Infernal Contract: How to twist up the players?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

So only 1 session into the Avernus part of Descent into Avernus, the party thought they needed a guide and one of them has signed off on his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil.
So I'm thinking once the guiding service is over (1 week; boy he made a bad deal) the Barbed Devil will arrange some sort of trap where the characters come across a situation where some innocents are going to die, but by disabling the trap Barbosa will be harmed. I'm thinking an infernal war machine could be barreling down on the innocents maybe driven by Barbosa, or that in changing course the war machine will slam into him instead.
Anybody have any other ideas? I feel this could be a running theme until Barbosa gets what he wants. Oh and the characters were smart enough to write in that Barbosa had to identify himself, so he can't be harmed while hidden or in disguise, etc.
Thanks in advance.

[Jon talks a lot]

I don't understand how your player possibly decided that was a good idea. That may, quite literally, be the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals. If you want to punish them for it, that's cool. But it might seem like targeting to your players. I would be careful or it will lead to many feels bad moments.

[Unoriginal]

So only 1 session into the Avernus part of Descent into Avernus, the party thought they needed a guide and one of them has signed off on his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil.
So I'm thinking once the guiding service is over (1 week; boy he made a bad deal) the Barbed Devil will arrange some sort of trap where the characters come across a situation where some innocents are going to die, but by disabling the trap Barbosa will be harmed. I'm thinking an infernal war machine could be barreling down on the innocents maybe driven by Barbosa, or that in changing course the war machine will slam into him instead.
Anybody have any other ideas? I feel this could be a running theme until Barbosa gets what he wants. Oh and the characters were smart enough to write in that Barbosa had to identify himself, so he can't be harmed while hidden or in disguise, etc.
Thanks in advance.

What happens if Barbosa attacks the PC when the group is busy doing something else? Do they defend themselves and lose their soul?


I don't understand how your player possibly decided that was a good idea. That may, quite literally, be the worst trade deal in the history of trade deals.

It's certainly a contender for the title, yeah.


People in-universe would probably write songs about it if they learned about it.

[Segev]

So only 1 session into the Avernus part of Descent into Avernus, the party thought they needed a guide and one of them has signed off on his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil.
So I'm thinking once the guiding service is over (1 week; boy he made a bad deal) the Barbed Devil will arrange some sort of trap where the characters come across a situation where some innocents are going to die, but by disabling the trap Barbosa will be harmed. I'm thinking an infernal war machine could be barreling down on the innocents maybe driven by Barbosa, or that in changing course the war machine will slam into him instead.
Anybody have any other ideas? I feel this could be a running theme until Barbosa gets what he wants. Oh and the characters were smart enough to write in that Barbosa had to identify himself, so he can't be harmed while hidden or in disguise, etc.
Thanks in advance.

Are you sure your player was clear on the deal? If you think this is a terrible deal, why would your player think it just fine?


If you are going to push through with this, I wouldn't set it up as a "you're totally screwed" trap. A devil has much better things to do with this sort of thing. He can do things like offer them future deals, set up such that if they fail in them they have caused Barbosa to come to harm. The usual "reasonable pay" for a task that was...deceptively specified...which they now can't back out of.

As long as he doesn't collect on it, too, he's got a party that he can keep from attacking him. Setting them against his foes in ways that, if they turn on him, it's harm to him, can ensure that they are hazards only to his enemies.

[Unoriginal]

Worth noting, "refusing to help me against my rivals" can be argued to count as "harming me in a way", and the contract says that the PC is forbidden from harming Barbosa in any way.

So it seems like the PCs can get stuck doing enforcer duties.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

What happens if Barbosa attacks the PC when the group is busy doing something else? Do they defend themselves and lose their soul?



It's certainly a contender for the title, yeah.


People in-universe would probably write songs about it if they learned about it.

Part of the deal also included that Barbosa was unable to harm the players or the deal was void. Only the one PC's soul was on the line, though was dependent on the rest of the character's actions.

Yes, this might be the worst deal in the history of deals, especially given that it came out of a situation where the players had Barbosa over a barrel (they could have killed him).
However, it's an experienced player, and he's already role playing a Warlock dip and has the Shield of the Hidden Lord, so maybe he was just leaning into the idea of being compromised. Both parties added the clause with the (overt) attempt to protect themselves from future attack, and I started to think about ways the Devil would twist it after the fact, and boy are there some. I agree with some posters that it could go too far with some players/ groups, but I think in this case it should make for some interesting dilemmas down the road.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Are you sure your player was clear on the deal? If you think this is a terrible deal, why would your player think it just fine?


If you are going to push through with this, I wouldn't set it up as a "you're totally screwed" trap. A devil has much better things to do with this sort of thing. He can do things like offer them future deals, set up such that if they fail in them they have caused Barbosa to come to harm. The usual "reasonable pay" for a task that was...deceptively specified...which they now can't back out of.

As long as he doesn't collect on it, too, he's got a party that he can keep from attacking him. Setting them against his foes in ways that, if they turn on him, it's harm to him, can ensure that they are hazards only to his enemies.

I think you are right about not having them totally screwed (at least at the first attempt). There probably should be a way of foiling the devil and saving the innocents, but in doing so the player/ character realizes just how much he's hooped himself. Maybe they will come up with a solution. Who knows.

[NecessaryWeevil]

So who or what exactly is in charge of interpreting and enforcing these contracts? If the devil says "Haha! This line of the contract means such and such! And the players say, "What? No it doesn't, that's BS"...who or what decides?

[Unoriginal]

So who or what exactly is in charge of interpreting and enforcing these contracts? If the devil says "Haha! This line of the contract means such and such! And the players say, "What? No it doesn't, that's BS"...who or what decides?

They're enforced by Asmodeus. While it is contract magic in essence, meaning the universe would enforce it in the end, enforcing all Infernal deals is one of good ol' Master Baator's responsibilities due to the contracts he himself made.

If there is contestation of an interpretation, then it has to be disputed in court.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

So who or what exactly is in charge of interpreting and enforcing these contracts? If the devil says "Haha! This line of the contract means such and such! And the players say, "What? No it doesn't, that's BS"...who or what decides?

I was thinking 'harming' basically meant 1 hp of damage or more. Perhaps the party could figure out a way of capturing him and locking him up as a solution. I'm interested to see what they come up with.
Like most of you who responded I can't believe they've screwed themselves this badly already, particularly over a CR 5 monster who was basically trying to keep himself from getting finished. I've got another player who is a greedy Rogue; perhaps I need to find a slightly higher level Devil to offer up a decent Magic Item to him before I let on just how badly the first one messed up.
I'm sure to some of you this seems harsh, but they wanted a gritty trip to Hell, and this is definitely going to make it interesting.

[Segev]

I think you are right about not having them totally screwed (at least at the first attempt). There probably should be a way of foiling the devil and saving the innocents, but in doing so the player/ character realizes just how much he's hooped himself. Maybe they will come up with a solution. Who knows.

My point about them not being screwed over immediately was more that the devil should be thinking longer-term about this. He can milk more out of them a) trusting him a bit and b) not wanting to lose the PC's soul if he strings them along on a few more quests for him.

[ATHATH]

I think Red Fel has made some good posts on this sort of thing. Perhaps we should summon Red Fel to this thread.

... Red Fel.

[Lavaeolus]

The devil's in the details. So what exactly are the terms of the contract? So far it seems:


The party can't harm Barbosa.
Barbosa can't harm the party.
Barbosa can't trick the party into accidentally harming him by being in disguise or out of sight.
Barbosa must guide the party for a period of 1 week.

Any other conditions?

If not, right now there's not much keeping Barbos from just outright leading the adventurers to some place and, well, ganking a bunch of innocents. They're not part of the party and if the players have such a problem with it, hey, why don't they just attack him? Not the amazing cunning I expect from a devil, though.

If he's feeling ambitious, he could go for the more insidious route of leading the party to places where they're likely to fight and wipe out rival devils for him. Barbed devils, specifically, are said to be greedy and watchful for valuable objects, so perhaps Barbos could be out to grab something powerful for himself. Just keep in mind he might want to do it in a way that 1) it doesn't violate 'being a guide' (it shouldn't be in the opposite direction of where the party asks to go) and 2) it doesn't count as harming the party (e.g. outright leading them into a trap or arguably a pointlessly deadly location).


I was thinking 'harming' basically meant 1 hp of damage or more. Perhaps the party could figure out a way of capturing him and locking him up as a solution. I'm interested to see what they come up with.

Following that thought: "Barbed Hide. At the start of each of its turns, the barbed devil deals 5 (1d10) piercing damage to any creature grappling it."

A way out of the contract? The crux: is grappling harming someone? It's grabbing someone by the hand but does no actual damage. If you can grapple Barbosa, you can force him to deal damage to you. Does that count as Barbosa harming you? Hey, the hells are built on semantics.

I probably wouldn't count what is effectively stabbing yourself on someone's body as them harming you, although I might run with the idea if a player suggested it.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

The devil's in the details. So what exactly are the terms of the contract? So far it seems:


The party can't harm Barbosa.
Barbosa can't harm the party.
Barbosa can't trick the party into accidentally harming him by being in disguise or out of sight.
Barbosa must guide the party for a period of 1 week.

Any other conditions?

If not, right now there's not much keeping Barbos from just outright leading the adventurers to some place and, well, ganking a bunch of innocents. They're not part of the party and if the players have such a problem with it, hey, why don't they just attack him? Not the amazing cunning I expect from a devil, though.

If he's feeling ambitious, he could go for the more insidious route of leading the party to places where they're likely to fight and wipe out rival devils for him. Barbed devils, specifically, are said to be greedy and watchful for valuable objects, so perhaps Barbos could be out to grab something powerful for himself. Just keep in mind he might want to do it in a way that 1) it doesn't violate 'being a guide' (it shouldn't be in the opposite direction of where the party asks to go) and 2) it doesn't count as harming the party (e.g. outright leading them into a trap or arguably a pointlessly deadly location).



Following that thought: "Barbed Hide. At the start of each of its turns, the barbed devil deals 5 (1d10) piercing damage to any creature grappling it."

A way out of the contract? The crux: is grappling harming someone? It's grabbing someone by the hand but does no actual damage. If you can grapple Barbosa, you can force him to deal damage to you. Does that count as Barbosa harming you? Hey, the hells are built on semantics.

I probably wouldn't count what is effectively stabbing yourself on someone's body as them harming you, although I might run with the idea if a player suggested it.
I think he does need to lead the players to the best of his ability for the week or the agreement is violated. After that he can do as he wishes.
I read the grappling damage, but I'm ruling that impaling yourself on him won't break the agreement.

[MaxWilson]

So only 1 session into the Avernus part of Descent into Avernus, the party thought they needed a guide and one of them has signed off on his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil.
So I'm thinking once the guiding service is over (1 week; boy he made a bad deal) the Barbed Devil will arrange some sort of trap where the characters come across a situation where some innocents are going to die, but by disabling the trap Barbosa will be harmed. I'm thinking an infernal war machine could be barreling down on the innocents maybe driven by Barbosa, or that in changing course the war machine will slam into him instead.
Anybody have any other ideas? I feel this could be a running theme until Barbosa gets what he wants. Oh and the characters were smart enough to write in that Barbosa had to identify himself, so he can't be harmed while hidden or in disguise, etc.
Thanks in advance.

For future reference, here are some tricks from 2nd edition:


Mortals can attempt to bargain for nearly anything, but there are limits to what individual devils can provide. While this decision is ultimately up to the DM, some common diabolic services include:
1) Finding or retrieving particular items or people.
2) Providing gifts of money, magical items, or spells .
3) Protection from injury.
4) The elimination of an enemy.
5) Political or spiritual power.

Devils, of course, want something in exchange for their services. Foolish mortals agree to vague terms, such as doing a favor for the devil some time in the future.

More savvy bargainers nail down concrete terms, such as a specific sacrifice, service, or magical item. The DM should give some thought to the devil's agenda when running bargaining sessions. The baatezu may want an agent to act against a rival, a patsy to take a fall, or a soul to corrupt. Often, the deals struck are meant to set mortals down the path of law and evil, so their spirits will be reborn in Hell when they die.

It must be remembered that devils are first and foremost evil. They are not making bargains out of the goodness of their hearts, but to make themselves more powerful. If they can get service from a mortal for nothing in return, they certainly will. To this end, devils have become the premier lawyers of the Outer Planes. They are experts at interpreting contracts to their benefit, and finding loopholes to get them out of their obligations. If there is a chink in the armor of a contract, a devil will find it. They have millennia of experience on their side--a fact few mortals seem to appreciate. Below are some common diabolic tricks.

The Promise: I will abide by the terms set forth in this contract.
The Trick: The contract has additional sections written in invisible script or in a dead language that consigns the mortal to years of service in the pits of Baator.

The Promise: I will not kill you when our pact is concluded.
The Trick: The devil can send minions or allies to do the deed instead.

The Promise: I will give you wealth greater than that of kings.
The Trick: The devil could grant such wealth, but it also could be quickly taken away. Also, the wealth of which kings is not specified. Dead or deposed kings may have no money at all.

The Promise: I will take you to the nearest gate out of Hell.
The Trick: The closest gate may be beneath a lake of magma or at the bottom of a frigid ocean.

The Promise: I will whisper powerful secrets into your ear.
The Trick: The devil could whisper the secrets while the mortal is asleep, or in a coma.

[Lunali]

My personal favorite trick is not having one. Give the players the impression that infernal contracts are fair and reasonable. Hard to pull off in a situation where you've already set up an unfair contract for one of their souls though.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Entering into a contract at that monumental level of stupidity deserves to be rewarded. Make the devil deal them dirty and get that soul.

I'd have him focus upon the "harm" term in the contract. What is "harm"?

Is it stealing or taking something which belongs to the devil? Probably yes. So have the devil lead the party somewhere where they're likely to take something that belongs to him. When they pick it up, have him say something non-committal, but which clearly establishes his lack of consent: "That's not yours, you shouldn't take it."

I know it's a devil, but even devils have minions and allies. Is killing an ally of the devil "harm"? Sure it is. And Asmodeus' court would likely uphold it. So the devil leads the party into an area where his allies hold sway, and the first ally that dies seals the PC's fate.

Holding back or nerfing the deal will only weaken the players' fears of entering into (incredibly bad) pacts with fiends, and lower their respect/fears of them. So take that soul!

Once that's accomplished, then I'd give the PCs some way to earn the soul back (maybe with a new pact by one of the other PCs? Double or nothing, friends?) by doing something the fiend will value even higher than the foolish PC's soul. Maybe killing his direct superior or closest rival, so that he can "move up" in the heirarchy?

[clearstream]

Worth noting, "refusing to help me against my rivals" can be argued to count as "harming me in a way", and the contract says that the PC is forbidden from harming Barbosa in any way.
Wasn't the deal - "his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil."

That cannot be extended to "in any way". What I find interesting is the "ever harm" language, and "his guide". One might well argue that only while Barbosa is operating in the capacity of "guide", does this apply. The party might also ensure that any harm done, is done simultaneously, due to the "or his companions" wording. If they were to both harm Barbosa simultaneously, then no forfeit. I believe the goal of these contracts is to have fun with them and you need only read these boards to see some of the dire rhetorical gambits devils (and canny characters) might stoop to.

The way I think I would run this is to perhaps draw the players into thinking about wriggling out of it on the most trivial technicalities. The game, is to come up with frivolous interpretations and perniciously literal readings. To help the players, a competitor of Barbosa's might offer their services as demonic attorney: allowing a DM to feed the group a few suggestions to get them started.

Even if it turns out the group are screwed, Barbosa is a devil. He wants all the souls. Failure on a contract is an opportunity to create another even worse contract!

[Unoriginal]

Wasn't the deal - "his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil."

That cannot be extended to "in any way". What I find interesting is the "ever harm" language, and "his guide". One might well argue that only while Barbosa is operating in the capacity of "guide", does this apply.

I didn't think OP's post contained the actual wording of the pact.



I would also ensure that any harm done, was done simultaneously, due to the "or his companions" wording. If they were to both harm Barbosa simultaneously, then no forfeit.

The word "or" is not formally exclusive, even if it is often treated that way. "him or his companions" can mean him, his companions, or both at the same time.



The way I think I would run this is to perhaps draw the players into thinking about wriggling out of it on the most trivial technicalities. The game, is to come up with frivolous interpretations and perniciously literal readings. To help the players, a competitor of Barbosa's might offer their services as demonic attorney. Allow a DM to feed the group a few suggestions to get them started.

I mean the Devil has most likely already be doing the "trivial technicalities" thing.

That pact really is Barbosa's ticket to greater power.

[clearstream]

Part of the deal also included that Barbosa was unable to harm the players or the deal was void. Only the one PC's soul was on the line, though was dependent on the rest of the character's actions.

Yes, this might be the worst deal in the history of deals, especially given that it came out of a situation where the players had Barbosa over a barrel (they could have killed him).
However, it's an experienced player, and he's already role playing a Warlock dip and has the Shield of the Hidden Lord, so maybe he was just leaning into the idea of being compromised. Both parties added the clause with the (overt) attempt to protect themselves from future attack, and I started to think about ways the Devil would twist it after the fact, and boy are there some. I agree with some posters that it could go too far with some players/ groups, but I think in this case it should make for some interesting dilemmas down the road.
See my post above. I don't think the party is totally screwed at all, provided they're willing to get litigious. Just make a very close reading of the terms.

[clearstream]

The word "or" is not formally exclusive, even if it is often treated that way. "him or his companions" can mean him, his companions, or both at the same time.
This misses the point a little: would you really argue that way if your immortal soul depended on the formally exclusive being true?

If my immortal soul were on the line, then that or is an OR unless you can prove that the parties did not intend it that way (and I know that I certainly did intend it that way... or at least, that's the story I am sticking to).

[Unoriginal]

This misses the point a little: would you really argue that way if your immortal soul depended on the formally exclusive being true?

If my immortal soul were on the line, then that or is an OR unless you can prove that the parties did not intend it that way (and I know that I certainly did intend it that way... or at least, that's the story I am sticking to).

My point was that while it can be argued, it is not a definitive proof, meaning that it will be decided by the rest of the contract's legalese or by a court.

And I don't expect a PC who agreed to that deal when they were in a position of power over the Devil to have worded the rest of the legalese to their advantage.


See my post above. I don't think the party is totally screwed at all, provided they're willing to get litigious. Just make a very close reading of the terms.

I don't think the party is screwed, and neither is the PC who did the pact, but out-litigating or out-exact-wording a Devil is no small task.

It's not a candidate for the worst deal ever because it's impossible to get out of, it's a candidate for the worst deal ever because the price and the conditions for said price to be paid are ridiculous compared to the benefits.

[clearstream]

I don't think the party is screwed, and neither is the PC who did the pact, but out-litigating or out-exact-wording a Devil is no small task.

It's not a candidate for the worst deal ever because it's impossible to get out of, it's a candidate for the worst deal ever because the price and the conditions for said price to be paid are ridiculous compared to the benefits.
They might seem very reasonable, to a character confident of being able to finagle over the literal meaning!

And even if they made a foolish deal, as DM I can use that create highly enjoyable moments in a shared narrative. Oops, how the heck do they get out of this?! Things going right all the time? No mistakes? Yawn.

[Unoriginal]

They might seem very reasonable, to a character confident of being able to finagle over the literal meaning!

And even if they made a foolish deal, as DM I can use that create highly enjoyable moments in a shared narrative. Oops, how the heck do they get out of this?! Things going right all the time? No mistakes? Yawn.

Certainly true.

Wonder if Barbosa would be the kind to give the PC a chance to get out of the deal... provided they make a deal with Barbosa's boss (with the boss paying Barbosa's compensation fee).

[CapnWildefyr]

Well, "his soul being forfeit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil." is bad, but maybe not as bad as it seems at first.

It's easy to extend the meaning of the word "harm," but you can argue it more narrowly as well. What about "utter destruction"? That's not "harm," harm implies Barbosa is still around. If Barbosa is gone, utterly, he not only can't collect, but was destroyed, not harmed.

Besides, if he meant "harm to any of my friends, allies, or interests," why didn't he specify that? He only specified harm to his person.

We can play semantic games all day long with this one -- and it would be fun. But, utterly destroyed, Barbosa has nothing. Non-entities can't collect a soul. There is no clause assigning the soul to anyone else in the event of his demise, so... too bad. However -- I do not own Descent, and I don't know if utter destruction is possible in this context.

What's more important for the player is to steer any legal defense into a domain where the devil in charge of making the decisions has something to gain by Barbosa's failure here -- and little to gain by, say, getting servitude from Barbosa in exchange for letting him have that soul. If Barbosa's alive, he can always bargain with the judge so that the character loses. If he's dead, you want the judge to be someone who has profited from that and who has nothing to gain and no implied right to collect on Barbosa's debt -- basically, a devil from another faction.

Or, can they trap Barbosa's soul? That does not harm him in any way. That's just smart contract renegotiation.

[Segev]

In terms of wiggle room for the PCs, if the contract does refer to "harming his guide," then when the devil is no longer his guide, it would be arguable that it no longer applies.

[MaxWilson]

In terms of wiggle room for the PCs, if the contract does refer to "harming his guide," then when the devil is no longer his guide, it would be arguable that it no longer applies.

"You're fired" said the rogue, as he backstabbed the astonished fiend.

[noob]

Step 1: Turn the barbed devil into something else.
Step 2: Now you have the right to harm or kill it.
It is the devil that trapped itself by specifying too much(specifying "his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil" so when the last clause stops being true of that creature it is no longer protected).
Please note that a soul have a low value so the devil have more interest in using that contract to keep the adventurers working for it and giving their wealth rather than getting their souls.

[Segev]

Step 1: Turn the barbed devil into something else.
Step 2: Now you have the right to harm or kill it.
It is the devil that trapped itself by specifying too much(specifying "his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil" so when the last clause stops being true of that creature it is no longer protected).
Please note that a soul have a low value so the devil have more interest in using that contract to keep the adventurers working for it and giving their wealth rather than getting their souls.

All of this is worth complimenting as cool and clever, but the underlined bit deserves special emphasis as how I think you can make this a more flavorful, fun thing going forward. Make it something he can use as leverage to get the party to do things for him. Start it off with him using it as an excuse why he trusts the party not to screw him over in deals that seem strangely fair. Make them legitimately things that Barbosa needs agents to do for him, but maybe they'd do anyway. It's just, with this clause hanging over them, he can be sure they'll act to harm his rivals rather than his own interests.

He can push this into questionable territory where heroes might not normally be trusted not to turn around and screw him over by stopping his own interests. At worst, at this stage, the heroes will refuse to take further contracts from him. That's when he can start being more nefarious. (Though he may not wish to be, lest they start finding ways to wiggle out of it.)

He has people who want to cause trouble down here, and who will disrupt the power structures where they get involved. They are barred from harming him. He can get a LOT out of this directed mayhem screwing over his rivals and leaving his own efforts intact. He should exploit this, rather than short-sightedly seeking to create a "gotcha" to take the guy's soul through exact-wording the agreement. It's much more valuable to have the contract than to have the soul, right now.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

All of this is worth complimenting as cool and clever, but the underlined bit deserves special emphasis as how I think you can make this a more flavorful, fun thing going forward. Make it something he can use as leverage to get the party to do things for him. Start it off with him using it as an excuse why he trusts the party not to screw him over in deals that seem strangely fair. Make them legitimately things that Barbosa needs agents to do for him, but maybe they'd do anyway. It's just, with this clause hanging over them, he can be sure they'll act to harm his rivals rather than his own interests.

He can push this into questionable territory where heroes might not normally be trusted not to turn around and screw him over by stopping his own interests. At worst, at this stage, the heroes will refuse to take further contracts from him. That's when he can start being more nefarious. (Though he may not wish to be, lest they start finding ways to wiggle out of it.)

He has people who want to cause trouble down here, and who will disrupt the power structures where they get involved. They are barred from harming him. He can get a LOT out of this directed mayhem screwing over his rivals and leaving his own efforts intact. He should exploit this, rather than short-sightedly seeking to create a "gotcha" to take the guy's soul through exact-wording the agreement. It's much more valuable to have the contract than to have the soul, right now.

I think you are correct as I think about it more. Devils are thinking about playing the long game, so the more he can leverage out of the situation the better.

[Teklese]

I would mess with the party in a few different ways. The first being that Barbosa leads them around in circles getting them into trouble in the end to find out they weren't very far away when they started.

Also you could do something along the line that time is different in hell. a week could be much longer.

I would also have him messing with them the entire time. Whispers to one party member while the PC who's soul is on the line is watching, making it seem like he is working on some kind of deal behind his back. He could also mess with their dreams making them see things. perhaps also making the PC's who soul is on the line seeing the party member who Barbosa was talking to betraying him and the party.

Barbosa could also work on endearing himself to the party making it look like he is helping them more then what the contract said, Then at some point have it where he has to save them from a greater demon. When his time is up as their guide and the job is done. He tells them that the party has to help him become a higher demon then the greater demon because harm will come to him for helping them. And if they don't help him its just like harming him themself since it was them that put him in the situation. He can also point out that they are bound to help him forever because the deal was "his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil."

The contract part of Ever states the length of time and guide part states who the person is not the length of time. This could be used as a hook to make Barbosa a recurring baddie who they have to help and stop at the same time. Think Crowley from supernatural.

[Unoriginal]

At the very least the Deivl could guide the Pcs through Demon groups and outposts he wants destroyed, then take the credit for it (not a lie, either)

[Red Fel]

I think Red Fel has made some good posts on this sort of thing. Perhaps we should summon Red Fel to this thread.

... Red Fel.

Oh, mercy me, I've been busy. But here I am, and as far as anyone's concerned, I'm entirely on time.


So only 1 session into the Avernus part of Descent into Avernus, the party thought they needed a guide and one of them has signed off on his soul being forfit should he (or his companions) ever harm his guide, Barbosa the Terrible, a Barbed Devil.
So I'm thinking once the guiding service is over (1 week; boy he made a bad deal) the Barbed Devil will arrange some sort of trap where the characters come across a situation where some innocents are going to die, but by disabling the trap Barbosa will be harmed. I'm thinking an infernal war machine could be barreling down on the innocents maybe driven by Barbosa, or that in changing course the war machine will slam into him instead.
Anybody have any other ideas? I feel this could be a running theme until Barbosa gets what he wants. Oh and the characters were smart enough to write in that Barbosa had to identify himself, so he can't be harmed while hidden or in disguise, etc.
Thanks in advance.

Well, starting point: I don't know the module, so disregard anything I suggest if it doesn't jive with what you're doing or going for.

Now, the first thing to keep in mind is that an infernal compact isn't about screwing over the players arbitrarily. The point of "the devil's in the details" is that the punchline is something the PCs should have foreseen, not some "clever" thing a DM comes up with like, "Aha, it was written in invisible ink!" The point is to hoist the PCs by their own petard - ideally, to make the PCs regret a condition they put in the contract.

For example, "The said undersigned Infernal may cause no harm, through deliberate or indirect action, to the said undersigned mortals." Well, what if the mortals have been poisoned? As it happens, the said undersigned Infernal possesses an antidote to this poison. Sadly, it must be injected - and per the terms of the contract, he cannot inject them with the needle, as this would cause them harm, he explains, feigning impotent despair as the life fades from their eyes.

So, in looking over this agreement, honestly... yeah, it's a bad deal. Too bad, in fact. That's why I agree with Segev. Don't make this the deal that screws the players - make this the deal that entices them. If every contract devil used every compact as an attempt to totally screw over the mortal, people would eventually stop taking the bait. You want the PCs to lose? Let them win this one.

Yes. This profoundly stupid deal written by an imbecile. Let them win. Let them think they managed to get one over on an eternal being of Law and Evil whose very existence is dedicated to exploitative bargains. And let him be pleasant and helpful the entire time. Let them be completely taken aback by just how helpful this friendly infernal is.

And then, when the contract ends and the PCs are none the worse for wear, let them come back for more. Let him give the PCs his card - "If you're ever in the mood for a fair trade, don't hesitate to look me up again." Let this be his opportunity to gather intel on them, in plain sight. Let him spend the time innocently asking them questions about themselves, their lives, their hopes and dreams - occasionally insinuating that he considers such things trivial to accomplish.

First taste is free. It's the next one, or perhaps the one after that, that costs you.

[Sigreid]

Worth noting, "refusing to help me against my rivals" can be argued to count as "harming me in a way", and the contract says that the PC is forbidden from harming Barbosa in any way.

So it seems like the PCs can get stuck doing enforcer duties.

Don't have to go that far. What are the odds that someone in the party will do or say something that "hurts his feelings"?

[Unoriginal]

Oh, mercy me, I've been busy. But here I am, and as far as anyone's concerned, I'm entirely on time.



Well, starting point: I don't know the module, so disregard anything I suggest if it doesn't jive with what you're doing or going for.

Now, the first thing to keep in mind is that an infernal compact isn't about screwing over the players arbitrarily. The point of "the devil's in the details" is that the punchline is something the PCs should have foreseen, not some "clever" thing a DM comes up with like, "Aha, it was written in invisible ink!" The point is to hoist the PCs by their own petard - ideally, to make the PCs regret a condition they put in the contract.

For example, "The said undersigned Infernal may cause no harm, through deliberate or indirect action, to the said undersigned mortals." Well, what if the mortals have been poisoned? As it happens, the said undersigned Infernal possesses an antidote to this poison. Sadly, it must be injected - and per the terms of the contract, he cannot inject them with the needle, as this would cause them harm, he explains, feigning impotent despair as the life fades from their eyes.

So, in looking over this agreement, honestly... yeah, it's a bad deal. Too bad, in fact. That's why I agree with Segev. Don't make this the deal that screws the players - make this the deal that entices them. If every contract devil used every compact as an attempt to totally screw over the mortal, people would eventually stop taking the bait. You want the PCs to lose? Let them win this one.

Yes. This profoundly stupid deal written by an imbecile. Let them win. Let them think they managed to get one over on an eternal being of Law and Evil whose very existence is dedicated to exploitative bargains. And let him be pleasant and helpful the entire time. Let them be completely taken aback by just how helpful this friendly infernal is.

And then, when the contract ends and the PCs are none the worse for wear, let them come back for more. Let him give the PCs his card - "If you're ever in the mood for a fair trade, don't hesitate to look me up again." Let this be his opportunity to gather intel on them, in plain sight. Let him spend the time innocently asking them questions about themselves, their lives, their hopes and dreams - occasionally insinuating that he considers such things trivial to accomplish.

First taste is free. It's the next one, or perhaps the one after that, that costs you.

That would be interesting, but on the other hand, I don't see this particular Devil play a longer con when he can get an actual payday almost certainly (after using the group as enforcers by guiding them through places he wants cleared). Barbed devils are low enough on the totem pole that practicing delayed gratification when the customer goes "you know what, it's the first taste, but I insist on paying" would be met with an ok.

On the other hand, I could see Barbosa's boss going "here's your payment, it's my case now, Im handle it before you ruin this opportunity".

[Segev]

That would be interesting, but on the other hand, I don't see this particular Devil play a longer con when he can get an actual payday almost certainly (after using the group as enforcers by guiding them through places he wants cleared). Barbed devils are low enough on the totem pole that practicing delayed gratification when the customer goes "you know what, it's the first taste, but I insist on paying" would be met with an ok.

On the other hand, I could see Barbosa's boss going "here's your payment, it's my case now, Im handle it before you ruin this opportunity".

To me, it's not even "the first hit is free" in this case. This is so overwhelming a forfeit and so long-reaching a benefit that Barbosa is in his own best interests to keep the party around. This is a group of adventurers bound not to harm him! Help them on their quest as far as their depredations will harm his rivals and let him keep his hands clean!