suspicion Trenchcoat Stirrer is two people standing totempole style.

Nice observation by O-Chul though. :smallbiggrin:

[Hiro Quester]

This fits with my expectation that we will cut away to the paladins for a few episodes, and the OOTS team will be able to make ambush preparations without us knowing what they are, preserving dramatic tension.

[Shining Wrath]

Random thought:
If the IFCC or allies thereof have our two noble paladins, then they could be in hell - a very comfy hell, as they don't deserve eternal damnation but are just being kept out of the way for a while, so the universe can be destroyed. That would explain the lack of doors.

[Personification]

I don't know Lien seems to be reaching to try and make her case let alone call it a draw - I think O-Chul has her solidly beat.

I completely agree.

On a different note, those plants look familiar, and I, like the rest of the forum, am desperately hunting out our single-paged ally. Therefore, my bid on the cloaked figure is the dryad indirectly responsible for getting Roy and Celia together.

[hroþila]

I wanted to dismiss the greenish skin by saying that might be distortion caused by saving the picture due to the hand being so small, but Lien and O-Chul are even smaller and their skin colour shows up perfectly right. And if that's a "magic instant pot", and not just some random stew, that makes Serini even less likely.

At least one of the drawings on the wall seems to be a kind of dragon.

[Cicciograna]

I wanted to dismiss the greenish skin by saying that might be distortion caused by saving the picture due to the hand being so small, but Lien and O-Chul are even smaller and their skin colour shows up perfectly right. And if that's a "magic instant pot", and not just some random stew, that makes Serini even less likely.

At least one of the drawings on the wall seems to be a kind of dragon.

OTOH a "magic instant pot" sounds like some enabling device that would allow people who can't do magic to, well, do magic. Like, you know, "instant coffee" is not really real coffee, but is "as good as". As far as we know Serini is not a spellcaster, but she is a high level rogue, and she might have a very high rank in Use Magic Device. Maybe she can't actually do magic, but the pot allows her to.

[Shining Wrath]

Oh, we've now discovered what the wisps floating by the paladins are - they are the fumes of whatever's being stirred. Soup? Potions? Laundry? Your guess is as good as mine.

[Yxylu]

And, of course, that means the important character from one page is Cyclops, from #560 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0560.html) :biggrin:

Unfortunately not. He also appears on page 7 of Start of Darkness.

[Fnordius]

Hmm, the way the upper level does seem sort of warehouse-like and the way there are many more manacles than required for our pair of proud paladins, I am going to guess this is the refill point for the dungeons. The manacles are there to hold "monsters" before they get dropped into their new lairs.

Welcome to the back stage area.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm interested to learn more about this mysterious hooded figure. Of course, it's also a great question to ask where they are, since clearly this place is set up for holding more people captive, but does not really seem like much of a jail. Then again, not having any way out is a pretty effective method for keeping people locked in.

[ianm1981]

Anyone have theories as to why there are so many sets of manacles on the wall?

it implies an intention to hold I think up to 6 medium humanoids, which is an oddly specific form of restraint given the diverse nature of creatures and the escape capabilities they might have.

[Fitzclowningham]

The cauldron-stirrer could be wearing gloves, so the skin color could be anything

Edit: the darts in the wall, away from the dartboard, indicate that whoever was playing is *not* a halfling

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[MoonCat]

Hmm . . . in terms of hex codes, the fingers (which are on weirdly small arms, as people have pointed out, for a body that tall) are #818C6C, which is a kind of grey-green. Not the usual goblinoid green, and while I was on board with the dragonic origins for the voices, I don't know if we've seen skin that unsaturated for dragon-related creatures so far. The only thing I can think of would maybe be that one green hag? (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0175.html) Not quite as desaturated, though. Looking forward to seeing what they are!

Two theories present themselves to me given the hands—one is the green voice, which has been discussed. The other is that the pot-stirrers' hands may have been stained green by whatever they're stirring. Just judging on sight, that acid color could make pale-to-medium toned skin that shade of green, couldn't it?

I'm reading the contents of the pot itself as being something fairly benign, incidentally. My first instinct, seeing the coziness of the rest of the room, was 'soup.' Albeit a weird color, but the Azurites drink blue wine. The 'instapot' reference in the runes might corroborate that interpretation.

[RichTF]

Note, what follows does not stem from me having great eyesight, but rather from the fact that I'm a Patreon supporter, and Rich sends out high resolution version of his pages.

[…] there are three drawings on the wall, which seem to be very crude and simple, like the ones a child could make. One of them seems to be just doodles, I can't discern anything specific.

Similarly based on the high-res version of the panels, those doodles remind me a lot of the Draketooth clan’s facial tattoos, both in colour and style.

But maybe that’s just a coincidence, given that any two sets of scrawly squiggly lines have a fairly good chance of looking similar to each other. :smallbiggrin:

[Kareeah_Indaga]

Anyone have theories as to why there are so many sets of manacles on the wall?

it implies an intention to hold I think up to 6 medium humanoids, which is an oddly specific form of restraint given the diverse nature of creatures and the escape capabilities they might have.

Isn’t the usual size of an adventuring party 4-6? The builder of this room is genre-savvy.

[Ron Miel]

The third one is VERY interesting: there's a large pink blob with some spiked thingies on top of it, and a smaller figure on the side. The small figure is very crude, just a green rectangle for the body, and a pink circle for the head, but it really gives me "dad and son" vibes. The pink blob with spiked thingies could be interpreted as a very large head next to a smaller creature? And the spiked things could be hair, or a crest?

I only have the low rez version, but it reminded me of this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/4d/01/234d012ad48f2d89a3d7c6873b4f37e4.jpg

[Bookshelfstud]

The one crayon drawing with the big pink blob that has spiky hair made me think of...well, a particular entity that popped up in #32. You know, a big orby guy with one eye and some eyestalks.

[WolvesbaneIII]

Given the dragon drawings, maybe its the black dragon descendant who was a spell caster

The title "chain reaction" could be a clue to the actual chain the familicide spell created. He or she was killed, and since it wasn't in a swamp, the corpse could be revived.

or this is the dragon wizards assistant. mama dragon was somewhat versed in magic herself, so this being a sorcerer or something could make sense.

there were 2 kidnappers involved, so maybe this is related to 1 of the dragon descendants.

[Kareeah_Indaga]

On the low dresser there is what resembles a green truncated cone, maybe a vase of some sort; some orange rags that could be interpreted as a cloak; and two dun (DUN DUNNNN!!) colored sacks or something like that. Also, as you notice, there's a green thingie coming out of the right side of the top drawer, and that seems to be a plant leaf. Could be a tentacle, though.

I’m just going off the low-res version, but the orange thing looks to me like a wig or possibly a hood.

[KorvinStarmast]

Random thought:
If the IFCC or allies thereof have our two noble paladins, then they could be in hell - a very comfy hell, as they don't deserve eternal damnation but are just being kept out of the way for a while, so the universe can be destroyed. That would explain the lack of doors. The plants suggest to me otherwise, but that's more of a 'feel' thing than any explicit 3.5e lore in re the evil planes.

OTOH a "magic instant pot" sounds like some enabling device that would allow people who can't do magic to, well, do magic. Like, you know, "instant coffee" is not really real coffee, but is "as good as". As far as we know Serini is not a spellcaster, but she is a high level rogue, and she might have a very high rank in Use Magic Device. Maybe she can't actually do magic, but the pot allows her to. That's what I was thinking.

... I am going to guess this is the refill point for the dungeons. The manacles are there to hold "monsters" before they get dropped into their new lairs. Hmm, {someone} planning to use the Paladins as "Monsters" defending the gate? Does that mean they try to capture more of the Order as well?
it implies an intention to hold I think up to 6 medium humanoids, which is an oddly specific form of restraint given the diverse nature of creatures and the escape capabilities they might have. Might just be a case of "that's how many sets fit on that wall" or "misery loves company" ...
Edit: the darts in the wall, away from the dartboard, indicate that whoever was playing is *not* a halfling +1. :smallcool:

Isn’t the usual size of an adventuring party 4-6? The builder of this room is genre-savvy. Self aware stick figure parody ... check. :smallsmile:

[Ironsmith]

„access by teleport only“ lair, excellent idea.

Security-wise, maybe. Logistically, it's a nightmare. No ventilation, no naturally-occurring food, and an environment that's hostile to growing your own. Magic can solve most if that, but it'd have some pretty hefty upkeep costs.

[Yanisa]

I only have the low rez version, but it reminded me of this:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/23/4d/01/234d012ad48f2d89a3d7c6873b4f37e4.jpg

High res version here. It could be something like that, the larger reddish shape is a circle with 3-4 triangles. Which could be a beast with spikes. The smaller green and red seems to be a O atop a squarish U. Which could be a basic humanoid body + head shape.

Also the right painting is clearly a dragonlike creature. Batwing, lizardtail, round body and round head with a squiggly line for a jaw (sharp teeth).

The middle painting is two symbols. They look like a 2 with a horn and S-shaped tail, and 4 with a 3-shaped tail.

P.S. Explaining pictures in tekst is hard.

[Tvtyrant]

Happened to be inexplicably still awake, lucky me. Looks like those of us who suspected the final panel of #1224 suggested a scene transition were right.

Of course, lots to speculate on the identity of the hooded individual. Maybe this is the unlikely ally!

I'm guessing it is the epic level halfling. That costume has too much costume going on, like a facsimile of a mysterious person.

[Peelee]

P.S. Explaining pictures in tekst is hard.

Well, you didn't use a thousand words. There's your problem.

[InvisibleBison]

Edit: the darts in the wall, away from the dartboard, indicate that whoever was playing is *not* a halfling

Why do they indicate that?

[Cicciograna]

Why do they indicate that?

Because halflings have very good aim with thrown stuff.

[HandofShadows]

Why do they indicate that?

The board and darts are too high off the floor. If a halfling was using it, it would be closer to the floor.

There are a lot of plants about and in the "close shot" there seems to be a small tree, Whoever this is they came form a place where there was a lot of green and they have all the plants about as a way to make themselves feel a little more at home.

[Peelee]

The board and darts are too high off the floor. If a halfling was using it, it would be closer to the floor.

There are a lot of plants about and in the "close shot" there seems to be a small tree, Whoever this is they came form a place where there was a lot of green and they have all the plants about as a way to make themselves feel a little more at home.

I don't think either of those are necessarily supported. The aim thing makes much more sense.

[Ephemera]

OTOH a "magic instant pot" sounds like some enabling device that would allow people who can't do magic to, well, do magic. Like, you know, "instant coffee" is not really real coffee, but is "as good as". As far as we know Serini is not a spellcaster, but she is a high level rogue, and she might have a very high rank in Use Magic Device. Maybe she can't actually do magic, but the pot allows her to.

I don't know if I agree with this. An instant pot isn't like an instant coffee maker, it's a vaguely faddish cooking appliance that is a slow-cooker/stockpot with the ability to brown things, but they are more likely to be owned by people who like to cook; it's not like they're for reheating frozen dinners or otherwise not cooking.

So I think this is more of a foodie in-joke than an indication one way or another about whether the pot-stirrer can brew potions or use magic devices.

[Robots]

Yay, new update!!

Captain Captor has a very short arm. (Yeah, that's my stupid nickname for the mystery guy.)

What is the secret behind the disguise??? Tune in next, like, update maybe! Hopefully we can absorb more information.

Anyway I need to get back to my work LOL

[Shining Wrath]

I notice that neither Lien nor O-Chul have remarked upon the odor wafting from the stirred pot. Now they are stoic paladins - well, Lien is stoic. O-Chul is whatever you get to if you travel right through stoic-land and keep on going. But anyway, if that odor was either good or bad, I'd half expect a remark - "smells like split pea soup" or "whatever they are stirring is vile".

[Cicciograna]

I don't know if I agree with this. An instant pot isn't like an instant coffee maker, it's a vaguely faddish cooking appliance that is a slow-cooker/stockpot with the ability to brown things, but they are more likely to be owned by people who like to cook; it's not like they're for reheating frozen dinners or otherwise not cooking.

So I think this is more of a foodie in-joke than an indication one way or another about whether the pot-stirrer can brew potions or use magic devices.

Aren't slow cookers advertised as low-effort, high-result appliances? Like, "you just put all the ingredients in it, and let it do its thing"? I'm not being sarcastic here, you make a convincing point, except for the fact that I actually always thought that slow cookers were not considered too fancy, not as lowly as the microwave, but not particularly high-tier-ish.

[Shining Wrath]

On the lack of doors - Lien is evidently not a CS Lewis fan, or can't see the wardrobes below her. Or, for that matter, a Scooby-Do fan. Wardrobes can easily conceal doors.

[Yxylu]

It seems to me that the figure is moving around the pot. In both panels, 3 and 4, it is to the right of the pot from the camera’s frame of reference. However, the things in the background are different. In panel 4, we see a desk and a couple of trees in a planter. In panel 3, the apparently same view shows a bureau and beanbag couch.

[Tvtyrant]

Aren't slow cookers advertised as low-effort, high-result appliances? Like, "you just put all the ingredients in it, and let it do its thing"? I'm not being sarcastic here, you make a convincing point, except for the fact that I actually always thought that slow cookers were not considered too fancy, not as lowly as the microwave, but not particularly high-tier-ish.

Yeah Instant Pots are designed to be extremely easy to use. It's a slow cooker with a microwave screen basically, it has auto-sets for most foods and depressures itself automatically. I use it for food prep because it takes about 10 minutes to set up tops and then the food is done in 3 hours and ready to refreeze.

[t209]

Well any speculations?
I can see the mixer's hand being green handed.
Hag?

[Ghosty]

I'd thought the runes were a reference/joke to the present "instant pot" culinary phenomenon. The darts made me think that it's how a small child or teenager would play darts---throw them as hard as they could, even if that was in the wall, while screwing around. And leave them in the wall, vs. placing them next to the board or the like.

I'd think the second member of the Duo was Serini's kid, (which naturally would make the other one Serini) resulting from a liaison with Draketooth, but Familicide would have killed such a child, right?

[Wildstag]

OOooooo self-burn time! And it seems that in his captivity O-Chul developed a resistance to that kind of burn as well!

[ByzantiumBhuka]

Whoa. This is a lot of new landscape; I was expecting a dungeon, not a nice home. Quite worthy of a perfect-square comic.

Those three drawings to give the impression that there are three creatures in whatever "faction" controls this place. Plus possibly a kid.

And we have 2 portals to Narnia. Who knows where they lead? And what might that note be?

[Cicciograna]

Also, possibily only one person entity lives here. There is only one bed in view. Of course, nothing prevents other beds being elsewhere in the room, but applying the Rule of Perception (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfPerception), unless they are not shown we must assume they don't exist.

EDIT: or maybe whatever other entity lives here, they don't sleep / need a bed.

[Turin_19]

Rich, you are a genius.

Thanks again for another brilliant piece of work!

[Soup du Jour]

All this perception going on about the contents of the room, and no one's yet brought up how low the wardrobe handles are to the ground? For shame!

[Kareeah_Indaga]

There are a lot of plants about and in the "close shot" there seems to be a small tree, Whoever this is they came form a place where there was a lot of green and they have all the plants about as a way to make themselves feel a little more at home.

My thoughts were ‘alchemical ingredients’ but I might be playing too much Elder Scrolls.

[hewhosaysfish]

Given how the runes on the cauldron run right the way around the curve, I'm thinking that

The letters "-ion" may be on the other side of side of the "horizon".
So it's "magic instant potion" or "magic instant potions" or such.

So Orange-Voice and Green-Voice, may have been using potions of Fly and (Greater) Invisibility.


Alternatively, this alchemist may be making new knock-out poison to replace the doses that were used in capturing the paladins.

[137beth]

Well duh, you're not the protagonists! Of course you're getting captured :smallsmile:

[InvisibleBison]

Because halflings have very good aim with thrown stuff.

A halfling has slightly better aim than a human with otherwise identical stats, true. But I think it's going too far to say that the dart-thrower cannot be a halfling. Anyone can roll a natural 1, after all.

[Windscion]

Their captor is literate, at any rate -- book w/ mark next to bed. Not that this looks like a barbarian's hangout. Well, it could still be a picture book.

The beanbag chair/sofa is interesting.
The bed struck me a short at first, but now I dunno.

[ReaderAt2046]

Ok, so a lot to unpack in this scene. First, I really liked the "paladin-off" continuing between O-Chul and Lien. Those two are the best sort of paladin, the kind that is Lawful and Good without being Stupid or Stuck-Up.

Given that we can see the hand of our mystery pot-stirrer, that implies that Green and Orange Voice are corporeal creatures who were temporarily invisible for the ambush, not incorporeal or permanently invisible creatures of some sort.

Also note that the walls seem to be made of carved and joined stones rather than raw stone, so this might be an above-ground facility. Or if it is underground, at the very least it's probably buried under dirt, not carved into the rock around Kraagor's Gate. I feel like Lien would have noted a skylight if there was one, so probably magic full-spectrum illumination.

I suspect all the plants are meant as a natural life-support system to address the issues Ironsmith pointed out, the same way as with Lirian's prison. Makes me wonder if Hoodie here was one of Lirian's apprentices, who survived the destruction of her Gate and moved to Kraagor's gate to provide extra security. This does feel primarily like a home rather than a prison or a warehouse... so many mysteries to unpack!

[Jordok]

Also, possibily only one person entity lives here. There is only one bed in view. Of course, nothing prevents other beds being elsewhere in the room, but applying the Rule of Perception, unless they are not shown we must assume they don't exist.

EDIT: or maybe whatever other entity lives here, they don't sleep / need a bed.

I was thinking one humanoid and the other one sleeps on sofa - kind of doggish figure maybe? Animal companion? But childish drawings don't seem to fit.


Regarding Greenhand: may it be that ze is wearing green gloves? Do we have any examples how gloves-wearing looks like in new graphics? (since fingers gained width I mean)?

Excited about new comic, lots of speculation material. Thanks Giant!


EDIT: Also thinking about the body size. If Greenhand is short, why is ze wearing such a long coat? If it's a short humanoid, I would expect to see figure standing on a stool to stir the pot. Not wearing stilts and a long cloak to cover them. Especially not when ze is at home.

[danielxcutter]

I'm going with the "these guys got sent by Tiamat" theory. She's one of the few gods who does plan on working with TDO, the robed guy could be a kobold on a stool, and it fits a lot of other things so yeah.

[The Pilgrim]

No offense, Lien, but O-Chul is out-palading you again.

Taking into account you are faring against O-Chul, though, you are doing quite well.

[Ephemera]

Yeah Instant Pots are designed to be extremely easy to use. It's a slow cooker with a microwave screen basically, it has auto-sets for most foods and depressures itself automatically. I use it for food prep because it takes about 10 minutes to set up tops and then the food is done in 3 hours and ready to refreeze.

They are...but also it's a $100 combo pressure cooker/saute pan/slow cooker/rice cooker/yogurt maker, whereas you can get a basic slow cooker for like $30. All the people I personally know who have them are pretty good cooks who like the ease but also the flexibility as opposed to people who otherwise don't cook (although maybe that's just me). All I'm saying is that it's more like a programmable coffee machine with a timer than, say, a nespresso pod machine.

Therefore (or maybe just "in any case") this seems to me to be more likely to be a joke based on the faddishness of the instant pot (like the TeeVo way back when) than it is an indication of whether the pot requires a magic user to use.

[The Pilgrim]

Now for my longshot theory on who the cloaked figure is:

Leeky Windstaff standing over Pompey's shoulders :P

[Emanick]

I’m guessing Captain Captor works for the IFCC, given how much they seem to like stirring the pot.

[Kastor]

O-chul seems really out of it as he wakes up...
I know he was poisoned, but you'd think the guy was out for a year or something!
/joke

[B. Pseudonym]

I second the motion to nickname this guy "Captain Captor" for the time being.

Anyway, I think there's some holes in the kobold theory. All the ones we've seen so far (the Oracle, Belkar's various evil opposites) have had orange skin and white speech bubbles. This guy appears to be green, and we don't know what color their speech bubbles are. (Personally, I'm assuming they're the green ones from the end of book six, but y'know, assumptions, you and me, etc. etc.)

Wait... green, lives near the north pole, very good at stealing...

O'Chul and Lien have been kidnapped by the Grinch.

[bunsen_h]

I'm not buying any theory involving someone really short standing on something elevating, and wearing a really long coat/cloak. That would be extremely cumbersome, and none of the justifications really hold water. Belkar's history on stilts notwithstanding.


Anyone have theories as to why there are so many sets of manacles on the wall?

it implies an intention to hold I think up to 6 medium humanoids, which is an oddly specific form of restraint given the diverse nature of creatures and the escape capabilities they might have.

They're set up to handle humanoids, which are the most likely general form of intelligent life they'd need to restrain. There may well be other forms of restraint, not in view, for other types. And I'm sure they can improvise.


I was thinking one humanoid and the other one sleeps on sofa - kind of doggish figure maybe? Animal companion? But childish drawings don't seem to fit.

So far, we've seen only about half of the room, at most.


They are...but also it's a $100 combo pressure cooker/saute pan/slow cooker/rice cooker/yogurt maker, whereas you can get a basic slow cooker for like $30. All the people I personally know who have them are pretty good cooks who like the ease but also the flexibility as opposed to people who otherwise don't cook (although maybe that's just me). All I'm saying is that it's more like a programmable coffee machine with a timer than, say, a nespresso pod machine.

Therefore (or maybe just "in any case") this seems to me to be more likely to be a joke based on the faddishness of the instant pot (like the TeeVo way back when) than it is an indication of whether the pot requires a magic user to use.

The "programmable pressure cooker" is what persuaded me to buy one, and I find it very useful. I'm currently using it about once every three days, and it scores over my old "regular" stove-top pressure cooker in that I can set it up and let it run without having to pay attention to it. The old one requires regular checking to make sure that the burner setting is right to have the thing hissing gently but not too much. (And yes, I consider myself a pretty good cook.)

[Fincher]

A halfling or a kobold might stand on a footstool or another small being to reach the top of the cauldron, but I don't know why they'd be wearing a cloak that's too big for them. Also, it looks to me not that the arm is small, but that the person in the cloak is unusually tall. I had an idea that it might be a lamia, as in a woman with the lower body of a snake, but I guess those are called lamia nobles in D&D and they don't appear to be in 3.5.

[hamishspence]

I had an idea that it might be a lamia, as in a woman with the lower body of a snake, but I guess those are called lamia nobles in D&D and they don't appear to be in 3.5.

Expedition to the Demonweb Pits has 3.5 rules for lamia nobles.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'd think the second member of the Duo was Serini's kid, (which naturally would make the other one Serini) resulting from a liaison with Draketooth, but Familicide would have killed such a child, right?

Familicide would kill them both. The kid for being descended from the dragon, and Serini for being related to the kid.

[Coyote0715]

It might be Serini, due to the fact that there appears to be a journal next to the bed on the stool. Serini does seem to like keeping journals....

[bunsen_h]

For some reason, my feel was "coziest greenhouse at the North Pole" but then I realized that the walls look like cinder blocks, not glass.

Whatever the wall material is, the darts that missed the dartboard are sticking into it (or to it).

[KorvinStarmast]

Well duh, you're not the protagonists! Of course you're getting captured :smallsmile: Elan got captured by bandits (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0152.html)/thieves in NCrtPB, and again by Orcs (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0556.html) in DStP.

No offense, Lien, but O-Chul is out-palading you again. Concur.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I can't find the page. How does this cloak compare to the ones worn by the Holey Brotherhood?

[KorvinStarmast]

I can't find the page. How does this cloak compare to the ones worn by the Holey Brotherhood? Not a good fit. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)

I have an idea: the cloak is sized for an adult, but the current creature who is stirring the pot is the child of the adult who is standing on a stool. The child is stirring the concoction in the pot and chose to 'dress up like mom' or 'dress up like dad' and emulate their pot stirring behavior. (Yes, pun intended).

Also, just above the handles on the nearer of the two wardrobes/closets, is a yellow square.

Is that a 'to do' list, a shopping list, or, a window/hatch/opening in that wardrobe? I don't see a matching one on the other wardrobe.

To whomever posited 'that thing on the table near the bed is a diary' - nice one. :smallsmile:

[Breccia]

"I guess we're finally doing this. Fun while it lasted, right?"
"What was, boss?"
"Existing."

Assuming the speakers are related to the pot stirrer (not ready to rule out two halflings/kobolds/one of each in a trenchcoat...yet) I'm really interested in hearing their motives right now.

Those lines above, from one year ago (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html)? Either they were some kind of strange summon/construct that stops existing after their task is complete, or they're talking about the Snarl winning, or they're talking about what will happen if they get caught helping.

1) Self-aware constructs that are invisible and capable of speech aren't super common. I definitely can't think of one that comes with poison darts.

2) We're back to the IFCC taKing V. Removing Lien and O-Chul could lead to a struggle that, in turn, could destroy the final gate, ending the universe. Again. But in that case, why not kill them? The voice(s) seems clearly up to that option, but it wasn't their first. It also feels risky. As demonstated, the OotS could, for example, just open negotiations with Redcloak. Also, if Redcloak wins, the Dark One doesn't want the gate broken. I have no idea if the Snarl would permakill the Dark One when it escapes, and I don't think the Dark One knows either.

3) The IFCC almost certainly has the power to wipe out the very soul of a minion of theirs that betrays them. Possibly one of them is going behind the backs of the other two, by which I mean, sending minions to do their dirty work. They (or whoever) could be ready to explain everything to the captive paladins. But...why poison them and drag them away to do that? V had a contract to that prevented the IFCC from outright murder, but the paladins have no such arrangement. And what would the IFCC, or again anyone else really, tell the paladins, true or false, that would work in their favor?

None of these really feel like solid options. I'm missing something, and can't wait to see what it is.

Oh, and I suppose It could be what's left of the Eastern Pantheon, their color is green after all

[Jasdoif]

Whatever the wall material is, the darts that missed the dartboard are sticking into it (or to it).Well, they're probably not adamantine darts, +3000gp each would get expensive in a hurry.

[The MunchKING]

The cauldron-stirrer could be wearing gloves, so the skin color could be anything

Edit: the darts in the wall, away from the dartboard, indicate that whoever was playing is *not* a halfling

Who ever was playing ALSO isn't the one who captured the Paladins, since they were dropped with accurate shots.

[Ron Miel]

The middle painting is two symbols. They look like a 2 with a horn and S-shaped tail, and 4 with a 3-shaped tail.

Maybe it's the numbers 1 2 3 4 5 ?

[P. G. Macer]

I’m a bit surprised that only two people (as far as I saw) speculated that the cloaked figure could be wearing gloves, since I think that’s rather probable given that the shade of olive used is a rather glove-y color.

I also think that judging by the contours of the cloak, a halfling on stilts is likely, especially since even if it’s somewhat predictable, the comedic value of the reveal would still have some impact, though it would likely be overshadowed by the dramatic value of the reveal if said halfling happens to be Ms. Toormuck. As for why the figure is wearing stilts, that’s rather simple: they can’t reach the top of the cauldron without them, and a footstool is far less mobile.

[Gift Jeraff]

Could be the Holey Brotherhood with a redesigned robe.

"I guess we're finally doing this. Fun while it lasted, right?"
"What was, boss?"
"Existing."

Assuming the speakers are related to the pot stirrer (not ready to rule out two halflings/kobolds/one of each in a trenchcoat...yet) I'm really interested in hearing their motives right now.

Those lines above, from one year ago (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html)? Either they were some kind of strange summon/construct that stops existing after their task is complete, or they're talking about the Snarl winning, or they're talking about what will happen if they get caught helping.

1) Self-aware constructs that are invisible and capable of speech aren't super common. I definitely can't think of one that comes with poison darts.

2) We're back to the IFCC taKing V. Removing Lien and O-Chul could lead to a struggle that, in turn, could destroy the final gate, ending the universe. Again. But in that case, why not kill them? The voice(s) seems clearly up to that option, but it wasn't their first. It also feels risky. As demonstated, the OotS could, for example, just open negotiations with Redcloak. Also, if Redcloak wins, the Dark One doesn't want the gate broken. I have no idea if the Snarl would permakill the Dark One when it escapes, and I don't think the Dark One knows either.

3) The IFCC almost certainly has the power to wipe out the very soul of a minion of theirs that betrays them. Possibly one of them is going behind the backs of the other two, by which I mean, sending minions to do their dirty work. They (or whoever) could be ready to explain everything to the captive paladins. But...why poison them and drag them away to do that? V had a contract to that prevented the IFCC from outright murder, but the paladins have no such arrangement. And what would the IFCC, or again anyone else really, tell the paladins, true or false, that would work in their favor?

None of these really feel like solid options. I'm missing something, and can't wait to see what it is.

Oh, and I suppose It could be what's left of the Eastern Pantheon, their color is green after all

Maybe they're aware that the story is reaching its conclusion and every character will cease to exist once it ends.

[Breccia]

Maybe they're aware that the story is reaching its conclusion and every character will cease to exist once it ends.

So...a bard, then?

[DukeBG]

The bed is "human sized" and the book on the nightstand implies the bed is actually used. However, on the other hand – the wardrobe handles are located quite low, more suiting for a smaller humanoid.

[bunsen_h]

I’m a bit surprised that only two people (as far as I saw) speculated that the cloaked figure could be wearing gloves, since I think that’s rather probable given that the shade of olive used is a rather glove-y color.

I also think that judging by the contours of the cloak, a halfling on stilts is likely, especially since even if it’s somewhat predictable, the comedic value of the reveal would still have some impact, though it would likely be overshadowed by the dramatic value of the reveal if said halfling happens to be Ms. Toormuck. As for why the figure is wearing stilts, that’s rather simple: they can’t reach the top of the cauldron without them, and a footstool is far less mobile.

I agree about the gloves. I'd want to be wearing gloves if I was stirring a large pot full of liquid that was glooping and bubbling like that.

The background in panel 4 isn't the same as that in panel 3, though the relative positions of the captor and the pot are very similar. This suggests that the captor is circling the pot as they stir it, as borne out by the cloak/coat appearing to drag on the floor.

But wearing a too-long cloak/coat is bad enough when one is on foot. Wearing it while wearing stilts would be very awkward. Doing it while walking would be even worse. Doing it while walking around a boiling cauldron... no thanks.

EDIT: But doing it while levitating wouldn't be so bad.

[Emanick]

Well, they're probably not adamantine darts, +3000gp each would get expensive in a hurry.

They can probably be reused indefinitely in a game of darts, though. I know that’s not RAW, but it makes sense that throwing them at a dart board would produce much less wear-and-tear than combat would.

[Ironsmith]

Who ever was playing ALSO isn't the one who captured the Paladins, since they were dropped with accurate shots.

Not to mention being strong enough to carry a pair of unconscious Paladins in plate mail. Between that, the fact that one of them addressed the other as "boss", and that cauldron guy doesn't match up physically with what you'd expect, my guess is "larger organization, and the Paladins were found by a scouting party/patrol/whatever".

[Jasdoif]

They can probably be reused indefinitely in a game of darts, though. I know that’s not RAW, but it makes sense that throwing them at a dart board would produce much less wear-and-tear than combat would.It is RAW, actually; darts are thrown weapons, not ammunition, so they don't break in normal use. Not being ammunition is also why it's +3000gp each instead of +60gp each.

[Yanisa]

Maybe it's the numbers 1 2 3 4 5 ?

Possible, especially if you see it a kids drawing. The spacing is a bit weird, like the 1 being on atop of the 2. Or the 3 being super close against the 4. Or the 5 just hanging in the middle half a line down. Also the the 3 and 5 miss a part of their upper line, the 2 is too angular and the 5 is too round to be called "proper" Arabic numerals. A child doodling/learning numbers can easily explains all these things.

As for the order, it's 1 2 5 4 3, with the 1 being a line higher because it's on the 2. And the 5 being half a line lower. Maybe relevant, maybe we are literally speculating over a child's scribble. :smalltongue:

[ByzantiumBhuka]

Maybe relevant, maybe we are literally speculating over a child's scribble. :smalltongue:

Are the scribbles connected to the Order of the Scribble? Does the order of the scribbles mean anything? Could the first one be a Scribbler and the other two just scribbles?

[Emanick]

It is RAW, actually; darts are thrown weapons, not ammunition, so they don't break in normal use. Not being ammunition is also why it's +3000gp each instead of +60gp each.

Oh, neat! Whoops, I should have double-checked before posting. :smallredface:

[Tvtyrant]

Also the crayon drawings are clearly of Charizard, Venusaur and Blastoise so we know it's a pokemon trainer. Seeing as how the dungeons are full of monsters clearly it is Serini.

[Cicciograna]

Also the crayon drawings are clearly of Charizard, Venusaur and Blastoise so we know it's a pokemon trainer. Seeing as how the dungeons are full of monsters clearly it is Serini.

So we know that the entity is some kind of 10yrs old child of Schroedinger gender (collapses into a specific one only after observation), and that he bravely travels the world capturing wild creatures and pitting them in battle against other trainers. I would say that O'Chul makes an excellent specimen of Steel/Fighting type, while Lien, who is probably hard but not as hard as O'Chul, is Rock/Fighting.

[Jasdoif]

Oh, neat! Whoops, I should have double-checked before posting. :smallredface:I blame shuriken and their "thrown except ammunition except mid-throw" weirdness.

[Yanisa]

So we know that the entity is some kind of 10yrs child of Schroedinger gender (collapses into a specific one only after observation), and that he bravley travels the world capturing wild creatures and pitting them in battle against other trainers. I would say that O'Chul makes an excellent specimen of Steel/Fighting type, while Lien, who is probably hard but not as hard as O'Chul, is Rock/Fighting.

Lien is clearly a Water type, maybe Water/Fighting. (For the record: She summons a shark, breathes underwater and lives near and on boats.)

[Cicciograna]

Lien is clearly a Water type, maybe Water/Fighting. (For the record: She summons a shark, breathes underwater and lives near and on boats.)

You're absolutely right!

[Jordok]

I have an idea: the cloak is sized for an adult, but the current creature who is stirring the pot is the child of the adult who is standing on a stool. The child is stirring the concoction in the pot and chose to 'dress up like mom' or 'dress up like dad' and emulate their pot stirring behavior. (Yes, pun intended).


Loving this idea. That would explain the drawings as well. And add a comical twist.

But thinking now the child hypothesis would give at least three characters in the new group - the boss, the minion and the child? Or is the child also the boss? Do all three live together in this cozy warehouse?

[Peelee]

I'm going with the "these guys got sent by Tiamat" theory.

I'll take that bet.

[Jordok]

I agree about the gloves. I'd want to be wearing gloves if I was stirring a large pot full of liquid that was glooping and bubbling like that.

But wearing a too-long cloak/coat is bad enough when one is on foot. Wearing it while wearing stilts would be very awkward. Doing it while walking would be even worse. Doing it while walking around a boiling cauldron... no thanks.

EDIT: But doing it while levitating wouldn't be so bad.

Hmm I would say the presence of the ladder makes it unlikely that here lives someone who's used to casually flying around the place. But maybe more than one person lives here.

[TRH]

It would be really weird for Tiamat to become a major player now, coming off of an arc with a whole bunch of gods, and the arc before that being one where we were on the Western Continent, where she's widely worshipped. And the arc before that being the one with evil dragons.

[Jordok]

Not to mention being strong enough to carry a pair of unconscious Paladins in plate mail. Between that, the fact that one of them addressed the other as "boss", and that cauldron guy doesn't match up physically with what you'd expect, my guess is "larger organization, and the Paladins were found by a scouting party/patrol/whatever".

I would say during the capture the greenish voice had pretty good trivia about how the poison works, the antidote etc. So it might be the alchemist of the bunch and the Captain Captor.

I also had a feeling that the confinement of the place and cozy atmosphere with plants, drawings, doesn't fit the organization. More like a family.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, this is where they live. Makes sense they'd also make it comfortable.

[Peelee]

I’m guessing Captain Captor works for the IFCC, given how much they seem to like stirring the pot.
I'll also take that bet.

(And yes, I consider myself a pretty good cook.)

I have yet to meet a chemistry professor that didn't.

Regardless of whether you teach with a doctorate or not, I'm assuming you are a "professor" in the sense of "can speak with some authority on chemistry and also has a Bunsen Muppet avatar".

[Tvtyrant]

Lien is clearly a Water type, maybe Water/Fighting. (For the record: She summons a shark, breathes underwater and lives near and on boats.)

If Paladins are Pokemon does that make Team Evil actually Team Rocket? They did get blasted off at each gate.

[Braininthejar2]

O-Chul reminds me of Michael Carpenter - which probably means he's a paladin done right.

[ebarde]

Definetly think this is the supply room for the dungeon. Serini seems to be very keen on the whole rooms without doors thing, no idea about much else though. Definetly think the person brewing the thing is a small sized creature on top of something, the 2 closets with the very low handles makes me think there's at least 2 small sized creatures living here.

[B. Pseudonym]

If Paladins are Pokemon does that make Team Evil actually Team Rocket? They did get blasted off at each gate.

I think the Linear Guild is closer to being Team Rocket, in that they're largely comedic, ineffectual villains whose core membership contained a man and a woman who lead, and a comic relief guy with fangs who followed. They also both had kind of a rotating cast of bonus henchmen who varied wildly in threat level.

Team Evil would be... is there an overarching threat in the Pokemon anime? It's been a minute since I actually watched it.

[LadyEowyn]

Count me as a vote against this being the IFCC. A beanbag chair, crayon drawings on the wall, houseplants, and a mundane dartboard don’t feel very fiendish.

If it’s a halfling, it’s a non-stereotypical one, because some of those darts are far from the dartboard, meaning poor skill with thrown objects.

[Cicciograna]

If it’s a halfling, it’s a non-stereotypical one, because some of those darts are far from the dartboard, meaning poor skill with thrown objects.

Even though there's a single bed, I am in the camp of multiple creatures living there, with at least one of them being Small size. Possibly one of them is a child. Maybe one of them is a halfling, good at throwing darts (after all some of the darts ARE on the board) and the other is not. If Serini is involved, she is the good thrower, being a halfling and a high level rogue.

I'm against the IFCC hypothesis too.

[Jordok]

Thinking about this:


What, you still want a hint of something specific yet to come? Something you're not expecting? OK, how about this: Someone who has appeared in exactly one (1) page of the story so far (including all the prequel stories) will become an important ally in the first half of the next book. Good luck figuring that one out

maybe the idea about Holey Brotherhood is not that far off. They did appear only on one panel so far.

[Jay R]

All this perception going on about the contents of the room, and no one's yet brought up how low the wardrobe handles are to the ground? For shame!

Excellent observation. Thank you.


Yes, the font is WizardSpeak
blambot.com/products/wizardspeak
The words on the cauldron are magic instant pot

But the last word doesn't necessarily end. It might keep going around the cauldron. It could be "potion" or "potion maker" or some such. Rich might have stopped it where it was just for an "instant pot" joke.

[Fyraltari]

Just want to point out that the missed darts aren't necessarily evidence of poor aim. They could be playing the game while making it harder, like you have to spin before throwing, take a drink every time you make a shot, play with your back turned/while a blindfold, etc.

[wedansti]

Given this is the season of wrapping up story lines... Leeky Windstaff.... The clothing strewn on the table, the plants growing all over the room.... Totally a short druid...

[jpnuar1]

I didn't see this addressed yet in the thread, but does anyone have a guess or explanation as to why the background behind the cloaked figure seems to change between panels 3 and 4? The cloak/hand seem to be in the exact same position between panels, so I think it's a reasonable assumption that the viewing angle didn't change much. But in panel 3 there's a nightstand/beanbag chair behind them, and in panel 4 it's changed to a writing desk and a pot with 2 trees.

[B. Pseudonym]

All this perception going on about the contents of the room, and no one's yet brought up how low the wardrobe handles are to the ground? For shame!

Using an advanced technique called "comparing the size of my cursor to O-Chul in the wide shot and then comparing that to other objects in the scene," I have determined that the wardrobe handles are about half to 2/3rds of an O-Chul off the ground, and the wardrobes are just shy of two O-Chuls tall.

The handles being between waist and shoulder height on an average human seems fairly normal to me. The wardrobes themselves, however, are really tall, at about eleven feet depending on how tall O-Chul is.

[placeholdername]

https://i.postimg.cc/hjZh41Jm/ootsdickbutt.png

[Fyraltari]

I didn't see this addressed yet in the thread, but does anyone have a guess or explanation as to why the background behind the cloaked figure seems to change between panels 3 and 4? The cloak/hand seem to be in the exact same position between panels, so I think it's a reasonable assumption that the viewing angle didn't change much. But in panel 3 there's a nightstand/beanbag chair behind them, and in panel 4 it's changed to a writing desk and a pot with 2 trees.

I thinks someone upthread suggested Captain Captor is circling the pot as they stir it.

[JNinja]

I didn't see this addressed yet in the thread, but does anyone have a guess or explanation as to why the background behind the cloaked figure seems to change between panels 3 and 4? The cloak/hand seem to be in the exact same position between panels, so I think it's a reasonable assumption that the viewing angle didn't change much. But in panel 3 there's a nightstand/beanbag chair behind them, and in panel 4 it's changed to a writing desk and a pot with 2 trees.

I think it switches to Lien's POV for that shot. O-Chul just asked her about the pot-stirring captor and the voice-over for the panel is Lien giving her observations about the cloaked figure, so it's reasonable to switch to her POV for that panel. This means that the new background is showing what would be on the bottom left of the wide shot.

Of course, this does mean that the figure would have to be moving around the cauldron, as discussed earlier, since otherwise the figure should be in front of and/or slightly to the left of the cauldron from Lien's POV. Or possibly it's just a drawing error / scheme to keep us from seeing the figure's face.

Edit: This doesn't explain why the hand angle is so similar, but I think it's more reasonable that the Giant chose to draw both panels the same way (for convenience/ to keep us from seeing the figure's face) than that the background switched so drastically for some other reason.

[gatemansgc]

O-Chul and Lien are a great duo and one of them is definitely going to die before the end of the strip.

aw no, i hope not...

[Shining Wrath]

Well, they're probably not adamantine darts, +3000gp each would get expensive in a hurry.

If you can throw hard enough, anything can penetrate anything else. For example, a tornado can drive a drinking straw into a 2x4. Fun trivia fact: if the speed of impact is faster than the speed of sound in the impacted material, the material disintegrates rather than deforming. This is normally only a factor at orbital velocities.

So, it's not adamantine darts; it's foam rubber tipped safety darts being thrown by a relative of MitD. MitD can teleport, after all, or at least teleport other beings.

That's my hypothesis, and I'm sticking to it for at least as long as it takes me to finish typing this.

Other observation: many of those plants are inconveniently high for a hobbit / kobold to water and tend. Yes, I see the ladder; it's still inconvenient. And the bed is human sized.

I'm going with the possibility of a Mutt & Jeff duo, one tall, one short.

About the child drawings: I am disheartened to think that someone with a child is willing to aid in the end of existence, in whatever form that end takes. I presume Orange and Green know of the other planes, and know that death is not the end of existence, so cooperating in the destruction of everything including those outer planes is pretty self-centered. Definitely not good parenting.

[bunsen_h]

I have yet to meet a chemistry professor that didn't.

Regardless of whether you teach with a doctorate or not, I'm assuming you are a "professor" in the sense of "can speak with some authority on chemistry and also has a Bunsen Muppet avatar".

Ph.D. in chemistry, yes.

I know only one chemistry Ph.D. who wasn't a competent cook, and she was a horror in the lab too. (Theoretical chemists don't necessarily have lab-type skills, of course, but she wasn't one of those.) It's pretty much the same skill set: mixing things in the right way, thinking through the effects of time and temperature, and so on.


O-Chul and Lien are a great duo and one of them is definitely going to die before the end of the strip.


aw no, i hope not...

I have a feeling that O-Chul and Monster-san will move on together... whatever that means.

[WanderingMist]

Why do they indicate that?

As per Belkar's backstory that he stated was solely for XP purposes, the games halflings play are "throw the rock, throw the stick, and throw the rock and then the stick shortly thereafter".

[facw]

One thing I find interesting is that the beings that captured our paladins were apparently concerned about not being seen, but they've brought O-Chul and Lien to a place where they are out in the open, with a great view of their current captor.

[Dire_Flumph]

One thing I find interesting is that the beings that captured our paladins were apparently concerned about not being seen, but they've brought O-Chul and Lien to a place where they are out in the open, with a great view of their current captor.

Or fellow prisoner.

[MinimanMidget]

My weird guess is that the Duo are the guys who resurrected the Oracle.

[Emmit Svenson]

Makes sense to have a lot of plants in a room with no doors or windows, if you or your captives prefer breathing oxygen to carbon dioxide.

[Ironsmith]

One thing I find interesting is that the beings that captured our paladins were apparently concerned about not being seen, but they've brought O-Chul and Lien to a place where they are out in the open, with a great view of their current captor.

I mean, not being seen gave them a pretty big tactical advantage in their ambush. They don't really need it while on their home turf with two people who could only have Escape Artist cross-class.

[Riftwolf]

When I saw the tall-yet-stubby-armed figure, the first thing that jumped into my head was Belkar on his stilts in Azure City. But a second thought was maybe its a serpentine body, and its only raising itself that high because of the cauldron?

Other details I'm not sure have been picked up on upthread:
That bean bag sofa looks more like a big dog-bed to me. Also one of the pictures looks like a pink Totoro.
The high wardrobe look like apothecary bottle racks. Combined with all the plants, effective poisoning, and cauldron, pretty sure the captor is alchemically inclined.

[BarnZarn]

I think our original assumptions about the one who shot the darts are correct.
The hooded figure is probably Serini (appears to be a halfling on a stool).
If you look closely at the dartboard, you'll see there are a bunch of darts that are pretty accurate, and then 3 darts that are way off, buried into the wall. There is likely someone living with Serini who doesn't have as high a DEX stat, but has a high STR stat.
My best guess would be as to who would be Kragoor, but it could be anyone.
Basically: Hooded figure = Serini.
She has a roommate who has low DEX but high STR

[HuntedWalrus]

Well, we're about to see if my "Zeus and Giggles" theory is correct...

Green=Zeus (or some other unknowingly-surviving Eastern God such as Hades). Thinks the Snarl should run the show. Wants to stop fighting it and has sabotaged all previously possible attempts to stop it. And he's still going. He survived the demolition of his pantheon because they shared believers, and has held on my (a) using only minimal power, conserving energy, and (b) the other gods still think about him, and god-thought sustains pretty powerfully, as thoughts go. But it's why he can't do much, and why he needs an ally. The grey-green arm shown in the comic is that of a dying (gray) Eastern god (green).

Orange=Giggles, of the Puppet Pantheon. My theory is that Elan's puppet, having received worshippers on Orc Island, has begun ascent into godhood and is now a demiurge. Giggles being so young and malleable, Zeus has swayed Giggles into helping him. Also, he's shown up in exactly one comic page. (#561 Pop Idolatry)

How I See it Going Down: All we've seen is people trying to either stop or use the Snarl. we've yet to see anyone trying to HELP it! Seems like a good time to introduce such a person. And Giggles could replace the Dark One as the fourth-color god, making D.O. unneeded. Making D.O. unneeded would be the absolute worst thing to do to Redcloak, because his biggest fear comes true: he did all of those horrible things for NOTHING. Also, Zeus's reaction to Giggles' "betrayal" would make for GREAT drama. Also, the Giant has said (I forget where) that Xykon is the Big Bad, not Redcloak, and as long as D.O. is a factor, Redcloak is boss. Demolishing the importance of D.O. permanently relegates Redcloak behind Xykon. All of this spells very meaty, very juicy storycraft to me.

Also, I just love saying, "The Adventures of Zeus and Giggles"

P.S. Now that I think about it, Hades makes more sense than Zeus. Yes, we see him dead in the Crayons of Time, but we know that story is not exactly as it actually happened. Hades, as god of the Underworld, would be boosted by all of the death, and would perish last, if at all. And if he saw the Snarl as a kind of underworld, he may come to view it as his duty to assist. But I'm just spinning at this point. Zeus and Giggles!

[Necris Omega]

If this is our final remaining "original" gate guardian, it'll be especially interesting to hear the extent of her knowledge on the matter.

It seems almost certain the Order of the Scribble didn't have the complete picture on the scope of the issue.

[Emperor Time]

O-Chul and Lien are a great duo and one of them is definitely going to die before the end of the strip.

I hope not since there both great. And if one of them dies then were down to two members left which is dangerously low.

[Emmit Svenson]

Well, we're about to see if my "Zeus and Giggles" theory is correct...!

I like this theory a lot, but I can't buy it. The dialogue in OoTS 1189 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html) just doesn't fit a surviving Western god who is covertly helping the Snarl. If they've been helping all along, why is this time any different ("...we're finally doing this...") and why after hundreds of thousands of dead worlds are they about to die ("Fun while it lasted....existing")?

Second, I can't see a god hang on for hundreds of thousands of dead worlds if just one screwy world is enough to imperil Hel.

Third, he's a puppet (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1027.html).

[The MunchKING]

Team Evil would be... is there an overarching threat in the Pokemon anime? It's been a minute since I actually watched it.

Team Rocket, just like, all the rest of them that AREN'T Jessie and James.

[Yanisa]

About the child drawings: I am disheartened to think that someone with a child is willing to aid in the end of existence, in whatever form that end takes. I presume Orange and Green know of the other planes, and know that death is not the end of existence, so cooperating in the destruction of everything including those outer planes is pretty self-centered. Definitely not good parenting.

It could also be someone with low int, which are often depicted as child-like in the comic. See Thog, who was, besides his child-like demeaner, very much a evil person willingly committing evil acts.

Although that type of character is a bit done in the comic...

[danielxcutter]

Team Rocket, just like, all the rest of them that AREN'T Jessie and James.

Wasn't there a pair of losers who sucked just as much as them?

[Oito Luas]

O-Chul and Lien are a great duo and one of them is definitely going to die before the end of the strip.

If O-Chul dies it will probably trigger the MitD's change of heart
:mitd:



Green=Zeus (or some other unknowingly-surviving Eastern God such as Hades). Thinks the Snarl should run the show. Wants to stop fighting it and has sabotaged all previously possible attempts to stop it. And he's still going. He survived the demolition of his pantheon because they shared believers, and has held on my (a) using only minimal power, conserving energy, and (b) the other gods still think about him, and god-thought sustains pretty powerfully, as thoughts go. But it's why he can't do much, and why he needs an ally. The grey-green arm shown in the comic is that of a dying (gray) Eastern god (green).
Interesting! Alternatively, the Eastern Pantheon could've been born again in the world(s) inside/beyond the gates. Is there a theory like this already? I mean, If the snarl still contains green quiddity & it created another world inside this one... it's a possibility!

[Yanisa]

Wasn't there a pair of losers who sucked just as much as them?

In general, Team Rocket are serious villains that pose a global threat... until a 10-year old shows up. Then they deflate into losers.

Butch and Cassidy, who are basically "the other team rocket" of the anime are depicted as the successful group in contrast with Jessy and James constant failing. But on screen their schemes fails just as easily. Perhaps you meant them.

Even the original red and blue games are like this. Imaging the Godfather taking over an entire country with fear (and a city by force), only to be defeated by a child, three times. That's the rocket story of the first games.

[danielxcutter]

In general, Team Rocket are serious villains that pose a global threat... until a 10-year old shows up. Then they deflate into losers.

Isn't that like at least 75% of Pokemon villains in general?


Butch and Cassidy, who are basically "the other team rocket" of the anime are depicted as the successful group in contrast with Jessy and James constant failing. But on screen their schemes fails just as easily. Perhaps you meant them.

I think yeah.


Even the original red and blue games are like this. Imaging the Godfather taking over an entire country with fear (and a city by force), only to be defeated by a child, three times. That's the rocket story of the first games.

Granted some of the other teams aren't much better. Actually most aren't.

[The MunchKING]

Even the original red and blue games are like this. Imaging the Godfather taking over an entire country with fear (and a city by force), only to be defeated by a child, three times. That's the rocket story of the first games.

Well, the kid beat him through superior firepower, so in that metaphor the kid is 10-year old Rambo or something. It's not that Team Rocket sucked in Red and Blue, you were just supposed to be that Overpowered.

[TaiLiu]

Other people have mentioned Serini already. I personally can't help but think the dexterous and strong duo might be related to Serini and Kraagor, who would fit that archetypal duo well, albeit imperfectly. "Related," of course, is doing a lot of work here—I don't have a clue if the strong one is a Kraagor clone or something else, but it seems like it would be connected specifically to him in some way.

It would also account for the childish pictures. In OOTS, Barbarians have often been depicted as childish, with Thog being the star example.

[B. Pseudonym]

In general, Team Rocket are serious villains that pose a global threat... until a 10-year old shows up. Then they deflate into losers.

To be perfectly fair, some 10-year-olds in the Pokemon universe keep literal deities as pets. Or, you know, whatever Ash's Pikachu had going on.

[JackJin]

I've got a lead on who it could be, I think. Page 571, Return Engagement, the pair of robed Lizardmen who teleported in, raised the Oracle, and then teleported right back out AND are stated by the Oracle to have a "boss" they report to, which is how Orange referred to Green. "What was, Boss?" The lizardman who had Teleport prepared for transit was even wearing orange robes, and are short enough to qualify for this "two people standing on top of each other" thing with the robed individual stirring the pot.

The only thing strange about this theory to me is the Oracle requesting a full Resurrection at a later date, which may or may not be after the point in time this group is expecting to not be existing anymore. But this pair fits the bill of teleporting mysterious figures not aligned with either any known heroes OR villains. But it tells me the boss, Green, might be a third figure we hadn't seen before.

[Xlsfd]

Now we just need to know how much time passed in-universe between Strip #1189 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html) and this one. In my opinion, it can't have been much longer than one day, if even that.

[Jordok]

I've got a lead on who it could be, I think. Page 571, Return Engagement, the pair of robed Lizardmen who teleported in, raised the Oracle, and then teleported right back out AND are stated by the Oracle to have a "boss" they report to, which is how Orange referred to Green. "What was, Boss?" The lizardman who had Teleport prepared for transit was even wearing orange robes, and are short enough to qualify for this "two people standing on top of each other" thing with the robed individual stirring the pot.


I would guess "the Boss" in this case would be the great five-headed Mistress of Dragons

[hroþila]

About the child drawings: I am disheartened to think that someone with a child is willing to aid in the end of existence, in whatever form that end takes. I presume Orange and Green know of the other planes, and know that death is not the end of existence, so cooperating in the destruction of everything including those outer planes is pretty self-centered. Definitely not good parenting.
I think there's no real reason to assume the invisible captors are aiding in the end of existence. To me, their dialogue read more as fatalistic humour - Green knows that, if it's come to this, the chances of the Snarl getting out and their being unmade are high. They're "doing this", but "this" could be pretty much anything having to do with the defense of the Gate.

[Corneel]

The mysterious figure is clearly a troll. After all they are stirring the pot.

[Fyraltari]

Now we just need to know how much time passed in-universe between Strip #1189 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html) and this one. In my opinion, it can't have been much longer than one day, if even that.

Strip 1188, Belkar asks to listen in on Elan recapping the plot to Minrah while V casts Sending. Strip 1189, O-Chul and Lien receive V's Sending informing them the Order is due in two days, they are then captured by the invisivoices. Strip 1190, Belkar wakes up and is told they've just arrived near O-Chul and Lien's position. Strip 1191, Roy mention Belkat listened to Elan two nights in a row.

It's been two days.

[danielxcutter]

Strip 1188, Belkar asks to listen in on Elan recapping the plot to Minrah while V casts Sending. Strip 1189, O-Chul and Lien receive V's Sending informing them the Order is due in two days, they are then captured by the invisivoices. Strip 1190, Belkar wakes up and is told they've just arrived near O-Chul and Lien's position. Strip 1191, Roy mention Belkat listened to Elan two nights in a row.

It's been two days.

Huh, if that's not author fiat I don't know what they used on the paladins then. Pretty sure most options that knock people out are usually measured in hours at the most, not days, and that's including magic.

[Fyraltari]

Huh, if that's not author fiat I don't know what they used on the paladins then. Pretty sure most options that knock people out are usually measured in hours at the most, not days, and that's including magic.

Repeated doses are always an option.

[danielxcutter]

Repeated doses are always an option.

Yeah, that does make sense assuming they're using something like drow poison and not something that does ability damage. Wouldn't be surprised if Green lied about the poison burning through O-Chul's arteries.

[Pory]

Mmh...let's see:
-Orange clothes on top of the cabinet
-Little blue book on table
-Lots of little plants that resemble a natural environment

I thinks it's obvious that we are talking about...Baron Pineapple :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

I think there's no real reason to assume the invisible captors are aiding in the end of existence. To me, their dialogue read more as fatalistic humour - Green knows that, if it's come to this, the chances of the Snarl getting out and their being unmade are high. They're "doing this", but "this" could be pretty much anything having to do with the defense of the Gate.
Exactly. I've been beating that drum since that comic was released.

Mmh...let's see:
-Orange clothes on top of the cabinet
-Little blue book on table
-Lots of little plants that resemble a natural environment

I thinks it's obvious that we are talking about...Baron Pineapple :smallbiggrin:
Now this is a theory I can get behind!

[Riftwolf]

If O-Chul dies it will probably trigger the MitD's change of heart
:mitd:


No, no, you don't fridge O-Chul.

[locksmith of lo]

When I saw the tall-yet-stubby-armed figure, the first thing that jumped into my head was Belkar on his stilts in Azure City. But a second thought was maybe its a serpentine body, and its only raising itself that high because of the cauldron?

funny thing is that i thought the same kind of thing and i had to go back to look at the artwork for malack to see if he had short arms. no, he did not, but i definitely thought about the lizardfolk too. :smallsmile:

but i still think serini and kid too. having a living space with no doors makes sense with a kid too. we have learned what happens when you leave your kid alone in the dungeons... they get turned into hats and maybe a piece of armour! :smallbiggrin:

[Ninja Dragon]

Poor NPCs, getting captured over and over so that the PCs have someone to rescue.

[Shining Wrath]

It could also be someone with low int, which are often depicted as child-like in the comic. See Thog, who was, besides his child-like demeaner, very much a evil person willingly committing evil acts.

Although that type of character is a bit done in the comic...

So, Lenny to someone's George. George letting Lenny be destroyed utterly is also not a good thing. Yes, I know how that story ends - not the same.


Poor NPCs, getting captured over and over so that the PCs have someone to rescue.

And neither of them has the simple decency to be a Princess.

[KorvinStarmast]

It seems almost certain the Order of the Scribble didn't have the complete picture on the scope of the issue. They were too busy with intra-Order drama to keep track of the fiddly details. :smalltongue:

The mysterious figure is clearly a troll. After all they are stirring the pot. +1

So, Lenny to someone's George. Who is George and who is Lenny? I missed the ref. :smallconfused:

[Skull the Troll]

I've got a lead on who it could be, I think. Page 571, Return Engagement, the pair of robed Lizardmen who teleported in, raised the Oracle, and then teleported right back out AND are stated by the Oracle to have a "boss" they report to, which is how Orange referred to Green. "What was, Boss?" The lizardman who had Teleport prepared for transit was even wearing orange robes, and are short enough to qualify for this "two people standing on top of each other" thing with the robed individual stirring the pot.

The only thing strange about this theory to me is the Oracle requesting a full Resurrection at a later date, which may or may not be after the point in time this group is expecting to not be existing anymore. But this pair fits the bill of teleporting mysterious figures not aligned with either any known heroes OR villains. But it tells me the boss, Green, might be a third figure we hadn't seen before.

They had two very different speaking styles. The lizardmen spoke like upper-class Brits.


They were too busy with intra-Order drama to keep track of the fiddly details. :smalltongue:
+1
Who is George and who is Lenny? I missed the ref. :smallconfused:

Of Mice and Men by Steinbeck. Lenny is the man with a mental handicap that travels with George. He is very dependant on George and it doesn't end well. I don't want to spoil the ending if you haven't read it.

On another note. We haven't factored in how this child clearly has enormous strength. They are driving darts into stone block walls!

[Ron Miel]

Of Mice and Men. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Mice_and_Men)

Of Mice and Men is a novella written by John Steinbeck.[1][2] Published in 1937, it narrates the experiences of George Milton and Lennie Small, two displaced migrant ranch workers, who move from place to place in California in search of new job opportunities during the Great Depression in the United States.

George Milton: A quick-witted man who is Lennie's guardian and best friend. His friendship with Lennie helps sustain his dream of a better future.

Lennie Small: A mentally disabled, but gigantic and physically strong man who travels with George and is his constant companion.[5] He dreams of "living off the fatta' the lan'" and being able to tend to rabbits.

[Darth V]

Hey folks, late to the party, so obvious "two kobolds above each other" joke isn't funny anymore... :smallsigh:


First things first, Lien could have won this Paladin-Off easily if she just had mentioned that her life depended on Elan! Not even Elan himself, but his hand puppet god!!! :smallbiggrin:




Yes, the font is WizardSpeak
blambot.com/products/wizardspeak
The words on the cauldron are magic instant pot


Thank you, I read the thread in hope of finding a translation. :smallbiggrin:


Allow me to give my proverbial two copper pieces:

Thank you, deltamire (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?626731-OOTS-1225-The-Discussion-Thread&p=24920045#post24920045), for giving insight of the hand colour. I think we can rule out (hob)goblins, orcs, bugbears, drow(?) and kobolds... The skin colour of the hag (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0176.html) was mentioned... Do we have a direct comparison on that? Otherwise I think Captain Captor™ might be someone new and unexpected. Compare comic 970 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0970.html) where skin colour was correctly identified as orc and right guesses about Bozzok came up early.




Regarding Greenhand: may it be that ze is wearing green gloves? Do we have any examples how gloves-wearing looks like in new graphics? (since fingers gained width I mean)?




We have enough examples (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0993.html) of gloves (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1154.html) in the new art style (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1160.html). I am afraid there is nothing conclusive to be seen, because nowadays with the new art style there is no much change in hand size. Some time ago it was easier to tell if a stick hand had gloves (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0298.html)...


If Pot Stirrer (let's make a new name!) is the same one as Captain Captor™ even at all!


Who ever was playing ALSO isn't the one who captured the Paladins, since they were dropped with accurate shots.


Whoever threw the darts at the dart board and managed to miss the whole board itself with all three tries is not the same entyity that hit both paladins in their necks (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1189.html) on first try (not counting Lien blocking one dart; if she hadn't blocked it that would be a straight hit too). At least I am interpretating the lower half of the stick figure heads as necks for noticable lack of visible necks in the art style. Hitting that accurate is quite a feat, real world police/military is trained to aim for center of mass because greater target area. Clichéed headshots are for hollywood movies and ego shooter games. Hitting necks needs even more accuracy than headshots! Compare and contrast Redcloack's terrifying aim for hitting (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0900.html) opponents between the eyes (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1214.html)...




Isn’t the usual size of an adventuring party 4-6? The builder of this room is genre-savvy.


Whoever built that room, they were expecting to hold a standard adventuring party in their living room FFS! Seems a bit like Bond Villain Lair... Either Pot Stirrer™ is very powerful or at least thinks that they are powerful enough to do so. Very Bond Villain...






The background in panel 4 isn't the same as that in panel 3, though the relative positions of the captor and the pot are very similar. This suggests that the captor is circling the pot as they stir it, as borne out by the cloak/coat appearing to drag on the floor.




What probably is supposed to be a close-up/zoom-in looks like a completely different shot. Maybe an art error, Giant changed the background in the last minute? Drawer in the background seems the same, it's just the plant that wasn't there before. My bet is art error. Wait no, looking closer again: the drawer from panel 3 is not the same thing in the background from panel 4! Panel 4 has a desk in the background! So definitly a change in perspective. (or an even greater art error)...


Don't have a specific quote for that, but someone mentioned the scribbled pictures at the wall. I can rorschach-see a dragon on the left right? one of those pictures, too. Inserting flashbacks to Girard's dining room (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0841.html)... On that note I am more interested in the framed picture above the bed (somehow I don't think it reads "Home Sweet Home"), the note on the right cupboard (maybe "Don't open! No, not even then! (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0118.html)"), the paper sheets on the table and of course the book next to the bed. But sometimes a pipe is just a new OOTS update... :smallbiggrin:

@Theories about the book being Serini's diary: No, Xykon has (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0195.html) Serini's diary (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html).




TLDR: Cloaked figure has unusual skin colour. Not any race we have seen before IIRC. Arm too short etc as noticed in thread. Pot Stirrer™ might not be the capturer because aim of dart board doesn't hold up to aim of poisoned dart thrower aka coloured voices.





Now for some fun things:


Using an advanced technique called "comparing the size of my cursor to O-Chul in the wide shot and then comparing that to other objects in the scene," I have determined that the wardrobe handles are about half to 2/3rds of an O-Chul off the ground, and the wardrobes are just shy of two O-Chuls tall.

The handles being between waist and shoulder height on an average human seems fairly normal to me. The wardrobes themselves, however, are really tall, at about eleven feet depending on how tall O-Chul is.


If we can't convince them to adopt metric, could we at least force everyone into the O-Chul-Measurement? :smallbiggrin:




https://i.postimg.cc/hjZh41Jm/ootsdickbutt.png


Not the first time comics had a doubled name. There was a thread for that somewhere. (Sorry didn't search for that now). Most of the time it might even be deliberative, for example The Bright Side Part One (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html) and Part Two (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0877.html).




One thing I find interesting is that the beings that captured our paladins were apparently concerned about not being seen, but they've brought O-Chul and Lien to a place where they are out in the open, with a great view of their current captor.

Yes, that is interesting. I couldn't make up my mind about that. Maybe just story telling convention to preserve the mystery about Captain Captor™? Tarquin did the same thing (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0882.html)...

[hamishspence]

Not the first time comics had a doubled name.

The point they're making isn't that it's a doubled name - it's the the latest comic is in the wrong place on the list.

Or was, at least. Now it's no longer between 1190 and 1191 - but where it belongs, at the top.

[B. Pseudonym]

No, no, you don't fridge O-Chul.

I mean... hopefully not, but he is sort of a grizzled mentor archetype.

We already had one person escape the disposable mentor trope, during the book that was specifically about tropes. I'm not convinced it'll happen again.

Then again, his Constitution score is around room temperature, so he might be hard to put down regardless.

[Emanick]

I'll also take that bet.

Oh, there's almost certainly no connection between Captain Captor and the IFCC. I was just making a stupid pun. :smalltongue:

[bunsen_h]

No, no, you don't fridge O-Chul.

I can see it along the lines of: "No, Monster-san, it has to be this way. This is the only way to stop the Snarl. Look for me when you reach the mountain in the heavens, many years from now. I will wait for you."

[JonahFalcon]

Is it wise to have fumes where there's no ventilation?

PS. Another callback -- this time to 1031. They just love trying to one-up each other, huh?

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1031.html

[Ron Miel]

One thing I find interesting is that the beings that captured our paladins were apparently concerned about not being seen, but they've brought O-Chul and Lien to a place where they are out in the open, with a great view of their current captor.

Being invisible helped them to make the capture. They darted O-Chul before he knew they were there, and Lien couldn't fight them without seeing them. After the capture there was no need to remain invisible.

[Bookshelfstud]

You know, I gotta admit, the Holey Brotherhood is seeming more and more likely to me. Am I crazy?

We have Rich saying that there would be a major ally in the first half of this book who has appeared in exactly one strip so far, prequels included. The Holey Brotherhood is only in one of the crayon flashbacks, shown fighting Girard Draketooth and Lirian, and their representative is wearing a cloak much like Captain Captor here. I also get the vibe from Green Voice in 1189 that Green and Orange aren't necessarily enemies of the Order - Green seems regretful about how messy the kidnapping was, and obviously Lien and O-Chul are, you know, *alive.*

But more importantly, Green seems very resigned to the end of existence. This implies a lot of things, obviously - they know something about the Snarl and the way the gods restart reality. Combine this with the Holey Brotherhood, who believed that the holes of the Snarl had every right to exist...what if this ally, perhaps the Holey Brotherhood, knows or has discovered something about the world through the rifts? And now that the last Gate is under assault, maybe it's time to put into motion some sort of plan to let the world in the rifts be born through to the main world, erasing existence but creating a new world that has "every right" to exist, too?

*What rough Snarl, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Kraagor's Gate to be born?*

Alright maybe it's a little tinfoily. Maybe.

[Dion]

Edit: the darts in the wall, away from the dartboard, indicate that whoever was playing is *not* a halfling

Good catch! But maybe they’re doing trick shots. Like... blindfolded, doing cartwheels, and throwing with their off foot.

I’d still expect an epic level halfling rogue to hit more than that, though

[hroþila]

Generally speaking the good guys need allies whose goals broadly align with their own. Unsealing the rift and/or destroying this world are not things the Order should be on board with.

[B. Pseudonym]

You know, I gotta admit, the Holey Brotherhood is seeming more and more likely to me. Am I crazy?

Maybe a little. He did specify they would be an important ally, and the Holey Brotherhood's pro-rift agenda makes them... probably not that.

That said, if it ends up being the Holey Brotherhood, the canyon full of tunnels would become hilariously fitting, especially if they had some change of heart with regard to doors at some point in the last sixty years.

A change of heart with regard to doors would also allow them to help maintain the Gates without violating their holey convictions... and if they know the Snarl intends to destroy the entire material plane, then they would also know that that would leave no medium for holes to exist in... and Serini did seem to have help building the Tomb... and now I'm here thinking the Holey Brotherhood miiiiiiiiiiiiiiight actually come back.

On the other hand, they were very much opposed to the creation of the Gates in the first place, even though the Scribblers presumably told them what was at stake. What would've stopped them from just blowing up Serini's Gate as soon as they found it?

[Bookshelfstud]

On the other hand, they were very much opposed to the creation of the Gates in the first place, even though the Scribblers presumably told them what was at stake. What would've stopped them from just blowing up Serini's Gate as soon as they found it?

Yeah I mean this definitely requires a shift in motives for the HB. Maybe they want a bargaining chip, and having only 1 Gate left means all the cards are on the table? Mixed poker metaphor? I just have a strong feeling that the world on the other side of the rifts is going to turn out to be something that the OOTS has to choose whether or not to let live/save, and if that's the case then we need a faction advocating for that world on the other side.

[Metastachydium]

Personally, I still think that
1. the Voices (or whatever we call them now that one of them might not be just a voice anymore) and the Mystery Ally are going to be different characters;
2. the Voices are draconic creatures (for quite a number of reasons; most recently, the drawing of a dragon on the wall gives me some hope);
3. the Mystery Ally is going to be aligned with the IFCC (and might very well be the Vessel); and
4. if the Voices are indeed draconic creatures, they might serve Tiamat.
As for who might and who might not qualify as an important ally for the Order, I'd like to point out that the Mystery Ally is explicitly stated to become an ally of the Order for the first half of the book, which could imply that they will cease to be an ally at a point and therefore their objectives might differ significantly from those of the Order even if some of their tactical priorities coincide.

[bunsen_h]

Is it wise to have fumes where there's no ventilation?

We don't know that there's no ventilation. All we know is that Lien couldn't see any windows or doors, which doesn't even necessarily mean that they don't exist.

Is there some analogue of Purify Food and Drink that can be used to freshen air?

[KorvinStarmast]

I don't want to spoil the ending if you haven't read it. I opted out of that one in High School. (IIRC, my brother had read it and done a paper on it the year before). I picked Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury. :smalleek: I suspect that the paper would have been easie to write if I'd picked a different book. (The benefit was that a year later, in college, guess what book we had in English Lit? Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury. I was in like flint!)

But it's an American classic, I suppose I need to check it out.

"No, Monster-san, it has to be this way. This is the only way to stop the Snarl. Look for me when you reach the mountain in the heavens, many years from now. I will wait for you." That's very O-Chul. +many.


We don't know that there's no ventilation. All we know is that Lien couldn't see any windows or doors, which doesn't even necessarily mean that they don't exist. Chimney or simply a vent/skylight that is "up" and not in the current view.

[Ghosty]

I opted out of that one in High School. (IIRC, my brother had read it and done a paper on it the year before). I picked Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury. :smalleek: I suspect that the paper would have been easie to write if I'd picked a different book. (The benefit was that a year later, in college, guess what book we had in English Lit? Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury. I was in like flint!)

But it's an American classic, I suppose I need to check it out....

...Chimney or simply a vent/skylight that is "up" and not in the current view.

Having read both, I was going to say, "You chose...poorly," but it turned out great. Guess that old Zen master was onto something. OMAM is good, but I like Steinbeck.

I have a kitchen with limited ventilation. It's...not pleasant. I just figured, like the lighting requirements for plants, that 'magic!' was handling it.

The comment referencing the dart player has enough strength to drive the darts into solid blocks, (and is careless enough or childlike enough to leave them there)...sound like anyone we know?

I'll be disappointed if the Holey Brotherhood shows up, but I think the Giant could make it great anyway.

[bunsen_h]

Chimney or simply a vent/skylight that is "up" and not in the current view.

I once created a dungeon with an evil cleric who was doing disease research. (Best way to cause widespread misery!) He had a ventilation system based on a Sphere of Annihilation.

[Hopeless]

Maybe they use a variation of the same transportation system Haley just bypassed however temporarily?

Is there no chance Serini is related to Belkar or did they mention Serini's surname?

[Goblin_Priest]

Yeah Instant Pots are designed to be extremely easy to use. It's a slow cooker with a microwave screen basically, it has auto-sets for most foods and depressures itself automatically. I use it for food prep because it takes about 10 minutes to set up tops and then the food is done in 3 hours and ready to refreeze.

Instant Pots are pressure cookers (among a bunch of other related things), slow cookers are not.

I've got a slow cooker, but I barely ever use it. Honestly, I don't really see the appeal. I don't find it any less work than stove-top cooking.


They are...but also it's a $100 combo pressure cooker/saute pan/slow cooker/rice cooker/yogurt maker, whereas you can get a basic slow cooker for like $30. All the people I personally know who have them are pretty good cooks who like the ease but also the flexibility as opposed to people who otherwise don't cook (although maybe that's just me). All I'm saying is that it's more like a programmable coffee machine with a timer than, say, a nespresso pod machine.

Therefore (or maybe just "in any case") this seems to me to be more likely to be a joke based on the faddishness of the instant pot (like the TeeVo way back when) than it is an indication of whether the pot requires a magic user to use.

I don't really get the appeal of instant coffee machines, either. Coffee... is... super easy. Put the grinds in a filter, put water, and voilà. If you want to grind it yourself, again, no extra difficulty, just an extra appliance. Instant coffee machines are just pricier lower quality environmental disasters.

Like the Instant Pot, Instant Coffee, imo, probably targets the low-confidence people who can't bother to learn to do their own food.

Which brings me to all those people who barely ever make their own food, and buy their food pre-made.

What gives?

I will never understand people.

[Ghosty]

...Which brings me to all those people who barely ever make their own food, and buy their food pre-made.

What gives?

I will never understand people.

It's quick. It's easy. Cooking can be intimidating.

It was for me, until my now ex-wife pointed out, a la @bunsen_h upthread, that cooking wasn't conceptually different than the chemistry lab work I was already doing. Get a good cookbook---I like the Cooks Illustrated series---and do what they tell you until you learn enough to start doing it on your own.

Now, I cook enough to instantly see why adequate ventilation is essential for a kitchen, and not merely a good idea. So it goes; my next kitchen will have great exhaust fans.

[Goblin_Priest]

It's quick. It's easy. Cooking can be intimidating.

It was for me, until my now ex-wife pointed out, a la @bunsen_h upthread, that cooking wasn't conceptually different than the chemistry lab work I was already doing. Get a good cookbook---I like the Cooks Illustrated series---and do what they tell you until you learn enough to start doing it on your own.

Now, I cook enough to instantly see why adequate ventilation is essential for a kitchen, and not merely a good idea. So it goes; my next kitchen will have great exhaust fans.

Cooking is fairly easy. Especially in these days, with billions of recipes on the internet, and in books. I learnt to cook by myself, was never really shown before moving out. Sure, messed up a few times, but I also didn't really look for tips anywhere so a lot of the mistakes would have been avoidable.

Buying pre-made food is expensive and unhealthy. And did I mention expensive? Man, so people complaining about not having enough money, and dumping it all on fast food because they can't be bothered to cook...

[bunsen_h]

Un-spoilered:
Is there no chance Serini is related to Belkar or did they mention Serini's surname?

Her surname is Toormuck (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html). That doesn't preclude their being related, of course.


I've got a slow cooker, but I barely ever use it. Honestly, I don't really see the appeal. I don't find it any less work than stove-top cooking.

They're useful for things that require long cooking at just-about-boiling temperatures. I've got a pot of a chick pea dish cooking right now; I started it last night, and it'll be ready for supper tonight. Stews, lower-grade cuts of meat, soups, etc. are all common uses.

[Malloon]

They're useful for things that require long cooking at just-about-boiling temperatures. I've got a pot of a chick pea dish cooking right now; I started it last night, and it'll be ready for supper tonight. Stews, lower-grade cuts of meat, soups, etc. are all common uses.

Yeah, we use ours all the time. Even when we're having something else for dinner there's usually something bubbling in the corner. They're a must if you want the most tender, succulent goulash you can imagine without standing at the stove for several hours.


My guess is: Serini on a footstool to reach the pot that allows her to make magic poisons or whatnot without being a wizard, wearing gloves. Probably Green. Wearing a cloak so we the Paladins don't recognize her before the big reveal next page.

Tell me I'm wrong.

[subtledoctor]

I can't get enough of these two together.

From the captor's height and the way the cloak is bundled near the ground, plus the use of magic (cauldron with magical runes, a room with no door, and invisibility) I call yuan-ti.

And probably a dragon for the orange-voice helper. (The helper is large and has 4+ appendages - it carried Lien and O-Chul by the legs, plus both of their weapons separately, while climbing or flying up the cliff.) (Plus we are in high-level play now, and it is appropriate that dragons be encountered for more than a 1-vs.-party fight.)

[Rogar Demonblud]

I opted out of that one in High School. (IIRC, my brother had read it and done a paper on it the year before). I picked Faulkner's The Sound and The Fury. :smalleek: I suspect that the paper would have been easie to write if I'd picked a different book. (The benefit was that a year later, in college, guess what book we had in English Lit? Faulkner, The Sound and the Fury. I was in like flint!)

But it's an American classic, I suppose I need to check it out.

After you do, some jokes in Bugs Bunny will make more sense.

[KorvinStarmast]

I once created a dungeon with an evil cleric who was doing disease research. (Best way to cause widespread misery!) He had a ventilation system based on a Sphere of Annihilation. Dare I ask what the approprite PPE is for that lab, given the ventilation system? :smallbiggrin: (for those not familiar with it ... PPE = Personal Protective Equipment in any facility with hazmat, etc)

After you do, some jokes in Bugs Bunny will make more sense. Which is always a good thing. :smallcool:

[Peelee]

I once created a dungeon with an evil cleric who was doing disease research. (Best way to cause widespread misery!) He had a ventilation system based on a Sphere of Annihilation.

And everyone who played with you said "of course the chemist gave their dungeon a fume hood.":smalltongue:

[WanderingMist]

Un-spoilered:

Her surname is Toormuck (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html). That doesn't preclude their being related, of course.


The Order shows up and it's Serini, only for Belkar to exclaim, "Great-grandma Bitterleaf?! But we put you in a home!"

[bunsen_h]

Dare I ask what the approprite PPE is for that lab, given the ventilation system? :smallbiggrin: (for those not familiar with it ... PPE = Personal Protective Equipment in any facility with hazmat, etc)
Which is always a good thing. :smallcool:

I don't remember. That might have been unspecified. The cleric could protect himself using something like Remove Disease, of course. There were lots of "do not enter!" warning signs up, which the minions were presumed to have obeyed on pain of pain, and which the adventuring party were expected to probably ignore.


And everyone who played with you said "of course the chemist gave their dungeon a fume hood.":smalltongue:

It's been a long time, but my recollection is that I created the dungeon for a friend of mine to GM. He gave me the stats for the Big Bads, described the basic setup, and let me go have fun.

But yeah. Gotta have a fume hood.


The Order shows up and it's Serini, only for Belkar to exclaim, "Great-grandma Bitterleaf?! But we put you in a home!"

"And you thought I'd stay there?! I was probably out of the place before you were."

[Rogar Demonblud]

Which is always a good thing. :smallcool:

It's a sign of the genius of the Looney Tunes creators that they still make sense and are funny even after the references faded out.

[Mariele]

I was thinking of the Holey Brotherhood, too. That would be a riot.

I love the way the place is decorated! So cozy. Wonder how long until we find out the captor's identity? How long has it been since these two were captured, anyway, in real time? Because I sort of feel like it was the same time last year...

[Rogar Demonblud]

Longer. 1189 was the last page of Book 6 and went up before Christmas 2019.

edit: specifically on 2 Dec 2019, so 14 months ago.

[Ruck]

They are...but also it's a $100 combo pressure cooker/saute pan/slow cooker/rice cooker/yogurt maker, whereas you can get a basic slow cooker for like $30. All the people I personally know who have them are pretty good cooks who like the ease but also the flexibility as opposed to people who otherwise don't cook (although maybe that's just me). All I'm saying is that it's more like a programmable coffee machine with a timer than, say, a nespresso pod machine.

Therefore (or maybe just "in any case") this seems to me to be more likely to be a joke based on the faddishness of the instant pot (like the TeeVo way back when) than it is an indication of whether the pot requires a magic user to use.

Yeah, I think I agree with this.


The "programmable pressure cooker" is what persuaded me to buy one, and I find it very useful. I'm currently using it about once every three days, and it scores over my old "regular" stove-top pressure cooker in that I can set it up and let it run without having to pay attention to it. The old one requires regular checking to make sure that the burner setting is right to have the thing hissing gently but not too much. (And yes, I consider myself a pretty good cook.)

Yeah, we use our Insta Pot for quite a few things, but the pressure cooker, and being able to shorten the cooking time for meals that might take a long time or a lot of effort otherwise, is extremely useful.


Given this is the season of wrapping up story lines... Leeky Windstaff.... The clothing strewn on the table, the plants growing all over the room.... Totally a short druid...

I think that storyline wrapped up pretty well when Leeky and Pompey just walked away from the whole Linear Guild mess.

[CountDVB]

Lien: "...to their false god..."

Careful, Lien. Not even Banjo is above smiting non-believers. For some reason when I first saw the cloaked figure, I thought they were a drow.

[Ironsmith]

Lien: "...to their false god..."

Careful, Lien. Not even Banjo is above smiting non-believers. For some reason when I first saw the cloaked figure, I thought they were a drow.

It occurs to me... wouldn't that mean there *aren't* false gods in the Stickverse? As long as someone believes in a given god, in some form, they exist (see also Banjo, Giggles). Since the primary danger of a "false god" is their followers, they can't be false in any meaningful sense.

[goodpeople25]

Lien: "...to their false god..."

Careful, Lien. Not even Banjo is above smiting non-believers. For some reason when I first saw the cloaked figure, I thought they were a drow.
Well technically the orcs' worship of Banjo as a god did have an element of falseness in that the deity in question just happened to resemble their subject of worship.

But I think Lien may have blasphemed Banjo previously so smiting is still on the table.

[CountDVB]

It occurs to me... wouldn't that mean there *aren't* false gods in the Stickverse? As long as someone believes in a given god, in some form, they exist (see also Banjo, Giggles). Since the primary danger of a "false god" is their followers, they can't be false in any meaningful sense.

Well, I guess the danger of a very minor god like Banjo and Giggles (and I guess Lord Mandolin), the main threat would be their followers, though then again, that is how a god gains power. Our second favorite Dark One became as such when his death led to his army going on a crusade in his name which empowered him to be promoted from goblin to godlin.

But yeah, they are not false gods I suppose, just ones unable to act on their accord directly... but then again, the bigger gods have their hands tied by their rules to prevent the endless kicking of sandcastles as Lord Odin put it.

[Emanick]

It occurs to me... wouldn't that mean there *aren't* false gods in the Stickverse? As long as someone believes in a given god, in some form, they exist (see also Banjo, Giggles). Since the primary danger of a "false god" is their followers, they can't be false in any meaningful sense.

No, it appears that either you are a god or you aren’t - there’s no “in-between” status, as far as we know. All actual gods seem to be sapient beings, which Banjo and Giggles are not.

[4sigma]

Long time reader -- first time poster.

Couldn't the figure in the cloak be a lizardfolk or similar? Looking back at Ganjji in strips 715-750 or so, he appears to have a similar build to our cloaked figure, including the short arms.

Have not seen it mentioned yet, but cloaked figure appears to have an odd protrusion in their upper back. Possibly they normally walk on 4 legs and are only standing up right to stir the cauldron? If they normally are low to the ground this would explain the furniture all designed for low reach, but the ability for example to water higher hanging plants. Or more likely they have a climb speed so they can water the plants on top of the wardrobes. And also that would be how they climbed the cliff.

The bed appears rather long for a halfling, unless they also sleep on stilts.

I like the theory that there is a second creature that lives on the "large dog bed" who drew the crayon drawings, is strong, and bad at darts.

Enor and Ganjji would in fact fit the physical setting fairly well. Ganjji is very likely good with darts. Enor I could easily see doing the crayon drawings, strong, bad at darts, and would explain flying "up the cliff" carrying both paladins plus their weapons in his four claws.

Not saying that I think this is Enor and Ganjji, as there's no good reason for them to be here. But a similar pair of a lizardfolk type and a half-dragon would fit a lot of observations. I suppose the lizardfolk wouldn't have a colored speech balloon, but Ganjii did. So, maybe a half-dragon and a half -- something more dextrous?


As others have said, I assume whoever lives here almost never leaves. No doors or windows, which is why the plants are here to provide oxygen. Several crates and barrels of supplies so they have months or years of food and whatnot. I don't think this place is used to restock the dungeon with monsters. I think they occasionally detain people poking around Kraagor's Tomb. I don't think they have anything to do with the IFCC.

[danielxcutter]

No, it appears that either you are a god or you aren’t - there’s no “in-between” status, as far as we know. All actual gods seem to be sapient beings, which Banjo and Giggles are not.

I mean mortal spellcasters can make intelligent items, I can't see why faith couldn't do the same thing.

[Metastachydium]

Long time reader -- first time poster.

Couldn't the figure in the cloak be a lizardfolk or similar? Looking back at Ganjji in strips 715-750 or so, he appears to have a similar build to our cloaked figure, including the short arms.

Have not seen it mentioned yet, but cloaked figure appears to have an odd protrusion in their upper back. Possibly they normally walk on 4 legs and are only standing up right to stir the cauldron? If they normally are low to the ground this would explain the furniture all designed for low reach, but the ability for example to water higher hanging plants. Or more likely they have a climb speed so they can water the plants on top of the wardrobes. And also that would be how they climbed the cliff.

The bed appears rather long for a halfling, unless they also sleep on stilts.

I like the theory that there is a second creature that lives on the "large dog bed" who drew the crayon drawings, is strong, and bad at darts.

Enor and Ganjji would in fact fit the physical setting fairly well. Enor is very likely good with darts. Ganjji I could easily see doing the crayon drawings, strong, bad at darts, and would explain flying "up the cliff" carrying both paladins plus their weapons in his four claws.

Not saying that I think this is Enor and Ganjji, as there's no good reason for them to be here. But a similar pair of a lizardfolk type and a half-dragon would fit a lot of observations. I suppose the lizardfolk wouldn't have a colored speech balloon, but Ganjii did. So, maybe a half-dragon and a half -- something more dextrous?


As others have said, I assume whoever lives here almost never leaves. No doors or windows, which is why the plants are here to provide oxygen. Several crates and barrels of supplies so they have months or years of food and whatnot. I don't think this place is used to restock the dungeon with monsters. I think they occasionally detain people poking around Kraagor's Tomb. I don't think they have anything to do with the IFCC.

Half-dragon lizardfolk would give us a figure that looks like a lizardfolk and talks like a dragon.

[Fyraltari]

Well technically the orcs' worship of Banjo as a god did have an element of falseness in that the deity in question just happened to resemble their subject of worship.

That's not true. Their previous deity was the land itself which looks nothing like Banjo. Elan converted them to Banjoism is all. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html)

[Ruck]

That's not true. Their previous deity was the land itself which looks nothing like Banjo. Elan converted them to Banjoism is all. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html)

The mountain looks exactly like Banjo's hat and the reefs off the coast look like the buttons on his (blue like the water) robe. They even point it out in the strip you linked: "like shaman vurkle, banjo clothes show. chief grukgruk know sign when chief grukgruk see sign."

[Fyraltari]

The mountain looks exactly like Banjo's hat and the reefs off the coast look like the buttons on his (blue like the water) robe. They even point it out in the strip you linked: "like shaman vurkle, banjo clothes show. chief grukgruk know sign when chief grukgruk see sign."

I'm an idiot.

[Goblin_Priest]

Un-spoilered:
They're useful for things that require long cooking at just-about-boiling temperatures. I've got a pot of a chick pea dish cooking right now; I started it last night, and it'll be ready for supper tonight. Stews, lower-grade cuts of meat, soups, etc. are all common uses.

Oh, they do have uses. I've used it to make soup every now and then, and some cuts of pork, and... well, that's about it, really, and we barely ever eat soup, and we don't really eat much pork anymore, so I can't remember the last time I used it.

They /do/ have specific uses that are practical, but the argument that's useless thrown to promote them is /ease/, and that's what I don't really buy. You still need to prep all the ingredients, and for me, not being a super ninja knife master chef, is typically what takes the most of my meal-making time. I don't find the slow-cooker saves me much work, be it in time of preparation or effort of preparation, compared to having stuff on a pan, or in a wok, or in a pot, or in the oven. And if someone's going to eat from a slow cooker every day "to save time and effort", then either they'll always be eating the same damn thing (dry chewy ragoût meat cubes, yummy ;), or pork shoulders/tenderloin every day), or making a recipe that would have tasted much better if cooked differently.

[Shining Wrath]

They were too busy with intra-Order drama to keep track of the fiddly details. :smalltongue:
+1
Who is George and who is Lenny? I missed the ref. :smallconfused:

Of Mice and Men, by John Steinbeck.
George and Lenny are migrant farm workers.
Lenny is big and enormously strong, but not very smart. George is small but takes care of Lenny - he is responsible for him.
Farms hire Lenny to get someone who can move bales of hay all day without tiring, and George comes as part of the package, and they both win.
The end of the story is sad, but the book is still worth reading.

I am wondering if person #2, the one off-stage right now, is of the same species as MitD. It just seems right to introduce more clues.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Oh, they do have uses. I've used it to make soup every now and then, and some cuts of pork, and... well, that's about it, really, and we barely ever eat soup, and we don't really eat much pork anymore, so I can't remember the last time I used it.

They /do/ have specific uses that are practical, but the argument that's useless thrown to promote them is /ease/, and that's what I don't really buy. You still need to prep all the ingredients, and for me, not being a super ninja knife master chef, is typically what takes the most of my meal-making time. I don't find the slow-cooker saves me much work, be it in time of preparation or effort of preparation, compared to having stuff on a pan, or in a wok, or in a pot, or in the oven. And if someone's going to eat from a slow cooker every day "to save time and effort", then either they'll always be eating the same damn thing (dry chewy ragoût meat cubes, yummy ;), or pork shoulders/tenderloin every day), or making a recipe that would have tasted much better if cooked differently.

I think the idea is that with a slow cooker vs anything else, the same ingredients require significantly less prep time. A bad cut of meat can be roughly cubed and thrown in the slow cooker, but if you wanted to pan-fry it, you'd need to be prepared to bring out the big mace and pound that slab of connective tissue into submission before it could be browned in the pan if you wanted to be able to chew it after. These days, with easy, cheap access to various qualities of meat, that distinction is pointless, because you just wouldn't do that to yourself, you'd just buy a tender cut of meat for browning instead.

I'm not a fan of slow cookers myself, because I have a scheduled life and slow cookers take my "prep food" time and moves it to places where it barely fits. The last thing I want to be doing 6-8 hours before a meal is to prep for that meal. I like to prep the meal about 30 minutes before the meal, not the day before or in the morning or some other weird time. And, as you said, the actual work time is still roughly the same, it just extends the cooking time to infinity. I'll grant it that not having to stir or flip or anything else does mean it is not as labour-intensive during cooking, but that's not where the labour-intensive part of cooking is anyway, unless you are making risotto or something easily burnable.

That said, the only recipe I have for certain pasta dishes is with the slow cooker, so that's what I use for them. It is just a whole rigmarole of remembering to set up hours in advance, instead of being able to make it just before the meal.

Grey Wolf

[Ironsmith]

No, it appears that either you are a god or you aren’t - there’s no “in-between” status, as far as we know. All actual gods seem to be sapient beings, which Banjo and Giggles are not.

You sure they aren't? I mean, sure, they don't answer Elan or the orcs directly, but the fact that Elan can use Banjo to "smite" someone implies that they can respond, in some form.

Maybe it's a god's equivalent of infancy, to use only the most basic of doctrines as their word ("Follow me, believers" and "down with the unbelievers") and it's not until they get older and more developed that they have proper ideologies.

[Dion]

It occurs to me... wouldn't that mean there *aren't* false gods in the Stickverse?

If you’re a cleric, you can follow anything. You can follow a traditional god, you can follow a god you made up, you can follow the earth, you can follow the platonic ideal of a perfectly sorted music collection.

Doesn’t matter. If you want to follow it, and your DM lets you, you can be a cleric of it. And if you want to call a perfectly sorted music collection your god, everyone is going to understand what you mean.

In the stickverse, there is a *second* definition of a god: an immortal beings with quiddity and pantheon, who all recognize each other, and who created the worlds together..

Banjo is a god of the first type, but not of the second type.

Conversely, most of this second type of god are also the first type of god. Except Hel. Since you can’t worship or follow Hel unless you’re undead, Hel is not a “real” god to mortals, like Banjo or rocks or music collections are.

Edit: of course, since it’s D&D, there are a huge number of supplements and magazine articles and blog posts and so on from hundreds of different sources that have put optional rules all over it, because nothing is real in D&D unless it has hit points and an armor class.

Banjo probably has the hit points and armor class of a puppet.

[Quartz]

I like the way they're info-dumping to each other for the benefit of the hooded figure.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm not a fan of slow cookers myself, because I have a scheduled life and slow cookers take my "prep food" time and moves it to places where it barely fits. The last thing I want to be doing 6-8 hours before a meal is to prep for that meal. I like to prep the meal about 30 minutes before the meal, not the day before or in the morning or some other weird time. While I tend toward the same preferences as you do vis a vis when to cook and when it's dinner time, my wife generally wants stuff done ahead of time, and if it's a day or a half a day ahead of time, so much the better. She'll drop that shoe leather tough slab of meat in the slow cooker with soup and onions before she heads to works, and it simmers/breaks down all day.

Different approaches, and it all results in dinner. :smallsmile:

[Riftwolf]

I mean mortal spellcasters can make intelligent items, I can't see why faith couldn't do the same thing.

I guess it comes down to 'how many believe this' and 'how many believe the opposite'. Banjo had, at his peak, about fifty followers for less than a day. Before and after that, Elans belief was countered by the rest of the Orders disbelief. It takes longer than a day to craft an intelligent item by 3.5 rules, so enough people would have to believe in Banjo to counter his disbelievers, for long enough for that faith to craft his intelligence.
Which is a big ask. Because he's a puppet.

[bunsen_h]

If you’re a cleric, you can follow anything. You can follow a traditional god, you can follow a god you made up, you can follow the earth, you can follow the platonic ideal of a perfectly sorted music collection.

Doesn’t matter. If you want to follow it, and your DM lets you, you can be a cleric of it. And if you want to call a perfectly sorted music collection your god, everyone is going to understand what you mean.

I'm not up on the details, but I'd be inclined to think that a perfectly-sorted music collection wouldn't be able to grant divine magic spells..?

[Dion]

I'm not up on the details, but I'd be inclined to think that a perfectly-sorted music collection wouldn't be able to grant divine magic spells..?

Oh, of course not! Someone probably failed sort Neil Young and Rush together under “C” for Canadian. No way you’re going to get spells from that.

But the platonic ideal of a perfectly sorted music collection, on the other hand...

[Ironsmith]

Oh, of course not! Someone probably failed sort Neil Young and Rush together under “C” for Canadian. No way you’re going to get spells from that.

But the platonic ideal of a perfectly sorted music collection, on the other hand...

*shields eyes from holy glow*

...Ah crap. I'm not gonna get to listen to *any* of this, am I? Oh well. At least I can scare zombies.

[Jasdoif]

I'm not up on the details, but I'd be inclined to think that a perfectly-sorted music collection wouldn't be able to grant divine magic spells..?Not directly, maybe; but intense devotion to perfectly-sorted music collections could be enough to draw the attention powerful creatures on Mechanus who are interested in the power of Law intersecting with music (which is typically associated with cannot-be-lawful bards), and they might provide divine spells noncommittally.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

You sure they aren't? I mean, sure, they don't answer Elan or the orcs directly, but the fact that Elan can use Banjo to "smite" someone implies that they can respond, in some form.

Maybe it's a god's equivalent of infancy, to use only the most basic of doctrines as their word ("Follow me, believers" and "down with the unbelievers") and it's not until they get older and more developed that they have proper ideologies.

Or, you know, it's a puppet. It "talks" because Elan talks for it using ventriloquism. It "moves" because Elan moves his fingers inside the puppet. And it "smites" because Elan cast a cantrip.

GW

[Goblin_Priest]

I think the idea is that with a slow cooker vs anything else, the same ingredients require significantly less prep time. A bad cut of meat can be roughly cubed and thrown in the slow cooker, but if you wanted to pan-fry it, you'd need to be prepared to bring out the big mace and pound that slab of connective tissue into submission before it could be browned in the pan if you wanted to be able to chew it after. These days, with easy, cheap access to various qualities of meat, that distinction is pointless, because you just wouldn't do that to yourself, you'd just buy a tender cut of meat for browning instead.

Indeed, I was going to say "just buy the appropriate cuts" until I saw you say so.

Though I'd add that even for low quality cuts, I don't even think the slow cooker is the best option. Chewy rough beef cubes, when put in the slow cooker, will still be rough (and dry) when they come out. Same cubes, though, cut more thinly, put on a pan with some sauce? Much, much better.


I'm not a fan of slow cookers myself, because I have a scheduled life and slow cookers take my "prep food" time and moves it to places where it barely fits. The last thing I want to be doing 6-8 hours before a meal is to prep for that meal. I like to prep the meal about 30 minutes before the meal, not the day before or in the morning or some other weird time. And, as you said, the actual work time is still roughly the same, it just extends the cooking time to infinity. I'll grant it that not having to stir or flip or anything else does mean it is not as labour-intensive during cooking, but that's not where the labour-intensive part of cooking is anyway, unless you are making risotto or something easily burnable.
Grey Wolf

That's probably one of my biggest gripes with them as well. My wife encourages me now and then to use a slow cooker so I wouldn't be so rushed when I get home, to prep the food. The slow cooker would move preparation to the one time of the day where it's instantly gratifying, to some other time where I certainly would much rather be doing something else.

Plus, that's additional dish washing sessions. I'd rather wash the cooking dishes with the plates from the meal, than prep the food some other time, clean all the stuff I used, then eat much later, and then clean those dishes.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I guess it comes down to 'how many believe this' and 'how many believe the opposite'. Banjo had, at his peak, about fifty followers for less than a day. Before and after that, Elans belief was countered by the rest of the Orders disbelief. It takes longer than a day to craft an intelligent item by 3.5 rules, so enough people would have to believe in Banjo to counter his disbelievers, for long enough for that faith to craft his intelligence.
Which is a big ask. Because he's a puppet.

It's important to remember that Banjo is collecting a little Belief because of his status as brother and chief rival to Giggles. Because D&D theology be weird, yo.

[noneill]

Note, what follows does not stem from me having great eyesight, but rather from the fact that I'm a Patreon supporter, and Rich sends out high resolution version of his pages.



I never went over to Patreon to see what the rewards are but after reading your post, I just went over and joined !
Only $2 a month ! Keep OOTS going !

I am enjoying the high resolution download. So cool to check out the little details.

[Dion]

Or, you know, it's a puppet. It "talks" because Elan talks for it using ventriloquism. It "moves" because Elan moves his fingers inside the puppet. And it "smites" because Elan cast a cantrip.

Sure. That’s what Banjo wants you to think. But all this time he’s been secretly reordering your music collection, and trashing anything with mandolins.

[Jasdoif]

I think the idea is that with a slow cooker vs anything else, the same ingredients require significantly less prep time. A bad cut of meat can be roughly cubed and thrown in the slow cooker, but if you wanted to pan-fry it, you'd need to be prepared to bring out the big mace and pound that slab of connective tissue into submission before it could be browned in the pan if you wanted to be able to chew it after. These days, with easy, cheap access to various qualities of meat, that distinction is pointless, because you just wouldn't do that to yourself, you'd just buy a tender cut of meat for browning instead.The primary feature of using a slow cooker with cheap cuts of meat is that it takes a combination of heat and time to melt tough collagen into flavorful gelatin, and a slow cooker provides both. It's very good for stews, compared to using a superior cut of meat that'd be better served on its own than as a supporting ingredient.


I'm not a fan of slow cookers myself, because I have a scheduled life and slow cookers take my "prep food" time and moves it to places where it barely fits. The last thing I want to be doing 6-8 hours before a meal is to prep for that meal. I like to prep the meal about 30 minutes before the meal, not the day before or in the morning or some other weird time. And, as you said, the actual work time is still roughly the same, it just extends the cooking time to infinity. I'll grant it that not having to stir or flip or anything else does mean it is not as labour-intensive during cooking, but that's not where the labour-intensive part of cooking is anyway, unless you are making risotto or something easily burnable.Another feature is that a slow cooker can run unattended for the typical-workday-length that it takes to finish cooking. How significant this is will vary wildly (it doesn't sound like it'd be meaningful to you, for example); but if a household has sharply limited person-hours to devote to cooking and/or has people with demanding jobs that are famished the moment they walk in the door, it's very convenient to have a hot meal all ready to go.

[Ginasius]

I like the theory that there is a second creature that lives on the "large dog bed" who drew the crayon drawings, is strong, and bad at darts.


I don't know if this theory has been said before: the Monster in the Dark might have a long lost niece.

[Feruk]

I don't know if this theory has been said before: the Monster in the Dark might have a long lost niece.

A niece? Would that make the MitD RC's sibling? Sibling-in-law?

[Ironsmith]

Sure. That’s what Banjo wants you to think. But all this time he’s been secretly reordering your music collection, and trashing anything with mandolins.

Hmph! What kind of godly music collection doesn't have mandolins? :smalltongue:

[Nightcanon]

The doors could be through what looks to be wardrobes directly below (and under the balcony on which O'Chul and Lien are standing). So... Narnia?
I love the inadvertent competitive Paladining, and the recognition that ultimately they are humblebragging their failures.

[Goblin_Priest]

Another feature is that a slow cooker can run unattended for the typical-workday-length that it takes to finish cooking. How significant this is will vary wildly (it doesn't sound like it'd be meaningful to you, for example); but if a household has sharply limited person-hours to devote to cooking and/or has people with demanding jobs that are famished the moment they walk in the door, it's very convenient to have a hot meal all ready to go.

I'll concede that the appeal for this, on my end at least, would sharply rise if we both started and finished work much later. I believe it's common in some places to work 9 to 6 or something like that? That's pretty unfathomable for us, who mostly work stuff like 8 to 4, more or less, and who also don't have much commute. If I finished work at 6, I would most likely be much less content to cook upon arrival. Though I probably still would.

My sympathies to all those who do such terrible hours, though.

[Nightcanon]

Dare I ask what the approprite PPE is for that lab, given the ventilation system? :smallbiggrin: (for those not familiar with it ... PPE = Personal Protective Equipment in any facility with hazmat, etc)
Which is always a good thing. :smallcool:

Is anyone unfamiliar with what PPE stands for these days? :smallbiggrin:

Re: slow cooking, yes, the big advantage is that you can leave something on to cook during the day so it is hot and ready to eat when you get in (and stews and casseroles work very well with slow cooking, where in a slow cooker or not). At various points in our working lives that's been a godsend for me and Mrs Nightcanon. We used to have a bit of a repertoire of things that took ~10 mins of prep (mostly opening cans, perhaps chopping an onion and a pepper) the night before, then in the morning just remember to take the pot out of the fridge and stick it on before going out to work.

[The MunchKING]

Is anyone unfamiliar with what PPE stands for these days? :smallbiggrin:

*raises hand*

I'll admit when I saw PPE in the context of a lab, I was trying to think of a number that starts with an E. Because my high school science classes all started flashing back, and PPB is Parts per billion in chemistry.

[bunsen_h]

I'll admit when I saw PPE in the context of a lab, I was trying to think of a number that starts with an E. Because my high school science classes all started flashing back, and PPB is Parts per billion in chemistry.

Exa. Metric prefix for 1018.