Swashbuckler class advice

[Beldar]

Hi all,

In Pathfinder 1.0, the swashbuckler class is an intriguing choice for an upcoming game starting at 1st level, but I'm not very familiar with the best feats for it, race, and which "Light or one-handed piercing weapons" are best.
I thought I'd ask the experts here how to get the most out of it.

Also, the 3rd level Deed a Swashbuckler gets where you add your level to damage sounds nice, but it says you can't use your other hand for another weapon, a two-handed weapon (unless you can find one that's still Light), or a shield except a buckler.
What, in that case, is the best use for the other hand?

Thanks.

For reference, Swashbuckler is found here:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/Swashbuckler/#TOC-Deeds

[Kurald Galain]

I thought I'd ask the experts here how to get the most out of it.
Since your panache recharges on a critical hit, the obvious choice is a rapier.


What, in that case, is the best use for the other hand?
Spellcasting, actually. Either you carry a bunch of potions or gimmick items for use during combat, or multiclass to any class that can buff itself. Magus is a decent choice here, as it lets you make an extra attack per round.

[Gnaeus]

1. Note that swashbuckler is not a power class. It’s a fighter class that is generally worse at damage and tanking than fighter. Not telling you what to play, but in any ranking of PF classes it will be bottom 10, maybe bottom 5.

2. If you plan to go straight swashbuckler or at any rate not take a casting class, look at accelerated drinker trait. That way if you start a round with a potion in hand, you can make an attack and buff or heal.

[Beldar]

"Bottom 10, maybe bottom 5"?
Interesting. I had wondered how well it worked out in practice, and that's a pretty definitive answer.

Anyone have a link to a general ranking of the Pathfinder 1.0 classes?

I'm looking for something different than my usual, which pretty much means a non-caster.
Thanks.

[Kurald Galain]

Anyone have a link to a general ranking of the Pathfinder 1.0 classes?
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?614822-Updated-Tier-List-for-Pathfinder

The issue with swashbuckler is that it deals pretty good damage, but doesn't really do anything else besides that (and there are classes that go well beyond "pretty good" damage). However, parry&riposte is a very good ability, not to mention hilarious; and it has no weapon restrictions. So what you can do, is take swashbuckler/1 barbarian/19, and parry/riposte with your greatsword.... :smallbiggrin:

[Seerow]

"Bottom 10, maybe bottom 5"?
Interesting. I had wondered how well it worked out in practice, and that's a pretty definitive answer.

Anyone have a link to a general ranking of the Pathfinder 1.0 classes?

I'm looking for something different than my usual, which pretty much means a non-caster.
Thanks.

Generally any non-caster is going to fall closer to the bottom of that list than the top. 3rd party options (specifically Path of War and Spheres of Might) can help a lot.

With or without those options though, my general go-to is a properly Archetyped out Fighter. With no 3rd party options, Martial Master is a great deal (floating feats to pick up what you need when you need it), and is generally compatible with a bunch of other Archetypes, including Lore Warden (there's two variants floating around, the original is strictly better than the second version that was printed, but both will get you some extra skills and other perks) or Mutation Warrior (get an Alchemist mutagen for some potent self buffing).

With the third party options, both Myrmidon (Path of War) and Coiled Blade (Spheres of Might) are fantastic, and are even compatible with each other if you wanted to get up to some real shenaniganry.

[Firebug]

I like the Swashbuckler as the base of a thrower build.
2 level dip in Far Strike Monk (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Far%20Strik e%20Monk) for good saves, all the bonus feats and a pseudo-Rapid Shot(flurry).
The rest into Flying Blade Swashbuckler (https://aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Swashbuckler%20Fly ing%20Blade) with a dagger. Not as good a crit range as a rapier, but good enough. Don't bother with Parry and Ripose, use Disruptive Counter instead. It's only an AoO(parry and riposte is an immediate and an AoO) so as long as you have enough with Combat Reflexes, you can basically hit back anything that tries to hit you in melee. Swashmaster's Flair (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Swordmaster%27 s%20Flair) in your offhand for when things have Reach (or whenever you want to trigger more AoO from movement).
Startoss Style (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Startoss%20Style)/Comet (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Startoss%20Comet)/Shower (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Startoss%20Shower) for damage and spreading the damage around a bit. Martial Focus and Ricochet Toss (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ricochet%20Toss) so you only need to enchant one dagger. Fortuitous (https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Fortuitous) enchant to get extra attacks when you get an AoO. Agile (https://aonprd.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Agile) for a bit more melee damage (dex to damage).

Basically, the idea is to walk up to a Melee enemy and throw a dagger in their face(Startoss, or Flurry if you are already next to someone). They take an AoO on you, since you used a ranged attack in melee, and you respond with Disruptive Counter and stab them with your dagger. Twice, because Fortuitous. If you flurried and they have Combat Reflexes, when you provoke again and they attack you again, you stab them again. And again. If you hit, they are at a -4 to hit you for a round (until the end of their turn). Wisdom to AC if you want to flurry, so a high point buy is better, but not required. You just need Dex for accuracy and Cha for Panache (or stack up Plume of Panache (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Plume%20of%20P anache)) and a non-negative Str since that also applies to damage. But if you spread your stats a little thin, then at high levels getting the +6 to 2 or all ability scores helps more.

Personal experience, its solid from 1-10 and starts falling behind 11+. It does damage well, and has decent skills, but post 10 you just need more. You can mitigate some by spending gold though. Mobility(fly, teleport), UMD, etc.

[Gnaeus]

Generally any non-caster is going to fall closer to the bottom of that list than the top. 3rd party options (specifically Path of War and Spheres of Might) can help a lot.

With or without those options though, my general go-to is a properly Archetyped out Fighter. With no 3rd party options, Martial Master is a great deal (floating feats to pick up what you need when you need it), and is generally compatible with a bunch of other Archetypes, including Lore Warden (there's two variants floating around, the original is strictly better than the second version that was printed, but both will get you some extra skills and other perks) or Mutation Warrior (get an Alchemist mutagen for some potent self buffing).

With the third party options, both Myrmidon (Path of War) and Coiled Blade (Spheres of Might) are fantastic, and are even compatible with each other if you wanted to get up to some real shenaniganry.

I generally agree. I would add that PF’s design philosophy added a bunch of half or 1/3 melee classes, like the aforementioned magus but also stuff like inquisitor, warpriest, bloodrager, skald, alchemist etc, that all outperform swashbuckler. And THEN they redesigned some of the other muggles in the unchained series, or gave them archetypes that were just way better than the base class. Even swashbuckler’s child, gunslinger, comes out better, as at least a superior damage class. Swashbuckler doesn’t have the skills to be a Skillmonkey (especially with class abilities suggesting dumping Int). Lacks the fort and armor to be a top main tank. Isn’t great at battlefield control. Most of its better class abilities are just to compensate for enforced bad weapon/armor choices, but the classes you would compare it with (slayer, brawler, unchained Barbarian or Rogue, even fighter) have both better weapons/armor and their own abilities to add hit/damage. It’s not really clear what it is supposed to do that a fighter can’t do better, and a lot of swashbuckler builds (like aforementioned swashbuckler 1/Barbarian 19) are only dips of 1-3 levels. I agree that the casters top the list. But most of the non-casters are also generally better.