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View Full Version : Optimization Best use of the bonus action (between TWF, PAM and CBE) for a Hexblade Warlock



Indorilous
2021-02-10, 03:04 AM
Hello.

My girlfriend is playing a Winged Tiefling Hexblade Warlock on a campaign, and she asked me how to optimize her build. So far, she is level 7, soon to hit level 8. She has 20 Charisma. As of invocations, she has Devil's sight, Agonizing Blast, Improved Pact Weapon and Thirsting Blade. She is currently wielding a Flametongue Longsword, a +1 Shield and she is wearing a Black Dragonscale Armor. Her playstyle is mostly melee combat alongside with me (an Oathbreaker Palading), and sometimes when she is forced to range, she uses Eldritch Blast. Of course her first bonus action goes to establishing Hex, and when we have to face a very strong opponent, she uses her second round bonus action to establish Hexblade's Curse (but that's rare, mostly she uses only Hex). The campaign is scheduled to last until level 20 and perhaps beyond that. A Necromancer Wizard is also with us and an NPC Death Cleric played by the DM to help in dire situations.

My question is what to do with the bonus action after establishing Hex. We are about to enter White Plume Mountain now and things will get difficult, as we are only 3,5 of us (the Cleric doesn't count as a full party member). We will hit level 8 before entering, which gives you a feat, and I was considering the following 3 choices: Dual Wielding, Polearm Master and Crossbow Expert. I can't decide which of the 3 is better. I am leaning a bit more towards Dual Wielding swords, because she already has a Flametongue Longsword, which does a lot of damage (and the die loves her too). If she goes that way, she will take a level of Fighter at level 9 to grab Two-Weapon Fighting Style to optimise it (and have her off-hand weapon be the Hex Warrior weapon so it benefits from Charisma modifier).

My last concern is about sentient items. The DM might give us the choice of trading one of the White Plume Mountain sentient items for another one, since they are not usable by us (except perhaps Blackrazor). As far as I can understand, a sentient weapon can be benefited from Hex Warrior, right? I know it can't be your pact weapon, that is clear enough. And if I am correct, if the weapon will be a longsword, similar in power level as Wave, wouldn't it be the better option if she kept her Flametongue as her main hand pact weapon and make the sentient sword as her off-hand, Hex-Warrior-touched weapon, so they both benefit from Hex Warrior?

I would like to hear your thoughts.

Zhorn
2021-02-10, 03:31 AM
Unless the off-hand weapon is better than the Flametongue longsword, keep the Flametongue as the primary benefactor of the Hexblade features. If Charisma is her best stat, she'll want that paired with her best weapon to give the best odds of hitting with it.
Using Charisma for the attack modifier is nice.
Nicer still when the weapon packs a serious punch on impact.

Edit: I read book bad. I lose internet points.

Galithar
2021-02-10, 03:39 AM
Unless the off-hand weapon is better than the Flametongue longsword, keep the Flametongue as the primary benefactor of the Hexblade features. If Charisma is her best stat, she'll want that paired with her best weapon to give the best odds of hitting with it.
Using Charisma for the attack modifier is nice.
Nicer still when the weapon packs a serious punch on impact.

A blade pact Hexblade can make both function on Cha. Hex Warrior can affect any one handed weapon they have proficiency with and then it extends all benefits to any pact weapon. The Pact of the blade pact Weapon can't affect a sentient weapon, but the Hex warrior feature still can. They would have a sentient weapon benefitting from Hex Warrior, and a Flametongue benefitting indirectly from Hex Warrior via Pact of the Blade.

da newt
2021-02-10, 12:50 PM
With a flame tongue sword in hand, the only option of the 3 provided is dual wielding.

Replacing your shield w/ a second sword or other weapon will decrease your AC by 1, but give you the option to attack again but without the ability mod damage until you pick up the fighting style w/ 1 fighter (and then you might as well look at 2 fighter for action surge, and then if you do that you might as well go 3 for subclass - BM or Echo Knight would be on my short list).

I'd also go back and take a look at using Hexblade's Curse more often than it seems that you do.

borg286
2021-02-10, 12:59 PM
Consider fey touched for Misty Step and a bonus to CHA

kaervaak
2021-02-10, 02:48 PM
Taking the Eldritch adept feat for Relentless Hex would be my pick. A bonus action teleport is amazing.

How's her athletics? Shield master would give a nice BA option if her athletics is decent.

Evaar
2021-02-10, 03:37 PM
A blade pact Hexblade can make both function on Cha. Hex Warrior can affect any one handed weapon they have proficiency with and then it extends all benefits to any pact weapon. The Pact of the blade pact Weapon can't affect a sentient weapon, but the Hex warrior feature still can. They would have a sentient weapon benefitting from Hex Warrior, and a Flametongue benefitting indirectly from Hex Warrior via Pact of the Blade.

This is correct, but the offhand weapon is not going to be her Pact Weapon. You only get one of those.

This impacts numerous invocations, such as Lifedrinker. If you can get PAM with that invocation, you're adding your Charisma bonus (+5 in this case) to all three attacks you get each turn. If not, you're leaving that +5 damage on the table for your bonus action.

End of the world? No, but a consideration.

Also, more of a corner case scenario, but Thirsting Blade only impacts your pact weapon. Most turns, this means nothing, but if for some reason she wants to attack twice with the offhand weapon using the Attack action she actually couldn't (say it has a daily property that adds a bunch of damage on a hit, you'd want to attack with it twice but you wouldn't have made it your pact weapon).

Indorilous
2021-02-10, 04:24 PM
Thank you all for your replies.


Replacing your shield w/ a second sword or other weapon will decrease your AC by 1, but give you the option to attack again but without the ability mod damage until you pick up the fighting style w/ 1 fighter (and then you might as well look at 2 fighter for action surge, and then if you do that you might as well go 3 for subclass - BM or Echo Knight would be on my short list).

I'd also go back and take a look at using Hexblade's Curse more often than it seems that you do.

It's a nice thought to go more than 1 level of Fighter, but you lose a bit from Warlock on high levels if you do. Taking one level of Fighter deprives you only from Eldrith Master at level 20, which is no big deal. But more levels makes you lose invocations and ASIs. But I will consider that, action surge is really nice to have. A martial archetype wouldn't give anything tremendous to the build though.


Consider fey touched for Misty Step and a bonus to CHA

She already has 20 CHA and knows Misty Step as a spell.


Taking the Eldritch adept feat for Relentless Hex would be my pick. A bonus action teleport is amazing.

How's her athletics? Shield master would give a nice BA option if her athletics is decent.

Why take a feat to learn an invocation when you are already a Warlock who learns invocations as a class feature? Relentless Hex is indeed a nice invocation and she will pick it on higher levels. As for her Athletics, she has a STR score of 8, not so good.


This is correct, but the offhand weapon is not going to be her Pact Weapon. You only get one of those.

This impacts numerous invocations, such as Lifedrinker. If you can get PAM with that invocation, you're adding your Charisma bonus (+5 in this case) to all three attacks you get each turn. If not, you're leaving that +5 damage on the....

You are correct about Lifedrinker and thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't thought about it. -5 damage per round is indeed not that much to cry to. PAM was my second best consideration. The only downside is that there are not any good magical polerams, except of course a +3 weapon, which is kinda dull if you ask me. That's why I am leaning more towards swords. If I can find a fancy polearm, even a homebrew, I will tell her to go that way, as I am a fan of glaives.

The reason that she uses Hex more than Hexblade's curse is that Hex is easier to move between targets and encounters due to concentration. After she gets Master of hexes, she intents to use Hexblade's curse more often.

kaervaak
2021-02-10, 05:34 PM
Why take a feat to learn an invocation when you are already a Warlock who learns invocations as a class feature? Relentless Hex is indeed a nice invocation and she will pick it on higher levels. As for her Athletics, she has a STR score of 8, not so good.




Well, because Invocations are awesome and can ever really have enough of them? Bladelocks are famously invocation starved, so getting more of them is nice.

She could jump into a sorcerer multiclass, which would give her lots of fun options. Quickened spell would let her nova with blade cantrips or eldritch blast, or let her throw down a concentration spell without spending her whole action. Plus you can burn warlock slots for sorcery points for added flexibility.

kaervaak
2021-02-10, 06:05 PM
Following up on my sorcerer recommendation:
7th or 8th level is actually a nice spot to jump out of warlock. You just got 4th level spell slots and an extra invocation. You can now cast shadow of moil, letting you drop the darkness/devil sight combo. You can swap devil's sight out for eldritch smite to up your DPR.

If she doesn't want to multiclass., she could take metamagic adept as your 8th level feat which would let you quicken once per day. Not so great for sustained DPR, but really nice for getting shadow of moil up without wasting her action.

Hannibal78
2021-02-11, 01:15 AM
I created my Geniee warlock last summer, before Tasha. I also went in the direction of the psionic a little bit, part of the revisited UA psionic dice feats, and some since then official.
I was choosing wild talent UA feat before i my charisma was hiting 20. Since Tasha came out, regarding the psionic die, we are using the Tasha rule, you have double like your proficiency bonus.
I really like the Psi-Boosted Ability, to boost any Charisma based check. That mean, when i have to dispel or counter magic something, when a spell lvl is higher when my spell slot, i can boost my chance with Psi-Boosted Ability if i need it.
Psi-Guided Strike I also found really usefull corrigate a realy bad roll with EB, or if you are a hexblade, with your weapon. I never was running out of psionic die, but i could use it everytime when i needed it. This is something fun, and usefull if you allow UA in your campagne.

The bonus action thing, for me, was part of this, but it's available since Tasha without Wild Talent, and that is the Telekinesis feat.
First, an invisible mage hand is always a bonus, if you don't know the cantrip, you have it. Second, you can increase one of your mental ability score, which i found really good, and third, you can push or pull people around you with your bonus action. You can save your friend if he is overwhelmed with enemys, and pull him away without opportunity attack, or push your enemy away if they are in melee range, and you can move away.
If your GF is not using EB for dmg purpose to much, mb she can switch the Agonizing Blast to Repelling Blast and-or Grasp of Hadar from XGE. With that, if she need, she can pull or push several or one target in a turn with her normal action (if she will use EB) and with her bonus action too.
My most epic moment was with that combo, when two night hag was standing near a boiling cauldron, and i could push (shove) them both into it and not letting out :smallbiggrin:
A true Hansel and Gretel scene. :smallsmile:

Indorilous
2021-02-11, 07:18 AM
Well, because Invocations are awesome and can ever really have enough of them? Bladelocks are famously invocation starved, so getting more of them is nice.

She could jump into a sorcerer multiclass, which would give her lots of fun options. Quickened spell would let her nova with blade cantrips or eldritch blast, or let her throw down a concentration spell without spending her whole action. Plus you can burn warlock slots for sorcery points for added flexibility.

I wasn't aware that Hexblades are evocation starved. I will definetely consider this feat but not for her 8th level feat. That will go towards one of the 3 mentioned at the start of the thread. Sorcerer multiclasses are nice, but they need a serious investment to worth it because sorcery points scale with sorcerer level. From my POV (and my GF's), losing more than 1 level of Warlock isn't something we will do unless the benefits are considerable (like a second level in Fighter to get action surge). And I think that Eldritch Smite is a better way to burn excess Warlock slots than geting a couple sorcery points per rest.


The bonus action thing, for me, was part of this, but it's available since Tasha without Wild Talent, and that is the Telekinesis feat.
First, an invisible mage hand is always a bonus, if you don't know the cantrip, you have it. Second, you can increase one of your mental ability score, which i found really good, and third, you can push or pull people around you with your bonus action. You can save your friend if he is overwhelmed with enemys, and pull him away without opportunity attack, or push your enemy away if they are in melee range, and you can move away.
If your GF is not using EB for dmg purpose to much, mb she can switch the Agonizing Blast to Repelling Blast and-or Grasp of Hadar from XGE. With that, if she need, she can pull or push several or one target in a turn with her normal action (if she will use EB) and with her bonus action too.
My most epic moment was with that combo, when two night hag was standing near a boiling cauldron, and i could push (shove) them both into it and not letting out
A true Hansel and Gretel scene.

That was a nice and a creative use of the spell, no doubt! I will definitely consider the Telekinetic feat, but for a later ASI. Since a Hexblade only needs CHA, she will have at least two more ASIs to take feats. He use of Eldritch Blast is mainly for damage, and with that, she want's to do as much damage as possible. I don't think she will sacrifice Agonizing Blast for a different EB invocation. Perhaps she might be able to take a second one at higher levels.

Willie the Duck
2021-02-11, 09:44 AM
Consider fey touched for Misty Step and a bonus to CHA

OP says she has 20 charisma, but outside of that situation (so for other warlocks), I would recommend fey touched for Misty Step and Hex (freeing up your spells known slots for other things) or Gift of Alacrity. Both Fey Touched and Shadow Touched seem like great feats for warlocks, as the extra two spells per long rest that each give (even if they are spells to which you might already have access) a warlock the ability to cast more than two spells per combat if necessary during that long stretch where they only have two spell slots.

Regarding the current situation -- If they pick Dual Wielder, I honestly wouldn't bother with the level of fighter just for the fighting style. It will never exceed an extra 5 points of damage (x hit chance) per round, and at this level that's just not huge. Better to grab something like war caster or resilient:con to keep your concentration effects up better (although there's now an invocation in Tasha's which does some of that), which should be a perennial problem for a melee gish.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2021-02-11, 10:37 AM
Tandem Tactician (https://media.wizards.com/2020/dnd/downloads/UA2020_Feats.pdf) if available.

Telekinetic if you can bonus another stat but still use Cha on it, since Cha is already 20.

If your 4th level ASI was +2 Cha, see if you can swap that for a +1 Cha half-feat (Fey Touched?) and take Telekinetic (Cha) at 8th.

Evaar
2021-02-11, 03:00 PM
You are correct about Lifedrinker and thank you for pointing that out. I hadn't thought about it. -5 damage per round is indeed not that much to cry to. PAM was my second best consideration. The only downside is that there are not any good magical polerams, except of course a +3 weapon, which is kinda dull if you ask me. That's why I am leaning more towards swords. If I can find a fancy polearm, even a homebrew, I will tell her to go that way, as I am a fan of glaives.

This may not be optimal, as I haven't seen many commenting about it, but I have found success using Elemental Weapon. It's a Hexblade spell, and it gets you a +2 bonus to attack and +2d4 to damage rolls when you're casting it at 5th level - which, eventually, you will. Again, factor in with PAM that you're attacking 3 times a turn, that's an extra 6d4 (assuming you connect). Plus the 15 from Lifedrinker, plus the standard 15 from your Charisma bonus/Hex Warrior. Whatever the dice roll, you just add so many bonuses to each hit you're always going to deliver the hurt.

It lasts an hour so you can precast it pretty easily, and chances are that by the time that hour is up you're ready for a short rest so you can set it up again as soon as you're done.

The downsides are that it requires a non-magical weapon (which does include your pact weapon, so long as you didn't make a magical weapon your pact weapon) so you're limited on your upgrades. But, as you point out, if you're using a polearm there's not much you could get anyway. So Elemental Weapon solves that issue with polearms. The real downside is it means your Concentration is pretty much always spoken for, and you're not using Hex; Hex doesn't play very nicely with PAM anyway so I still consider it a net gain. You aren't using Shadow of Moil either most of the time, which is a hit to your defensive capabilities, but Shadow of Moil only lasts 1 minute so it eats more of your spell slots and it is going to take your first turn to set up most of the time.

I've been playing a high level PAM Hexblade using Elemental Weapon for a while now, my biggest issue is mobility - and that's pretty much inherent to the class, unless you're going with a Relentless Hex invocation. But again, that's eating your bonus action, you won't be doing that with PAM, so it's a tradeoff.

Last point - I've enjoyed having the flexibility this playstyle gives. You aren't married to using a Glaive like you would be if you found a magical one. Instead you can carry a shield and decide based on the situation whether you want to swap to staff/spear in one hand and shield in the other for slightly less damage and reach in exchange for +2 AC; both still work with PAM. Or you can use the Glaive when you think you can take advantage of positioning with reach to stay safe and get the slightly higher damage dice.

Not everyone enjoys that kind of decision-making though, so YMMV.

Kane0
2021-02-11, 03:12 PM
None of those three are that amazing with a flametongue bladelock.

Fey and Shadow Touched are both great even if your Cha is maxxed (wis is good for traps, cha is good for talking). Likewise telekinetic and telepathic depending on how squeezed you feel for spell slots during the day compared to new abilities.

Lucky, resilient and inspiring leader are all solid options too.

Indorilous
2021-02-12, 02:47 AM
Regarding the current situation -- If they pick Dual Wielder, I honestly wouldn't bother with the level of fighter just for the fighting style. It will never exceed an extra 5 points of damage (x hit chance) per round, and at this level that's just not huge. Better to grab something like war caster or resilient:con to keep your concentration effects up better (although there's now an invocation in Tasha's which does some of that), which should be a perennial problem for a melee gish.

Losing one level of Warlock overall doesn't cost her anything, except Eldritch Master at level 20 (which is a terrible and useless capstone ability). So, with that in mind, she can spare one level for another



Tandem Tactician if available. Telekinetic if you can bonus another stat but still use Cha on it, since Cha is already 20. If your 4th level ASI was +2 Cha, see if you can swap that for a +1 Cha half-feat (Fey Touched?) and take Telekinetic (Cha) at 8th.

Using your bonus action just to give advantage to another player seems a waste of resources when you could so many more things. And epsecially if advantage is so easy to come by (flanking, darkness, the Necromancer's familiar). Telekinetic is an excellent feat and I will make sure to tell the Necromancer to grab it (he has 19 Int so it is perfect).


This may not be optimal, as I haven't seen many commenting about it, but I have found success using Elemental Weapon. It's a Hexblade spell, and it gets you a +2 bonus to attack and +2d4 to damage rolls when you're casting it at 5th level - which, eventually, you will. Again, factor in with PAM that you're attacking 3 times a turn, that's an extra 6d4 (assuming you connect). Plus the 15 from Lifedrinker, plus the standard 15 from your Charisma bonus/Hex Warrior. Whatever the dice roll, you just add so many bonuses to each hit you're always going to deliver the hurt.

It lasts an hour so you can precast it pretty easily, and chances are that by the time that hour is up you're ready for a short rest so you can set it up again as soon as you're done.

The downsides are that it requires a non-magical weapon (which does include your pact weapon, so long as you didn't make a magical weapon your pact weapon) so you're limited on your upgrades. But, as you point out, if you're using a polearm there's not much you could get anyway. So Elemental Weapon solves that issue with polearms. The real downside is it means your Concentration is pretty much always spoken for, and you're not using Hex; Hex doesn't play very nicely with PAM anyway so I still consider it a net gain. You aren't using Shadow of Moil either most of the time, which is a hit to your defensive capabilities, but Shadow of Moil only lasts 1 minute so it eats more of your spell slots and it is going to take your first turn to set up most of the time.

I've been playing a high level PAM Hexblade using Elemental Weapon for a while now, my biggest issue is mobility - and that's pretty much inherent to the class, unless you're going with a Relentless Hex invocation. But again, that's eating your bonus action, you won't be doing that with PAM, so it's a tradeoff.

Last point - I've enjoyed having the flexibility this playstyle gives. You aren't married to using a Glaive like you would be if you found a magical one. Instead you can carry a shield and decide based on the situation whether you want to swap to staff/spear in one hand and shield in the other for slightly less damage and reach in exchange for +2 AC; both still work with PAM. Or you can use the Glaive when you think you can take advantage of positioning with reach to stay safe and get the slightly higher damage dice.

Not everyone enjoys that kind of decision-making though, so YMMV.

That sounds like an excellent idea! I love the fact that you are free to conjure any weapon you want and enhance it with elemental weapon. However, the concentration issue is a thing which might prove restrainful. But I will definitely inform her about that option, I like it too. And she still can carry a sword with her if she wants a change in playstyle.


None of those three are that amazing with a flametongue bladelock.

Fey and Shadow Touched are both great even if your Cha is maxxed (wis is good for traps, cha is good for talking). Likewise telekinetic and telepathic depending on how squeezed you feel for spell slots during the day compared to new abilities.

Lucky, resilient and inspiring leader are all solid options too.

I like Lucky too. I was also thinking of telling her to grap Infernal Constitution at some point. Resistance in 2 common damage types seem more relevant than profficiency in contistution saves (since a paladin with an eventually +5 aura of protection is in the party). And coupling it with her inate fire resistance and acid resistance from her armor, she is a force to be reckoned with!

Kane0
2021-02-12, 06:06 AM
Yes infernal constitution is good stuff!

LudicSavant
2021-02-12, 06:23 AM
Hello.

My girlfriend is playing a Winged Tiefling Hexblade Warlock on a campaign, and she asked me how to optimize her build. So far, she is level 7, soon to hit level 8. She has 20 Charisma. As of invocations, she has Devil's sight, Agonizing Blast, Improved Pact Weapon and Thirsting Blade. She is currently wielding a Flametongue Longsword, a +1 Shield and she is wearing a Black Dragonscale Armor. Her playstyle is mostly melee combat alongside with me (an Oathbreaker Palading), and sometimes when she is forced to range, she uses Eldritch Blast. Of course her first bonus action goes to establishing Hex, and when we have to face a very strong opponent, she uses her second round bonus action to establish Hexblade's Curse (but that's rare, mostly she uses only Hex). The campaign is scheduled to last until level 20 and perhaps beyond that. A Necromancer Wizard is also with us and an NPC Death Cleric played by the DM to help in dire situations.

My question is what to do with the bonus action after establishing Hex. We are about to enter White Plume Mountain now and things will get difficult, as we are only 3,5 of us (the Cleric doesn't count as a full party member). We will hit level 8 before entering, which gives you a feat, and I was considering the following 3 choices: Dual Wielding, Polearm Master and Crossbow Expert. I can't decide which of the 3 is better. I am leaning a bit more towards Dual Wielding swords, because she already has a Flametongue Longsword, which does a lot of damage (and the die loves her too). If she goes that way, she will take a level of Fighter at level 9 to grab Two-Weapon Fighting Style to optimise it (and have her off-hand weapon be the Hex Warrior weapon so it benefits from Charisma modifier).

My last concern is about sentient items. The DM might give us the choice of trading one of the White Plume Mountain sentient items for another one, since they are not usable by us (except perhaps Blackrazor). As far as I can understand, a sentient weapon can be benefited from Hex Warrior, right? I know it can't be your pact weapon, that is clear enough. And if I am correct, if the weapon will be a longsword, similar in power level as Wave, wouldn't it be the better option if she kept her Flametongue as her main hand pact weapon and make the sentient sword as her off-hand, Hex-Warrior-touched weapon, so they both benefit from Hex Warrior?

I would like to hear your thoughts.

A single target (even a Deadly one) shouldn't be lasting far longer than 2 rounds, and after that you need to re-up Hex. Feats dropped on something that'll only happen on round 3+ are feats that could have been spent on making those first 2 rounds more decisive. Even if you argue that an enemy might last 4 rounds, any bonus action feat is basically having to pull double-value compared to its competition to make up for lost time. More if not all single targets or instances of Concentration last that long.

Also, all of the choices you listed have problems for you. PAM and CBE aren't gonna work with your Flametongue or sentient magic weapon. TWF is going to make you have to drop your +1 shield, and the survivability difference between a 17 and 20 AC is not small, and I would generally recommend against jumping out of Hexblade at level 9.

So my personal advice would be to avoid all 3 of those ideas in this case. https://forums.giantitp.com/images/sand/icons/icon_thumbsup.png

Edit: Here's some other possibilities for an already-20-Cha melee Hexblade who wants to stick with a Flametongue longsword and shield:

Inspiring Leader (not only gives level+Cha hp per *short* rest to all the PCs, but to some of the Necromancer's minions, too. Even their familiar might not die in one hit).
Sentinel (If the Oathbreaker tends to be fighting right next to them in melee, they can retaliate with a Hex/Curse Flametongue attack as a reaction. And they can punish attacks on themselves with Hellish Rebuke and/or Armor of Agathys).
Aberrant Dragonmark (to bump an odd Con score, get an extra cantrip, and 3/standard adventuring day uses of a buffed version of Shield)
Metamagic Adept (Quicken an entire spell as a bonus action, even if it's just once a day. This spell can be anything from Flametongue Booming Blade to a full-blown Mystic Arcanum. Also can pick up something like Extended, Subtle, or Empower).
Warcaster (For Booming Blade OAs and saving an invocation on Eldritch Mind)
Alert (the difference between winning initiative and losing it is basically an entire extra turn)
Lucky (also helps initiative. And cancelling enemy critical hits. And mitigating misses. And saves. And so forth)
Res:Con (for bumping up an odd Con score. Both this and Aberrant Mark are better than the Tiefling racial Con feat, IMHO).
Shield Master (How good it is depends on which of the 3 contradictory rulings you're using, so you need to find that out from the DM. But with a bunch of skeletons and an Oathbreaker, you've got no shortage of allies to take advantage of Prone. Unlike the bonus actions originally proposed, this lets you do something with it even when you're using Hex and Curse).

Willie the Duck
2021-02-12, 08:15 AM
Losing one level of Warlock overall doesn't cost her anything, except Eldritch Master at level 20 (which is a terrible and useless capstone ability). So, with that in mind, she can spare one level for another

If you get to your level up to L20, and she chooses fighter instead of warlock, then yes it would be a no-loss situation. In all other cases, she is delaying a useful level up in warlock for a a 1d10+1 second wind ability and a fighting style you are suggesting to be the one that grants up to +5 damage (*hit chance) per round. I am saying that I don't find that (plus the ASI you are dedicating to Dual Wielding) to be worthwhile. Especially since, as LudicSavant mentions, bonus action attacks compete with moving Hex.

LudicSavant
2021-02-12, 09:05 AM
Losing one level of Warlock overall doesn't cost her anything, except Eldritch Master at level 20 (which is a terrible and useless capstone ability).

There are two main things I disagree with in this statement. The first is saying that 4x level 5 spell slots is "useless," especially compared to the TWF Fighting Style. The second is that it only costs you Eldritch Master when you're actually level 20. At all other points, losing one level of Warlock costs you whatever the next level of Warlock would have gotten you, whether that's Lifedrinker or Mystic Arcanum (Forcecage) or Mystic Arcanum (Foresight) or whatever.

It takes a lot, and I mean a lot of rounds for the TWF fighting style to generate more value than 4 level 5 slots even just spent on things like Armor of Agathys or Hellish Rebuke. More rounds than you are ever going to have. Seriously. A simple Hellish Rebuke is worth 6d10+6 (from the curse), save for half. That single basic upcast slot is worth as much on a failed save as successfully landing 8 of those TWF style bonuses. And I don't need to wait 3 rounds to get that going. Or drop my shield. Or take the Dual Wielder feat.