Need advice for managing a large group (8-9 players)

[tchntm43]

When we started the campaign, we had 4. After the first adventure, it was sometimes 4 and sometimes 5 (one player was unreliable in his interest in playing and is mostly playing because his mom is one of the other 4). After a long covid break, we've been looking at playing on roll20, and I was told by one of the players that both the aforementioned unreliable player and his mom weren't really interested in playing anymore, and since that brought us down to 3, I decided to reach out to a friend, who invited 2 more friends. This made 6, which still seemed manageable. But it turned out that I was given false information, and actually the two players had not even been asked if they wanted to keep playing, it was just assumed by the player who told me (he's in a relationship with the mom so it was reasonable of me to take his word at it). So now we're up to 7-8, and that same player also mentioned that his friend wants to play and he offered to let him join. At this point, I had a concern about there only being one character in the party with healing, so I agreed to let that friend of his join as long as he can contribute some kind of healing component, ideally a cleric, because otherwise there will probably not be enough healing spells to go around.

So that's where things are now. 8, maybe 9 players. My chief concern is that every minor decision is going to take an hour for them to agree on. I'm also concerned that, in order to build encounters that aren't a breeze for the party, I need to make them difficult such that whoever becomes the target of the monster's attack has a much higher and unfair risk of dying.

One thing I've considered doing to help with decision making is designate one player the "party captain" and the other players would agree that he helps facilitate decision-making and ultimately relays the party decision to me.

Feeling a little overwhelmed and hoping to get some advice from others here.

[Amnestic]

One of the other players DMs as well and you split into two groups of 4.

[Tawmis]

I DM for two groups of six and one group of seven.

It can for sure, be chaotic. But, it's entirely possible. The biggest issue will not be decisions - but imitative - taking awhile to make it around the party, and those who are waiting - getting distracted (especially in a virtual environment).

I would strongly recommend - have everyone roll initiative. Give everyone a minute to think about what they're doing - encourage players who are next - to have their actions ready. Yes, it could change based on what the player before them does (for example, the Wizard who is second in init is going to attack Orc_A, however, the Paladin before the Wizard kills Orc_A, and now it's the Wizard's turn!) - initially give people time to figure out what they're going to do - but tell them, their decisions in init will eventually be timed (get an hourglass/timer) in order to keep the combat moving.

As for other decisions - a party captain is a good idea, but some people in a larger group - may not always agree. So be ready for that.
(For example, in one of my games five of the players are cool with pooling all their gold - there's one player who refuses and wants to hold his own gold).

For encounters - remember - you're the DM. Is the party going through the orcs too quickly? Up the health of a few of them and explain how these orcs look tougher. There's no problem (in my eyes) fudging a creature's health up (or down, for that matter) to create enjoyable encounters.

[tchntm43]

One of the other players DMs as well and you split into two groups of 4.

I thought about this, the main issues are that certain players would prefer to be in groups with other players and there's no way to split them up where they would be happy with the arrangement. Also, most of them are first-time players in this campaign and not prepared to DM.

There has been a suggestion offered that I might run with... Split into 2 groups of 5, where one player plays in both groups with different characters, and I DM both groups on different days. So we'd keep the original group of 5 intact, and have a new group of 5 made up mostly of the 4 new players plus one player who is familiar with the world the game is taking place in. This also allows for the interesting possibility that actions by one group might affect the game world in ways reflected in the other group.

Hm.

[da newt]

I have experience as a player in a large party (6-9 PCs). You will find herding cats is one issue (so many Players), and a large party who has any tactical/build skill is surprisingly capable. The action economy of that many PCs is a force multiplier.

Challenging combat either involves a really buff BBEG or many opponents. This leads to long and complicated encounters and (especially playing remotely) some players struggling to pay attention. With the increase in total party capability, when the DM counters with increasingly powerful foes, PC death becomes more likely too.

With a good group of folks and cooperation, it can be a blast - without it can be a real drag. Expect a skilled party of 7+ to walk all over most written encounters (which assume 4 or 5 average PCs).

I've seen almost 1 hour to get through 1 round of a boss battle with many minions ... and that's just tier 2 levels of complexity.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have experience as a player in a large party (6-9 PCs). You will find herding cats is one issue (so many Players), and a large party who has any tactical/build skill is surprisingly capable. The action economy of that many PCs is a force multiplier.

Challenging combat either involves a really buff BBEG or many opponents. This leads to long and complicated encounters and (especially playing remotely) some players struggling to pay attention. With the increase in total party capability, when the DM counters with increasingly powerful foes, PC death becomes more likely too.

With a good group of folks and cooperation, it can be a blast - without it can be a real drag. Expect a skilled party of 7+ to walk all over most written encounters (which assume 4 or 5 average PCs).

I've seen almost 1 hour to get through 1 round of a boss battle with many minions ... and that's just tier 2 levels of complexity. I dm for a 7 player group, 5 or 6 of whom usually can show up. Someone takes over running one of the absent PCs. When all 7 are there (it is actually easier in person than over the net) I have to get a bit stern about "be quiet until it's your turn because I Can't See Who Is Talking" and "When it's your turn, make a decision or you dodge." That last one finally got two of our players to quit being the millstone around our necks.

I also assign out of combat initiative based on INT score for social/problem solving situations. Otherwise, it devolves into two or three different conversations.

Seating arrangement: only seen this work once when I was DM recently, saw it a lot in AD&D days.

Each time the party rolls initiative have them arrange themselves, in their chairs, around the table clockwise (highest score on the DM's left). Weirdly, the simple mechanic of going in around in a circle and back to the DM seems to speed things up. Yes, they will crack jokes about playing 'musical chairs' but something about that semi circle/circular order speeds things up.

Roll all monster initiative at once, or in groups of 5 monsters, Bosses always get their own initiative.

Minions: one or two big ones, not a lot of little ones.

Lastly: go back to BX days and AD&D 1e days and have a Caller. The players choose who is caller for the evening, it can rotate. That speeds up play, particularly out of combat.

[tchntm43]

Well, the whole group is adamant in wanting to play as one group. Let the insanity begin!


I also assign out of combat initiative based on INT score for social/problem solving situations. Otherwise, it devolves into two or three different conversations.

I like this. Will implement.


Seating arrangement: only seen this work once when I was DM recently, saw it a lot in AD&D days.

Each time the party rolls initiative have them arrange themselves, in their chairs, around the table clockwise (highest score on the DM's left). Weirdly, the simple mechanic of going in around in a circle and back to the DM seems to speed things up. Yes, they will crack jokes about playing 'musical chairs' but something about that semi circle/circular order speeds things up.

I wonder if there is a way to rearrange video windows in roll20. I have never used roll20 so I'm going to have to learn that.


Lastly: go back to BX days and AD&D 1e days and have a Caller. The players choose who is caller for the evening, it can rotate. That speeds up play, particularly out of combat.
Yeah, we're already nominating someone to be that role.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

[KorvinStarmast]

I wonder if there is a way to rearrange video windows in roll20. I have never used roll20 so I'm going to have to learn that. Yes, you can grab the name tag with the three little lines on it and move it around on your screen. I do this all the time when I use r0ll20.

Yeah, we're already nominating someone to be that role.
Sweet, they'll decide if they want to rotate that duty.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Best of luck, and have fun! :smallsmile:

[Zhorn]

Yeah, looks like the main points I would recommend have already been covered, though it bears repeating;

Maintain initiative at all times.
Does not need to be a rolled order, just start off going around the room at first, and then just hold onto the last order that was rolled each time from then on. Check in with each player regularly to keep them in the game. "What does your character do" "How does your character respond" "While this is happening..." etc. Ideal players will stay engaged while it is not their turn and can maintain attention for long stretches... but not everyone is an ideal player.

Turn timer
Like above, it's about making sure you can cycle through the whole group quickly and regularly. Turn time and group size multiply out into the amount of time between each player getting to do something with their character. Keep each turn short and tight, and emphasize to players that 'umm' and 'ahh' when their turn starts to use the time between their turns to plan out what they are doing.

Be strict on chatter
Same as it is for smaller group makes it truer for larger groups. I'm a player in a group at the moment where the DM is less strict on this and rounds really stretch out in time. You don't need to be a tyrant, but if you get lax the group will drift. Maintain firm command of the table.

Group minions in initiative
Lots of minions in combat can slow it down, but small pockets of multiple of the same type sharing a single turn can function the same way as a single creature with multi attack.

And finally, keep looking for a DM amongst the players for a potential split into two smaller groups
I do think big groups can work and I hope yours does. But for practicality two groups of 3-5 players will give everyone more game time, more DM attention, and more opportunities for their characters to shine.

[arnin77]

One thing I’ve noticed with bigger groups is when a group decision takes too long. If that happens you could just take the two things they are trying to decide on and get everyone to vote.

[heavyfuel]

+1 to split the group.

Yeah, it sucks, but D&D isn't really meant to be played by more than 5 players at once, and even that is pushing it.

It gets obnoxiously difficult to balance encounters and combats drag on forever because you have 20 turns in a round. Plus, it's almost impossible to give everyone a decent time in the spotlight without ay of the other 7 people getting distracted and then distracting others.

If you do manage 10 people (DM+9players), I'd even suggest splitting into 3 groups instead of 2. Maybe whoever is DMing one group can also play at another.

[tchntm43]

As I said, I couldn't convince them to split. They all want to play together.

One thing that I think I'm going to do though... No matter how hard I try to line up people's schedules so that we can all play on the same day, with this many people it will probably be rare to get all 9. So when I create the encounters and treasure, I think I'm going to create them as a set of 3. There will be options for 4-5, 6-7, and 8-9 characters.

[MoiMagnus]

One thing I’ve noticed with bigger groups is when a group decision takes too long. If that happens you could just take the two things they are trying to decide on and get everyone to vote.

Approval voting works better IME, especially if you have indecisive players.

After peoples have suggested few solution and the debate takes too long, the DM stops the debate and state "We vote, you can vote for multiple solutions. Here is the first solution, who approves? Here is the second solution, who approves? Here is the third. Etc"
When there is a clear preferred option, the option is chosen. When there is a tie, someone will likely change their mind and break the tie.