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Fruan
2007-11-07, 11:34 PM
So, Undead only need to take fort saves if they're also applicable to objects. Blindness/Deafness allows a fort save to resist. This save is *not* tagged "object".

So... you can't blind a vampire? What now? Really?

SadisticFishing
2007-11-07, 11:35 PM
It doesn't need eyes to see, much like it doesn't need a bladder to pee. Or, well, to pee at all.

The_Snark
2007-11-07, 11:36 PM
Blindness/Deafness
Necromancy
Level: Brd 2, Clr 3, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One living creature
Duration: Permanent (D)

Nope, you can't. You can with Glitterdust, though.

Fruan
2007-11-07, 11:38 PM
Nope, you can't. You can with Glitterdust, though.

Hah! Missed that living bit. I guess it is really intended for you to not be able to use it on undead.

Which strikes me as seriously weird, but I guess I can live with it.

Peregrine
2007-11-08, 02:42 AM
Vampires are the exception, though. They're conceived of as particularly lifelike undead. A skeleton, a ghost, or even a zombie should be perfectly immune to blindness, because they don't have the processes of life that transmit signals to the brain. You can then port this back to vampires and have it make a bit more sense.

If it helps, picture a badass vampire who's missing one eye (no eyepatch, of course). Now imagine its other eye being covered... and it can still see you. It doesn't need a physical eyeball...

The_Snark
2007-11-08, 02:54 AM
Except that skeletons and the like can be blinded by Glitterdust, Sunbeam, and similar effects.

The Blindness spell is a necromancy spell, though, which means it probably has to do with negative energy. Presumably, it works by infusing the person's eyes/ears with negative energy or some such, which wouldn't do anything to hinder a vampire.

Peregrine
2007-11-08, 11:02 PM
I almost went on a (mostly tangential) ramble about "magical senses" in my above post, but then scrapped it. But I guess it's relevant again with The Snark pointing out spells that do blind undead. Unlike blindness (which as Snark says is necromancy, or the 'does nasty things to biology' school), these spells actually serve to block signals from reaching the senses, rather than attacking the physical tissue that processes those signals.

Glitterdust allows a Will save to 'filter out' the magical interference with your senses, whether those senses be mundane or magical. Sunbeam just plain overwhelms the senses, unless you can get your eyes out of the way with a Reflex save.

So yeah. Undead should be considered to have magical senses that don't require physical organs to operate, because it just plain makes sense -- and given that, so do these spells. :smallsmile: