The cockroach build idea.

[Amdy_vill]

ok so hear me out, death ward but better. a build focusing on deathward like abilities try to stack as many of them as possible. my current thoughts are 9 warlocks for the gift of protection, 11 bards take death ward and contingency with your bardic secrets then. half-orc as your race. I think this build is rather bad right now and was hoping for some help refining it.

9 War 11 bard for 4 active at once and 1 in the tank

9 Sor 11 monk for 3 active at once and 17 in the tank

20 Monk for 2 active and 19 in the tanks

11 monk(Long death) 3 Barbarin(totem) 6 druid(Moon) : pick up tough for more hp.

I think optimizing the number up at once should be the focus. less in fight prep and use of resources. I think monk 20 is the most optimal for in the tank and continues use but it consumes too much I think. I feel a focus on out of combat prep and a reduction in resource consumption is how we should move the build. Maybe a move towards general servility

[Jon talks a lot]

Why half-orc? Surely a Tiefling would give you better racial modifiers, seeing as you are using two charisma casters. Yuan-Ti Pureblood is also a better choice, even Vhuman works well.

And if you really want an unkillable character, there are some monk classes that are pretty unkillable, such as a Dwarven Long death monk or some other variant.

[nickl_2000]

Why half-orc? Surely a Tiefling would give you better racial modifiers, seeing as you are using two charisma casters. Yuan-Ti Pureblood is also a better choice, even Vhuman works well.

And if you really want an unkillable character, there are some monk classes that are pretty unkillable, such as a Dwarven Long death monk or some other variant.

Because Half-Orcs have the "if you are knocked down to 0hp, instead got down to 1hp" once per day.

[Amdy_vill]

Because Half-Orcs have the "if you are knocked down to 0hp, instead got down to 1hp" once per day.

this. I am looking for more relentless/death ward abilities. if we refine the build to a point where it's not needed I would change to a race like teiflings as resistances would help.

[Jon talks a lot]

Because Half-Orcs have the "if you are knocked down to 0hp, instead got down to 1hp" once per day.

Ah I see, in that case, doesn't a paladin make sense because I'm fairly certain that one of the oaths has that same ability.

[loki_ragnarock]

Half-Orc Long Death Monk 11 could pull this off 12 times on the first short rest, and then 11 times per short rest after that.

That's pretty cockroachy.

A Divine Soul Sorcerer could pick up Death Ward. Transferring all lower level spells slots could yield a fair number of Death Wards a day, but I suspect the Long Death Monk really takes the cake in this regard.

EDIT:
Base monks get:
Purity of Body - Immunity to Poison and Disease. (Cockroachy ability to eat virtually anything.)
Evasion - No damage on successful dexterity saves lets you survive the magic nukes.
Stillness of Mind - Ability to end charm and fear effects, which can simulate being mindless like OG vermin.
Diamond Soul - Proficient with all saves, increasing general survivability.

In combination with Long Death being able to say no to death as their 11th level feature, they are probably the most cockroachy class or combination of classes you can play.

[Amdy_vill]

Ah I see, in that case, doesn't a paladin make sense because I'm fairly certain that one of the oaths has that same ability.

It's a level 15 oath for the Ancients so it would prevent other death ward options from being achievable. it would cut use down to 3 death wards(relentless, deathward, and Undying Sentinel) instead of the 4 currently(Relentless, Deathward, Gift of protection, and contingency death ward)


Half-Orc Long Death Monk 11 could pull this off 12 times on the first short rest, and then 11 times per short rest after that.

That's pretty cockroachy.

A Divine Soul Sorcerer could pick up Death Ward. Transferring all lower level spells slots could yield a fair number of Death Wards a day, but I suspect the Long Death Monk really takes the cake in this regard.

this would give us 20 death wards. 11 monk 8 death ward spells, and relentless. it would be 1 less than going nothing but a monk.

[loki_ragnarock]

this would give us 20 death wards. 11 monk 8 death ward spells, and relentless. it would be 1 less than going nothing but a monk.

I think the action economy advantages of the monk version works to the advantage on raw hp loss. But Death Ward does mitigate the very few instant death effects in the game... but those are so very few and far between in this edition that the Long Death monk probably comes out ahead, especially when in combination with the base monk chassis.

Which is to say; the sorcerer has Death Ward up. Attacked by a creature with multi-attack, the first one brings him to zero, negated by death ward. The second brings him to zero, negated by being half-orc. The third attack kills him. (Contingency isn't on the sorcerer or cleric list, yes? Wizard exclusive.)

The Long Death monk can stay up for 12 consecutive hits in the same round. Mariliths, eat your heart out.

EDIT
The sorcerer is probably more useful to the party as they can spread out the immunity to death, but I'm not sure that's the exercise here.

[Amdy_vill]

I think the action economy advantages of the monk version works to the advantage on raw hp loss. But Death Ward does mitigate the very few instant death effects in the game... but those are so very few and far between in this edition that the Long Death monk probably comes out ahead, especially when in combination with the base monk chassis.

Which is to say; the sorcerer has Death Ward up. Attacked by a creature with multi-attack, the first one brings him to zero, negated by death ward. The second brings him to zero, negated by being half-orc. The third attack kills him. (Contingency isn't on the sorcerer or cleric list, yes? Wizard exclusive.)

The Long Death monk can stay up for 12 consecutive hits in the same round. Mariliths, eat your heart out.

I agree but I think we should focus on layering passive sources and reduce the resource draw on the build. monk is definitely the best. 20 monk seems to at the moment have the most in the tank and does not require actions. but this draws heavily on resources, I would prefer to move towards a build the has less of a draw on resources and runs more passively. I don't think that build will outclass the monk protection but it would increase its flexibility

[Segev]

Maybe work some Moon Druid in there; the wild shape bonus hp aren't EXACTLY stopping you at 1 hp of damage, but it's two more "packages" of hit points every short rest.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe Long Death Monk with some Barbarian would do the trick?

[Amdy_vill]

I think some good points have been raised and cockroaches should move more in the way of generiozed protections.

[Unoriginal]

I think some good points have been raised and cockroaches should move more in the way of generiozed protections.

Ancestral Barbarian is pretty good at that.

[Segev]

Ancestral Barbarian is pretty good at that.

So is bear totem barbarian.

If it weren't such a terrible build combination otherwise, Aberrant Mind Sorcerer + Bear Totem Barbarian could get you resistance to every damage type while raging.

[Amdy_vill]

So is bear totem barbarian.

If it weren't such a terrible build combination otherwise, Aberrant Mind Sorcerer + Bear Totem Barbarian could get you resistance to every damage type while raging.

its one level and we got a free level right now

[Segev]

its one level and we got a free level right now

Sadly for this build, it's 6 levels of Aberrant Mind Sorcerer to get to Psychic Defenses, which is the feature that gives them resistance to psychic damage.

[Amdy_vill]

Sadly for this build, it's 6 levels of Aberrant Mind Sorcerer to get to Psychic Defenses, which is the feature that gives them resistance to psychic damage.

oh, so no then

[Unoriginal]

So is bear totem barbarian.

If it weren't such a terrible build combination otherwise, Aberrant Mind Sorcerer + Bear Totem Barbarian could get you resistance to every damage type while raging.

Bear Totem doesn't have features to protect others.

[TyGuy]

No love for zealot. So after all those mulligans if you still manage to go down. You get resurrected for free.

[Thunderous Mojo]

I like Half Orc Long Death Monk with Spore Druid. The 6th Level Fungal Infestation ability of the Spore Druid allows you to reanimate a small or medium Humanoid or Beast as a Zombie with 1HP. Knocking the Zombie to zero hit points, yourself, allows you to use Touch of Death, (Wis modifier + Monk level THP).
Quite a few monk abilities will work while you are Wildshaped, and Symbiotic Entity is a good alternative as an usage of Wildshape for a Monk/Druid multi-class character.

Your name should be Gregor Samsa..and you should alter the Barkskin spell to be the Beatleshell spell instead. 🥸

[Segev]

No love for zealot. So after all those mulligans if you still manage to go down. You get resurrected for free.

Having a Zealot and a Cleric in a level 5+ party has got to be a fun time. The Zealot just won't. Stay. Down.

[stoutstien]

Having a Zealot and a Cleric in a level 5+ party has got to be a fun time. The Zealot just won't. Stay. Down.

Depends on the value of gold and availability of costly spell components in a given campaign. IMO and by what I've seen, the subclass features that are hailed as really good for the zealot are mediocre but the 6th and 10th lv ones are really solid and actually make it one of the better barb options.

Keeping rage up is a much bigger factor on the overall impact of the class than saving some pocket change that is most likely the resulting cost of losing rage in the first place.

[nickl_2000]

Having a Zealot and a Cleric in a level 5+ party has got to be a fun time. The Zealot just won't. Stay. Down.

Heck no, Zealot Barbarian and a Druid. Every night that the Druid has a spell slot left the Barbarian gets killed and Reincarnated as something else. You never know what they will be tomorrow!

[Segev]

Heck no, Zealot Barbarian and a Druid. Every night that the Druid has a spell slot left the Barbarian gets killed and Reincarnated as something else. You never know what they will be tomorrow!

Depends whether you want the Zealot getting back up mid-fight despite dying. :smalltongue:

[Wizard_Lizard]

Well Half orc Zealot Barb/Undead Warlock/Phoenix sorc could be... interesting....