What's your favourite "Western" movie?

[halfeye]

Mine is without a doubt "Lawman". I first saw it in an otherwise empty house on my first day there when the other people had gone out for a couple of hours and the rats were playing in the walls, so that was exciting. I still think it's the best of its breed though.

[LibraryOgre]

A classic favorite for me is "The Cowboys", partially for this:


Jebediah Nightlinger: [praying to God before he's about to hanged by Asa Watts and his gang] I regret trifling with married women. I'm thoroughly ashamed at cheating at cards. I deplore my occasional departures from the truth. Forgive me for taking your name in vain, my Saturday drunkenness, my Sunday sloth. Above all, forgive me for the men I've killed in anger [eyes shifting to Asa Watts] ... and those I am about to.

Growing up, my brothers really liked Silverado, but I never got as in to it.

[dps]

True Grit, the John Wayne version.

[thompur]

Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

[Rogar Demonblud]

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. The score alone makes sure of that.

[halfeye]

I forgot to say why The Lawman is the best for me: It's about a good man, the Lawman of the title, going bad. It's about people being scared of death, and their reactions to that, and those are pretty well acted all around. There are occasional slight mistakes, the animals eating the corpse of the horse are African (it was at least partly filmed in Africa), but on the whole it's pretty good, and the scenery is nice.

[Palanan]

Silverado is my favorite by a mile.

Action, panache, some great character moments, and an absolutely outstanding score.

[Rynjin]

I had to stop myself from sarcastically saying The Magnificent Seven (the original) in the Samurai movie thread, so maybe that.

I have a soft spot in my heart for Mclintock as well; used to watch it a lot with my mom.

[Tyrant]

My favorite is probably Tombstone. Mainly for the performances, in particular Val Kilmer(easily the best performance I have ever seen from him, like way above and beyond his usual). The rest of the cast isn't exactly slouching either featuring: Kurt Russell, Sam Elliott, Bill Paxton, Powers Booth, Michael Biehn, Stephen Lang, Michael Rooker, Billy Zane, and many others including a Charlton Heston cameo. That's a similar reason to why I like Silverado but I think Tombstone is the better movie.

Honorable mentions: Pale Rider, The Good The Bad and The Ugly, and Open Range

[Rogar Demonblud]

I have a soft spot in my heart for Mclintock as well; used to watch it a lot with my mom.

Maureen O'Hara was in fine form, wasn't she?

"Why Mrs McLintock, you have a black eye. Did someone give that to you?"

"No, I won it!"

[hamishspence]

Paint Your Wagon is more "Gold Rush" than "Cowboys" but it's still a Western, and a musical one at that. The songs are very catchy.

[Manga Shoggoth]

My father used to like then, but I didn't much care for westerns.

I used to like the Man with no Name westerns (The Good, The Bad and The Ugly was OK), but I think the western I enjoyed the most was They Call Me Trinity. It helped that it was an out-and-out comedy that refused to take itself seriously.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Have you seen "Trinity is Still My Name"? The two actors also made many other films together, so you might want to check a few out--I know some at least are on Prime Video.

[Manga Shoggoth]

Have you seen "Trinity is Still My Name"? The two actors also made many other films together, so you might want to check a few out--I know some at least are on Prime Video.

Yes, indeed. It was fun, but not as much as the first one. I don't really have much time for watcing films these days, though.

[Trafalgar]

"The Searchers" - Directed by John Ford and starring John Wayne. It's a really dark movie for a 1950s western. It has a lot to say about racism, treatment of Native Americans, obsession, hatred, and redemption. Best cinematography of any of John Ford's Monument Valley westerns.

[Jan Mattys]

"Once upon a time in the west", Sergio Leone's masterpiece.

[Clertar]

In the classic era, The man who shot Liberty Valance.

Sergio Leone's spaghetti westerns are fenomenal, and they were genre-shaping. But perhaps I would have to go with Unforgiven, with Eastwood himself helming one of the peaks of the anti-western.

For western-adjacent movies, I've always loved Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.

[comicshorse]

Honourable mentions for : Unforgiven, True Grit (both are good but I slightly prefer the Coen brothers version) and Tombstone

Best ever : The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

[Peelee]

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Mostly because I never really liked westerns all that much but saw that one recently and loved it and decided that maybe I like westerns made in Italy. I need to check out the other ones.

[Imbalance]

Quigley Down Under
The White Buffalo

My favorite western series is Trigun.

[Kitten Champion]

Do any of the above movies have an 80 foot mechanical spider in them?

I rest my case.

[Peelee]

Do any of the above movies have an 80 foot mechanical spider in them?

I rest my case.

Keys to a good western:

1.) Can't wear the suit.
2.) No flying.
3.) Must fight a giant spider in the third act.

[LibraryOgre]

Quigley Down Under


Forgot about Quigley.

[Peelee]

Same, I liked that one a lot. Also the one with DiCaprio.

[Dire_Flumph]

"Once upon a time in the west", Sergio Leone's masterpiece.

Seconded. Such a beautiful work of art.

[Misereor]

"Once upon a time in the west", Sergio Leone's masterpiece.

Seconded. Nailed the music, camera work, plot, and character arcs.

Honorable mentions to Tombstone, Unforgiven, and Maverick, in their respective sub genres.

[Misereor]

Keys to a good western:

1.) Can't wear the suit.
2.) No flying.
3.) Must fight a giant spider in the third act.

Well, you know spiders are the most dangerous predators in all of nature...

[Aedilred]

Once Upon a Time in the West. Not only do I think it's the best but it's also the film that did most to change my mind about westerns, which I had not previously been particularly interested in as a genre.

But I will also give an honourable mention to three others:
Tombstone was, for years, the only western I had really sat down and watched, and actually enjoyed. When I became more familiar with the genre, and watching it back now, it doesn't hold up as well as I'd have hoped - though it's still not bad. Val Kilmer and Michael Biehn stole the film, which is all the more remarkable considering that within three years both of them had basically vanished without trace.
For a Few Dollars More was the film that, together with Once Upon a Time..., persuaded me that maybe there was something in this Westerns lark. I saw it one night on TV when I had nothing better to do and found Lee van Cleef's character particularly affecting. By the end I was sold on at least watching Once Upon a Time... and seeing what I thought of that. And since then I've never really looked back.which
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. I can't give any particularly good reason why this stands out as a favourite, except maybe that unlike other westerns which I think are strictly better (The Searchers, True Grit (2010), The Assassination of Jesse James...) it packs a bit of a punch without being emotionally draining. There's a bit of ham on display, the nearly 60-year-old John Wayne makes a somewhat ludicrous romantic rival, and some might find the juxtaposition of the squeaky-clean James Stewart and the cartoonish Lee Marvin a bit on-the-nose, but there's also an interesting undercurrent about the place of violence in society and the nature of truth in the public sphere.

[Rodin]

Blazing Saddles.

If we're restricting it to serious Westerns? High Noon. Iconic gunslinger showdown and his wife gets to kick some ass too.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Seeing the mention of Lee Van Cleef reminds me to mention Have Gun Will Travel. Not a movie, but probably the best western tv series.

[Mordar]

Same, I liked that one a lot. Also the one with DiCaprio.

Do you mean "The Quick and the Dead"? That's like...Western porn.

It is hard for me to pick a favorite. In no particular order...Magnificent Seven (Yul Brenner, but also liked Denzel Washington's), Fistful of Dollars, Rooster Cogburn/Big Jake/True Grit (I cannot pick a favorite JW movie, so it is always those three). I came to The Searchers much later, and totally appreciate it for all that it is, but it never captured me like JW as Rooster or Jake.

I liked Tombstone (at least, I liked about 60% of it), Silverado (about the same) and the new Magnificent Seven...but for me the 60s era (and early 70s) have my favorites.

- M

[comicshorse]

Same, I liked that one a lot. Also the one with DiCaprio.

'The Quick and the Dead' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Quick_and_the_Dead_(1995_film)

Interestingly neither he nor Russel Crowe get a mention on the movie poster. The Val Kilmer/ Michael Biehn thing Aedilred mention but in reverse

PS
Damn, Ninjaed

[Rodin]

Speaking of Yul Brynner, that's another Western-adjacent favorite - Westworld. Technically Sci-Fi, but the setting is still Western.

[Peelee]

Do you mean "The Quick and the Dead"?

'The Quick and the Dead' ?
Yeah, that's it.

That's like...Western porn.

- M
Eh?

[Trafalgar]

Blazing Saddles.

If we're restricting it to serious Westerns? High Noon. Iconic gunslinger showdown and his wife gets to kick some ass too.


Most people don't realize that Blazing Saddles is based on a Edo period samurai movie called Moeru sadoru (dir by Kurosawa). It is essentially the same movie except in the campfire scene, the beans were originally wasabi peas.

[Mordar]

Do you mean "The Quick and the Dead"? That's like...Western porn.

- M


Yeah, that's it.

Eh?

It is a collection of gunfight scenes with a little smattering of...what we can loosely call plot...between them.

Sort of reminiscent of another style of movie.

For those that are only aware of streaming scenes of a prurient nature, once upon a time those scenes would occur in a movie consisting of loosely-stitched together scenes with some actor overlap pretending to tell a story while really just being a vehicle for nakedness escapades.

As such, I consider The Quick and the Dead western porn, Bloodsport martial arts porn, and most any mid-80s movie with Arnold, Sly, Chuck and several others gun/fight porn.

- M

[Peelee]

It is a collection of gunfight scenes with a little smattering of...what we can loosely call plot...between them.

Sort of reminiscent of another style of movie.

For those that are only aware of streaming scenes of a prurient nature, once upon a time those scenes would occur in a movie consisting of loosely-stitched together scenes with some actor overlap pretending to tell a story while really just being a vehicle for nakedness escapades.

As such, I consider The Quick and the Dead western porn, Bloodsport martial arts porn, and most any mid-80s movie with Arnold, Sly, Chuck and several others gun/fight porn.

- M

Ahhh, I getcha.

Though that's not terribly fair to Arnold. Man knew how to pick a script. And First Blood is art. The Rambo and Rocky movies past the first one, I agree with you.

[Mordar]

Ahhh, I getcha.

Though that's not terribly fair to Arnold. Man knew how to pick a script. And First Blood is art. The Rambo and Rocky movies past the first one, I agree with you.

I have huge respect for both. Arnold Schwarzenegger pioneered (or at least perfected) the comedic moment in action films, and I'm one of the first people to remind friends that Sylvester Stallone is a dual Academy Award nominee for acting and writing.

And best of all, both knew how to read their rooms, and both cashed in without selling out. That is, to my mind, their jobs and they were exceptional in their chosen fields.

- M

[truemane]

Most people don't realize that Blazing Saddles is based on a Edo period samurai movie called Moeru sadoru (dir by Kurosawa). It is essentially the same movie except in the campfire scene, the beans were originally wasabi peas.
Can you provide me a source on this? Google has nothing.

I am deeply, intimately familiar with the work of Akira Kurosawa, and very familiar with post-war Japanese cinema and with the work of Mel Brooks. I've never heard of a film called Moeru Sadoru, nor one called anything close to 'Saddle', nor can I recall one whose plot resembles that of Blazing Saddles, neither among the works of Kurosawa, nor any of his contemporaries.

If this is a thing, and I didn't know it, I will be very excited.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's sarcasm, as not every Western is a copy of Kurosawa.

[truemane]

It's sarcasm, as not every Western is a copy of Kurosawa.
OH. RIGHT.

I am not a smart man.

[Jan Mattys]

The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. Mostly because I never really liked westerns all that much but saw that one recently and loved it and decided that maybe I like westerns made in Italy. I need to check out the other ones.

Please do.
It is my personal opinion that "Once upon a time in the West" (a western movie) and "Once upon a time in America" (a gangster movie) both belong to the "Best 50 movies ever made" list.

[Rogar Demonblud]

But not Once Upon a Time in Mexico. Especially given it's an attempt on a sequel to El Mariachi and Desperado (speaking of modern westerns...).

[Clertar]

Please do.
It is my personal opinion that "Once upon a time in the West" (a western movie) and "Once upon a time in America" (a gangster movie) both belong to the "Best 50 movies ever made" list.

Sergio Leone showed that he was a badass director on a shoestring budget, and didn't lose the touch at all when working with 20 times that budget.

I wonder what today's popular veredict stands on the limo scene, and how much De Niro's character would be redeemable in 2021.

[Scarlet Knight]

I was debating so many good ones until I remembered: "The Mark of Zorro" with Tyrone Power.

Face it: how many of you wanted to be Zorro as a kid?

[dps]

A classic favorite for me is "The Cowboys", partially for this:


Jebediah Nightlinger: [praying to God before he's about to hanged by Asa Watts and his gang] I regret trifling with married women. I'm thoroughly ashamed at cheating at cards. I deplore my occasional departures from the truth. Forgive me for taking your name in vain, my Saturday drunkenness, my Sunday sloth. Above all, forgive me for the men I've killed in anger [eyes shifting to Asa Watts] ... and those I am about to.



IMO, one of the greatest bits of dialogue ever written.

[snowblizz]

Paint Your Wagon is more "Gold Rush" than "Cowboys" but it's still a Western, and a musical one at that. The songs are very catchy.

That's an actual thing? I only know it from a The Simpsons reference.


I might have to go with Django Unchained.

[Yora]

I think my number one is probably A Fistful of Dollars. Which is a remake of my favorite Samurai movie Yojimbo. Which is odd, as I usually despise any remakes of movies I love.

It's been ages since I last saw Silverado and can't really remember anything right now, but back in the 90s, the whole family always got excited any time it was on.

[Aedilred]

Ahhh, I getcha.

Though that's not terribly fair to Arnold. Man knew how to pick a script. And First Blood is art. The Rambo and Rocky movies past the first one, I agree with you.
I think Rocky II was a legitimately good movie. It's not as good as the first, but it's much closer to the first in tone than it is to its successors.

Rocky III and IV... I'm not sure that "fight porn" is the right description because there isn't actually a huge amount of fighting in them (although there are a lot of training montages). But they do belong solidly to the category of light entertainment rather than serious cinema. Balboa is a better drama film than III or IV, but the plot is even more preposterous and really it's a credit to the filmmakers that they persuade you to buy into it at all.

Please do.
It is my personal opinion that "Once upon a time in the West" (a western movie) and "Once upon a time in America" (a gangster movie) both belong to the "Best 50 movies ever made" list.
Personally I'd rate The Good, The Bad and the Ugly above ...In America, which I found to be beautifully shot and well-acted but a bit self-indulgent. I still think it's a "great movie" but I don't love it in the same way.

Sergio Leone showed that he was a badass director on a shoestring budget, and didn't lose the touch at all when working with 20 times that budget.

I wonder what today's popular veredict stands on the limo scene, and how much De Niro's character would be redeemable in 2021.
Oof, yeah.
Not just the limo scene, either: there's the bank(?) job earlier in the film, which may be even worse.


That's an actual thing? I only know it from a The Simpsons reference.

It was an actual thing, although the Simpsons presentation of it was inaccurate and tongue-in-cheek. It was a major financial flop, which, when you think about it, a musical starring Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin, you have to wonder how they didn't see coming.

[Peelee]

I think Rocky II was a legitimately good movie. It's not as good as the first, but it's much closer to the first in tone than it is to its successors.

Rocky II undoes everything Rocky does and flies in the face of the entire theme of the original. When Apollo offered Rocky the fight, Rocky said no. He knew he wasn't in Creed's league, he knew it was just a bone thrown to him, just a flash in the pan. But Creed's people kept at it until he thought he had a shot, trained for it, worked himself to the bone, only to find out yet again that it wasn't real. When he told the promoter that the shorts were wrong on the poster, all he got back was "it doesn't really matter, does it?" That was the message of the entire exhibition - it doesn't really matter. It's not a real fight, it's not a shot at the title, it's just a publicity stunt with Rocky as the parade float Apollo rides on. And Rocky decided that he wasn't going to play that game. He wasn't going to try to win, he wasn't going to go for the title, he wasn't going to dance to their tune. He was going to set his own goal. Go the distance, last all fifteen rounds with Creed. And he did, dammit. He doesn't even listen to the announcement declaring the winner, he's focused on Adrian, because he set out what he wanted to achieve. Victory was completely irrelevant. He lost, and more importantly, he didnt care that he lost.

Every other movie about a game or match or competition has the main character win, or lose but with a purpose or message or learning experience. Rocky is the only movie like that where who wins is entirely irrelevant because the main character, and by proxy the audience who care about him, straight up do not give a damn about the outcome. The winner being announced is relegated to background noise, a blink-and-you-miss-it small detail suitable for the answer on a trivia board game. And we also have the main characters' last words to each other which underscore Rocky's personal victory here - "Ain't gonna be no rematch." "Don't want one." Rocky did what he set out to do. He climbed his Everest, he did was nobody else ever had, he had nothing to prove to anyone but himself and he proved it to himself.

And then the sequel comes along and well, he's gotta win.

Hard pass. The sequels are entertaining, sure, but they have no underlying message other than "Rocky is suddenly the underdog again somehow, see how he comes back to win it all!" The first movie completely transcends this. The first movie is art. Hell, that scene the night before the fight in the stadium has more emotional weight than the next four combined. It's the Rocky version of Quint's speech in Jaws, the scene that delivers the entire emotional premise and imparts exactly how the movie wants to make you feel all condensed into five minutes if some of the best filmmaking ever made. It's art.

Rocky II is a popcorn movie. And not even the best one of the Rocky popcorn movies.

[brionl]

It was an actual thing, although the Simpsons presentation of it was inaccurate and tongue-in-cheek. It was a major financial flop, which, when you think about it, a musical starring Clint Eastwood and Lee Marvin, you have to wonder how they didn't see coming.

I like the ending, it's pretty funny. Otherwise the movie drags a lot. And, IIRC, they never actually did paint any wagons.

It's hard to pick my absolute favorite, but Pale Rider and Unforgiven are right near the top of the list. My girlfriend is from the Philippines, so she hasn't seen a lot of westerns. We started out with For A Few Dollars More, and The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly and she liked those. Also Blazing Saddles. We'll probably watch Paint Your Wagon soon, but the last movie we watched together was Mr. Blanding Builds His Dream House, that's more of an Eastern. :smallbiggrin:

[quinron]

Once Upon a Time in the West. Not only do I think it's the best but it's also the film that did most to change my mind about westerns, which I had not previously been particularly interested in as a genre.

Very much the same, though I still haven't seen a lot of them. My mom's a big fan of the classics, but I find them far too boring plot-wise. The spaghetti flicks feel more interesting, and they're a lot more visually compelling.

My primary Western touchstone isn't a movie - it's Have Gun - Will Travel, which admittedly I still haven't seen all the way through. I think my lack of enjoyment of American Westerns owes to the fact that the plots feel like they're being stretched too thin, but condensing them into a half-hour TV show keeps them tight and punchy. Plus, Richard Burton's great in the role.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I think my number one is probably A Fistful of Dollars. Which is a remake of my favorite Samurai movie Yojimbo. Which is odd, as I usually despise any remakes of movies I love.

It's been ages since I last saw Silverado and can't really remember anything right now, but back in the 90s, the whole family always got excited any time it was on.

Part of the appeal of Silverado is that it was the first western in a long time shot in the west, rather than in Sicily. You know all those jokes we make about how everything looks like Vancouver? Same deal.

[Aedilred]

I like the ending, it's pretty funny. Otherwise the movie drags a lot. And, IIRC, they never actually did paint any wagons.
:
I think the best thing about it is Joshua Logan's comment about the production: "Not since Attila the Hun swept across Europe leaving 500 years of total blackness has there been a man like Lee Marvin."

[brionl]

I think the best thing about it is Joshua Logan's comment about the production: "Not since Attila the Hun swept across Europe leaving 500 years of total blackness has there been a man like Lee Marvin."

I was 8, when it came out in 1969. I vaguely recall going to see it at a drive-in movie theatre, in the good ol' family station wagon. We would park the wagon backwards and all three of us kids would crash out in the "way back".

[Peelee]

I was 8, when it came out in 1969. I vaguely recall going to see it at a drive-in movie theatre, in the good ol' family station wagon. We would park the wagon backwards and all three of us kids would crash out in the "way back".

That sounds pretty awesome.

[Mordar]

Rocky III and IV... I'm not sure that "fight porn" is the right description because there isn't actually a huge amount of fighting in them (although there are a lot of training montages). But they do belong solidly to the category of light entertainment rather than serious cinema. Balboa is a better drama film than III or IV, but the plot is even more preposterous and really it's a credit to the filmmakers that they persuade you to buy into it at all.

I wasn't thinking so much of the Rocky films...more the Cobras, Demolition Mans, Over the Tops and movies with "Rambo" in the original title.


Hard pass. The sequels are entertaining, sure, but they have no underlying message other than "Rocky is suddenly the underdog again somehow, see how he comes back to win it all!" The first movie completely transcends this. The first movie is art. Hell, that scene the night before the fight in the stadium has more emotional weight than the next four combined. It's the Rocky version of Quint's speech in Jaws, the scene that delivers the entire emotional premise and imparts exactly how the movie wants to make you feel all condensed into five minutes if some of the best filmmaking ever made. It's art.

I believe the sequels solidified the Training Montage as a permanent trope, and really brought soundtracks into play for action movies. Story has it that more than once Stallone wrote Rocky's death and was talked out of it. I suspect he felt the same way about the sequels as you did, but recognized the commercial value.

- M

[Peelee]

I believe the sequels solidified the Training Montage as a permanent trope, and really brought soundtracks into play for action movies. Story has it that more than once Stallone wrote Rocky's death and was talked out of it. I suspect he felt the same way about the sequels as you did, but recognized the commercial value.

- M

Look, I can wax poetic on the original all day long but offer me ten million dollars and I'll make Rocky 19 myself. I can't fault the guy at all for that.

[Trafalgar]

Can you provide me a source on this? Google has nothing.

I am deeply, intimately familiar with the work of Akira Kurosawa, and very familiar with post-war Japanese cinema and with the work of Mel Brooks. I've never heard of a film called Moeru Sadoru, nor one called anything close to 'Saddle', nor can I recall one whose plot resembles that of Blazing Saddles, neither among the works of Kurosawa, nor any of his contemporaries.

If this is a thing, and I didn't know it, I will be very excited.

Kurosawa used the pseudonym "M. Ogawa" for all of his comedies so it doesn't surprise me that Moeru Sadoru isn't listed on his filmography.

Moeru Sadoru and Blazing Saddles are two almost identical movies though you can see Kurosawa's use of background environmental effects like wind and fire in his film. For example, in the Blazing Saddles campfire scene, Mongo lifts his leg and you hear a crude noise. The Moeru Sadoru campfire scene is very similar except Mongo also causes a flatulent breeze that makes the tall grass in the background undulate and ripple. It's very artistic.

Moeru Sadoru, like many post war Japanese movies, also has a deeper political meaning lacking in Mel Brook's version. In Blazing Saddles Bart and Lili's relationship is a simple tryst. In Moeru Sadoru, this relationship is a subtle criticism of Tojo Hideki's decision to ally Japan with Nazi Germany.

But most of all, Moeru Sadoru cemented Toshiro Mifune's status as one of the greatest actors in my mind. The expression on his face when he says "Sumimasen, kore o muchiuchimasu!" right before he draws his katana is heartbreaking. "Sumimasen, kore o muchiuchimasu" is an expression that contains a certain irony and acerbity that is missing in a direct English translation so Mel Brook's settled on "Excuse me while I whip this out".

I think you can stream Moeru Sadoru on the Criterion Channel.

[dps]

Plus, Richard Burton's great in the role.

Richard Boone, not Richard Burton. But I do agree that Boone is great in the role. Years later, he also played the lead in another TV Western called Hec Ramsey. It flopped in the ratings, but IMO it deserved a bigger audience.

[tomandtish]

My favorite is probably Tombstone. Mainly for the performances, in particular Val Kilmer(easily the best performance I have ever seen from him, like way above and beyond his usual). The rest of the cast isn't exactly slouching either featuring: Kurt Russell, Sam Elliott, Bill Paxton, Powers Booth, Michael Biehn, Stephen Lang, Michael Rooker, Billy Zane, and many others including a Charlton Heston cameo. That's a similar reason to why I like Silverado but I think Tombstone is the better movie.



Quigley Down Under

My favorite western series is Trigun.

These are some of my favorites. I'll also have to add "The Long Riders", a 1980 film about the James/Younger gang. What also makes it good is that (with one exception), all the brothers are played by brothers.

David, Keith, and Robert Carradine played 3 of the 4 Younger brothers (Kevin Brophy was the 4th).

Stacey and James Keach played the James brothers.

Dennis and Randy Quaid played the Miller brothers.

It's also remarkably bloody for the time and one of the few R rated westerns because of the violence.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Christopher and Nicholas Guest also had roles, although I don't recall if they also played brothers.

[Peelee]

Christopher Guest

And my interest goes from zero to sixty remarkably quickly.

[quinron]

Richard Boone, not Richard Burton. But I do agree that Boone is great in the role. Years later, he also played the lead in another TV Western called Hec Ramsey. It flopped in the ratings, but IMO it deserved a bigger audience.

HA! Boy I feel silly - I admit I have trouble keeping my Richards straight.

Richard Burton in a Western would basically be the inversion of Alden Ehrenreich's character's plot in Hail, Caesar! Which could admittedly be pretty funny in itself.

[Yora]

Part of the appeal of Silverado is that it was the first western in a long time shot in the west, rather than in Sicily.
Not Sicily!

Spain! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_shot_in_Almer%C3%ADa) :smallbiggrin:

[Rogar Demonblud]

And my interest goes from zero to sixty remarkably quickly.

It is a movie you should probably watch once at least. For starters, it is not romanticizing the outlaw life.

[GentlemanVoodoo]

While though I have enjoyed the Clint Eastwood movies those staring John Wayne have been more my favorite. Of those movies that would be The Cowboys from 1972.

In modern times, three seem to stand out. Dances with Wolves though that is just more due to Kevin Costner's performance rather than the movie itself. There is also Tombstone (the one that had Val Kilmer as Doc Holiday) and Young Guns.

A Westernish movie but not set in the west that is good is Quigley Down Under. Alan Rickman killed it as the villain in that movie.

Since others did mention Blazing Saddles there is also the gem of The Villain. Movie was laughably bad but it is the only time we got to see Arnold Schwarzenegger as a cowboy. A sight one can never forget. :)

[Peelee]

Alan Rickman killed it as the villain in that movie.

You could have ended that sentence three words earlier and had a universally true statement.

[Rodin]

You could have ended that sentence three words earlier and had a universally true statement.

Heck, go to 6. Has Alan Rickman ever had a bad role?

[Peelee]

Heck, go to 6. Has Alan Rickman ever had a bad role?

Not a one. Plus he did my favorite angry/depressed quote. By Grabthar's Hammer... What a savings.

[Aedilred]

Heck, go to 6. Has Alan Rickman ever had a bad role?

Depends what you mean by a bad role. He was good in Love, Actually - one of the few good things in it, in my view - but I'd hesitate to call it a good role. Likewise, the Sheriff of Nottingham could have been a disaster of a part, but instead his performance was iconic.

Even his last picture, Alice in Wonderland (like Raul Julia, he deserved better): a desperately mediocre film, but he was decent enough in it.

[Peelee]

Depends what you mean by a bad role. He was good in Love, Actually - one of the few good things in it, in my view -

Really? You weren't a fan of Arthur Dent's story? Or Bill Nighy's? Heck, Bill Nighy's story is one of my favorite explorations of love in that movie because it's a non-romantic, purely platonic friendship love, and that he gives up the last big hurrah that he will ever get to spend time with his manager is my favorite part of the movie. A movie I greatly enjoy, at that.

[Scarlet Knight]

Jeremiah Johnson is another good overlooked movie.

[truemane]

Kurosawa used the pseudonym "M. Ogawa" for all of his comedies so it doesn't surprise me that Moeru Sadoru isn't listed on his filmography.

Moeru Sadoru and Blazing Saddles are two almost identical movies though you can see Kurosawa's use of background environmental effects like wind and fire in his film. For example, in the Blazing Saddles campfire scene, Mongo lifts his leg and you hear a crude noise. The Moeru Sadoru campfire scene is very similar except Mongo also causes a flatulent breeze that makes the tall grass in the background undulate and ripple. It's very artistic.

Moeru Sadoru, like many post war Japanese movies, also has a deeper political meaning lacking in Mel Brook's version. In Blazing Saddles Bart and Lili's relationship is a simple tryst. In Moeru Sadoru, this relationship is a subtle criticism of Tojo Hideki's decision to ally Japan with Nazi Germany.

But most of all, Moeru Sadoru cemented Toshiro Mifune's status as one of the greatest actors in my mind. The expression on his face when he says "Sumimasen, kore o muchiuchimasu!" right before he draws his katana is heartbreaking. "Sumimasen, kore o muchiuchimasu" is an expression that contains a certain irony and acerbity that is missing in a direct English translation so Mel Brook's settled on "Excuse me while I whip this out".

I think you can stream Moeru Sadoru on the Criterion Channel.
I deeply respect your hustle.

[DeadMech]

Do any of the above movies have an 80 foot mechanical spider in them?

I rest my case.

I mean... I only remember the plots to two of the westerns that I have seen and one of them had magnetic collars and buzzsaws and the other has a time travelling train...

So I'm gonna go with Back to the Future part 3.

Listen.

Blazing Saddles killed the genre before I was even born. I'm sure my parents showed me plenty of westerns when I was a kid but I can barely even picture Dances with Wolves.

Okay I remember a third western but you aren't gonna be happy. City Slickers.

[brionl]

Okay I remember a third western but you aren't gonna be happy. City Slickers.

Why wouldn't we be happy? It's a pretty damn good western, IMO.

[Jimorian]

Rocky II undoes everything Rocky does and flies in the face of the entire theme of the original. When Apollo offered Rocky the fight, Rocky said no. He knew he wasn't in Creed's league, he knew it was just a bone thrown to him, just a flash in the pan. But Creed's people kept at it until he thought he had a shot, trained for it, worked himself to the bone, only to find out yet again that it wasn't real. When he told the promoter that the shorts were wrong on the poster, all he got back was "it doesn't really matter, does it?" That was the message of the entire exhibition - it doesn't really matter. It's not a real fight, it's not a shot at the title, it's just a publicity stunt with Rocky as the parade float Apollo rides on. And Rocky decided that he wasn't going to play that game. He wasn't going to try to win, he wasn't going to go for the title, he wasn't going to dance to their tune. He was going to set his own goal. Go the distance, last all fifteen rounds with Creed. And he did, dammit. He doesn't even listen to the announcement declaring the winner, he's focused on Adrian, because he set out what he wanted to achieve. Victory was completely irrelevant. He lost, and more importantly, he didnt care that he lost.

Every other movie about a game or match or competition has the main character win, or lose but with a purpose or message or learning experience. Rocky is the only movie like that where who wins is entirely irrelevant because the main character, and by proxy the audience who care about him, straight up do not give a damn about the outcome. The winner being announced is relegated to background noise, a blink-and-you-miss-it small detail suitable for the answer on a trivia board game. And we also have the main characters' last words to each other which underscore Rocky's personal victory here - "Ain't gonna be no rematch." "Don't want one." Rocky did what he set out to do. He climbed his Everest, he did was nobody else ever had, he had nothing to prove to anyone but himself and he proved it to himself.

And then the sequel comes along and well, he's gotta win.

Hard pass. The sequels are entertaining, sure, but they have no underlying message other than "Rocky is suddenly the underdog again somehow, see how he comes back to win it all!" The first movie completely transcends this. The first movie is art. Hell, that scene the night before the fight in the stadium has more emotional weight than the next four combined. It's the Rocky version of Quint's speech in Jaws, the scene that delivers the entire emotional premise and imparts exactly how the movie wants to make you feel all condensed into five minutes if some of the best filmmaking ever made. It's art.

Rocky II is a popcorn movie. And not even the best one of the Rocky popcorn movies.

This is exactly how I feel about the original Bad News Bears. Both it and Rocky were movies that spawned an entire genre, but NONE of the movies that came after (particularly the sequels) actually ever adhered to the story and deeper (and *darker*) meaning of the original.

Back on Topic:

Once Upon a Time in the West (this goes back and forth as my favorite film of all time with Bladerunner)
Quigley Down Under
Open Range
Unforgiven
Silverado (recently rewatched this after years and years since last saw it)
The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly (and the other 2 in the trilogy)
The Frisco Kid
Support Your Local Sheriff

[Peelee]

Support Your Local Sheriff

Oh hey I've seen that one! I liked it. Also Maverick. Cheesy, but they know it and work with it.

[Rynjin]

Oh hey I've seen that one! I liked it. Also Maverick. Cheesy, but they know it and work with it.

Both are great movies. The sequel to Sheriff (Support Your Local Gunfighter, I believe) is solid too.

Westerns honestly work better to me as comedies than dramas; I was never the hugest fan of spaghetti westerns for that reason. The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly is sort of the "best movie I hate". Great movie, but its imitators ruined the genre for a long time.

[Imbalance]

I mean... I only remember the plots to two of the westerns that I have seen and one of them had magnetic collars and buzzsaws and the other has a time travelling train...

So I'm gonna go with Back to the Future part 3.

Listen.

Blazing Saddles killed the genre before I was even born. I'm sure my parents showed me plenty of westerns when I was a kid but I can barely even picture Dances with Wolves.

Okay I remember a third western but you aren't gonna be happy. City Slickers.

You should also watch Cowboys & Aliens to expand your horizons. The only way that could have been a better movie is if it had starred Pierce Brosnan.

[truemane]

I lived through the advent of home movie rentals (we actually owned the home movie machine that came out before the VCR - it played movies on vinyl!) and my dad loved movies. And his favourite genres were the two most popular Dad Genres ever: spy movies and westerns.

So I have vague, unformed memories of half-watching dozens of old spy movies and westerns, when I was young enough to be mostly bored by them because they weren't cartoons. The first time I actually watched Three Days of the Condor in my late teens it was like two straight hours of deja vu.

The first western that I remember watching, and enjoying, and being engaged with, all the way through, was Clint Eastwood's Pale Rider. And it was also the first time I ever figured out a movie's 'secret' (a thing that the movie is hinting at but not saying out loud).

Pale Rider isn't anyone's *best* Western (although I do think you could argue for its place in a Top 20), but I've always loved it because I can remember being so into it at an age when mostly I was into GI Joe and Transformers, and I vividly recall thinking (Spoiler alert for a 35 year old movie everyone but me has forgotten about) "Hang on, I think that dude's a ghost, and I think that rich dude was the one that killed him." And not even saying it out loud to my dad because I figured it was a stupid thing to think (if he was a ghost, the movie would just say so, right?).

It was my initiation into the idea that sometimes a movie will kind of hint at a thing without ever saying it loud, or stating it for sure one way or the other. I've been into, and alert for, intentional narrative ambiguity ever since. And that simple idea has significantly enriched my movie watching ever since.

Anyway, tl;dr Pale Rider has always been on the top of my Best Western list, right next to the Dollars Trilogy, Once Upon a Time in the West, the Searchers, The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada, El Topo, the Wild Bunch, The Shooting, Unforgiven, and whatever other greats I'm forgetting.

EDIT:

You should also watch Cowboys & Aliens to expand your horizons. The only way that could have been a better movie is if it had starred Pierce Brosnan.
This is a 100% true statement.

[wipaxati]

Once Upon a Time in the West :cool:

[dps]

Support Your Local Sheriff

The best comedy Western IMO. At least of the ones I've seen.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Four Eyes and Six Guns isn't bad on that front. If you like Judge Reinhold.

[McStabbington]

Unforgiven.

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance probably comes second.

[Dire_Flumph]

Not a movie, but I'd at least like to give an honorable mention to Red Dead Redemption 2. Just finished a 2nd playthough and got all emotional at the ending again.