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Rowanomicon
2007-11-08, 02:20 AM
OK, I'm building a character and I'd like some advice/help.

I have access to most books, but am unfamiliar with most books so please specify where something you suggest is from.

Starting level is 5, standard gold.

This character will be in Forgotten Realms. That's one of the biggest things I need help with as I am quite unfamiliar with the setting. I'd love suggestions for gods and regions as well as races.

I'll probably have to roll stats in front of my DM. If that's the case I'll let you know when I know. Until then assume 32 point buy if you have to.

AslanCross
2007-11-08, 02:39 AM
Well, it'll depend on what you have planned for your cleric, RP-wise. Off the top of my head:

For a good cleric, get Lathander (NG), the god of the sun, youth, and creativity. He has access to the Strength and Sun domains. (He's right in the FRCS and Player's Guide to Faerun; I would suggest looking up both as PGTF updates some of the FRCS material to 3.5) Tyr (LG god of justice) has access to the War domain, so you might want to look him up too.) Corellon is also available in FR, so you could go for him if you want a good Elf cleric.

For a Neutral cleric: Red Knight (LN) and Tempus (CN) have access to the War domain. Tempus is the greater war deity, and Red Knight is his protege. Tempus has access to both Strength and War domains, so he sounds like an ideal choice. Shevarash (CN Elf god of pwning enemies of the elves) might be a good alternative, though I don't think he has access to Strength. The barbarian god Uthgar (CN) is also a substitute for Tempus as he has Strength and War as well.

Evil clerics could go for Deep Duerra (LE Dwarf) or Selvetarm (CE Drow) if they want to go for the War domain.

All the domains of the deities are found in PGTF. Details on all of them are found in Faiths and Pantheons.

tyckspoon
2007-11-08, 02:48 AM
You'll want to distribute your stats the same way you would for a Fighter, mostly. Strength and Con are going to be important; Dex not so much. Wisdom should be reasonably high, but don't make too much sacrifice; 14-16 would be fine for a starting score. You'll be casting most of your spells on yourself or other willing targets, so you don't need the extra save DC points, and you should be able to get enough stat boosts in the course of the game to keep up with the minimum requirements for your spell levels. Charisma is not especially important for the role you're looking at; if it turns out to be high, that's handy for getting more Turn uses, but it's not necessary.

Most of your combat power is going to come from self-buffing; therefore, you want to get Quicken Spell so that you don't have to spend as much time casting spells before you can break heads. Spells you especially want are: Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might. Those are all available at d20srd.org, if you want to look them up quickly.

Other feats: Divine Might and Divine Shield, both in Complete Warrior- burn a turn attempt to add your Cha bonus to weapon damage and AC, respectively. Fairly good if you wound up with a decent Charisma.

Divine Metamagic: Use turn attempts to spontaneously apply metamagic. Complete Divine, plus some errata.

Extra Turning: If you're making heavy use of Turn Undead-based feats, especially Divine Metamagic, you're going to burn your standard turning allotment pretty quickly.

That's the basic stuff. I'm sure somebody around here who knows the Realms (and some other splatbooks) better can direct you to more tasty spells or feats.

Edit: Oh, right, Domains. A domain is good if it either has a really nice granted power (Magic Domain: Use spell completion/spell trigger items as if you were a wizard) or it contains good spells from other casting lists (Animal, for example, has some of the nicer Druid spells and caps with Shapechange.) If it has both (Travel! The granted power is a Freedom of Movement-lite, and the spell list has Fly and Teleport), it's just awesome. Taking Strength and Destruction would give you an impressive nova strike; Strength gives a Strength bonus equal to your cleric level for 1 round, Destruction gives a Smite for +4 to hit and damage bonus equal to your cleric level to one attack. Power Attack for all you're worth and watch something die.

The spell list for Destruction isn't particularly impressive; Disintegrate is probably the standout there at higher level and it would give you something to do if for some reason you can't just smash something. Strength isn't bad; the granted power lasts for a full round, so you can enjoy it if you get a full attack, and the spell list has a number of spells you'll be casting a lot of anyway. Stick 'em in your domain slot and you can save your normal allotment for other spells.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-08, 03:07 AM
I'm definitely going to make him non-evil, but other than that alignment doesn't matter too much. I'm still working on backstory/personality right now so just worry about mechanics in this thread.

Quicken Spell, got it, good idea.

Divine Might/Shield, definitely worth it if I end up with a decent Cha. I'd say definitely worth it with 14+, but what about 12/13?

I'm not very familiar with Divine Metamagic, what should I be looking at doing here?

I think my Stat priorities go: Str, Con, Wis, Cha, Dex, Int (no?) I'm going to be doing mithral full plate armor as soon as possible so 16 Dex, after magical enhancements, would be nice.

Power Attack, right. I knew there was something really obvious I was forgetting because I'm tired. THF is a good call too I think...
Could two hand a one hand weapon so I don't need Somatic Weapon (or whatever it's called).

As far as effectiveness at higher levels goes: I don't know how long I'm going to be in this game so I'm looking at optimal for 6th/7th (maybe 8th) level. Definitely don't need to worry about anything beyond 12th for the time being.

tyckspoon
2007-11-08, 03:31 AM
Hmm. Well, at that level range, you won't be able to make very good use of Quicken; it's expensive in terms of spell levels. You could get some use from Extend to help make your spells last longer- Magic Weapon and Magic Vestments are hour/level duration, so Extending them could easily make them last through your full adventuring day at lower levels, and at higher levels you can Extend your min/level and 10 min/level spells to help make sure they last for more than one encounter.

Divine Metamagic requires you to apply it to a metamagic feat you already have, so it can be expensive, feat-wise. It'd look something like this:

Extend Spell
Divine Metamagic (Extend Spell)

You can now extend spells in two ways: You can prepare them as Extended Spells normally, which makes it a spell level higher, or you can use Divine Metamagic to Extend any spell when you cast it at a cost of (1+ metamagic adjustment) turn attempts. For Extend, it'd cost 2 attempts.

I think at 12 Cha, you'd be better off feeding those turn uses into Divine Metamagic. 12 Cha would let you Extend 2 spells; in your daily routine, that would probably be Magic Vestment on your armor and (Greater) Magic Weapon on your weapon. 14 or better, Might and Shield start looking better; Might can be used quickly, so you can go ahead and burn it any time you can get off a full attack, and Shield has a duration (cleric levels/2) so you can add it to your buff routine if you get some extra time.

AslanCross
2007-11-08, 04:19 AM
Divine Metamagic basically lets you apply a metamagic effect to one of your spells by sacrificing some turn/rebuke undead uses. Check Complete Divine for the details.

Yeah, the Destruction domain's Smite ability would be good combined with the Strength domain's ability. Deities who get Destruction are mostly evil, though, with the exception of the elemental deities Kossuth and Istishia (fire and water, respectively) and Garagos, a minor war god. (CN)

Curmudgeon
2007-11-08, 07:04 AM
The usual route for a divine caster/melee type is to play a Cleric with the War domain to get weapon proficiency and Weapon Focus with your War deity's favored weapon.

There's an alternative option though: play a Favored Soul (Complete Divine). They get those weapon options for their deity's favored weapon and also eventually Weapon Specialization. But the FS's deity doesn't need to be a War god. You could, for example, pick Kossuth (FRCS page 234) and get proficiency with the spiked chain.

A Favored Soul is the divine equivalent of a Sorcerer -- a spontaneous caster. It might not be what you want, but it can't hurt to look.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-08, 02:39 PM
I'm definitely going to look at Favoured Soul (right now in fact)!
Also a Spiked chain would be really cool. I haven't played a character with a spiked chain since we tried to transfer comic characters into D&D and I was Ghost Rider.

I know Complete Divine has all sorts of cool stuff in it for playing Clerics and that type of character, but I only own it on pdf (and haven't had it long) so I haven't looked through it and don't feel like spending too long reading the computer.
So, while I will do some looking through, any specific suggestions are greatly appreciated.

So Divine Metamagic costs an extra feat, but lets you pay turn attempts instead of spell levels. Cool.

EDIT: Well if I took Favoured Soul instead of Cleric I'd have to use a feat on Heavy Armor Proficiency (it's a one show deal right? Or is it with only single kind of armor?).

tyckspoon
2007-11-08, 05:33 PM
Heavy Armor Proficiency would give you proficiency with every kind of heavy armor, yes. However, if you can afford mithral, you don't need it- mithral makes the armor an armor category lighter in every respect, so a Mithral Full Plate is actually Medium armor.

The Favored Soul isn't a bad choice, but there's a couple of things they lose out on that make the normal cleric more effective: Favored Souls don't get Turning, so they can't use Divine feats. And they cast spontaneously, which means they have trouble using metamagic. A normal Cleric built for melee is more optimal; if your group normally plays to a higher level of optimization, the cleric will fit in better.

Stormcrow
2007-11-08, 05:46 PM
Talos is the god of storms and very combatty. Stormlord originally came from his elite clerics.

Tempus is the god of battles and they make for some awesome clerics.

cupkeyk
2007-11-08, 05:49 PM
Hohoho, Our favorite God is Gond, God of Crafts.

Why? he has planning and metal as his domains. Planning nets you extend spell. Extend spell nets you perma-cheese.

Metal domain nets you martial weapon proficiency maul.

Another Favorite is Anhur, whose favored weapon is a falchion and has access to war domain. Not optimal, just awesome.

Red Knight also has planning, and war. So divine permacheese but you have a crappy light mace.

Sornjss Lichdom
2007-11-08, 05:54 PM
ok so you need a war domain, and I'd take a human for the extra feat.

After looking for them I'd say Garagos, for the Alignment flexablility, and the domains. probably do Destruction, Wrath, or Strength, to complelement your war domain.

As said before most of your spells should be self buffs and heal stuff. almost no offensive stuff, no matter how fun it looks. use stuff like bulls strength, and constution boast. also AC boast, and weapon boast.

For fluff, carry around tons of weapons, like axes, daggers, whips, and swords. Carry them on your back, and your longsword (dieties favored weapon) at your hip. Try a weapon speacalization and some GWF, If you really want to you can multiclass into fighter. Challange people to duels and stuff, also study up for battle formations and what not.

thats all i got for now.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-08, 08:25 PM
I don't think I'll multiclass into Fighter unless it means getting into some great PrC faster.

Speaking of which, any suggestions for PrCs?

I figured that Clerics were more optimal. Might go with either, not sure yet.

Is War Domain really that important? I mean if I want to get proficiency with something specific yeah, but it doesn't seem like a "must" really, just a decent option.

Temp
2007-11-08, 08:43 PM
Holy Warrior from Complete Champion actually makes War somewhat worthwhile.

Prestige classes for Clerics? Clerics are good enough that all those are either horribly imbalanced or not worth your time.

That said, Church Inquisitor, Contemplative and Radiant Servant are the first to come to mind.

Iku Rex
2007-11-08, 08:46 PM
Is War Domain really that important? The War Domain is handy if you can use Complete Champion, since it lets you pick the Holy Warrior feat. (Damage bonus on all attacks equal to the highest level War domain spell you have prepared.) A deity with the War domain also lets you use the 4000 gp Gauntlets of War for +3 damage.

Weapon Focus and Martial Weapon Proficiency aren't that big a deal. Other domain powers and spells are better.

Do you have any idea what kind of character you'd like beyond "melee cleric"? Where in the realms will the campaign take place?

AslanCross
2007-11-08, 08:46 PM
Going full cleric is certainly more optimal than taking say, the Warpriest PrC. (Though flavor-wise I love the Warpriest)
You might look into the deity-specific prestige classes such as Battleguard of Tempus. It sacrifices a single caster level, though its casting progression is certainly better than that of Warpriest. (I'm not exactly sure what book it comes from, I saw a PDF of it on Google, don't know if it's official).

EDIT: It apparently appeared in Dragon #317.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-08, 08:51 PM
The campaign is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hand_of_Doom (Red Hand of Doom)

I don't know much about it (I haven't even read that wikipedia article).

martyboy74
2007-11-08, 09:30 PM
If you are planning on using Divine Metamagic, and will be at a fairly high level, the Lust domain is very handy for self-buffing; it's domain power gives you a bonus to your charisma score equal to your cleric level.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-08, 09:51 PM
Wont be playing at high levels.

I'm still unsure as to whether or nor Divine Metamagic will really be worth it at these levels.

Toliudar
2007-11-08, 10:46 PM
At the levels you're playing, Divine Metamagic (Persistent) is NOT worth it. DMM (quicken) - for a buff that then is followed by an attack - might be.
Costly, in terms of feats. Three feats (Quicken Spell, DMM - Quicken, and probably Extra Turning, to get an additional daily use of the effect.

War Domain is nice, not just for the free feat, but also because the low-level spells are all likely to remain useful as selections, at least until everyone has enough magic weapons to go around and Magic Weapon drops away. Strength is that way, too.

Travel is actually my favourite domain for melee-focused clerics, because it has spells (Longstrider, Fly, Dimension Door) that allow you to get into the thick of the action and stay there, regardless of what happens. And the granted ability rocks.

Person_Man
2007-11-09, 09:40 AM
Do you know what race you want to be? There are a lot of race specific feats out there in the FR. I personally would suggest Dwarf or Orc. But really its a roleplaying decision.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-09, 01:17 PM
Well I don't know much of anything about FR specific races and their race specific feats, but I was thinking either Dwarf or Human.

I'm thinking about Elf too and going for an eldar-school Tolkien style BAMF Elf hero.

SadisticFishing
2007-11-09, 01:21 PM
Ordained Champion (CCha) is actually pretty good for a melee cleric. 5 level prestige class, you get to spontaneously cast quickened war domain spells, you get some smites... All at the cost of two caster levels >.> All in all pretty good.

AslanCross
2007-11-09, 05:46 PM
Well I don't know much of anything about FR specific races and their race specific feats, but I was thinking either Dwarf or Human.

I'm thinking about Elf too and going for an eldar-school Tolkien style BAMF Elf hero.

Well, FR really doesn't have have that unique races that aren't planetouched. Many of the unique races are either monstrous or specific to a certain area (like the Underdark). Dwarf or Human would be just fine.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-09, 07:40 PM
I meant they have different subraces.

Even though Dwarf or Human would be more mechanically optimal I think I'll go with an Elf race just because I've been thinking of playing a badass super-warrior Tolkienesque Elf and it would be many shades of awesome.

I can't believe I've never done that before...

I'll look into Ordained Champion, but I'm fairly reluctant to give up caster levels.

AslanCross
2007-11-09, 08:22 PM
Hmmm, Corellon would be the ideal deity if you want to go melee elf. Shevarash is an archer-type, so you wouldn't get the best proficiency.

Rowanomicon
2007-11-09, 09:59 PM
Well I might be off to build the character tonight so I'l post the stats if I do.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.