Xanathar: Tools and Skills (Not) Together

[Millstone85]

Xanathar's Guide to Everything introduced an optional rule where "If the use of a tool and the use of a skill both apply to a check, and a character is proficient with the tool and the skill, consider allowing the character to make the check with advantage".

The book then gives each tool a list of skills it can be used in conjuction with. For example, under the herbalism kit, we find "Medicine: Your mastery of herbalism improves your ability to treat illnesses and wounds by augmenting your methods of care with medicinal plants".

My question is: Would it be reasonable to use these lists as guidelines for regular Ability (Tool) checks? No advantage, just the proficiency bonus.

Back to the same example, I am currently playing a character who is proficient with the herbalism kit but does not have proficiency in medicine. Could this character make a Wisdom (Herbalism Kit) check to treat an illness or wound with medicinal plants, hoping the patient does not require surgery or any other non-herbal treatment?

[PhantomSoul]

Xanathar's Guide to Everything introduced an optional rule where "If the use of a tool and the use of a skill both apply to a check, and a character is proficient with the tool and the skill, consider allowing the character to make the check with advantage".

The book then gives each tool a list of skills it can be used in conjuction with. For example, under the herbalism kit, we find "Medicine: Your mastery of herbalism improves your ability to treat illnesses and wounds by augmenting your methods of care with medicinal plants".

My question is: Would it be reasonable to use these lists as guidelines for regular Ability (Tool) checks? No advantage, just the proficiency bonus.

Back to the same example, I am currently playing a character who is proficient with the herbalism kit but does not have proficiency in medicine. Could this character make a Wisdom (Herbalism Kit) check to treat an illness or wound with medicinal plants, hoping the patient does not require surgery or any other non-herbal treatment?

As always it's up to the DM, but it seems reasonable to allow the attempt (probably with proficiency given you know how to use the tool and that's what tool proficiency does, though I could see the justification of not having proficiency if it requires something like diagnosis first [so the skill] or of separating those into separate checks [so if you fail medicine, you can treat well and just have treated the wrong thing]; I could definitely see intelligence being used here as well, but that's a seemingly never-ending point!).

[meandean]

Yup, DM call but, since tool proficiencies hardly ever get utilized, I would allow it, given that it makes sense as an explanation of what you're doing. (In your example, understanding that it's more like you're using the most logical herbal solution and seeing whether it works, rather than diagnosing the illness per se.)

But you most likely can't flip the concept around, both because skills do get utilized and because it probably doesn't make sense. You can't use Athletics to be a blacksmith.

[DarknessEternal]

Yes, this is exactly what tool proficiencies are for.

[Unoriginal]

Xanathar's Guide to Everything introduced an optional rule where "If the use of a tool and the use of a skill both apply to a check, and a character is proficient with the tool and the skill, consider allowing the character to make the check with advantage".

The book then gives each tool a list of skills it can be used in conjuction with. For example, under the herbalism kit, we find "Medicine: Your mastery of herbalism improves your ability to treat illnesses and wounds by augmenting your methods of care with medicinal plants".

My question is: Would it be reasonable to use these lists as guidelines for regular Ability (Tool) checks? No advantage, just the proficiency bonus.

Back to the same example, I am currently playing a character who is proficient with the herbalism kit but does not have proficiency in medicine. Could this character make a Wisdom (Herbalism Kit) check to treat an illness or wound with medicinal plants, hoping the patient does not require surgery or any other non-herbal treatment?

A DM can declare an ability check benefits from the proficiency bonus for any proficiency they deems relevant.

I see few DMs who would see "make a Wisdom check to try to heal from something that can be healed with plants" and think "proficiency with Herbalism's Kit doesn't apply here".

That being said, it's also entirely possible that using plants and herbalism does not actually help here, in which case the proficiency in Herbalism's Kit wouldn't apply (unless to determine that you can't heal this problem with plants).

[Millstone85]

For context, it turns out that the adventure starts with our characters being recruited for an expedition to a mysterious island. To make myself useful onboard, I intend to seek the ship's physician and offer my services as a faith healer. I fully expect whoever that is to roll their eyes and say something like "Sure, miracle away my job, will you?". To this, I will answer that I will keep my magic for the worst cases, and that I can also work as a nurse thanks to my knowledge of medicinal plants.

[Millstone85]

Well, the NPCs are turning out to be much more polite than in previous adventures. My character is actually getting respect for her spells, and no ridicule whatsoever for her tisanes. That is truly a miracle. :smallbiggrin:

[Tanarii]

As long as you're actively using the tools to do a task, that falls under the PHB guidelines for applying the proficiency. So yeah, they'd probably be great guidelines for a DM and/or player, as long as the description is actively using the tools to do a task.

If the description is knowledge related to use of the tools, that doesn't count under the PHB rules. The DM would have to be using the Xanathars optional rules to consider them for applying the proficiency. But if they are using those rules, then yeah, they're also fair game for consideration of tasks that can be used with just the tools, to gain proficiency but not advantage.