Find Steed Combos for a Wizard

[Aaedimus]

Got a paladin (soon to be lvl 13), and a ring of spell storing. Gives everyone access to their own find steed...

But a Wizard has that spell list... and the Find Steed has that awesome spell sharing combo...
So, Tenser's Transformation seems as if it's the best combo for now... but can you think of any other really interesting or fun combos with this?

[CheddarChampion]

Shapechange would work well (at level 17+).

It seems like it would be more tolerable to a DM than using True Polymorph to build an army.

[Eldariel]

Tenser's is pretty good for just hitting things, though note the literal language: "Spells with that targets only you..." so by RAW it needs the Target-line and thus e.g. Tenser's isn't available. If Tenser's is okay by the DM, there's also Mirror Image, Blink, etc. from the Wizard non-Concentration list. Polymorph can of course be hilarious.

[diplomancer]

Tenser's is pretty good for just hitting things, though note the literal language: "Spells with that targets only you..." so by RAW it needs the Target-line and thus e.g. Tenser's isn't available. If Tenser's is okay by the DM, there's also Mirror Image, Blink, etc. from the Wizard non-Concentration list. Polymorph can of course be hilarious.

What do you mean by "target-line"? From what I understand, ALL these spells would work (Polymorph being one of the worst choices, since your mount would have a maximum CR of 2, and you'd be going from a 13th level Wizard to a CR8 beast, which does not look like a good trade)

Edit mini-rant: rereading just now the "Range" session of the Spellcasting Rules, I now affirm that Jeremy Crawford's ruling that the smite spells are not doubled by Find (Greater) Steed is WRONG. The Very first line of the Range rules states "The target of a spell must be within a spell's range". It later qualifies that statement for area of effect spells that originate from you, but if it's NOT an AoE there is no such qualification. If "the target of a spell must be within a spell's range" ALL non-AoE spells with a Range of Self must, necessarily target only the caster. There are also spells that could target others (like haste), but if the caster targets himself, and only himself, the spell is doubled for the steed. If Crawford believes this is unbalanced, fine, he's the designer, let him go and Errata all the smite spells, like they errataed GFB and BB.

The rules of spellcasting are perfectly clear and unambiguous; designers made some spells which allow for overpowered combinations and panicked, creating plenty of special pleading rulings to nerf those combinations. It's lazy -and I'd even say, dishonest- design.

Incidentally- I've played a Paladin from 5th to 20th level. I think I cast Wrathful smite a few times, and no other Smite spells at all. They being Concentration is a considerable cost, and I normally had a better use for it. Allowing double-casting with the Steed would at least make them more interesting choices.

[Valmark]

Got a paladin (soon to be lvl 13), and a ring of spell storing. Gives everyone access to their own find steed...

But a Wizard has that spell list... and the Find Steed has that awesome spell sharing combo...
So, Tenser's Transformation seems as if it's the best combo for now... but can you think of any other really interesting or fun combos with this?
Tenser's honestly bad on the basis that you stop being a wizard for the time to become a relatively lousy martial. Sure, you get a lot of bonus damage and extra attack, but you also can't cast spells and are unlikely to have good accuracy. How many situations can you resolve by turning into two martials with bad accuracy with your 6th level slot?

Imo all the non-Concentration buffs like Eldariel said are going to be good- especially MI because, unless you are sharing Mage Armor, the Steed's AC is likely equivalent to the MI's AC so you have no diminishing returns.

Also consider a feat or a dip to get Armor of Agathys to really punish who targets your Steed together with Fire Shield.

Tenser's is pretty good for just hitting things, though note the literal language: "Spells with that targets only you..." so by RAW it needs the Target-line and thus e.g. Tenser's isn't available. If Tenser's is okay by the DM, there's also Mirror Image, Blink, etc. from the Wizard non-Concentration list. Polymorph can of course be hilarious.
Tenser's does target only you though.



Incidentally- I've played a Paladin from 5th to 20th level. I think I cast Wrathful smite a few times, and no other Smite spells at all. They being Concentration is a considerable cost, and I normally had a better use for it. Allowing double-casting with the Steed would at least make them more interesting choices.

Doesn't help that most Smite spells deal less damage then a Divine Smite with the same slot- honorable mention to Banishing Smite which has the same average damage of the equivalent Divine Smite (actually I think it's very slightly higher but I could be wrong).

[Eldariel]

Tenser's does target only you though.

Hm? Tenser's says the following:
"Level: 6
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a few hairs from a bull)
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes"

It doesn't have a Target-line (and thus, far as I can tell, a target) at all.

[Valmark]

Hm? Tenser's says the following:
"Level: 6
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a few hairs from a bull)
Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes"

It doesn't have a Target-line (and thus, far as I can tell, a target) at all.

I think you might be confusing games/editions- no spell in 5e has a Target-line in the way you seem to be talking about it.

[diplomancer]

Tenser's honestly bad on the basis that you stop being a wizard for the time to become a relatively lousy martial. Sure, you get a lot of bonus damage and extra attack, but you also can't cast spells and are unlikely to have good accuracy. How many situations can you resolve by turning into two martials with bad accuracy with your 6th level slot?


Advantage (which Tenser gives you) helps a lot with accuracy; you are probably MORE accurate than the martials unless they have another source of advantage, as you will most likely have at least a +2, quite likely a +3, to your Dex; if you are able to also attack with a bonus action (and it's as simple as just TWF, with daggers if necessary, with short swords if you are an elf) we are talking easily up to 6 attacks combined from you and your Steed (with 2d12 force damage each). If you are completely shameless, get a Rhino and enjoy 2 attacks with 4d8+2d12+5. If your DM says no to the insanity of two charge attacks with stomp damage (though it IS RAW, it's silly), get a Saber Tooth Tiger, still good odds of having 3 attacks. Nothing "bad" about that, you are almost certainly outdamaging the martials. Is it worth it to stop being a Wizard for the battle? It will depend on what you are facing.


I think you might be confusing games/editions- no spell in 5e has a Target-line in the way you seem to be talking about it.
Yep, no target line in 5e. And the range of self means that the caster is actually the only possible valid target, as the target MUST be in range.

[Eldariel]

I think you might be confusing games/editions- no spell in 5e has a Target-line in the way you seem to be talking about it.

That must be it, I somehow mentally added it in there for all those targeting spells without it ever being there. That's fair enough then, I suppose under the "plain English rules", self is unequivocally the target of the spell.

[Valmark]

That must be it, I somehow mentally added it in there for all those targeting spells without it ever being there. That's fair enough then, I suppose under the "plain English rules", self is unequivocally the target of the spell.

Yes, it is as long as you don't listen to JC. 5e would have benefitted greatly by having such a line, honestly.