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Doctor Despair
2021-02-15, 01:48 AM
If you were recently in a campaign with Doggrel, Orion, Arianna, Tironsilas, Lam, or Crow, read no further; consider that your warning.




Setting:

https://i.postimg.cc/C5NkZHK7/Map-Large.png

https://i.postimg.cc/ZKb6GgfM/Dungeon-Ground.png


In the midst of a vast swamp, there is a small, but well-fortified thorp. The walls are thick, and need be to repel the wandering dead that rise from the murky depths. The thorp has grown around the crumbling walls of an ancient mausoleum. Misremembered legends handed down, around, and, in some rare cases, handed back up again tell of an ancient, sprawling empire that spanned the stretches of the swamp from the coast of the inland sea to the far reaches of the mountains, but if ever such a fantastical thing existed (and there is no agreement among scholars that such a thing is anything other than a fantasy), this site is the only surviving remnant. The thorp began as a camp established to explore the dungeon and plumb its depths for ancient secrets and treasures, but has survived as a tourist destination of sorts. People say that any hero worth their salt began their career plunging into the darkness of the mausoleum as a sort of rite of passage. Adventurers travel with the trade caravans that periodically brave the swamp to earn their stripes fending off the undead critters that lie in the depths.

You are one such would-be hero, either travelling alone or as part of your plucky group of adventurers. You are ostensibly here to gather glowing materials to help light the town (as wood is hard to come by in the swamp, so everyone relies on fire beetle glands and what are colloquially known as "mushroom glow-sticks"), but each of you has the heady smell of adventure about you (at your preference, perhaps literally, as the swamp odor tends to leave its mark on those who stay here for any amount of time). You've set up camp on the ground floor of the mausoleum in the midst of a room that seems to have once been devoted to some religious purpose or another, but whose sermons and chants have been usurped by the bubbling of swamp muck, croaking and chirps of bullfrogs and insects, and the ominous silence of the dead.


B1:

https://i.postimg.cc/Fzm0snh1/Dungeon-B1.png


With each step down the stairs, the ambient light grows fainter; the air grows colder; the cloying stench of must and decay grows thicker. The ancient brick walls are slick with lichen, and touching it leaves your hands feeling grimy and wet. The sounds of the swamp slowly fade away as you wade, step by step, into the darkness. It is silent. Dead. Silent.

...

After a few steps more, your eyes begin to adjust to the darkness -- and, when you near the bottom of the staircase, it gets a little brighter. A dim green glow provides just enough light to see by, casting the cracks and imperfections of the stone into sharp relief. As you reach the last step, you can see why - glowing mushrooms sprout from cracks and crevices in the walls. A row of weathered statues stand before you, the fine details of the statues have long-since been worn away; they seem somehow... sad, as they stare sightlessly past you with only the barest trace of features or expression. Suddenly, a noise shatters the silence: Plink! Somewhere, it seems the swamp is steadily trying to reclaim its own.

As you take your first step, a creature scuttles out from behind one of the statues. Its head glows a dull red, and as it waggles its head back and forth, the lights leave a slight after-image of their trail in your vision.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/9/98/Giant_fire_beetle_2e.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20210131175128

A DC11 knowledge nature check identifies the creature as a giant fire beetle, a small vermin with its associated traits. A 16 indicates that it is not usually aggressive unless hungry or threatened; some say that they are more afraid of you than you are of them, although this individual seems more curious than anything. A 21 yields that it relies on single bites from its mandibles for defense and hunting. If attacked, the creature will react; (it is ready for combat, but not intelligent enough to prepare an action when it is not going to instigate a fight, so aggressive movement prompts initiative rather than a surprise round); it chitters angrily and shrilly, almost like the hum of a cicada, as it clamps down on any limbs it can reach. It has 4hp, 16AC, and attacks with a +1 bite (2d4 damage). Upon downing the creature, a DC10 survival check allows for harvesting the glowing glands without incident; adventurers know they can take 10 on such a check. Failure by 5 or more destroys the parts. The glands can be sold in the town for 5 gold each (or purchased for 9).

As the adventurers advance through the cavernous corridors, they may harvest mushrooms from the walls; the smaller the mushrooms, the less the town is willing to pay for them (1gp/pound for the common size found growing in the walls), but they may make multiple trips if they choose to.


As you move down the hallway, the silence grows thick around you again. It is difficult to see too far ahead; the glow of the mushrooms only reaches about ten feet from each clump, leaving patches of shadowy illumination or even darkness between the islands of light. The mushrooms seem to grow especially thickly around the sarcophagi nestled into tiered alcoves built into the walls, long-since broken open and pillaged; they also seem to grow thickly around certain spots on the floor, clustering around red X-shapes here and there, but never on the exact same spaces as the shapes.

A DC10 search check on a square with a red X yields the presence of a trap; the area around the mechanism is very well-worn, making it easier to find than normal. A DC15 Knowledge Nature check yields that these mushrooms, as one might guess, tend to grow in dark areas with a lot of decomposition and decay, but their growth can be impeded by too much disturbance or movement.

Upon stepping in the square, the player should be prompted with a DC10 reflex save as the hall is filled with the groaning of tortured, ancient gears turning and the trap activates, but slower than it would have in its heyday. The trap will deal 1d3 bludgeoning damage, or half with a successful save (rounded up), as blades of the trap have long-since dulled and worn down.

The southwest, southeast, and northeast passages each have an additional chamber to investigate on their route. It requires a DC10 strength check to open these doors, but only have the party roll for the first door, then describe the difficulty afterward.

The southwest chamber has two chests; both are empty.

The northeast chamber has a pile of rubble (presumably where part of the ceiling caved in).

The southeast chamber includes a chest (empty) and a corpse. A DC15 heal check or DC20 spot check yields that the wounds are fresh; this man died recently, although it's not immediately clear from what. A DC20 heal check yields that the wounds don't seem to be from slicing damage, which rules out some manufactured weapons. He has two rings on him (nonmagical, worth ~30gp each) and two pairs of manacles (15gp each). A DC10 knowledge local check indicates this is the mayor; DC15 indicates that he is somewhat popular. This will be relevant later for a murder-mystery quest (spoiler: the beetles infesting the dungeon started feasting on the corpses and undead. The undead are a major draw to the dungeon (slaying beetles just doesn't have the same romance), and tourism is the life-blood of the thorp, so the mayor was down here luring zombies into the crypt to restock it from the swamp and save the town. There was some sort of accident, and the mayor was barely able to close the door before he was felled by a stray attack of opportunity). Just outside the chamber lies some sort of remains, thoroughly gnawed-on and picked clean.

The passageways each lead to another large set of stone doors (DC10 strength check to open or close them). The doors seem to have some sort of inscription on them in barely legible runes. A DC30 decipher script check can uncover some of the meaning (here lies... secret... balance... lands...); otherwise, it's all Greek to them, so to speak.

Before each door lie two statues on each side in front of some decorative carvings. The western entrance is missing a statue, however; even the plinth is gone. After seeing a second entrance apart from the western one, a DC10 wisdom check prompts the party to notice the missing statue (if they haven't already), but nothing further can be found here at this time.


Pushing open the large doors, you must blink to adjust to the light in the new room. The colonies of mushrooms seem to have grown much more vigorously in this room, dominating the surfaces of the large support pillars that hold the vaulted ceiling; your instincts tell you these specimens would be worth much, much more than their smaller brethren in the hallways. The open sarcophagi at the center of the room have been similarly overcome. You only have a moment to absorb this information, however, before some sort of shambling horror turns its attention to you and begins to lurch in your direction.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/spirit-halloween-store/images/9/9a/01107226-a.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20191225020916

If the party enters from the north or west, they are immediately accosted by a bipedal creature. A DC 12 Knowledge Religion check identifies it as a halfling zombie, an undead creature with all the associated traits; a 17 indicates that it is slow, usually only taking one action at a time, and is resistant to nonmagical damage except for slashing weapons; a 22 indicates that it has no special attacks, and typically relies on mindlessly making a bee-line for its nearest prey and trading blows until it wins or dies. The creature has 16hp, 12 AC (11 flatfooted, 11 touch), DR5/slashing, and a +3 slam attack (1d4 +1 damage). They are mindless, so if kited, will walk through the traps and automatically fail the reflex saves to avoid damage, but will stop following after losing line of sight for more than a few rounds.

If the party enters from the south or east, they immediately see an altercation of sorts taking place between a creature (same knowledge checks as before to identify it as a halfling zombie or, perhaps more accurately at this point, a quarterling zombie) in pitched combat with two giant fire beetles. The zombie's legs have been almost entirely stripped of flesh, and it is now prone, with the penalties associated with being prone. This zombie has 8hp remaining, 8AC against melee attacks, 16AC against ranged attacks, the normal special qualities, a -1 slam attack, and a movement speed of 5. One of the beetles is missing a leg and leaking some sort of ichor from its thorax, but the other seems unharmed. The party may wait out the combat, in which case the beetles eventually slay the zombie and continue to devour the body, or engage themselves (in which case all three will be hostile to the party, but will attack the creature that most recently attacked it in initiative).

Investigating the sarcophagi around the central support beam yield... nothing. Again, this dungeon has been well-looted save for the mushrooms. Some of them have chewed-through remains, similar to the corpse outside the east entrance. The larger mushrooms, if harvested, can be sold for 5gp/pound in town. Harvesting the larger mushrooms from the central support beam causes a rumble, and a crack runs west along the ceiling. A small amount of rubble falls, but then the tremors subside. A DC10 listen check yields an odd metallic sound from the west.

If the party investigates the western door, they will see that the crack ran down the wall opposite the door and suddenly stopped, branching slightly into an inexplicably manufactured-looking square shape. A DC20 search check now yields, after much prodding and pushing, a sliding mechanism to trigger a secret door. It is clear that, absent this crack, this mechanism would likely never have been found by low-level adventurers. Inside the secret door is a lever; pulling it yields a second rumbling sound, and more dust and mortar falling from the ceiling, but then silence once more.

Upon returning to the ground floor, the party will see that the altar has slid aside to reveal a hitherto unknown secret staircase; this has not been mentioned in any of the records relating to this dungeon.


B2:

https://i.postimg.cc/xjyKFYPm/Dungeon-B2.png


The stairs seem to go down... down... down... almost endlessly. With each step, the air seems to grow more stale, more heavy. Is it the gravity of the situation? Or is it the weight of the mud and muck just outside these bricks, pressing, pressing in on you? If the tunnel collapsed, or if the altar moved back, would anyone find you? Would anyone even know you were down here at all?

...

After what seems like an eternity, you notice a glow from below you on the staircase. That glow slowly grows into a steady shine, and you emerge into a corridor coated in mushrooms; it would appear their growth had gone undisturbed for a long time. If the dungeon seemed silent before, the silence is deafening now. The mushrooms seem to swallow up the sounds of your breaths, your footsteps, your heartbeat. Your ears ring a little, as if they were trying to compensate for the silence. Down a stretch of hallway, you reach one more large and imposing set of doors, much like those leading to the central chamber above.

This door requires a DC15 strength check to open.


The doors grind open, and there is a brief chiming sound. Light floods from the chamber before you, as mushrooms of absolutely gargantuan sizes sprout here and there in the room, taking full advantage of the space. Out of the corner of your eye, you spot what looks to be some vaguely bipedal shape buried under still more mushroom growth. Four sarcophagi lie against the central pillar before you, closed. However, between you and the sarcophagi rise four tiny creatures, each seeming to be some sort of amalgamation of crumbling stone and metal. They stand amidst the tortured scream of rusted metal on metal, then move in your direction.

https://media-waterdeep.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/8/429/1000/1000/636306156895834255.jpeg

A DC11 Knowledge Arcana check identifies these creatures as some sort of animated object, although there is no caster that the party can see, with all the normal traits constructs possess. A DC16 check indicates that animated objects are resistant to physical blows, as are the materials they are composed of, and that these look to be a bit more fragile than stone. A DC21 indicates that such objects mindlessly follow the orders they were given, and so rely on their attacks to trade blows until death, much like the zombies upstairs. The animated objects are tiny, have 2hp, hardness 4 (the stone is ancient and crumbling, much like everything else in the dungeon), 14AC, and a +1 slam that deals 1d3-1 damage.

The sarcophagi contain an appropriate masterwork cold-iron weapon for each party member. Add the Feycraft template for each mundane, non-caster rogue-type character, but don't count it against their wbl. The mushrooms crumble if the party attempts to harvest them, having overgrown beyond their structural integrity. They are worth 5 silver per pound if dragged up.

Behind the central pillar is a large tablet made out of a strange material. Similar runes are carved into the side, but are worn beyond recognition. It is firmly fixed to the wall and resists any efforts to remove it; in fact, it seems to be essential to the structural integrity of the entire pillar. It detects overwhelmingly to detect magic as an abjuration of some kind. However, absent a macguffin the party will get later, the party won't be able to do much with it.



Hello, friends! I am planning my first campaign, and I was seeking some feedback on what I've put together for my campaign so far from any more experienced DMs. I'm particularly worried about balancing the combats; level 1 is such a swingy beast, but I'm worried I may have under-tuned it too much to compensate.

If you were recently in a campaign with Doggrel, Orion, Arianna, Tironsilas, Lam, or Crow, read no further; consider that your warning.

Hello, friends! I am planning my first campaign, and I was seeking some feedback on what I've put together for my campaign so far from any more experienced DMs. I'm particularly worried about balancing the combats; level 1 is such a swingy beast, but I'm worried I may have under-tuned it too much to compensate.

Setting: In the midst of a vast swamp, there is a small, but well-fortified thorp. It has grown around the crumbling walls of an ancient mausoleum. Misremembered legends tell of an ancient, sprawling empire that spanned the stretches of swamp to the far reaches of the mountains, but if ever such a fantastical thing existed (and there is no agreement among scholars that such a thing is anything other than a fantasy), this is the only surviving remnant. The thorp began as a camp established to explore the dungeon and plumb its depths for ancient secrets and treasures, but has survived as a tourist destination of sorts. People say that any hero worth their salt began their career plunging into the darkness of the mausoleum as a sort of rite of passage. Adventurers travel with the trade caravans that periodically brave the swamp to earn their stripes fending off the undead critters that lie in the depths. Our heroes are one such plucky group of adventurers, each exploring the dungeon either independently or as part of a group, ostensibly to gather bioluminescent materials to help light the town (as wood is hard to come by in the swamp); there are two entrances that lead to the depths.

https://i.imgur.com/fjWg27Q.png

https://i.imgur.com/llPc402.png

https://i.imgur.com/U1c4qaH.png

https://i.imgur.com/GaXh7M0.png



B1: Upon entering the Dungeon B1, the adventurers will be greeted by the fetid, cloying stench of must and decay. The walls are slick with lichen and, although there aren't any visible puddles, the distant Plink! of dripping water can be heard. For some inexplicable reason, the silence of the dungeon seems pregnant with some sort of anticipation, as if there were an audience just out of sight waiting with bated breath to hear what they would say. Plink! A row of statues stand before the stairs. The stonework is weathered and riddled with divots from the ravages of water and time, and the lions' share of their features have been worn away to nothing; the half-suggestion of facial features, staring sightlessly ahead, could be enough to unnerve those of weaker constitutions. Plink! Here and there, small, green mushrooms sprout from the seams and cracks in the brickwork of the walls, each glowing enough to provide dim, but steady light for about 10 feet. The mushrooms have been a key part of the dungeon's aesthetic that has made it so attractive to adventurers; their glow is enough to see by, more or less, but leaves enough to the imagination to leave the thrill of danger and mystery. People say that any real dungeon always has glowing mushrooms... Plink!

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/9/98/Giant_fire_beetle_2e.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20210131175128

Regardless of which entrance the adventurers chose, as they enter, a creature scuttles out from behind one of the statues. Its head glows a dull red, and as it waggles its head back and forth, the lights leave a slight after-image of their trail in your vision. A DC11 knowledge nature check identifies the creature as a giant fire beetle, a small vermin with its associated traits. A 12 indicates that it is not usually aggressive unless hungry or threatened; some say that they are more afraid of you than you are of them, although this individual seems more curious than anything. A 13 yields that it relies on single bites from its mandibles for defense and hunting. If attacked, the creature will react (it is ready for combat, but not intelligent enough to prepare an action when it is not going to instigate a fight, so aggressive movement prompts initiative rather than a surprise round); it chitters angrily and shrilly, almost like the hum of a cicada, as it clamps down on any limbs it can reach. It has 4hp, 16AC, and attacks with a +1 bite (2d4 damage). As it is by itself, as long as it doesn't win initiative and crit, this shouldn't be a lethal encounter, and the party should be able to retreat if there are any significant injuries sustained. Upon downing the creature, a DC10 survival check allows for harvesting the glowing glands without incident; adventurers know they can take 10 on such a check. Failure by 5 or more destroys the parts. The glands can be sold in the town for 30 gold each (based roughly on the cost of a Sunrod).

As the adventurers advance through the cavernous corridors, they may harvest mushrooms from the walls; the smaller the mushrooms, the less the town is willing to pay for them, but they may make multiple trips if they choose to; it may not seem worth it for the greedier adventurers, but the risk-averse may appreciate the relatively safe, steady income. As they walk down, a the players may notice (or the adventurers may be prompted to notice with a DC5 spot check) some cracking red paint on the floor in the shape of an X. There are several such marks clustered around this part of the hallway, and the mushroom growth is very dense around the area where the X is marked, but there are almost no mushrooms on the marked spaces themselves. A DC10 search check yields the presence of a trap; the area around the mechanism is very well-worn, making it easier to find than normal. Stepping on the mark yields a DC5 listen check to hear the groaning of tortured, ancient gears turning, rusted hinges grinding on one another, and dilapidated mechanisms activating. A very old trap activates (slower than it used to be; DC7 if the player noticed any of the earlier hints, or DC10 without any hints), dealing 1d3 bludgeoning damage (the blades have long-since dulled and worn down, just as the statues and mechanism have) on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one (rounded up). Deeper along each corridor is a second trap; this has no X marking it, but a DC 15 spot check yields that the mushrooms growth around that square looks familiar (or the players may notice on their own). The mushrooms grew especially thick there due to the blood splatters from adventurer injuries, but the traps also damage mushroom growth where they actually activate. Apart from the more difficult spot check, these traps are identical to the more clearly marked ones.

The southwest, southeast, and northeast passages each have an additional chamber to investigate on their route.

The southwest chamber has two chests; both are empty. This dungeon has been often-plundered and, were it not for the fact that the mushrooms are worth more than the chests, even the chests would probably have long-since been taken out of here.

The northeast chamber has a pile of rubble (presumably where part of the ceiling caved in), but a DC15 spot or search check yields the presence of a crystal (that can be sold for 100gp in the town).

The southeast chamber includes a chest (empty) and a corpse. A DC15 heal check or DC20 spot or search check yields that the wounds are fresh; this man died recently, although it's not immediately clear from what. A DC20 heal check yields that the wounds don't seem to be from slicing damage, which rules out some manufactured weapons. He has two rings on him (nonmagical, worth ~30gp each) and two pairs of manacles (15gp each). A DC10 knowledge local check indicates this is the mayor; DC15 indicates that he is somewhat popular; DC20 indicates he has been seen recently; DC25 indicates that you are fairly certain there were no recent rumors of a kidnapping. The same DCs may be used to gather this information in the thorp later, and will be used for a murder-mystery quest (spoiler: the mayor was down here luring zombies into the crypt because the beetles have been eating them all, he fears the crypts will become too boring if they seem "safe," and the town will lose its tourism).

The passageways each lead to a large set of stone doors (DC10 strength check to open or close them). The doors seem to have some sort of inscription on them in barely legible runes. A DC30 decipher script check can uncover some of the meaning (here lies... secret... balance... lands...); otherwise, it's all Greek to them, so to speak.

Before each door lie two statues on each side in front of some decorative carvings. The northwest passage is missing a statue, however; even the plinth is gone. A giant fire beetle clings to the wall where it would be, evidently eating some of the mushrooms. Attacking the beetle and missing its AC results in the adventurer striking the wall. A DC 15 listen check yields an odd sound during the strike. A DC25 spot check (or DC15 if you've seen the other entryways to notice the difference) reveals that the empty space seems weird. A DC20 reveals that the panel moves inward, then sinks when pressed on, revealing a secret chamber behind with a lever. Pulling the lever causes a grinding sound; a DC17 yields that the sound seems to be coming from upward.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/spirit-halloween-store/images/9/9a/01107226-a.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20191225020916

Entering the doors leads the adventurers to the central chamber. The chamber is much larger, and the ceiling is higher, and the mushrooms have grown to much more impressive sizes; if harvested, these mushrooms would sell for 50gp each. On the western side of the chamber is the top half of a decaying creature, yet it turns to observe the newcomers; its lower half is skeletal, and not very functional. A DC 11 Knowledge Religion check identifies it as a halfling zombie (or perhaps more accurately a quarterling zombie at this point), a 15 indicates that it resistant to nonmagical damage except for slashing weapons, and a 20 indicates that it can only take one action at a time as a slow creature. On the right-hand side is a zombie in a similar state, with two giant fire beetles biting into what remains of its legs. The zombie seems indifferent to the beetles; a DC15 Knowledge Arcana check indicates that some magical effects can cause undead creatures to only be hostile to certain types of other creatures. Both zombies, when they have line of sight to the adventurers, become hostile and begin moving. The beetles scuttle way, but will retaliate together if attacked. The zombies, missing their legs, have their movement reduced by half and are considered prone (-4 to attacks rolls, -4 to AC against melee attacks, +4 to AC against ranged attacks), but have their full hitpoints (16), AC (12), attacks (+2 slam (-4 for prone), 1d3 +1 damage), and DR (5/slashing). They are mindless, so if kited, will walk through the traps and automatically fail the reflex saves to avoid damage, but will stop following after losing line of sight for more than a few rounds.

Investigating the sarcophagi around the central support beam yield... nothing. Again, this dungeon has been well-looted save for the mushrooms. One of them has a skeleton! ... A generic, actually-dead skeleton though. Harvesting the larger mushrooms from the central support beam causes a rumble, and a crack runs northwest (as if the structure were marginally less well-supported in that area; there is a small crashing sound. Investigation yields a small pile of rubble outside the door, and a crack that runs down to the location of the secret panel and stopping there; a DC10 spot check yields that that seems weird. Why would the crack stop there?

If the party is able to find the secret lever, they will discover (upon returning to floor G) that the altar has slid backward to reveal a downward staircase (that has thusfar gone unmentioned in other records of the dungeon). The air is stale, and almost seems to be equal parts dust. The stairway descends sharply into darkness, but there is a bright glow visible in the distance.

https://i.imgur.com/6fXJMMV.png

B2: At the bottom of the winding staircase, the glowing mushrooms sprout from every available crack and crevice in the walls; it seems their growth has gone undisturbed for a long time. The mushrooms muffle the party's echoing footsteps as they progress down the hallway; at the end lies a large and imposing door, similar to those above, although this one requires a DC15 strength check, as it has been opened much less frequently. Inside is another circular chamber, a mirror of the chamber above, but its contents are much larger in scale. The sarcophagi are larger (and unopened), and the mushrooms around the pillars have grown to a gargantuan scale. The sarcophagi contain an appropriate shield or armor piece for each party member made with the Feycraft template, as the remnants of what appears to have once been armor (DC10 survival check to determine the moisture destroyed some sort of leather or wood material). The mushrooms, although large, have actually become cumbersome to work with, and are worth less than the large mushrooms in the central chamber above if the party somehow manages to drag them up the narrow steps.

In addition to those sources of WBL, the room also contains a large, metallic creature of some sort lying flat on its back. It doesn't react when approached, and scores of colonies of mushrooms sprout from its body; a DC14 Knowledge Arcana check will identify it as some sort of permanent animated object, although the object in question is difficult to determine. Additionally, when the doors open, with the grinding of ancient metal on metal, four tiny animated objects (DC11 Knowledge Arcana check to identify) turn towards the party and attack (2hp, hardness 8, 14 AC, +1 slam that deals 1d3-1).

https://media-waterdeep.cursecdn.com/avatars/thumbnails/8/429/1000/1000/636306156895834255.jpeg

Investigation of the room reveals a large tablet made out of a strange material. Similar runes are carved into the side, but are worn beyond recognition. It detects overwhelmingly to detect magic as an abjuration of some kind. However, absent a macguffin the party will get later, the party won't be able to do much with it.

RNightstalker
2021-02-15, 01:40 PM
I don't know if it is me or not but none of the map images loaded. That will make feedback hard.

Doctor Despair
2021-02-15, 02:01 PM
I don't know if it is me or not but none of the map images loaded. That will make feedback hard.

That's weird -- they load for me on mobile, so it's not a cached image thing. Here are the direct links.


[SPOILER=Swamp Map]

https://i.imgur.com/fjWg27Q.png

[SPOILER=Large Map]

https://i.imgur.com/llPc402.png

[SPOILER=Dungeon (G)]

https://i.imgur.com/U1c4qaH.png

[SPOILER=Dungeon (B1)]

https://i.imgur.com/GaXh7M0.png


[SPOILER=Dungeon (B2)]

https://i.imgur.com/6fXJMMV.png

Calthropstu
2021-02-15, 02:08 PM
That's weird -- they load for me on mobile, so it's not a cached image thing. Here are the direct links.


[SPOILER=Swamp Map]

https://i.imgur.com/fjWg27Q.png

[SPOILER=Large Map]

https://i.imgur.com/llPc402.png

[SPOILER=Dungeon (G)]

https://i.imgur.com/U1c4qaH.png

[SPOILER=Dungeon (B1)]

https://i.imgur.com/GaXh7M0.png


[SPOILER=Dungeon (B2)]

https://i.imgur.com/6fXJMMV.png

imgur has problems loading on some browsers on some phones. It has something to do with improper handling of png images, as well as poorly implimented security features on imgur itself.

Doctor Despair
2021-02-15, 02:58 PM
imgur has problems loading on some browsers on some phones. It has something to do with improper handling of png images, as well as poorly implimented security features on imgur itself.

Oh, I see. Is there a better free image hosting site you know of? I suppose I could always try Reddit

Roninblack
2021-02-15, 04:05 PM
How large a party are you running this for? What is the party composed of?
A couple large beetles, a zombie, and an animated object encountered one at a time seems like it should be a fairly mild adventuring day, but dice can be swingy.

Are they expected to go into this dungeon multiple times? Some of your DC's seem pretty hard to hit as a lvl 1 party

Doctor Despair
2021-02-15, 07:37 PM
How large a party are you running this for? What is the party composed of?

TBD; this is for a hypothetical party in the future. However, I would prefer 4-6, so let's use 4 as a benchmark, secure in the knowledge that I can add additional creatures if need be.


A couple large beetles, a zombie, and an animated object encountered one at a time seems like it should be a fairly mild adventuring day, but dice can be swingy.

That's good to hear; I am a little worried about 8 hardness on the animated objects, but to be fair, they only have 2 hp to begin with. I've been thinking about knocking it down to 5 hardness, although then it'd be more consistent with wood than stone, and that makes less in-universe sense...


Are they expected to go into this dungeon multiple times? Some of your DC's seem pretty hard to hit as a lvl 1 party

I tried to structure it such that the party can push through it all in one go with good resource management and lucky combat rolls, but that there isn't major consequence to withdrawing to the ground floor to rest or heal up as needed. I figured that could help pad the swingyness of level 1 combat, since they can go rest up after an unlucky high-roll from a beetle.

The listed DCs are...


DC11: Knowledge Nature to identify the beetles
DC10: Survival to harvest the beetle's glands
DC5: Spot check to notice the paint marking the traps (also shows on the map)
DC10: Search check to find the traps
DC5: Listen check to hear the trap activating
DC7: Reflex save for the trap if they passed any earlier checks
DC10: Reflex save for the trap if they passed no earlier checks
DC15: Spot check to notice the mushroom growth indicating the trap presence (also shows on the map)
DC15: Spot or search to find a crystal in the rubble
DC20: Spot or search to identify that the corpse wounds are fresh
DC15: Heal check to identify that the wounds are fresh
DC20: Heal check to identify the wounds were not from slicing damage
DC10/15/20/25: Knowledge Local/Gather Information for information on the corpse
DC10: Strength check to open the central chamber doors
DC30: Decipher Script to identify some of the less worn-down inscriptions on the door
DC15: Listen check when striking wall near beetle to identify hollow sound
DC25: Spot check to notice strange feeling about wall
DC15: Spot check to notice the missing statue after seeing another entrance
DC10 Spot check to notice the panel after harvesting the mushrooms
DC20 search check reveals the hidden panel
DC17 Listen check to identify direction of sound
DC11 Knowledge Religion check to identify the zombies
DC15 Knowledge Arcana check to identify the zombie's aggro mechanics
DC15 strength check to open the doors on B2
DC10 survival check to identify the destroyed contents of the sarcophagi
DC14 Knowledge Arcana check to identify the larger animated object
DC11 Knowledge Arcana check to identify the smaller animated objects


Which DCs seem overtuned? If it's the decipher script one, that's moreso just in case a player optimizes the skill and wants to use it; a 30 is supposed to yield information on intricate, exotic, or very old writing, so I figured it'd be frustrating if they hit the 30 and don't get rewarded in some way for it. With that said, it was added as an afterthought; I hadn't originally planned on the players being able to read the script at all, but it occurred to me someone might take Comprehend Languages or pump the skill.

Roninblack
2021-02-15, 09:08 PM
DC 20 is supposed to be pretty hard to hit, but that's the average search and disable device check for traps, it's the 25 and 30 I was commenting on.
Assuming one of the party members has it as a class skill with max ranks that gives them +4, another +2-+4 from attributes. So a character whose focus that is needs a 12-14 on the dice to beat a DC 20. Aid other makes that a little easier.
But a DC 30 would require even the highest of what I described to roll a 20 to hit a DC 30 at 1st level. There are ways to bring it down a little, but that's still really high.

Don't get me wrong, if they go in a few times, roll well, or optimize better then I'm expecting then yeah finding the esoteric knowledge is cool for them.

Now as for hardness 8, it's pretty tough to break. A decent first level fighter or barbarian is going to struggle to deal a whole lot of damage, but the action economy heavily favors your party. Particularly if they have 2 front liners I wouldn't mess with it. Alternatively if you want to drop the hardness have the object be old crumbly stone which does fit your description

Fizban
2021-02-16, 12:11 AM
General note: depending on the characters, dealing with a six-person (or five-person) party is more than just adding more monsters. Multiple melee characters compete for the best spot to stand next to the enemy and literally require more room to accomodate, more bodies means more obstructions to line of sight for ranged characters- and more power for every group buff. Having even one extra full caster massively changes the expected stamina of the party, doubling daily recovery, doubling magical offense and AoEs, or more.

Skimming regarding DCs shows what I'd call a massive amount of extraneous skill checks. The 3.5 skill system is good, and can involve lots of checks and provides DCs for many things, but frequently DMs (and module writers) get confused and decide the response is every player action is "roll me a check," or gate basic visual information behind pointless rolls. Unless the system explicitly calls for a check, most of the time there's no need for one, especially if the players want to roleplay their investigation.

Fire beetle stuff: okay, you pre-decided on what stuff is gained for knowledge checks, but instead of +5 increments you've gone with +1s. Extreme granularity for a check the players likely won't even bother with. Sunrods cost 2gp and never expire, fire beetle sacks should not sell for 30, unless this is a major decision that loot for no-gear creatures is harvested.

or the adventurers may be prompted to notice with a DC5 spot check
The standard use of spot checks is meant to be passive on the DM side, so if the intent is players to roll spot to get the prompt, that's backwards. Furthermore, I don't see a point in spamming DC 5 listen (or any other) checks- either you want them to hear or see something, or not, and if 3/4 of the party is going to hear it there's no point in making four rolls just to see who botches one when it's not going to matter anyway. I doubt anyone will get the connection between mushroom and trap triggers, and I'm pretty sure it would take more than a splash of blood to do that anyway.

DC 15 to find a 100gp crystal: gating loot behind arbitrary search checks in arbitrary locations is one of the major problems of published modules. Unless this is a very small extra bit compared to the rest of the loot they won't miss, I do not find this appropriate. It's also the kind of thing that leads to people declaring active search check rolls on every pile of rubble they see, in the fear they'll miss loot and be behind.

Mayor identification: this section uses the standard +5 for extra bits of information, but ironically this is the part where I'd say they're not appropriate- the information listed here is the type you'd get with Gather Information, not Knowledge, aside from the identification and basic popularity.

DC10 door open is fine, used for setting the scene, but be aware that after the first few times the players roll to push open a stuck door they're going to get tired of it. Unless they can't take 10 and/or there's something around to hear the racket, stuck doors don't need rolling.

I don't have any problem with a proper DC 30 Decipher Script, but I do also question the purpose. It cannot be take 20'd or even retried, and doesn't seem to impart any real information if made. This is the sort of thing I might mention in a "sidebar," just in case a player brings it up- but much like Sense Motive, the fact that making the skill roll can impart false information for failure means that rolling is actually a bad idea unless you have a good reason. In such a case, the DM should also have the false information prepared, in a way that won't derail the game.


A giant fire beetle clings to the wall where it would be, evidently eating some of the mushrooms. Attacking the beetle and missing its AC results in the adventurer striking the wall. A DC 15 listen check yields an odd sound during the strike. A DC25 spot check (or DC15 if you've seen the other entryways to notice the difference) reveals that the empty space seems weird. A DC20 reveals that the panel moves inward, then sinks when pressed on, revealing a secret chamber behind with a lever. Pulling the lever causes a grinding sound; a DC17 yields that the sound seems to be coming from upward.
Giant fire beetles have no climb speed and +0 to the skill. Missing attacks doesn't work like that and setting the precedent is dangerous, as it implies you'll be holding to all sorts of "striking cover" interpretations which invariably seem to end with PCs randomly hitting each other for no reason. I see where you're going with the 'old wall tapping, but the DCs here are suddenly so high that taking the action seems to have little benefit. Spot is not the correct skill for this, and in fact the whole section should be covered by Search, with possible no-skill roleplaying solution. The whole point of skill checks is that they let you bypass the need for player "detective work," not that the players have to do so just to have the privilege of rolling their skills.

Zombie info: you've set up knowledge beforehand again, that's good, and with the normal DCs this time. Note that if your players have any experience, it's entirely likely they'll find DC 15 and 20 for basic zombie info pretty high, and likely know it by heart already.


On the right-hand side is a zombie in a similar state, with two giant fire beetles biting into what remains of its legs. The zombie seems indifferent to the beetles; a DC15 Knowledge Arcana check indicates that some magical effects can cause undead creatures to only be hostile to certain types of other creatures.
Is this actually using an existing mechanic, or something you made up? If the former, there's probably a standard DC. If the latter, that's fine, but this is still another DC 15 check to essentially guess the obvious. The zombies are ignoring the bugs, that's weird, well maybe it's magic? Unless this becomes important in some way, why not just have the bugs and zombies in separate rooms?

The zombies, missing their legs, have their movement reduced by half and are considered prone (-4 to attacks rolls, -4 to AC against melee attacks, +4 to AC against ranged attacks), but have their full hitpoints (16), AC (12), attacks (+2 slam (-4 for prone), 1d3 +1 damage), and DR (5/slashing). They are mindless, so if kited, will walk through the traps and automatically fail the reflex saves to avoid damage, but will stop following after losing line of sight for more than a few rounds.
Being prone also means they have to crawl at 5' per round. Zombies are already slow enough to kite, cutting off their legs makes them all but zero-threat.

Investigation yields a small pile of rubble outside the door, and a crack that runs down to the location of the secret panel and stopping there; a DC10 spot check yields that that seems weird. Why would the crack stop there?
Once again, that's a Search check. Or if the crack is plainly visible and the players didn't get it from the description, maybe a Wis check for intuition. Or just something you tell them as soon as they show an interest in the discrepancy. Either this is required information, in which case it should not be difficult, or it's fluff that's being mediated by unnecessary checks.

DC10 Survival to know leather and wood rot: Really?

Hardness 8 animated objects: these are a problem. Unless you you've got strong two-handers with good rolls, that's basically immune to damage, on top of a good 50% miss chance from AC. Even at 1 damage per hit, with four of them and AoOs for people that try move away, these could still rack up a surprising amount of damage.

Feycraft loot: this might sounds like a good idea, but what benefit does it actually give? You mention WBL, but WBL is not cash value. It's useful equipment that makes the characters better at their jobs- only a character that actually benefits from the unique properties should really even be counting feycraft as wealth. Having a short day-long adventure of four encounters or so where the party gets loot and goes back to town at the end is good, it means they can fill out basic armor and weapons they couldn't fit on starting gold (proper longbows, greatswords, chainmail or breastplate, etc) they couldn't quite afford with starting gear and buy or craft some basic consumables to prepare for a longer adventures and mitigate risk (even up to just a flat-out wand of cure light, if they pool their money). A few specific feycraft items does not support this.

Furthermore, there's no requirement to stick to "exact WBL/treasure values/etc." You can give them appropriate useful cash *and* the feycraft gear if you want, and just shave some treasure off the next adventure or two.

Doctor Despair
2021-02-16, 06:30 PM
General note: depending on the characters, dealing with a six-person (or five-person) party is more than just adding more monsters. Multiple melee characters compete for the best spot to stand next to the enemy and literally require more room to accomodate, more bodies means more obstructions to line of sight for ranged characters- and more power for every group buff. Having even one extra full caster massively changes the expected stamina of the party, doubling daily recovery, doubling magical offense and AoEs, or more.

That's a fair point; I can widen the hallways by a square if we end up with a larger party. Right now we have 2 confirmed players, and I wouldn't run it without at least 4, hence the range.



Skimming regarding DCs shows what I'd call a massive amount of extraneous skill checks. The 3.5 skill system is good, and can involve lots of checks and provides DCs for many things, but frequently DMs (and module writers) get confused and decide the response is every player action is "roll me a check," or gate basic visual information behind pointless rolls. Unless the system explicitly calls for a check, most of the time there's no need for one, especially if the players want to roleplay their investigation.

...

The standard use of spot checks is meant to be passive on the DM side, so if the intent is players to roll spot to get the prompt, that's backwards. Furthermore, I don't see a point in spamming DC 5 listen (or any other) checks- either you want them to hear or see something, or not, and if 3/4 of the party is going to hear it there's no point in making four rolls just to see who botches one when it's not going to matter anyway. I doubt anyone will get the connection between mushroom and trap triggers, and I'm pretty sure it would take more than a splash of blood to do that anyway.

That's true; assuming the party is taking 10, the low-DC spot checks and listen checks are probably unnecessary. I suppose I don't need to include the spot/listen checks for the traps; I was trying to justify a reason to situationally lower the DC from 10 to 7, but with the visual clues I left, they should be able to avoid them regardless (assuming they're observant enough to make that connection). DC10 isn't insurmountable for level 1 characters anyway, especially if they have a high-dex character with a good reflex save lead. Maybe, with regard to finding the pattern, a DC15 Knowledge Nature check would be appropriate to know they thrive in damp places especially rich with nutrients from decomposition?



Fire beetle stuff: okay, you pre-decided on what stuff is gained for knowledge checks, but instead of +5 increments you've gone with +1s. Extreme granularity for a check the players likely won't even bother with. Sunrods cost 2gp and never expire, fire beetle sacks should not sell for 30, unless this is a major decision that loot for no-gear creatures is harvested.

I was using a quest-related reason for hunting the bugs, as I didn't plan to have them be immediately hostile to scale down the danger a little. I figured creating a reason for the party to get the first hit in combat would also help reduce the swingyness of level 1 combat.

For the knowledges, I'm not sure why I marked them as +1s; I'll chalk it up to working late at night. You're absolutely right that it should have been +5s.

Sunrods expire after 6 hours, and beetle glands last for up to 6 days; assuming every gland lasts the maximum duration, that means the gland would last for 144 hours, or 24 times as long, so I lowballed the price from 48 to 30. On the other hand, looking back at it, they'd only be useful half the time (as that includes daylight hours), and the average duration would be half as long, so maybe 6x the cost would be more appropriate, or 12gp.



DC 15 to find a 100gp crystal: gating loot behind arbitrary search checks in arbitrary locations is one of the major problems of published modules. Unless this is a very small extra bit compared to the rest of the loot they won't miss, I do not find this appropriate. It's also the kind of thing that leads to people declaring active search check rolls on every pile of rubble they see, in the fear they'll miss loot and be behind.

Would you say it'd be more appropriate with a visual clue? They're presumably going to open the door, so maybe something like: "When you open the door, a cloud of dust kicks up, and a shower of small stones and rubble spills out around your feet. You think you catch a flash of something small and sparkly in between the stones for a brief moment, but you can't be sure."



Mayor identification: this section uses the standard +5 for extra bits of information, but ironically this is the part where I'd say they're not appropriate- the information listed here is the type you'd get with Gather Information, not Knowledge, aside from the identification and basic popularity.

So maybe just nix the 20/25 and leave those for gather information/roleplay questioning later, then?



DC10 door open is fine, used for setting the scene, but be aware that after the first few times the players roll to push open a stuck door they're going to get tired of it. Unless they can't take 10 and/or there's something around to hear the racket, stuck doors don't need rolling.

Fair enough; assuming the party is taking 10 when trying to open the door, I can probably describe the process being repeated rather than asking for more dice.



I don't have any problem with a proper DC 30 Decipher Script, but I do also question the purpose. It cannot be take 20'd or even retried, and doesn't seem to impart any real information if made. This is the sort of thing I might mention in a "sidebar," just in case a player brings it up- but much like Sense Motive, the fact that making the skill roll can impart false information for failure means that rolling is actually a bad idea unless you have a good reason. In such a case, the DM should also have the false information prepared, in a way that won't derail the game.

The "sidebar" is more or less the gist; I didn't intend to call for the check unless one of them asked to make it. I don't expect any of the players to ask (as it's literally never come up in any of our previous campaigns, save for when a player wants to read a book for which they don't have the appropriate language), but I wanted to be prepared with something better than "Uh... it's illegible. Weird."



Giant fire beetles have no climb speed and +0 to the skill. Missing attacks doesn't work like that and setting the precedent is dangerous, as it implies you'll be holding to all sorts of "striking cover" interpretations which invariably seem to end with PCs randomly hitting each other for no reason. I see where you're going with the 'old wall tapping, but the DCs here are suddenly so high that taking the action seems to have little benefit. Spot is not the correct skill for this, and in fact the whole section should be covered by Search, with possible no-skill roleplaying solution. The whole point of skill checks is that they let you bypass the need for player "detective work," not that the players have to do so just to have the privilege of rolling their skills.

...

Once again, that's a Search check. Or if the crack is plainly visible and the players didn't get it from the description, maybe a Wis check for intuition. Or just something you tell them as soon as they show an interest in the discrepancy. Either this is required information, in which case it should not be difficult, or it's fluff that's being mediated by unnecessary checks.

It's funny you mention the "PCs randomly hitting each other" thing, since our usual DM loves the optional fumble rules where a confirmed nat 1 hits an ally or throws the weapon or something slapstick like that. I don't plan to use that, as martials don't need to be punished any more than they already are natively, but I do see the concern. This hidden switch did give me a bit of trouble trying to plan out. I wanted to fulfill two conditions:


There is a reason no one else has found this in a well-traveled, well-explored dungeon
This is possible for a level 1 party to find


It was difficult to find a way to fulfill both. Pretty much exclusively level 1 adventurers visit this dungeon, so it isn't impossible that a DC20 search check (standard for a secret door) on a random square would go unnoticed, but I also wanted to give a reason for PCs to search that square, as otherwise they wouldn't find it without resorting to compulsive searching on every square. Maybe... a listen check from the beetle crawling on the wall to hear a little grinding sound as it moves over the button, a wisdom check to notice the missing statue (or intuit an odd feeling about it), then a visual description for the crack, and finally leave discovering it to the search check?



Zombie info: you've set up knowledge beforehand again, that's good, and with the normal DCs this time. Note that if your players have any experience, it's entirely likely they'll find DC 15 and 20 for basic zombie info pretty high, and likely know it by heart already.

I was trying to limit it to one piece of information per 5, so I selected what I thought would be the most relevant info for a level 1 party to know. I did notice that I do have the DCs wrong here though, as zombies have a minimum of 2HD, so it would be 12/17/22. Maybe give undead traits at 12, special qualities (DR and single actions only) at 17, and tactical information (no special attacks, relies on bee-lining for single melee attacks and HP sponge-ing to overcome targets) at 22?



Is this actually using an existing mechanic, or something you made up? If the former, there's probably a standard DC. If the latter, that's fine, but this is still another DC 15 check to essentially guess the obvious. The zombies are ignoring the bugs, that's weird, well maybe it's magic? Unless this becomes important in some way, why not just have the bugs and zombies in separate rooms?

It is something I made up; I was just looking for an in-universe reason for why they would attack humanoids and not vermin. I suppose I don't need the arcana check to know that magic can do things, and there is some broad latitude given to determine how uncontrolled or naturally-occurring undead act, but I figured I would have that there in case the party asks questions. The undead not being hostile to the beetles is important as part of the murder mystery.


...and will be used for a murder-mystery quest (spoiler: the mayor was down here luring zombies into the crypt because the beetles have been eating them all, he fears the crypts will become too boring if they seem "safe," and the town will lose its tourism).

In-universe, the beetles infested the dungeon and started eating the zombies that otherwise rose in the dungeon. Come to think of it, I should add some extra coffins and sarcophagi to the walls as a source for those undead... Regardless, the undead are a major draw for the dungeon, as fledgling adventurers want to test their skills and hone their blades, or what have you. The tourism that these adventurers bring is the lifeblood of this thorp, so the absence of the zombies was a major blow; the beetles just don't have the same romance to them as slaying undead creatures. As a result of this, the mayor was leading the undead into the crypt when he suffered some sort of accident; perhaps one of the zombies got a lucky charge in, or a beetle distracted him, or he stumbled over a trap. In any event, he suffered a wound, ducked into the room, and bled out (maybe he had the Diehard feat and used a standard action to close the door, or something similar).

I suppose I can just leave it as "that's just how some undead are in-setting" and let it rest.



Being prone also means they have to crawl at 5' per round. Zombies are already slow enough to kite, cutting off their legs makes them all but zero-threat.

Zombies are normally CR2, so I was worried that one or two would be too challenging for a party, again considering how swingy level 1 combat can be. I figured reducing their movement speed would be a good way to reduce the likelihood of a TPK. I suppose I could have one of the zombies be "dead" and the other wounded instead? What do you think would be a more appropriate challenge for a level 1 party?



DC10 Survival to know leather and wood rot: Really?

Just thought I'd give people a reason to have the ranks, haha. To be fair, it'd be to identify the rot, not to know that those materials rot :smalltongue: I suppose it's either important information, or it's not.



Hardness 8 animated objects: these are a problem. Unless you you've got strong two-handers with good rolls, that's basically immune to damage, on top of a good 50% miss chance from AC. Even at 1 damage per hit, with four of them and AoOs for people that try move away, these could still rack up a surprising amount of damage.

I suppose dropping it to hardness 5 is probably for the best then. They only have 2hp each, after all.



Feycraft loot: this might sounds like a good idea, but what benefit does it actually give? You mention WBL, but WBL is not cash value. It's useful equipment that makes the characters better at their jobs- only a character that actually benefits from the unique properties should really even be counting feycraft as wealth. Having a short day-long adventure of four encounters or so where the party gets loot and goes back to town at the end is good, it means they can fill out basic armor and weapons they couldn't fit on starting gold (proper longbows, greatswords, chainmail or breastplate, etc) they couldn't quite afford with starting gear and buy or craft some basic consumables to prepare for a longer adventures and mitigate risk (even up to just a flat-out wand of cure light, if they pool their money). A few specific feycraft items does not support this.

Furthermore, there's no requirement to stick to "exact WBL/treasure values/etc." You can give them appropriate useful cash *and* the feycraft gear if you want, and just shave some treasure off the next adventure or two.

That's a fair point. I could toss out some masterwork Feycraft bucklers (0% arcane spell failure chance, at least), along with some gold and silver pieces as loot, and count the Feycraft as a +0wbl modifier. Alternatively, I suppose I could figure out some Feycraft weapons if they would be appropriate, just for the flavor of it, too, and waive or reduce the WBL value depending on if they keep or sell them for other stuff.

H_H_F_F
2021-02-16, 08:16 PM
To my eyes, you seem fine as far as combat balance goes. I do have 2 other aspects to discuss.

The first has been noted on, and it's the skill checks. There are a bit too many of them, and low DC checks are redundant, but that's not where the heart of the issue lays.

In my experience, one of the things people often miss about DMing is the tightrope you always walk between rewarding mechanics and rewarding play. On the one hand, with a standard group, you surely shouldn't address only play; I've had a DM who never asked anyone to roll a bluff check, an intimidate check, a diplomacy check, or a gather information check - and one of the players played a rogue that was all about these things. He felt crushed that the mechanical sacrifices he made were not rewarded, especially because he discussed his plans with the DM at session 0.

On the other hand, way too many people lean extremely heavily to the other side. Let's pretend for a second that the DC for spotting the markings was a 15, not a 5. That's still a bad design choice. Compare and contrast (and this is gonna be amateur hour, of course it should be done with way more polish in real play):

"You down the rocky corridor. You feel the slight wind blowing through your hair." *stops, rolls dice* "you also notice a red X on the floor." The obvious response is "ok, I carefully investigate the X." The alternative, in which they miss the X, is "as you step on a mark you haven't seen..." This just teaches them "always say you're looking for traps" which does not make interesting play.

On the other hand:

"You walk down the rocky corridor, and feel the slight wind blow through your hair. The corridor is barely illuminated, but you can still see the deep scratching into the stone of the walls, the red X-shapes on the floor, and the green streaks of moss in the ceiling of the cavern."

The players aren't driven to the Xs because you rolled an appropriately high spot check. If one of them decides to say "stop!" And investigate, they'll feel great about their attentiveness helping them avoid an issue. If they ignore your description and move on, and get hurt by the traps, the lesson isn't "always be looking for traps." The lesson is "listen, engage, be attentive". That attitude does make interesting play.

This simple example applies to so much of DMing. Be aware of the tightrope you're walking. Be mindful of how you design your adventures. Always ask "what makes this interesting/fun/exciting? What does this teach?"


My second point has to do with your expository description of the dungeon. If you feel confident about your style of narration, please ignore this part. This only applies of you're inexperienced and unsure about that stuff. (P.S. This also only applies if this game is done with your voice and face. Ignore if this is a text based game)

With that disclaimer out of the way: writing and oral narration are actually very different crafts. You're clearly a talented writer, and you paint the scene very well - but if you're going to be stammering your way through these long complex descriptions, or are going to methodically read them off a paper, you'll most likely lose your players' immersion. The human mind is excellent at creating settings, your job is to get it started - and that's much easier to do when you have a voice and a face.

In my experience, if you talk about the pregnant anticipating silence, your players will appreciate your prose on a technical level, but the image of the dungeon will actually be weaker than that created by something simpler, using your voice and your eyes. For example:

"You walk into the crumbling hall, and see a row of worn, headless statues before the stairs. They seem... sad. The air reeks of decay. Besides the occasional drip of water coming from down the way, you hear nothing. It's silent.

(At this point you pause, look at your players.)

"Dead. Silent.

"What do you do?"

Now, there are a lot of ways stiff like that could be done, but in general, stuff you can remember and describe without sounding like you're reciting something get better immersion than long, elaborate descriptions. Emphasizing using dramatic pauses, your eyes, and your voice, is more effective than having the perfect word.

Well, that's all I got. The dungeon seems fun and engaging, and a passionate DM is the single most important aspect of every campaign, so I consider your players very lucky.

Have fun, and good luck!

Fizban
2021-02-17, 04:37 AM
Sunrods expire after 6 hours, and beetle glands last for up to 6 days; assuming every gland lasts the maximum duration, that means the gland would last for 144 hours, or 24 times as long, so I lowballed the price from 48 to 30. On the other hand, looking back at it, they'd only be useful half the time (as that includes daylight hours), and the average duration would be half as long, so maybe 6x the cost would be more appropriate, or 12gp.
I'm fairly certain fire beetle lamps are priced somewhere, don't recall where though. Mostly just that the price makes no sense for PCs, and even for miners that need a flame-less light source the bugs would need to be farmed en-masse on site to be useful.

Would you say it'd be more appropriate with a visual clue? They're presumably going to open the door, so maybe something like: "When you open the door, a cloud of dust kicks up, and a shower of small stones and rubble spills out around your feet. You think you catch a flash of something small and sparkly in between the stones for a brief moment, but you can't be sure."
I'd just put the treasure with the treasure. Heck, if anyone showed too much interested in digging through rubble they have no reason to expect is hiding loot, I'd probably tell them straight out that I'm never going to hide anything important under a random pile of rubble. Ain't nobody got time for that.

So maybe just nix the 20/25 and leave those for gather information/roleplay questioning later, then?
Or if they investigate before going to the dungeon, or even retroactively if that's your thing.

The "sidebar" is more or less the gist; I didn't intend to call for the check unless one of them asked to make it. I don't expect any of the players to ask (as it's literally never come up in any of our previous campaigns, save for when a player wants to read a book for which they don't have the appropriate language), but I wanted to be prepared with something better than "Uh... it's illegible. Weird."
I thought it might be.

This hidden switch did give me a bit of trouble trying to plan out. I wanted to fulfill two conditions:


There is a reason no one else has found this in a well-traveled, well-explored dungeon
This is possible for a level 1 party to find


It was difficult to find a way to fulfill both. Pretty much exclusively level 1 adventurers visit this dungeon, so it isn't impossible that a DC20 search check (standard for a secret door) on a random square would go unnoticed, but I also wanted to give a reason for PCs to search that square, as otherwise they wouldn't find it without resorting to compulsive searching on every square. Maybe... a listen check from the beetle crawling on the wall to hear a little grinding sound as it moves over the button, a wisdom check to notice the missing statue (or intuit an odd feeling about it), then a visual description for the crack, and finally leave discovering it to the search check?
I don't see that illusion holding up any better really- either they're not thinking about how a "tourist attraction" dungeon still has secrets, or they do and realize there really shouldn't be anything there at all. Previous prospectors will have taken 20, dug through the rubble, tapped and smashed through all the walls, etc. The only thing that will stand up to scrutiny is a wall or door recently damaged or destroyed by some act of nature, giving the PCs the lucky shot at an untouched area. You could describe a secret door so well-constructed the PCs knows they wouldn't have found it, if not for the recent change- like that crack which suddenly stops that you used later.

Or, if you really want to try the tourist trap dungeon plot (I don't like them myself), then have a secret door where investigation shows it has been opened and closed, but there's still enemies and loot behind it, and investigation reveals clues that stuff has been disturbed and then put back.

I was trying to limit it to one piece of information per 5, so I selected what I thought would be the most relevant info for a level 1 party to know. I did notice that I do have the DCs wrong here though, as zombies have a minimum of 2HD, so it would be 12/17/22. Maybe give undead traits at 12, special qualities (DR and single actions only) at 17, and tactical information (no special attacks, relies on bee-lining for single melee attacks and HP sponge-ing to overcome targets) at 22?
And those are fine choices. You're just running into the problem of the knowledge skills as presented, where you get a huge pile of info that's always the same from creature types and traits, and then any actual information i hidden behind that and of unknown use (the published knowledge blocks are plenty inconsistent). Personally, I just ad hoc everything. Plenty of stuff is available with general checks at 10, 15, or 20, so stuff like dragons having breath weapons and basic DR knowledge aren't tied to HD ('cause if the smith sells cold iron and silver, it must be known widely enough to sell, basic undead are the easiest and most common minion, and actually literally everyone knows dragons breathe fire, you don't have to roll that). For a specific creature check, I'll ask if they have a particular concern (after hitting the basic identity and whatever minimum knowledge I would expect a success to grant), of if I should pick what I think is most relevant for any additional info.

In-universe, the beetles infested the dungeon and started eating the zombies that otherwise rose in the dungeon. Come to think of it, I should add some extra coffins and sarcophagi to the walls as a source for those undead... Regardless, the undead are a major draw for the dungeon, as fledgling adventurers want to test their skills and hone their blades, or what have you. The tourism that these adventurers bring is the lifeblood of this thorp, so the absence of the zombies was a major blow; the beetles just don't have the same romance to them as slaying undead creatures. As a result of this, the mayor was leading the undead into the crypt when he suffered some sort of accident; perhaps one of the zombies got a lucky charge in, or a beetle distracted him, or he stumbled over a trap. In any event, he suffered a wound, ducked into the room, and bled out (maybe he had the Diehard feat and used a standard action to close the door, or something similar).

I suppose I can just leave it as "that's just how some undead are in-setting" and let it rest.
That sounds more like the mystery of why the zombies don't fight back against the giant bugs. Even if undead normally ignore each other they'll still hit back if attacked, and something like Hide from Undead ends if you attack them.

I believe you mentioned the zombies rising from their tombs? If that were a physical trap where the lids were locked until triggered and the bugs nesting jammed the mechanisms while they burrowed in and ate the trapped zombies while they couldn't fight back, that could work, maybe even if it's just heavy lids that need to be removed for looting (aside from the "everything should have been killed and looted by now problem"). Though that would be more of a rat thing than a bettle thing, I think.

Zombies are normally CR2, so I was worried that one or two would be too challenging for a party, again considering how swingy level 1 combat can be. I figured reducing their movement speed would be a good way to reduce the likelihood of a TPK. I suppose I could have one of the zombies be "dead" and the other wounded instead? What do you think would be a more appropriate challenge for a level 1 party?
What zombies are you looking at? Standard 3.5 zombie template doesn't hit CR 2 until HD6, and you said halfling zombies.

I suppose dropping it to hardness 5 is probably for the best then. They only have 2hp each, after all.
Even 5 is likely only piercable by one, maybe two characters- a scoundrel-type with a flat 1d6 isn't breaking it, nor are most 1st level damage spells. It's a pretty sour note to end the dungeon on.

That's a fair point. I could toss out some masterwork Feycraft bucklers (0% arcane spell failure chance, at least), along with some gold and silver pieces as loot, and count the Feycraft as a +0wbl modifier. Alternatively, I suppose I could figure out some Feycraft weapons if they would be appropriate, just for the flavor of it, too, and waive or reduce the WBL value depending on if they keep or sell them for other stuff.
If you say they're worth a lot of money for crafstmanship even if they're not particularly useful to most people, that should get most of them sold while still allowing someone to claim one if they really want. The auto-finesse is the kind of thing some characters would love to have at 1st level, if there is one. Personally I bring the hammer down on sor/wiz AC hacks so I wouldn't supply those, and if the goal were to get them sold then such an item is counterproductive. You've got room for 4,000gp of loot before 2nd, even without going over, which is totally allowed.

Basically, if you're writing a module that's supposed to work for any party, feycraft gear iust isn't appropriate 1st adventure loot. If you've got a party rolled and a campaign in the works, then slipping someone an item a bit early is perfectly fine, as long as the other player's aren't going to get jealous over something that actually penalizes damage.

Doctor Despair
2021-02-17, 06:28 PM
To my eyes, you seem fine as far as combat balance goes. I do have 2 other aspects to discuss.

The first has been noted on, and it's the skill checks. There are a bit too many of them, and low DC checks are redundant, but that's not where the heart of the issue lays.

In my experience, one of the things people often miss about DMing is the tightrope you always walk between rewarding mechanics and rewarding play. On the one hand, with a standard group, you surely shouldn't address only play; I've had a DM who never asked anyone to roll a bluff check, an intimidate check, a diplomacy check, or a gather information check - and one of the players played a rogue that was all about these things. He felt crushed that the mechanical sacrifices he made were not rewarded, especially because he discussed his plans with the DM at session 0.

This was more or less the philosophy I was considering (and, it seems, over-considering) when looking for places to add skill checks. I wanted to be sure that, if a person invested in a skill, it felt rewarding to have done so. As you point out below, however, it does bog down gameplay unnecessarily.



On the other hand, way too many people lean extremely heavily to the other side. Let's pretend for a second that the DC for spotting the markings was a 15, not a 5. That's still a bad design choice. Compare and contrast (and this is gonna be amateur hour, of course it should be done with way more polish in real play):

"You down the rocky corridor. You feel the slight wind blowing through your hair." *stops, rolls dice* "you also notice a red X on the floor." The obvious response is "ok, I carefully investigate the X." The alternative, in which they miss the X, is "as you step on a mark you haven't seen..." This just teaches them "always say you're looking for traps" which does not make interesting play.

On the other hand:

"You walk down the rocky corridor, and feel the slight wind blow through your hair. The corridor is barely illuminated, but you can still see the deep scratching into the stone of the walls, the red X-shapes on the floor, and the green streaks of moss in the ceiling of the cavern."

The players aren't driven to the Xs because you rolled an appropriately high spot check. If one of them decides to say "stop!" And investigate, they'll feel great about their attentiveness helping them avoid an issue. If they ignore your description and move on, and get hurt by the traps, the lesson isn't "always be looking for traps." The lesson is "listen, engage, be attentive". That attitude does make interesting play.

This simple example applies to so much of DMing. Be aware of the tightrope you're walking. Be mindful of how you design your adventures. Always ask "what makes this interesting/fun/exciting? What does this teach?"

And that is a very fair point. Until a party rogue could be reasonably expected to take 10 on search checks to find traps, I wouldn't want the party to feel like every square needs to be searched extensively; that's a quick way to waste an adventuring day.



My second point has to do with your expository description of the dungeon. If you feel confident about your style of narration, please ignore this part. This only applies of you're inexperienced and unsure about that stuff. (P.S. This also only applies if this game is done with your voice and face. Ignore if this is a text based game)

With that disclaimer out of the way: writing and oral narration are actually very different crafts. You're clearly a talented writer, and you paint the scene very well - but if you're going to be stammering your way through these long complex descriptions, or are going to methodically read them off a paper, you'll most likely lose your players' immersion. The human mind is excellent at creating settings, your job is to get it started - and that's much easier to do when you have a voice and a face.

In my experience, if you talk about the pregnant anticipating silence, your players will appreciate your prose on a technical level, but the image of the dungeon will actually be weaker than that created by something simpler, using your voice and your eyes. For example:

"You walk into the crumbling hall, and see a row of worn, headless statues before the stairs. They seem... sad. The air reeks of decay. Besides the occasional drip of water coming from down the way, you hear nothing. It's silent.

(At this point you pause, look at your players.)

"Dead. Silent.

"What do you do?"

Now, there are a lot of ways stiff like that could be done, but in general, stuff you can remember and describe without sounding like you're reciting something get better immersion than long, elaborate descriptions. Emphasizing using dramatic pauses, your eyes, and your voice, is more effective than having the perfect word.

Well, that's all I got. The dungeon seems fun and engaging, and a passionate DM is the single most important aspect of every campaign, so I consider your players very lucky.

Have fun, and good luck!

The game will in all likelihood be online over discord, but point taken; sometimes less is more when it comes to description, and I don't want to lose them in the weeds, so to speak. I'll look for ways to trim it down for the final cut.


I'm fairly certain fire beetle lamps are priced somewhere, don't recall where though. Mostly just that the price makes no sense for PCs, and even for miners that need a flame-less light source the bugs would need to be farmed en-masse on site to be useful.

I struggled to find a listed price. The beetle shows up in the Monster Manual, but I couldn't find the lamp in the PHB or DMG, nor the PHBII or DMGII; you'd think it'd be in one of the companion books to the MM, right?

Rethinking the pricing (and assuming one isn't listed anywhere), 6x the cost for an average of 6x the duration may not be appropriate either, as things generally get cheaper when bought in bulk. Maybe a 9gp listed price in the shops, and iirc traders purchase things back at 50% most of the time, so ~5gp to sell them. That seems... lackluster. Maybe they can harvest a set of 2 from each beetle to make killing one a little more worthwhile.



I'd just put the treasure with the treasure. Heck, if anyone showed too much interested in digging through rubble they have no reason to expect is hiding loot, I'd probably tell them straight out that I'm never going to hide anything important under a random pile of rubble. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Just nix the crystal entirely? Fair enough. I was just trying to find a way to reward exploration, but as you've said, it would be frustrating for players to feel like they are required to search every pile of rubble they find for the rest of the campaign.



That sounds more like the mystery of why the zombies don't fight back against the giant bugs. Even if undead normally ignore each other they'll still hit back if attacked, and something like Hide from Undead ends if you attack them.

I believe you mentioned the zombies rising from their tombs? If that were a physical trap where the lids were locked until triggered and the bugs nesting jammed the mechanisms while they burrowed in and ate the trapped zombies while they couldn't fight back, that could work, maybe even if it's just heavy lids that need to be removed for looting (aside from the "everything should have been killed and looted by now problem"). Though that would be more of a rat thing than a bettle thing, I think.

...

What zombies are you looking at? Standard 3.5 zombie template doesn't hit CR 2 until HD6, and you said halfling zombies.

You know, somehow I was looking at HD the 12,000 times I looked at the template and not CR. In light of that, maybe it'd be fine to just reduce the amount of zombies and have some "dead" zombies being munched on by the beetles -- or maybe a regular zombie, one or two "dead" zombies, and a "crawler" with the aforementioned prone debuff. A zombie responds to the beetles when attacked, but the beetles just overwhelmed them; the other zombies remained inert, aggressive to humanoids. Probably not a good fight for an individual beetle to pick, but they're mindless, so tactics aren't necessarily their forte.



Even 5 is likely only piercable by one, maybe two characters- a scoundrel-type with a flat 1d6 isn't breaking it, nor are most 1st level damage spells. It's a pretty sour note to end the dungeon on.

Zombies have DR5; wouldn't they be subject to this same concern, barring the appropriate weapon? Granted hardness doesn't allow for the appropriate weapon to bypass it, but the constructs also have 11 less hp... although there are more of them, and don't have the negative special quality. Maybe drop it to 4, for an amalgamation of rusted metal and crumbling stone? The objects become trivial if the hardness drops down too low given the low hp, doesn't it?



If you say they're worth a lot of money for crafstmanship even if they're not particularly useful to most people, that should get most of them sold while still allowing someone to claim one if they really want. The auto-finesse is the kind of thing some characters would love to have at 1st level, if there is one. Personally I bring the hammer down on sor/wiz AC hacks so I wouldn't supply those, and if the goal were to get them sold then such an item is counterproductive. You've got room for 4,000gp of loot before 2nd, even without going over, which is totally allowed.

Basically, if you're writing a module that's supposed to work for any party, feycraft gear iust isn't appropriate 1st adventure loot. If you've got a party rolled and a campaign in the works, then slipping someone an item a bit early is perfectly fine, as long as the other player's aren't going to get jealous over something that actually penalizes damage.

I suppose it doesn't need to be Feycraft; it's just a shame because it's particularly fitting in-setting for the items at this site to be forged by fey or those influenced by fey. Maybe a masterwork cold iron weapon would be appropriate along that same vein; there will be fey with DR in a few levels, so the masterwork will be relevant immediately, and the cold iron will be relevant later. I can add some ancient runes, similar to those on the doors, to give it the same sort of flavor as a feycraft weapon anyway, but minus the weight alterations, extra cost, or bonus finesse (unless there's a mundane character who would benefit from the finesse).

Edit: I've revised the post in the OP! Thanks for all the feedback, friends! Please let me know if you notice anything else that could or should be improved upon! :smallsmile:

Fizban
2021-02-18, 03:01 AM
Zombies have DR5; wouldn't they be subject to this same concern, barring the appropriate weapon?
I have never seen a player who picked their own starting gear, who didn't include a dagger (and dumb as it is, while longswords are slashing only and short swords are piercing only, daggers get to do either).

Granted hardness doesn't allow for the appropriate weapon to bypass it, but the constructs also have 11 less hp... although there are more of them, and don't have the negative special quality. Maybe drop it to 4, for an amalgamation of rusted metal and crumbling stone? The objects become trivial if the hardness drops down too low given the low hp, doesn't it?
My gut wants to say 3, but that's minimum damage for the fighter and they do only have 2hp, so four is probably good. Though one thing you've overlooked is rolling hit points- time was, the big differentiator between random mooks was random hit points (and descriptions that even reflected those hit points). One or two can have more hp, and thus take multiple hits even beating hardness, while others have only one, the hardness making the difference much more noticable. That should make things a bit more interesting.

I suppose it doesn't need to be Feycraft; it's just a shame because it's particularly fitting in-setting for the items at this site to be forged by fey or those influenced by fey. Maybe a masterwork cold iron weapon would be appropriate along that same vein; there will be fey with DR in a few levels, so the masterwork will be relevant immediately, and the cold iron will be relevant later. I can add some ancient runes, similar to those on the doors, to give it the same sort of flavor as a feycraft weapon anyway, but minus the weight alterations, extra cost, or bonus finesse (unless there's a mundane character who would benefit from the finesse).
Normally I'd expect the opposite, that people dealing with fey should absolutely not have cold iron weapons because the fey would be offended, and the fey wouldn't have any. But then again, if the fey want to be able to kill each other effectively, they would invent or acquire cold iron weapons to do so.

Doctor Despair
2021-02-18, 12:58 PM
Normally I'd expect the opposite, that people dealing with fey should absolutely not have cold iron weapons because the fey would be offended, and the fey wouldn't have any. But then again, if the fey want to be able to kill each other effectively, they would invent or acquire cold iron weapons to do so.

In fact, Feycraft weapons are automatically cold iron, so I think the latter interpretation is what the writers were going with.

Fizban
2021-02-18, 06:22 PM
Huh. I never, ever noticed that. Not that it's normally a selling point since cold iron is the cheapest and feycraft is 1,500gp, and it also goes against the introduction where stating that templates can be combined with materials suggests there are no material restrictions. Well, that's something to note then: even getting a feycraft weapon up to a mere +1 is a 5,800gp total. Which for a character who's trying to avoid paying for Weapon Finesse, is probably a big chunk of change to not spend on damage boosts for offsetting their dex focus.