Variant scounting: Not just a check

[qube]

Some time ago (in the age of 3.5) I made a system for scouting. And when I recently told my friend about it, he really liked it, and asked to put it on mail. So I though ... why not share it with this great community? (and hey, if you have remarks, feel free).
The party I used this with are all people who love to spend significant time in a session making up battleplans and such; so yu're DMming from that kind of party, I can only suggest you try it :)

It's a two step system, combining a type of telephone game, with memory-checks.



Step 0: decide to scout.

During this phase the party talks it over with the scout, informing the scout what information they want, etc ...
The phase ends when the scout character leaves.


Step 1: The scouting

Go with the scout player in the next room (note the scout player should have a d20, and his stealth score).

The player can decide how far he wants to be from the enemy camp (or whatever) and then rolls a stealth check accordingly. The player can then ask you questions. You answer truthfully, or note that from this distance you can't see that. After the questions, the player can change distances and ask more questions, or return to camp. Changing distance requires another stealth check;

Distances:

far away. [very easy stealth check]. Your hiding spot is far enough outside the camp so that the enemy can't easily spot you and you've got a good overview, but details are hard to spot.
adjacent the camp [medium check]. You peer though a crack in the wall or something. Your spot forced you to actively sneak and evade the gaze of some guards. Your spot allows you to spot some details, but only from a certain area.
inside the camp [very hard check]. Now you're actively sneaking, evading guards and other people in the camp.
This allows you to ask one specific question. Any more and you'll sure to be captured. After a successful check & question, you automatically end adjacent the camp.


if a stealth checks fail, the alarm is raised, and the scout retreats (maybe you can decide on a free attack made against the scout, but consider the a failed check shouldn't result in a seriously harmed scout. Unless there was some serious bad fortune (like a crit), the only real bad things that a failed check give are (a) no more questions, and (b) the enemy is now on a heightend allert.

Likewise, if you feel the scout takes too much time (even if you're far away from the camp, it's not like you spend hours unseen casing the joint) you can ask for additional stealth checks.


Step 2: Informing the party

The scout returns and informs the party. The party might have questions that the scout hasn't gotten the answer to; because he didn't ask, or forgot the answer.

Now the scout can make a intelligence or wisdom check (does he remember, was he, dusring scouting, wise enough to pay attention to X). The DC starts at 10 and increases with every question. The same question can't be asked again. The amount by which the check increases depends on the time it took for the scout to return to the camp. (read: you can decide this yourself. I'd advise +1 for first time RPs to +5 for D&Ders with years of experience)

Once the DC surpasses the modifier of the player with 20, this system ends, and the party has all possible information scouting would yield them.

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Sample:

The party decides Bob should scout the orc camp before they make their plan of attack. They agree, and talk it over what Bob should ask. When everything's said and done, Bob goes with the DM.

Bob decides to first look at hte camp from afar (his check succeeds), and asks the DM how many orcs there are ("about 2 dozen"), and what they wield ("the guards wield shields and axes, for the others you're too far").
Bob decides to scout closer (a second succesful stealth check), and asks again (most orcs carry two hadned melee weapons. One of two have a couple of javalins). Bob asks what the leader is wearing, but you decide the leader is in another part of the camp.
Bob decides to try and infiltrate the camp to take a look at the leader ... but fails his check.
Bob runs away, and considering he was trying to get in the camp, you decide one of the orcs is able to throw a javalin at Bob before he's out of reach), but misses.

Bob comes back to the table and tells his friends (though he accidently forgets to tell them about the javalins). The party asks Bob if he noticed what orc tribe they were - as the players have good standing with the Bloodteeth tribe. Bob doesn't know, so he decides to roll a wisdom check. He gets DC 10 and you tell him, that this was the Axegrinder tribe. They ask Bob if he found the tent where the orcs keep their weapons, but Bob fails his DC 15 check.

The party decides they have enough info, and decide on a plan of attack. Bob as a +2 modifier, and decides not to waste a free roll, and asks what weaponry the guards had on them (wooden shields, battle axes, and each had a sling).

[heavyfuel]

I don't really see how that's a variant, especially in the 3.5 era where there were penalties to Spot/Listen based on distance. Not seeing something because you are too far isn't a variant in 3.5, it's how the game works.

Also, asking for multiple rolls in 5e basically ensures fail at some point because of Bounded Accuracy. In 3.5 it was easy for a specialized character to have Hide/Move Silently bonus (or any skill bonus for that matter) so high you basically had to be out in the open for someone to spot you. In 5e, rolling multiple dice is a death sentence.

As far as the "raising the alarm" instead of "rolling initiative" part - which may be what you mean when you say it's a "variant" - I have to say it feels very "video-gamey". I dislike using that term, but I do think it applies here. In a video-game it makes sense that enemies will always raise the alarm because that's how the game-designers wanted gameplay to be. In D&D, it doesn't make sense that every single NPC will always choose to raise the alarm in every occasion.

The second part of the system is nice, but it hinges on the first part working as is, meaning it would only be used if the enemies chose to raise an alarm instead of, say, charging the Rogue.

[qube]

I don't really see how that's a variant, especially in the 3.5 era where there were penalties to Spot/Listen based on distance. Not seeing something because you are too far isn't a variant in 3.5, it's how the game works.
I'm not sure I agree. I presume you're refering to the -1 on spot checks per 10 ft distance. You'll notice this this system is significantly based on naration (are you close, are you far, etc ... ). (the end result might be simelar, but considering it uses different rules ... that's what makes it a variant).

Likewise, for example, in RAW, be it 3.5 or 5E, a failed check probbably should result in 24 initiative checks, and - half a round later - one very, very dead scout (you seem to presume it's a rogue, but it could be a ranger, or any character that fancy's himself stealthy that thinks it's a good idea to sneak closer to the enemy camp to gather intel) . As you note yourself.


meaning it would only be used if the enemies chose to raise an alarm instead of, say, charging the Rogue.

In this variant, "Charging the scout" would be fall under the free attack. For example, "The orcs run after Bob while he tries to run away, and one of them hit's 'm in the back".
In my humble oppinion/experience ... if you play games where, if you fail, the orcs charge the scout ... that will happen once, and non of your players will ever want to scout again. Players typically don't want 'gathering info' to be a life-or-death roll.

This provides a (hopefully enjoyable) framework, where characters can gather info; and while failure has some risks - some damage, enemy's on alert - it's not going to punish the scout by throwing 'm in a 1-v-24 slaughter.


Also, asking for multiple rolls in 5e basically ensures fail at some point because of Bounded Accuracy. In 3.5 it was easy for a specialized character to have Hide/Move Silently bonus (or any skill bonus for that matter) so high you basically had to be out in the open for someone to spot you. In 5e, rolling multiple dice is a death sentence.
"ensures fail at some point" is how the initial system was designed as well. Just like rules for holding your breath, it's not inherently bad that rules for roaming around enemy territory, are designed in such a way, you eventually fail.

As the sample displays: eventually Bob fails his check; and likewise, the memory checks with increasing DC incidate, those eventually result in automatic failures. Oppositely, Bob could have decided to stay outside, or even far away.