Boons and Failings of a party of half-casters

[Galithar]

I have a campaign planned for the future that is full of half-casters. No full-casters and no martial planned.

What, if anything, is this composition going to make the party particularly good or bad at.

Artillerist Artificer
Armorer Artificer
Gloomstalker Ranger
Undecided Oath Paladin (leaning Ancients)

On the plus side I feel like High level play would be more interesting. I may not have to throw huge deadly fights at them to get them to break a sweat. Without the high level spells I don't have to worry about any Wish or Simulacrum shenanigans, but they still have enough magic to do some cool things.

[Contrast]

From the martial side, you're fine. All you really need is ideally more than one person who is willing to stand around in melee range of the enemy without immediately dying and some damage and you have both of those things.

From the spellcaster side, I'd say the main difference will be that control spells will come online much later so there are probably going to be a lot less combats solved by a single spell and consequently a lot more facetanking. There is also somewhat less scope for AoE so hordes of enemies may be more of a problem.

One of the key things that stands out to me is that at high level moving around is going to remain an issue for this party. Amusingly, you won't unlock Fly until level 9 but then at level 10 your artificers will have access to Winged Boots so will possibly suddenly start flying everywhere. You aren't going to be teleporting or planeshifting or tree striding or whatever though so without magic items/allies, this party is going to be walking everywhere, forever.

[Galithar]

Some of that I have plans to address. My world is an Eberron rip-off and so them getting an airship for overland travel is a high probability event.

I am really looking forward to not having to deal with the high level "I teleport directly to the destination" of higher level magic. I always feel like it forces the DM to hide the destination, get very political (a weak point of my DMing), or succumb to the inevitability of them just bamfing directly to the BBEGs door the second they identify where that is.

And I know high level magic isn't always so "I win" as some people make it out to be, but those people are usually very much like me. They have less experience and so it becomes a chore to develop appropriate challenges for your party.

I think you're right about the struggle with mobs, but the artillerist in the party is actually a very good answer to that. It may not be the most powerful, but they have access to a nearly at will source of AoE damage. Plus they eventually get the staple of AoE damage in Fireball.

Control will definitely be a bit lacking, but it also means things like Web and Entangle might see use at later levels. With so many low level spell slots between them I am hoping they'll feel good throwing those out even if they only catch one or two bad guys.

I will definitely keep a close tab on how much I throw at them at time because without the battlefield control that normally falls to the full caster they may not be able to handle a Hard-Deadly encounter of multiple small monsters that a full caster might have made into a joke combat.

Anyways thanks for the reply!

[OldTrees1]

Some encounters will have a higher CR due to the party having delayed access to mobility/remedies.

Consider the Paladin.
1st level: Cure 1 poison/disease per day.
5th level: Cure minor conditions.
9th level: Remove Curse, Revivify, Dispel Magic
13th level: Death Ward
14th level: Cleansing Touch is a weaker more accurate Dispel Magic.
00th level: Greater Restoration is never available.

With the exception of poison/disease, all other aliments just increased their challenge. Petrification for example is not something the Paladin will cure.

[Warpiglet-7]

Some of that I have plans to address. My world is an Eberron rip-off and so them getting an airship for overland travel is a high probability event.

I am really looking forward to not having to deal with the high level "I teleport directly to the destination" of higher level magic. I always feel like it forces the DM to hide the destination, get very political (a weak point of my DMing), or succumb to the inevitability of them just bamfing directly to the BBEGs door the second they identify where that is.

And I know high level magic isn't always so "I win" as some people make it out to be, but those people are usually very much like me. They have less experience and so it becomes a chore to develop appropriate challenges for your party.

I think you're right about the struggle with mobs, but the artillerist in the party is actually a very good answer to that. It may not be the most powerful, but they have access to a nearly at will source of AoE damage. Plus they eventually get the staple of AoE damage in Fireball.

Control will definitely be a bit lacking, but it also means things like Web and Entangle might see use at later levels. With so many low level spell slots between them I am hoping they'll feel good throwing those out even if they only catch one or two bad guys.

I will definitely keep a close tab on how much I throw at them at time because without the battlefield control that normally falls to the full caster they may not be able to handle a Hard-Deadly encounter of multiple small monsters that a full caster might have made into a joke combat.

Anyways thanks for the reply!

Just an observer of the conversation but I was thinking the same thing.

Some of the “limitations” sound like fun.

[greenstone]

My experience with GMing a party of half caster (and multiclassed) characters is that at levels 5 and 6, the lack of dispel magic, counterspell and AoE hurt them badly.

The first lightning bolt that hit them did a lot of damage, as did the second. Same with fireball. For their part, they were limited to single-target attacks and spells, so every time they came across large groups of foes, things got tense quickly.

As a GM I had to be careful, as even a single caster foe was more of a threat than I thought.

[OldTrees1]

My experience with GMing a party of half caster (and multiclassed) characters is that at levels 5 and 6, the lack of dispel magic, counterspell and AoE hurt them badly.

The first lightning bolt that hit them did a lot of damage, as did the second. Same with fireball. For their part, they were limited to single-target attacks and spells, so every time they came across large groups of foes, things got tense quickly.

As a GM I had to be careful, as even a single caster foe was more of a threat than I thought.

They have an Ancients Paladin. That should address the enemy AoEs nicely at 7th+.

Good point about large groups of foes when the party is limited to single target attacks.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I kind of like it too. I think not having access to high level spells will keep the characters grounded for longer. That said, the Paladin can still channel divinity on hordes of undead and fiends. Also hanging out in fireball formation is fine and provided they have magical weapons the amount of single target damage that won't be resisted is going to be great; so I think they will be better than average with few higher CR opponents. Dragon fear= immune. Resistant to everything under the sun= not a worry.

[Dork_Forge]

Honestly I think this party will be just fine and a bunch of fun to DM for:

-You don't have to pay as much attention to spells, this can be a bit blegh when you overlook a spell and suddenly your encounter is trivialised

-They have a very, very high recovery potential since all can access Cure Wounds, the Artillerist can access the protector turret and the Paladin gets Lay on Hands

-Personally I don't understand the mob worries, they can all access varying degrees of aoe and most of them get Extra Attack. I can't think of a single encounter that not having a Fireball on hand for would really change that much (and so what if it takes them a little longer to get through an encounter, they're a tougher party than if they had a Wizard or Sorcerer in anyway).

-Overland travel is fun, my party of (now) 13th level travel everywhere mundanely (they have an 11th level Bard as full caster) and they use it as opportunity to roleplay together, with their expanding NPC cohort and have fun with random encounters and every day problems (like their cart and carriage falling dozens of feet and smashing whilst no replacements were to be had).

[Angelalex242]

If you're seriously worried about the party getting chewed up by spells, give that Paladin his holy avenger early. Advantage on saves, +5 to saves, and half damage from spells should prevent a lot of bad things.

[stoutstien]

I have a campaign planned for the future that is full of half-casters. No full-casters and no martial planned.

What, if anything, is this composition going to make the party particularly good or bad at.

Artillerist Artificer
Armorer Artificer
Gloomstalker Ranger
Undecided Oath Paladin (leaning Ancients)

On the plus side I feel like High level play would be more interesting. I may not have to throw huge deadly fights at them to get them to break a sweat. Without the high level spells I don't have to worry about any Wish or Simulacrum shenanigans, but they still have enough magic to do some cool things.

I wouldn't sweat it all that much. 5e is set up in such a way you could have a party with zero casting ability and they will be fine honestly. Sure they will have some of the big impact spell like counterspell and teleport come online later or maybe they never get them but in the end they are just one way to address challenges not the only way.

The party you have listed is going to have a lot of defensive capacity. Saves and AC are going to be top tier and all the major skills are covered. Magical weapon damage in spades and information gathering is pretty easy with smart infusion picks. AoE damage is good enough and single target damage is on the better side of average.

Honestly unless you have a gate in the game that needs a particular high level spell to overcome I don't see any issues.

[MrStabby]

You should be fine, and it looks like fun.

There are a couple of things to watch out for though.

1) Be careful with things like massed archers. Massed mobs in melee are a bit less of an issue with good manuvering and good use of terrain but archers can tend to be tougher to avoid.

2) Attrition will be a bit different. In additon to the bucket-loads of healing you are going to (probably) have characters with above average AC and HP.

3) You will need to find the tactical challenges - normally a lot of fights kind of revolve round identifying and exploiting weak points in the party and trying to get into the back lines. There are no weak points, just tough and tougher points. And every character can potentially cast a healing spell to return a downed ally to the fight.

4) It may take a while for the party to find their appropriate roles/spells. There is a lot of overlap between them - a lot of casters knowing a lot of spells but spread between few spell levels. The opportunity for finding spells that are both good and unique is limited.

5) Loot is a bit congested. There are a lot of potential items not usable by the party and a lot of competition for things like good medium armour.

[KorvinStarmast]

I have a campaign planned for the future that is full of half-casters. No full-casters and no martial planned.

What, if anything, is this composition going to make the party particularly good or bad at.

Artillerist Artificer
Armorer Artificer
Gloomstalker Ranger
Undecided Oath Paladin (leaning Ancients)

On the plus side I feel like High level play would be more interesting. I may not have to throw huge deadly fights at them to get them to break a sweat. Without the high level spells I don't have to worry about any Wish or Simulacrum shenanigans, but they still have enough magic to do some cool things.
Hmm, with that as a framework, you can get:
1 Paladin
1 Ranger
1 Arcane Trickster (1/3 caster)
1 Eldritch Knight (1/3 caster)
1 Four Elements Monk (Isn't that about a 1/3 caster?)

No Artificers needed. (Except that you mentioned being in a Eberron styled game, so embrace it :smallbiggrin: )
You get to make some magic items for the party.
Let us know how it goes, sounds like a fun campaign.

[Democratus]

I wouldn't sweat it all that much. 5e is set up in such a way you could have a party with zero casting ability and they will be fine honestly.

Exactly this.

Unless you are making some modifications for your game, 5e doesn't demand high-magic characters to succeed at adventuring.

Even parties with zero spellcasting can do just fine.

[Galithar]

You should be fine, and it looks like fun.

There are a couple of things to watch out for though.

1) Be careful with things like massed archers. Massed mobs in melee are a bit less of an issue with good manuvering and good use of terrain but archers can tend to be tougher to avoid.

2) Attrition will be a bit different. In additon to the bucket-loads of healing you are going to (probably) have characters with above average AC and HP.

3) You will need to find the tactical challenges - normally a lot of fights kind of revolve round identifying and exploiting weak points in the party and trying to get into the back lines. There are no weak points, just tough and tougher points. And every character can potentially cast a healing spell to return a downed ally to the fight.

4) It may take a while for the party to find their appropriate roles/spells. There is a lot of overlap between them - a lot of casters knowing a lot of spells but spread between few spell levels. The opportunity for finding spells that are both good and unique is limited.

5) Loot is a bit congested. There are a lot of potential items not usable by the party and a lot of competition for things like good medium armour.

1. I will be mindful of that. I didn't think melee versus ranged mobs being all that different.

2. I have a variant rest system. Short and Long rests are variable length. Short rest based on numbers and long rests based on living conditions (I used lifestyle expense tiers as my guidelines). That was mostly to get the game pacing to where we are happy with it. It encourages more spaced out encounters at low levels and more condensed at high levels when paying for comfort is easier. Works well for us and makes attrition all the more important for encounter design. We rarely have 15 minute adventuring days, even with week long rests early on.

3. I like that there isn't a weak point. I always feel bad when I target the squishy caster constantly. It's not because I am DM v. PC, but because any creature with moderate intelligence knows how dangerous the wizard is, and how easy he is to kill in comparison to the Half-Orc Barbarian.

4. I will be trying to encourage experimentation and avoiding overlap on as many spells as makes sense so everyone can try things they may not have otherwise.

5. I make custom loot that is designed for 1 or 2 people in the party for most things. I rarely use out of the book magic items for anything but consumables. Also for Armor we will have 1 light (Ranger) 1 medium (Artillerist) and 2 Heavy (Armorer and Paladin) so armor will always have a very clear "belongs to X" as the Armorer will 100% be crafting and enchanting/infusing his own armor, not getting it as a drop.


Edit: Also weapons are pretty easily split.
Ranger - Only bow user
Artillerist - Won't use a weapon as the subclass supports cantrips.
Armorer - Infusing and/or enchanting Armorer built in weapons (bit of homebrew will be used here to support this)
Paladin - Literally anything that isn't a bow!

Now obviously plans can change and someone might decide they want to use a particular magic weapon based on its abilities that wouldn't fall into their normal wheelhouse, but my players are pretty good at self regulating that. As you can see they kind of intentionally build around it to start with, which I LOVE.

[1Pirate]

this party is going to be walking everywhere, forever.

Find Steed/Find Greater Steed: AM I A JOKE TO YOU?!