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DragonLordAcar
2021-02-13, 09:39 AM
So my DM is allowing me to play a dragon in human form under the condition that it is like a curse so that I can't just go full dragon on any poor dungeon boss. You know... because mother ****ing dragon. The idea is that this is a ritual performed to either punish members of the dragon race to a mortal's body heavily limiting their powers or as a way for one to more easily live among mortal races. This is what I currently have after looking around a bit at both homebrew and official classes.

I know it is powerful and for my group, I am not worried about ability scores being too high as we roll 4d6 reroll 1s as our starting stats. What I am worried about is that I will show up the rest of my party with my abilities and steal the spotlight. In principle, this is supposed to represent the combination of a dragon's powerful physique and their innate magic (based on Pathfinder Magus class that someone made a 5e conversion for but fewer spells because that class is too OP for 5e but still my favorite class).

Humanoid Cursed Dragon: this class is only available to dragons and sentient, non-huminoid half-dragons
-qualifies for dragon, half-dragon, dragonborn, or any other dragon race feats
-count as both dragon and humanoid (race chosen as the humanoid form) for item effects such as attunement and bane weapons
-HD: d8
-Saves: as dragon
-Skills: choose 2 from Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival
-Armor Proficiencies: shields
-Weapon Proficiencies: simple and martial weapons
-Tool Proficiencies: none
-Starting Equipment: or 4d4*10gp
-(a) a dagger, arcane focus, and component pouch or (b) a dagger, longbow, and 20 arrows
-(a) a martial weapon and a shield or (b) two martial weapons
-(a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) two handaxes
-(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
Lv1:
-Draconic Resilience: When not wearing armor your AC is 13+Dex. At Lv10, this becomes 13+Dex+Cha. You can retain this benefit when wielding a shield. You also gain 1 additional Hp per level.
-Draconic Restriction: any immunity to damage you have becomes resistance and any resistance you had is removed. Blindsight is also reduced by half. These return to normal values at 15th level.
-Draconic Attacks I: Attacks with natural weapons and weapons attuned with deal an additional 1d2 of your dragon energy type and 1d2 force damage. Attuning to a weapon takes 1 hour of uninterrupted concentration. You can attune to up to half your Int modifier (minimum 1) of manufactured weapons at a time.
-Spells: Spell progression as a Warlock and spell slots are regained on a short rest. You use the Sorcerer spell list. You are unable to learn spells that conflict with your dragon energy type (for example, red dragons can not learn cold spells and shadow dragons can not learn radiant spells). You also learn the Drake Strike cantrip.
-School: evocation -Casting Time: 1 action
-Range: 10ft -Components: V, S -Duration: instantaneous
-You are capable of conjuring the power of your dragon heritage into your hands, lashing out to send a wave of energy to hit an opponent in range. Make
a melee spell attack. On a hit, they take 2d6 damage, the damage type corresponding to your elemental affinity. At 5th level, the damage increases to
3d6. At 11th level, it increases once more to 4d6, and at 17th level, it reaches 5d6.
Lv2:
-Font of Magic: You gain Sorcery Points as a Sorcerer. These can only be used on Metamagic and healing. If points are spent to heal on a short rest, you add your Cha and Con to a single HD rolled per point spent this way. You can spend as many points on healing up to half your level (minimum 1) each day.
-Limited Metamagic I: You learn 2 Metamagics. You can only use one Metamagic per Spell. If you have no Sorcery points after a short rest, you can choose to gain 1 point but take a level of exhaustion. If you already have 2 or more levels of exhaustion, you can not gain any Sorcery Points.
Lv3:
-Spellsword: You can take a -2 to all attack rolls and/or spell DC for the round to cast a spell with a casting time of a standard action using your bonus action. You can also quicken the spell for 1 Sorcery point if it has a casting time greater than a standard action but it suffers an additional -2 to attack roll or
-2 to spell DC. The spell must be cast with an open hand or with a focus costing at least (100gp*spell Lv)^2 with cantrips counting as 0.5 levels for this calculation (if this focus is a held item such as a weapon or shield, this cost is in addition to any cost of the item including magical enhancements). If the focus is added to the item after creation, double this cost. This counts as an arcane focus. Conversely, you can instead take a -2 to only the bonus action's attack roll to make an additional weapon attack.
-Draconic Talent: You can learn new spells that do not conflict with your energy type like a wizard but this takes 4 times the amount of time and materials to commit to memory. If it can be cast as a ritual, you can cast it as one and takes half the time and materials.
Lv4:
-Ability Score Improvement I
Lv5:
-Spellstrike: You can prepare to cast a spell on a bonus action and release it with a weapon attack. If the attack scores a critical hit, the spell does as well. If the spell does not have an attack roll, it instead imposes disadvantage to the save on a critical. If the spell is AOE, you can still be targeted by it including critical hits. You always fail the save of any damaging AOE spells cast this way with this damage ignoring Evasion and like abilities. Lines can point away from you or sweep left or right of you and cones always point away from you.
-Extra Attack I
Lv6:
-Elemental Affinity: You add your Cha to spells that deal damage of your dragon energy type or force damage. You also gain resistance to force damage.
-Combat Style: You gain a Fighter combat style.
Lv7:
-Improved Spellsword: You no longer suffer the -2 to attack rolls and saves imposed by the Spellsword feature.
Lv8:
-Ability Score Improvement II:
Lv9:
-Spell Learning I: You learn one spell from each spell list other than Sorcerer but still suffer the limitations that your sorcerer spells do
Lv10:
-Extra Attack II
-Draconic Attacks II: Weapon attacks now deal an additional 1d4 of your dragon energy type and 1d4 force damage.
-Limited Metamagic II: You learn 1 additional Metamagic. You can use 2 Metamagics on a single spell by paying 2 additional Sorcery Points. If you have no Sorcery points after a short rest, you can choose to gain 2 points but take a level of exhaustion. If you already have 2 or more levels of exhaustion, you do not gain any Sorcery Points.
Lv11:
-Draconic Blast: You can sacrifice one of your attacks to launch a blast of energy in a 30ft line or 15ft cone (chosen at the time of use). This damage is 1d8 or your dragon energy type and 1d8 force damage. This increases by 1d8 of your dragon energy type at 15th level and 1d8 force damage at 19th level. The save DC is 8+half your level+Con and the save used is based on your dragon origins (for example, a white dragon's save could be a Con save while a brass dragon's is a Dex save).
Lv12:
-Ability Score Improvement III:
Lv13:
-Returning Form I: You can spend 2 sorcery points to grow draconic wings for 30 minutes. You also gain a draconic tail during this time but can not be used to attack. This can be canceled at any time with any time remaining being waisted. This fly speed is equal to twice their base speed.
-Elemental Mastery: You can spend 1 sorcery point to ignore resistance to your dragon energy type and force and treat immunity to these as resistance for 1 minute.
Lv14:
-Ability Score Improvement IV:
Lv15:
-Dragon Prestige: Those with half the HD you possess within 30ft of you must make a Wis save upon seeing you. On a failure, they are either frightened for 1 minute if hostile to you or you gain a +2 to Persuasion checks so long as they do not conflict with their moral beliefs for 10minutes. A success makes the creature immune for 24 hours.
Lv16:
-Ability Score Improvement V:
Lv17:
-Limited Metamagic III: You learn 1 additional Metamagic. You can use 3 Metamagics on a single spell by paying 4 additional Sorcery Points. If you have no
Sorcery points after a short rest, you can choose to gain 2 points but take a level of exhaustion. If you already have 2 or more levels of exhaustion, you do not gain any Sorcery Points.
-Returning Form II: Wings can now be manifested for 30 minutes per point spent. You also gain a tail attack dealing 1d4 bludgeoning damage during this time. You can also spend a Sorcery Point to grow claws on your hands each dealing 1d6 slashing or bludgeoning damage for 30 minutes. This can be canceled at any time ending with any time remaining being waisted.
Lv18:
-Spell Learning II: You learn one additional spell from each spell list other than Sorcerer but still suffer the limitations that your sorcerer spells do
Lv19:
-Ability Score Improvement VII:
Lv20:
-Draconic Attacks III: Weapon attacks now deal an additional 1d6 of your dragon energy type and 1d6 force damage.
-Dragon Form: 1/day you can take the form of an adult dragon of your type for 10 minutes as per Polymorph. If you are older than an adult dragon, you take the form of a dragon of your age. When the time expires, the form can be extended 1 minute by spending a Sorcery Point. This can be done until you run out of Sorcery Points. You can still cast your spells as per normal in this form. You also gain 4 Sorcery Points.

anthon
2021-02-13, 11:18 AM
So my DM is allowing me to play a dragon in human form under the condition that it is like a curse so that I can't just go full dragon on any poor dungeon boss. You know... because mother ****ing dragon. The idea is that this is a ritual performed to either punish members of the dragon race to a mortal's body heavily limiting their powers or as a way for one to more easily live among mortal races. This is what I currently have after looking around a bit at both homebrew and official classes.

I know it is powerful and for my group, I am not worried about ability scores being too high as we roll 4d6 reroll 1s as our starting stats. What I am worried about is that I will show up the rest of my party with my abilities and steal the spotlight. In principle, this is supposed to represent the combination of a dragon's powerful physique and their innate magic (based on Pathfinder Magus class that someone made a 5e conversion for but fewer spells because that class is too OP for 5e but still my favorite class).

Humanoid Cursed Dragon: this class is only available to dragons and sentient, non-huminoid half-dragons
-qualifies for dragon, half-dragon, dragonborn, or any other dragon race feats
-count as both dragon and humanoid (race chosen as the humanoid form) for item effects such as attunement and bane weapons
-HD: d8
-Saves: as dragon
-Skills: choose 2 from Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival
-Armor Proficiencies: shields
-Weapon Proficiencies: simple and martial weapons
-Tool Proficiencies: none
-Starting Equipment: or 4d4*10gp
-(a) a dagger, arcane focus, and component pouch or (b) a dagger, longbow, and 20 arrows
-(a) a martial weapon and a shield or (b) two martial weapons
-(a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) two handaxes
-(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
Lv1:
-Draconic Resilience: When not wearing armor your AC is 13+Dex. At Lv10, this becomes 13+Dex+Cha. You can retain this benefit when wielding a shield. You also gain 1 additional Hp per level.
-Draconic Restriction: any immunity to damage you have becomes resistance and any resistance you had is removed. Blindsight is also reduced by half. These return to normal values at 15th level.
-Draconic Attacks I: Attacks with natural weapons and weapons attuned with deal an additional 1d2 of your dragon energy type and 1d2 force damage. Attuning to a weapon takes 1 hour of uninterrupted concentration. You can attune to up to half your Int modifier (minimum 1) of manufactured weapons at a time.
-Spells: Spell progression as a Warlock and spell slots are regained on a short rest. You use the Sorcerer spell list. You are unable to learn spells that conflict with your dragon energy type (for example, red dragons can not learn cold spells and shadow dragons can not learn radiant spells). You also learn the Drake Strike cantrip.
-School: evocation -Casting Time: 1 action
-Range: 10ft -Components: V, S -Duration: instantaneous
-You are capable of conjuring the power of your dragon heritage into your hands, lashing out to send a wave of energy to hit an opponent in range. Make
a melee spell attack. On a hit, they take 2d6 damage, the damage type corresponding to your elemental affinity. At 5th level, the damage increases to
3d6. At 11th level, it increases once more to 4d6, and at 17th level, it reaches 5d6.
Lv2:
-Font of Magic: You gain Sorcery Points as a Sorcerer. These can only be used on Metamagic and healing. If points are spent to heal on a short rest, you add your Cha and Con to a single HD rolled per point spent this way. You can spend as many points on healing up to half your level (minimum 1) each day.
-Limited Metamagic I: You learn 2 Metamagics. You can only use one Metamagic per Spell. If you have no Sorcery points after a short rest, you can choose to gain 1 point but take a level of exhaustion. If you already have 2 or more levels of exhaustion, you can not gain any Sorcery Points.
Lv3:
-Spellsword: You can take a -2 to all attack rolls and/or spell DC for the round to cast a spell with a casting time of a standard action using your bonus action. You can also quicken the spell for 1 Sorcery point if it has a casting time greater than a standard action but it suffers an additional -2 to attack roll or
-2 to spell DC. The spell must be cast with an open hand or with a focus costing at least (100gp*spell Lv)^2 with cantrips counting as 0.5 levels for this calculation (if this focus is a held item such as a weapon or shield, this cost is in addition to any cost of the item including magical enhancements). If the focus is added to the item after creation, double this cost. This counts as an arcane focus. Conversely, you can instead take a -2 to only the bonus action's attack roll to make an additional weapon attack.
-Draconic Talent: You can learn new spells that do not conflict with your energy type like a wizard but this takes 4 times the amount of time and materials to commit to memory. If it can be cast as a ritual, you can cast it as one and takes half the time and materials.
Lv4:
-Ability Score Improvement I
Lv5:
-Spellstrike: You can prepare to cast a spell on a bonus action and release it with a weapon attack. If the attack scores a critical hit, the spell does as well. If the spell does not have an attack roll, it instead imposes disadvantage to the save on a critical. If the spell is AOE, you can still be targeted by it including critical hits. You always fail the save of any damaging AOE spells cast this way with this damage ignoring Evasion and like abilities. Lines can point away from you or sweep left or right of you and cones always point away from you.
-Extra Attack I
Lv6:
-Elemental Affinity: You add your Cha to spells that deal damage of your dragon energy type or force damage. You also gain resistance to force damage.
-Combat Style: You gain a Fighter combat style.
Lv7:
-Improved Spellsword: You no longer suffer the -2 to attack rolls and saves imposed by the Spellsword feature.
Lv8:
-Ability Score Improvement II:
Lv9:
-Spell Learning I: You learn one spell from each spell list other than Sorcerer but still suffer the limitations that your sorcerer spells do
Lv10:
-Extra Attack II
-Draconic Attacks II: Weapon attacks now deal an additional 1d4 of your dragon energy type and 1d4 force damage.
-Limited Metamagic II: You learn 1 additional Metamagic. You can use 2 Metamagics on a single spell by paying 2 additional Sorcery Points. If you have no Sorcery points after a short rest, you can choose to gain 2 points but take a level of exhaustion. If you already have 2 or more levels of exhaustion, you do not gain any Sorcery Points.
Lv11:
-Draconic Blast: You can sacrifice one of your attacks to launch a blast of energy in a 30ft line or 15ft cone (chosen at the time of use). This damage is 1d8 or your dragon energy type and 1d8 force damage. This increases by 1d8 of your dragon energy type at 15th level and 1d8 force damage at 19th level. The save DC is 8+half your level+Con and the save used is based on your dragon origins (for example, a white dragon's save could be a Con save while a brass dragon's is a Dex save).
Lv12:
-Ability Score Improvement III:
Lv13:
-Returning Form I: You can spend 2 sorcery points to grow draconic wings for 30 minutes. You also gain a draconic tail during this time but can not be used to attack. This can be canceled at any time with any time remaining being waisted. This fly speed is equal to twice their base speed.
-Elemental Mastery: You can spend 1 sorcery point to ignore resistance to your dragon energy type and force and treat immunity to these as resistance for 1 minute.
Lv14:
-Ability Score Improvement IV:
Lv15:
-Dragon Prestige: Those with half the HD you possess within 30ft of you must make a Wis save upon seeing you. On a failure, they are either frightened for 1 minute if hostile to you or you gain a +2 to Persuasion checks so long as they do not conflict with their moral beliefs for 10minutes. A success makes the creature immune for 24 hours.
Lv16:
-Ability Score Improvement V:
Lv17:
-Limited Metamagic III: You learn 1 additional Metamagic. You can use 3 Metamagics on a single spell by paying 4 additional Sorcery Points. If you have no
Sorcery points after a short rest, you can choose to gain 2 points but take a level of exhaustion. If you already have 2 or more levels of exhaustion, you do not gain any Sorcery Points.
-Returning Form II: Wings can now be manifested for 30 minutes per point spent. You also gain a tail attack dealing 1d4 bludgeoning damage during this time. You can also spend a Sorcery Point to grow claws on your hands each dealing 1d6 slashing or bludgeoning damage for 30 minutes. This can be canceled at any time ending with any time remaining being waisted.
Lv18:
-Spell Learning II: You learn one additional spell from each spell list other than Sorcerer but still suffer the limitations that your sorcerer spells do
Lv19:
-Ability Score Improvement VII:
Lv20:
-Draconic Attacks III: Weapon attacks now deal an additional 1d6 of your dragon energy type and 1d6 force damage.
-Dragon Form: 1/day you can take the form of an adult dragon of your type for 10 minutes as per Polymorph. If you are older than an adult dragon, you take the form of a dragon of your age. When the time expires, the form can be extended 1 minute by spending a Sorcery Point. This can be done until you run out of Sorcery Points. You can still cast your spells as per normal in this form. You also gain 4 Sorcery Points.


What you do is up to your DM.

Rifts had Racial Character Classes RCCs in addition to Occupational Character Classes OCCs. Other than some elf stuff, for the most part, D&D hasn't had racial character classes for a long time. In AD&D this was super easy - Council of Wyrms. There were Undead RCCs in Ravenloft too where the abilities were purchased using proficiency slots.

In older editions, some dragons could polymorph into humanoids. In newer editions, you need a minimum age category that is very high Challenge Rating before the dragon's innates include changing into humanoid form.

Objectively, what I see:

I see a class that is more powerful than a dragon exploiting the dragon archetype as an excuse for more power, then delaying actual dragon form toward the end as a cherry on top. There's an unusual preoccupation with +Force Damage, which appears to be interpreted as a strong desire for power expressed mechanically. You even tossed in the breath weapon and fear radius.

Most egregious perhaps against the gods of balance (I wonder what Astinus of Palanthus would say?) is a preoccupation with magic super powers. If you peruse the 5e monster manual, the dragons have a tiny sliver of the former mystical might they had in previous editions. Magical superpowers are few and far between for all monster races in 5e, dragons are no exception.

" you can cast it as one and takes half the time and materials."
"You can learn new spells that do not conflict with your energy type like a wizard"

uhmn.

OK, so we have yet another "im a ___ formerly known as the dragon ___ cursed by ___ and now im a PC with bonuses" in my own group, so this isn't particularly a new road for me.

My thoughts: Council of Wyrms let you play a slightly nerfed dragon. Those dragons were better than this class, and had levels, but this class has fewer limitations. For example, you just play a silver or gold or deep dragon and then polymorph into a human, elf, or dark elf, and grab your sword, retaining that crazy 25 (that's 30 in 5e) strength (+7 hit +14 damage) and magic resistance. Rifts had the same thing, where you had basically 4-40,000 MDC crazy super strength, special abilities etc.

I had a villain that used an old spell to steal the powers of a dragon. Such a spell is almost identical to one in print in the Wizard Spell Compendium.

in 5e, a 20th level wizard with spell boons:
Spell Recall: cast spell you know without a slot
High Magic: +1 9th level slot

now pick a dragon that's CR 20 and Cast Shape Shift 3/day.

Before then,
When you hit 17th level, you can turn into a wide variety of Adult Dragons.


Alternatively, you can just get your DM to approve researching Permanency and Spell Immunity.

You then cast Spell Immunity: Dispel Magic

And Permanency: Duration changes from 10 minutes per level to permanent.

Next you cast True Polymorph and maintain concentration for 1 hour setting the polymorph to permanent, which grants the abilities of the CR 17-20 dragon. Some of those dragons have the ability to polymorph into humanoids, who can then wear clothes, equipment, armor, etc. But you are a dragon as your permanent default, and only a 9th level Disjunction spell can reverse it.

Wish could probably expedite this whole process.

Like, if your goal is to play a dragon who turns into a person, but then turns back into a dragon, there's lots of legal and DM flavored RAI ways to do it.

However, the class as you have it constructed is just an OP dragon in human skin. There's no curse at all in this class. This is just a humanoid fighter/mage on steroids. You want cursed?

we have a cursed dragon in kobold form in our game, and all their dragon "powers" come from being a paladin of bahamut. Their primary special ability is cowering in a corner. That's cursed.

What you have written is 3 or 4 epic boons stacked on top of a modified Draconic Sorcerer.

Astinus weeps.

JNAProductions
2021-02-13, 11:36 AM
This belongs in the Homebrew forum.

But, assuming this is 5E...

D8 Hit Dice, okay.
Saves: As Dragon makes no sense. Dragons have varying saves, I believe, and don't most of them have three saves? That's too many.
Skills: Two skills, okay.
Armor and Weapons: Just shields? But all weapons.
Equipment: Whatever.

Draconic Resilience
So you get better Unarmored Defense than a Monk, equal to a Barbarian with 16 Con, and it improves to be 13+two stats at level 10? That's nuts.

Draconic Restriction
That... That doesn't even make sense. You're referencing something you didn't define.

Draconic Attacks
So you've got the AC of a Monk or Barbarian with less stat investment, and your weapons deal more damage than either of them too.

Spellcasting
You don't specify what casting stat to use.

Okay, I'm going to stop here-especially since I just noticed you get Extra Attack II a level EARLIER than a Fighter.

This is blatantly OP, not especially thematic, and half-baked. The general idea (draconic class) is fine. The implementation is anything but.

DragonLordAcar
2021-02-13, 12:57 PM
Well... I was not expecting this to be ripped apart so much. But I posted this because it was OP and needed to cut it down. The original Idea was a dragon that can't return to its true form but retains its mind and rerolls for physical ability scores.

Thank you for pointing out the unarmored AC thing. I am still used to playing Pathfinder so I did not realize just how broken those numbers were. I should probably change it to 10+Dex with adding Cha later.

As for the dragons no longer have spells. I am going off that dragons are highly magical beings making spellcasting similar to a Sorcerer/Warlock hybrid with added limitations in spell element options and reduced sorcery point uses.

I will change extra attacks to be later and probably remove Extra Attack II.

For the force damage, should I add the damage dice together and say half can't be resisted or just add the damage dice together into a single element?

I also realize now that the Spell Learning ability is too powerful as is and will limit it to 2 spells each time.

For race confusion, this is assuming that your base race is whatever dragon (true or not but still must be sentient) or non-humanoid half-dragon (still needs to be sentient). You keep most of your racial abilities (excluding natural attacks and other limitations). You also keep your mental ability scores (personally I reduced them by -2 or -3 to the nearest even number then rolled a d6 but my group also rolls 4d6 for ability scores) and I also added a +1 to the base dragon's highest two ability scores (Str and Con).

So what else needs to be changed because I still want to play this kind of sorcery point spellsword character. I know it will not be a perfect class but I at least want to get this playable.

Sorry for posting in the wrong section. This was my first post and did not see the Homebrew Design section. I will move this over there.