PDA

View Full Version : Taking over as DM. Let's fix this mess...



Drache64
2021-02-13, 08:26 PM
After a series of bad sessions my DM has decided he cannot DM for us anymore. And he gave me permission to continue the campaign as DM his stead. (Enter Thanos GIF "fine I'll do it myself".

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?624216-Just-processing-my-current-campaign-thoughts-welcome

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?616908-Cannot-get-DM-to-respond-to-requests-and-I-do-not-want-to-annoy-him

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612583-How-the-Kobold-with-wish-meme-ends

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612506-Player-politics-Navigating-the-social-contract

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?612378-Stuck-playing-D-amp-D-with-a-friend-who-is-a-terrible-DM

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?605190-Annoying-everyone-with-my-incessant-questions

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?601830-quot-can-you-roleplay-that-we-get-along-quot-Fair-question

Maybe that's for the best...

But I think I can save the campaign. Let's cover some of the players and the story and how I think I can turn this ship around:

The first problem that's solved:
The old DM never cared about back stories, he was telling a story and it didn't matter what character you brought because their story wasn't as important as the story he was telling. I plan to work with all my players and craft a tale that ties their back stories right into the plot.

Players:
The chaos crew:
Member 1: A pirate captain cleric who hates her deity but was forced into a contract.
-Fun idea! But done wrong creates a character who cares very little for the party and their mission because she's an unwilling participant.

Member 2: the pirate captain's first mate. She's a pirate druid who the DM let see some over powered dinosaurs and turns into them which can break encounters. She only cares about her captain and her captain cares about nothing.
-together these two have a habit of going off in their own direction or triggering traps when the party is thoughtfully discussing an approach. The problem is this was the DMs wife and any bad consequence she would suffer were waived away with a single dirty look.
+ Complication. The DM put a cursed glove in the middle of a dungeon. She charged forward and put it on. The DM changed it to a blessed item and a sentient helpful glove for her. This is potentially game/plot breaking and I'll have to deal with this.

The problem character:
Peter Pan. My wife made an Archfey Warlock who likes to lure children into dangerous adventures. This doesn't sit well with the party. I'll have to come up with a solution that allows her to gather orphans and shelter them without brining them into danger.

The Problem Player:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?601830-quot-can-you-roleplay-that-we-get-along-quot-Fair-question

The bard can't seem to stand me as a person. She might not continue with us if I become the DM. But I will not shoo her away, though I might just have to minimize working her into the campaign. But who knows, things could get better.

Lastly the good player:
The Paladin is a good party member, an Aaracokra (sp?) Oath of vengeance paladin. She's looking for her deity Remnus.

The story:
The DM established a rather plain story, the Dark 6 are attempting to take over the material plain. The only weapon that can stop them has been shattered and the party must travel to different locations to collect the pieces of the Deus Ex Machina to beat the 6 evil gods.

My problem with this story is there is no twist or intrigue. Players know what they need to do and they simply need to do it, facing obvious opposition along the way. I prefer plot twists, intrigue, and a more dynamic story.

I like the idea that the plot isn't the issue, it's the background. The dark six amassing isn't the issue it's the opportunity for the real antagonist. The world at Large knows the dark six are doing this and is working together, it's obvious some band of adventurers will stop them and it will most likely be ours, but what terrible organization or thing is going to take advantage while everyone else is paying attention to something worse than them?

The DM introduced something random that he really had no plans for (I know this because we've talked). The Silver Flame is actually a cult of mind Flayers preying upon hopefuls with no godly protection. My Bladesinger left the party to serve them, not knowing they were mind Flayers. (This was how we had my Bladesinger exit the party when the DM was having a hard time balancing encounters with my Bladesinger).

But what are the Mind Flayers planning? What is their goal? My hopes were that the DM would run my old character as a mind controlled soldier against them. Is it a bad idea to turn my old bladesinger against them?

What is your take, what ideas do you have?

gijoemike
2021-02-13, 09:21 PM
Some of the comments you have made in other posts do not jive in anyway with what you are stating in this post.

Several party members are clearly adversarial not just to other characters but to the person playing them. If the bard doesn't like you as person this has no way of working.

Next time the cleric and druid run off without their crew have something terrible happen to the ship.

Have the glove change appearance which triggers a memory for the cleric. The blessed item enacts a harsh payment. People thought it was a curse but it is really just payment for use of the magic. Now the cleric and druid can work to destroy the item.

When the item is destroyed turn the cleric into a favored soul/warlock. Full retrain. Now instead of having to pay lip service they just have the power and are one step closer to freedom.

Have every single NPC hate the warlock. That is some seriously evil stuff happening. Accuse the lock of kidnapping, witchcraft, eating children. She would need to show all the townsfolk shopkeepers that the kids are safe. A town could offer to take the kids in and work longterm with the lock. This would move the partying to establishing a base of operations near that town.

As GM your job is to make sure everyone has fun. But you must avoid "Thor and the other superheroes" imbalance/spotlight stealing.

Is the GM coming in with a PC now? Why is his wife staying in the group if he drops out?
The only way to fix the druid is to take several shiny OP toys away.
If the player of the bard doesn't like you that will not workout like I stated earlier.


If you lose the bard and druid the game is over.

Roninblack
2021-02-13, 09:24 PM
It sounds like a hot bed with a lot of complex issues, so take my 2cp for what they're worth.

The bland Dark 6 quest, Someone else solved and did it. There are other heroes out there, and there's always someone stronger than you. It feels a little forced, but is fairly realistic honestly, depending on how strong the current group is and how far along you are. (I didn't read your 5 reference threads TBF)

The glove's gotta go, you acknowledge that. So destroy it, steal it, sunder it. what have you, I like the idea of it being stolen and damaged before the party manages to retrieve it, so that it is still a nice item but no longer game breaking.

your wife. this is a sensitive issue for the reasons you mentioned about the last DM's wife. I don't know if the dynamic would work better if you worked with her one on one to find a solution to the child napper, or if it should be handled at the table and an arrangement worked out.

Is the old DM joining the group as a player?
Is the old DM's wife going to stay with the group if he leaves?

The personality conflict with the bard is a hard one to solve, but if you are ok with them playing at your table, then be ok, don't count out the character just in case, otherwise it might feel like you are pushing them away. If they choose to walk, trust yourself to find a good solution at the time to deal with it. A dead bard might motivate the party, or perhaps they become another mind flayer soldier.

and the last, mind flayer soldier, it sounds cool, it could be fun, it would be a great way to change the storyline the way you want, but because this is a hotbed table, just make sure it isn't goiing to feel to them that you are super charging your old PC to use against them, basically the worst possible DMPC. This gets mitigated the longer that time passes between the character retiring and you taking over.

Anonymouswizard
2021-02-14, 03:17 AM
So my thoughts, for what they are.

There's something wrong with the Dark Six quest. Bring in the canon Eberron Ambiguity, the stories of their rise are being spread by Outsiders to serve their own aims. The weapon never existed in the first place. One of the pieces of the weapon is destroyed and now a new one must be made, which will require a House Cannith smith and forging in the Silver Flame. The entire quest is a ploy by a Rakasha Raja to get you to free then from their prison. A dragon intentionally misread the prophecy and the foretellings are of the Dark Six, Eberron's first heavy metal band. Throw some complexity into the quest.

Then bring another faction into the game with a more interesting plot. The Silver Flame being a Mind Flayer scheme actually annoys me here, the official version of the church is great for throwing some grey morality into a situation. But have the plot be relatively small scale, the group is making a play for territory or to become the power behind the throne of one of the kingdoms. Or have the head of one of the Houses die, and civil war follows as different factions support different heirs. But you know you have to do something here, and religious mind flayers work, even if they feel a bit Blood of Volly.

As for the characters, well, for the pirates the main issues are to get the captain invested somehow (an opportunity to get out of their contract?), deal with the glove, and treat everybody fairly and let those who want to walk away do so. Even a Peter Pan Warlock could work fine, sitting it's probably better for them to be in the stage where they're still trying to find their Neverland (and as has been said, they'd likely come off as evil to many, even if they limit themselves to orient and the disowned).

Talwar
2021-02-15, 12:25 PM
What elements of the campaign make you want to save it? Why not scrap it and start fresh, without these various problematic characters, gear, and so forth?

Mastikator
2021-02-15, 01:01 PM
Since you are the new DM you have an opportunity to have a new session zero. This time you can bring up things like player etiquette about pvp, backstories and fleshing our PC motivations. It would also be a great time to bring the nerf hammer down, just say "these things are very overpowered and I can't possibly balance an encounter when you have them". You should start with "congratulations, you win at D&D, your stuff is too powerful for me. How will you help me fix this?", otherwise people tend to cry when you take away their toys.
In your session zero you could also ask the players to make backup characters. This time you'll curate the characters the players will make, make non-problem characters.

King of Nowhere
2021-02-15, 02:28 PM
given the premises, though, one has to ask the question: why?


why take over the previous campaign instead of starting a new one?

the way you describe it, there are absolutely no positive factors about it. no redeeming traits, nothing worth salvaging. the plot, the world, the pcs, the pcs interactions, all of them are bad. nothing is good.
wouldn't it be just better to wipe the mess and start clean?

False God
2021-02-16, 09:52 AM
If you have to retool the story, the setting, and even the characters to get the game back in shape, I have to echo the other comments:

Why not just start fresh?

dps
2021-02-16, 07:38 PM
Even a Peter Pan Warlock could work fine, sitting it's probably better for them to be in the stage where they're still trying to find their Neverland (and as has been said, they'd likely come off as evil to many, even if they limit themselves to orient and the disowned).

Did you mean "orphans and the disowned"? 'Cause I don't think a lot of people would be ok with childnapping just because the children involved were Oriental.

Duff
2021-02-18, 06:34 PM
This is a pretty untidy combination of players and characters.
A simple plot might be best - leave it up to the personalities to give all the twistyness this campaign can cope with.

I say that because intrigue, twists and backstory usually add strain to the bonds within the party and what you've described is not a collection of personalities which seem likely to survive that.

Lay out a nice straight road and try to make sure none of these cats wander too far from the herd. If they start showing some inclination to stay on the road, that's when you make the road less clear.
Note - you should still try to make the road interesting. Include some fun NPCs to interact with etc

Otherwise, to paraphrase a theme oft mentioned above - What are you trying to save here? What are the good bits that you're keeping?

quinron
2021-02-18, 08:02 PM
This is a pretty untidy combination of players and characters.
A simple plot might be best - leave it up to the personalities to give all the twistyness this campaign can cope with.

I say that because intrigue, twists and backstory usually add strain to the bonds within the party and what you've described is not a collection of personalities which seem likely to survive that.

Lay out a nice straight road and try to make sure none of these cats wander too far from the herd. If they start showing some inclination to stay on the road, that's when you make the road less clear.
Note - you should still try to make the road interesting. Include some fun NPCs to interact with etc

Otherwise, to paraphrase a theme oft mentioned above - What are you trying to save here? What are the good bits that you're keeping?

Seconded. The Dark Six plot isn't bad; it's just not what you want. But given your previous threads, it sounds like literally every other person at the table hates intrigue and mystery and would love to have a "kick in the door and collect the Dragon Balls" plot.

I'm not going to say these people aren't your friends (except the bard's player) like some have, but I am going to say you shouldn't be playing with this group. It seems like most of the frustrations that led your DM to want to quit came from you specifically.

That's not to say you're playing wrong or being a bad player; far from it, I think your actual attempts to solver your issues have been pretty even-handed. But what you want out of the game clearly hasn't meshed with what the others want, and all your frustration has come from that. With you as GM, instead of one person not getting what they want, it's going to be all but one person not getting what they want - the amount of frustration you've felt which led you to make 5 separate complaint threads is going to be felt by every other person in the game. Even if you were to scrap this game and start a new one, you're going to be making a game that you like - which, you've exhaustively documented, means nobody else will like it.

TL;DR: You are at the wrong table. If this is a group of friends you like to hang out with together, find something else to do. If not, look for another table. But don't run this group.