Animal Companions for Ranger in The Shaar

[Painted Cheetah]

Hi there,

Brand new here. I wanted to ask for help as I am a new player and my wife as well. We just started 3.5 after friends recommended it.

Anyways: My question deals with my character who is a Shaaran monk/ranger multi class character...and I had read about how they (rangers) later get an animal companion and I wanted to know at what level would it be possible for me to get a cheetah as an animal companion. I know for Druids that it is 4th level for them and I figured it would take much longer for me because of the multiclassing. Is that right? For regular rangers that stick to the path would they get the cheetah as an option at around 7th or 8th level?

I was also curious as to how you go about calculating the stats for the Cheetah as an animal companion because they aren't really any normal creature/animal correct?

Thanks for any help and warm regards.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Painted Cheetah
For regular rangers that stick to the path would they get the cheetah as an option at around 7th or 8th level?

A single-classed ranger would be able to take a cheetah companion at 8th level. As for the multiclassing, the feat Natural Bond (Complete Adventurer, p. 111) can help with that.

Also, if it hasn’t been recommended to you already, the feat Ascetic Hunter (CA p. 105) is designed for monk/ranger builds.

.

[Painted Cheetah]

Thanks for the heads up with those two feats. I will look into getting the complete adventurer.

I also wanted to know if I play using a quarter staff, how does fighting with both ends work? Is it like two weapon fighting? Also worth getting two weapon fighting?

[H_H_F_F]

With quarterstaff, you could choose to attack woth both sides using Two Weapon Fighting (which you could get from ranger fighting style) or use as a two-handed weapon and power attack. When attacking with each side, you count as using a light weapon in your secondary hand (so assuming twf feat, -2 for every attack).

Generally, fighting two handed with PA is more efficient if you don't have a source for extra damage, but you don't have to worry about efficiency if you don't want to.

[Painted Cheetah]

Thanks so much for the input and advice.

I was curious though, about two weapon fighting, pertaining this time to the body as a weapon. Does that mean you can two weapon fight as a monk with both arms or arm and leg or head and fist etc, etc?
I understand the previous info on the quarter staff and appreciate it. Kind of like it as a wayfarer walking stick sort of thing.

I also had a question about mounted archery, are there penalties on firing from horseback and where would I find that in the core rule books? I currently use a composite shortbow but would it be easier to use a longbow? Are there different rules because of the size?

I’m sorta having trouble deciding between the combat style for the character or if it is wise to pursue both the archery and two weapon fighting paths.

And lastly there is still a question I have about the feat mentioned above: natural bond. By adding a +3 level to my supposed Druid level as a ranger/monk multi class, does that mean that I would obtain the cheetah as a possible animal companion at eighth level like a standard ranger would? And where can I find information on how to calculate the stats for the cheetah as an animal companion? Core rule books?

Thanks again to everyone for the help. As a new player I am really loving role playing!

Cheers!

[H_H_F_F]

Thanks so much for the input and advice.

1. I was curious though, about two weapon fighting, pertaining this time to the body as a weapon. Does that mean you can two weapon fight as a monk with both arms or arm and leg or head and fist etc, etc?
I understand the previous info on the quarter staff and appreciate it. Kind of like it as a wayfarer walking stick sort of thing.

2. I also had a question about mounted archery, are there penalties on firing from horseback and where would I find that in the core rule books? I currently use a composite shortbow but would it be easier to use a longbow? Are there different rules because of the size?

3. I’m sorta having trouble deciding between the combat style for the character or if it is wise to pursue both the archery and two weapon fighting paths.

4. And lastly there is still a question I have about the feat mentioned above: natural bond. By adding a +3 level to my supposed Druid level as a ranger/monk multi class, does that mean that I would obtain the cheetah as a possible animal companion at eighth level like a standard ranger would? And where can I find information on how to calculate the stats for the cheetah as an animal companion? Core rule books?

Thanks again to everyone for the help. As a new player I am really loving role playing!

Cheers!

So:

1. That's actually a pretty contested subject, to my knowledge. The monk unarmed strike feature explains that "a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk fighting unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Str bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes."

I've always read this as giving the monk an advantage: allowing for full Str while twfing. Others have seen it as disallowing the monk from using TWF. Check with your DM.

2. Page 157 of the English PHB deals with mounted combat, including mounted archery. You may only use a shortbow when shooting from a mount's back. There is also a feat called mounted archery in the PHB which helps mitigate some of the disadvantages.

3. I wouldn't pursue both, as both are very feat intensive and not super strong - but again, you have no obligation to be efficient. If that's what you wanna do, do it.

4. You would need druid level 4th to get a cheetah. You need to be able to have an animal companion (ranger level 4) in order to take the feat. So, as soon as you have the feat, you'll qualify. If you go Ranger1/monk 2/ ranger +3, for example, you could get a cheetah at level 6. If, however, you alternate between ranger and monk every level, you'll only get an animal companion at 7 or 8, so you'll only be able to take the feat at 9. It's all about how you structure your multiclassing.

[RNightstalker]

So:

1. That's actually a pretty contested subject, to my knowledge. The monk unarmed strike feature explains that "a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk fighting unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Str bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes."

I've always read this as giving the monk an advantage: allowing for full Str while twfing. Others have seen it as disallowing the monk from using TWF. Check with your DM.


I agree that the monk would have an advantage from that, and would be able to use unarmed strikes for TWF.

[NotInventedHere]

And where can I find information on how to calculate the stats for the cheetah as an animal companion? Core rule books?

Just to answer this bit, since I don't think anyone has specifically pointed you to it: the cheetah is in the Monster Manual, in the Animals section at the back. Page 271. The Players Handbook will tell you what adjustments to make to those stats for it being an animal companion - there's a big sidebar in the Druid section, page 36.

[H_H_F_F]

Just to answer this bit, since I don't think anyone has specifically pointed you to it: the cheetah is in the Monster Manual, in the Animals section at the back. Page 271. The Players Handbook will tell you what adjustments to make to those stats for it being an animal companion - there's a big sidebar in the Druid section, page 36.

Adding on to this: if you don't know what to do when increasing HD (when the time comes) it's very much like leveling. You get more feats at every 3rd HD, another skill point, BaB, saves, etc. You can see exactly how that works for animals in the "improving monsters" part of the monster manual, page 290 in English.

[Painted Cheetah]

Haha wow, I was about to come here to ask about that.

I was able to find the Cheetah at the end of the monster manual and the info in the druid section of the players handbook. Thanks for helping with all of these questions. If I did the suggestions as mentioned above and got natural bond and the cheetah at around 6th level: would the cheetah lower my druid level because it is a higher tiered animal companion?

When I go to calculate the cheetah's abilities and scores would it be based on my druid level equivalent? Thats why I was asking about it lowering my "level" in terms of where it starts stat wise.

Appreciate all the help and input! :smallsmile:

[H_H_F_F]

Haha wow, I was about to come here to ask about that.

I was able to find the Cheetah at the end of the monster manual and the info in the druid section of the players handbook. Thanks for helping with all of these questions. If I did the suggestions as mentioned above and got natural bond and the cheetah at around 6th level: would the cheetah lower my druid level because it is a higher tiered animal companion?

When I go to calculate the cheetah's abilities and scores would it be based on my druid level equivalent? Thats why I was asking about it lowering my "level" in terms of where it starts stat wise.

Appreciate all the help and input! :smallsmile:

If you the steps I previously outlined, you'll be equivalent to a 5th level druid at level 6, which means you won't adjust your cheetah: 5-3=2. You'll get to upgrade it 2 ranger levels later, when your druid level reaches 6, so your druid level for your cheetah reaches 3.

If you're expecting your cheetah to be very useful, you'll probably be disappointed. I'm not saying this to turn you off of the idea; if you'll feel great by having a cheetah, than getting a cheetah is what you should do. You just need to be aware that this path is not one where you or your animal will be super powerful.

Still, if you want to play a ranger/monk with a cheetah, and keep a relatively simple build, the best path IMO is ranger 1/monk 2/ ranger +x. Get ascetic hunter at level 3, natural bond at level 6

[Painted Cheetah]

Yes, I figured I wouldn't end up very powerful. Thanks a million for answering my question so quickly. I chose the cheetah and this character concept because it was an adventure-story-comic character I made up as a kid. I wanted to use the cheetah more as a scout and aid in hunting more than anything.

My wife and I are more interested in the story components of the roleplaying than the stat building domination that seems common. I guess we are going for characters we can flesh out to feel more real than video game logic style smash it and kill it with fire characters.

Once again, we deeply appreciate all the input and aid!

[Painted Cheetah]

Hey again, I had another question...

How do monks go about attacking foes that require a magic quality like the +1, etc.
Does that mean the monks will need a weapon to utilize to injure them or are their hands and feet (body) really not qualify to enchant with these magical bonuses?

Like would your hands for example become giant fireballs or sizzling energy forces? Or is it more like theoretical magical energy like how they describe 'ki'
Is that like magic fang? Could you just enchant your body permanently with spells?

What are Zen Monks? I saw someone here on the forums mention them in context of archery or something. I apologize that I am not that wise to the ways of the game yet.
Currently only possess the Forgotten Realms Campaign book, The Shining South, Silver Marches, and the three core 3.5 books.

Are animal companions also eligible to obtain permanent spell enhancements that make them faster or bigger or stronger etc?

Just curious :biggrin:

[H_H_F_F]

You can use permanency on (greater/normal) magic fang, which can enhance both unarmed strikes and your cheetah's bite attack. It should be noted that 4 levels of monk make your unarmed strikes count as magical for piercing through DR - but no, you can't normally enchant your unarmed strike (though there are ways to do it, but they'll make you stray away from your chassis). There are, however, magic items that enhance them in different ways.

I don't know of a Zen monk, but it sounds to me like you're speaking about the feat Zen archery, which allows you to use your wisdom for ranged attack instead of your dexterity. I wouldn't recommend taking it unless your Wis is significantly better than your Dex.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Painted Cheetah
What are Zen Monks? I saw someone here on the forums mention them in context of archery or something.

Pathfinder also has the Zen Archer (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo-monk-archetypes/zen-archer/) monk archetype, which allows a monk to specialize in archery. That may be what you saw mentioned.

[Fouredged Sword]

The quarterstaff is a really cool weapon in 3.5 that has some really unique properties that you can use to your advantage. I want to walk you through some options that will make your game a lot more fun potentially.

A quarterstaff is the only weapon in 3.5 that can be wielded as if it was a two handed weapon, a one handed weapon, a light weapon, or a double ended weapon.

You can grip it with both hands and wield it as a two handed weapon to get 1.5x str to damage.
You can wield it with one hand and treat it as a one handed weapon to get 1x str to damage.
You can wield it with one hand and treat it as a light weapon and get .5x str to damage, but the advantages of a light weapon.
You can wield it as a double weapon as if it was a one handed and light weapon.

And then on top of all that you can get an elvencraft longbow instead of a plain quarterstaff and it's a longbow that functions as a quarterstaff as well as being a longbow.

It is the only weapon that can do all of these things. Take advantage of that.

So, my advice is to avoid the known traps.

Do not flurry of blows. Do not use two weapon fighting.

A better alternative to those is to focus on ranged attacks and single decisive melee attacks.

The players handbook 2 offers a monk ACF that is taken at 1st level and replaced flurry of blows. It allows you to take a full round action to make a single attack that takes a -2 to hit but deals double damage.

That's cool in of itself, but the SRD has another monk ACF that lets you take a different set of feats for the monk class. The overwhelming assault set lets you get power attack. This is cool, because remember you can wield a quarterstaff as a two handed weapon. This means that you can trade -1 to hit for +2 damage. If you do this during a decisive strike you double that again to 4 damage per extra -1 to hit you take past the initial -2 taken to double your damage.

That's great, but what do you do with ranger now that you are not two weapon fighting?

Well, you have two options. First, you can two weapon fight anyway. You have two weapons available to you, a quarterstaff wielded in both hands as a two handed weapon (1.5x str, double damage bonus from power attack) and an unarmed strike you can use to make iterative attacks, but this is not the ideal. Instead use the ranger feats to give you ranged options.

Bows are nice because you end up getting your full strength applied to the damage each attack using a compound bow rather than the half strength you would get wielding a light weapon. This means it's frequently better to shoot a bow than attack in melee with a light weapon. What more point blank shot counters some of the penalty for rapidshot and most battles take place within that range.

Your ideal class mix is likely monk 2 / ranger 18 to maximize your base attack bonus.