[3.5] Decent 5 level Martial PrCs

[Thurbane]

So, just a general query.

What are some decent 5-level PrCs designed for martials. Specifically looking at 5 level PrCs, not "take 5 level of base class X"' or "take 5 levels of this 10 level PrC".

Ideally full BAB, and not requiring any casting or supernatural abilities to enter. The easier the entry reqs, the better.

Not for any particular build, just weighing up some options for potential future NPC and PC builds.

Cheers - T

[Zaq]

Fascinating. This is a rarer category than I would have expected.

Avenging executioner (Complete Scoundrel) isn't phenomenal, but it's not bad as long as you're not screwed over by immunities (immunity to fear and/or immunity to precision damage puts a significant cramp in your style). Mid BAB, but it's more rogue than fighter, in general.

Over in the monk's quadrant, I freely admit that I've never seen it put into an actual build, but I feel like monk of the enabled hand (Dragon Compendium) at least looks better than your typical monk PrC. That doesn't necessarily mean it's actually good, but I very much like the level 3 ability (free AoO whenever you get hit in melee, and unlike Karmic Strike or Robilar's Gambit, it doesn't tank your defenses), and the use-limited abilities are cute until you run out of them.

I'm kind of coming up empty-handed for full BAB ones. I'm not gonna say they don't exist, but I'm not thinking of too many right offhand.

[smasher0404]

Looking through the old Crystal Keep documents, there are 27 prestige classes that have full BAB and are 5 levels long:


Battlesmith (Races of Stone)
Battle Howler of Gruumsh (Dragon 311)
Branch Dancer (Dragon 310)
Citadel Elite (Sharn)
Cragtop Archer (Races of Stone)
Dark Hunter (Complete Warrior)
Deadgrim (Magic of Eberron)
Divine Champion (Player's Guide to Faerun)
Eldeen Ranger (Eberron Campaign Setting)
Invisible Blade (Complete Warrior)
Master Thrower (Complete Warrior)
Master of the Unseen Hand (Complete Warrior)
Memory Smith (Dragon 311)
Menacing Brute (Races of Destiny)
Mindspy (Complete Warrior)
Nature's Warrior (Complete Warrior)
Occult Slayer (Complete Warrior)
Outcast Champion (Races of Destiny)
Purple Dragon Knight (Complete Warrior)
Reachrunner (Races of Eberron)
Reaping Mauler (Complete Warrior)
Spellcarved Soldier (Races of Eberron)
Streetfighter (Complete Adventurer)
Sworn Slayer (Dragon 324)
Tempest (Complete Adventurer)
Thayan Knight (Complete Warrior)
Warforged Juggernaut (Eberron Campaign Setting)


I know off-hand that this list is also missing Abjurant Champion (Complete Mage).

Also of note would be Warshaper from Complete Warrior (Not full BAB, but is martially inclined, and focused on natural attacks) and Half-Orc Paragon from Unearthed Arcana (only 3 levels long, but gives a mean of getting Rage as a Lawful creature).

[Fizban]

Depending on what you define as decent of course. I've always liked the look of Knight of the Pearl and Leviathan Hunter.

The former offends me less than divine feats and the harm+heal burst is pretty good, but obviously nothing scales out of it. The class as a very specific set of things it wants to do, and does them. If it continued special mount progression, there would be little reason not to take it in a game with water.

Leviathan Hunter is again very focused, but the up to +4 AC and all saves and constant up to +2d6 that it grants, are obviously much more reliable and remain significant at any level since they stack. Assuming you fight huge or larger monsters of the appropriate types in melee, which depends heavily on how your DM uses and how big their bruisers are. Clever Wresting is worse than Close-Quarters Combat, but Clever Wresting is in Stormwrack so that's what they get- no reason you can't just have both for extra safety though. Should probably have vermin on the allowed list, 'cause giant enemy crabs and whatnot.

[Silva Stormrage]

Revenant Blade was always an interesting one to me. Requires you to be an elf but if its for an NPC you can always wave racial requirements. No real reason another race couldn't be well trained in the use of a double scimitar.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Thurbane
Ideally full BAB, and not requiring any casting or supernatural abilities to enter. The easier the entry reqs, the better.

Cyran Avenger is full BAB and extremely easy to enter. It advances spellcasting but doesn’t require it for entry.


Originally Posted by Fizban
The former offends me less than divine feats….

Can’t quite work this out. What do you mean here?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

How about six levels? Sanctified Mind in LoM is pretty decent, and gives 5/6 divine casting or manifesting progression.

Bloodclaw Master, Deepstone Sentinel, and Master of Nine in ToB are all 3/4 BAB, but definitely martial.

[Particle_Man]

Dragon Devotee gives medium BAB but also stat boosts including +2 str (also +2 cha and +2 con, also natural armour). Notably, it also gives a few levels of sorcerer but allows you to cast 1st level sorcerer spells while in armour which is . . . nice. And hey, wands and staff access!

[Elves]

Shou disciple works for a number of monk-based builds that otherwise struggle to get 16 BAB and often need Dodge and/or WF for something else anyway.

[Saintheart]

3 levels rather than 5, but Exotic Weapon Master isn't at all bad for exotic weapon wielders, or at least makes up for some of the shortfalls of using specific ones.

[Thurbane]

Some quite interesting suggestions here, thank you.

And yes, I'm willing to look at other PrCs with less than 10 levels, even if they aren't 5-level: List of PrCs with "nonstandard" levels (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?226460)

[Rebel7284]

Definitely Abjurant Champion is at the top since it
a) Full BAB and definitely Martial
b) Progresses Casting 5/5 which helps any character

[The Viscount]

I'm a fan of Dread Commando from Miniatures Handbook.

A bit restrictive to enter, but solid benefits.
Full BA
Full Sudden strike
+5 to team initiative
Hide and MS travelling at speed

It may not be thrilling, but it's good.

[liquidformat]

Frostrager is a fun one, so is pre-errata'ed Weretouched master, Eldeen Ranger isn't super powerful but it fits the build, Bloodclaw Master is pretty easy to enter, and deepstone sentinel is decent

[Fizban]

Can’t quite work this out. What do you mean here?
One of the Knight of the Pearl's main abilities is spending turn attempts to add some damage to their next attack, which I would expect to immediately garner responses of "you can already do that with Divine feats, and better too!", but the very concept of most Divine feats offend me ("trading" what is meant to be a fluffy/fallback/weak foes only feature, for far more powerful stacking and scaling power increases of varying stripes). This is a PrC ability, with stated rather than open scaling, and lasts for one hit rather than multiplying. In short, it's an ability that can actually be measured.

[Anthrowhale]

The Knight of the Pearl's capstone ability (turn undead applies to evil water creatures) seems potentially amazing in an underwater campaign with some basic TU optimization. Still, this requires a supernatural ability to enter.

Master Thrower is a good 5-level full-BAB, no supernatural/spell reqs class. The capstone (weak spot) allows you to make ranged touch attacks with thrown weapons, which is fantastic at high levels where monsters have super-AC via natural armor. Use Power Throw to crank your damage/hit up, and rapid shot/TWF/Palm Throw to crank up your attacks/round. The drawbacks here are the need for a substantial feat investment and abilities working better the smaller you are, opposite to most combat forms.

Exotic Weapon Master is also a good 3-level full-BAB, no su/spell reqs class. Often, you dip it for a level or two rather than all 3 to pick up the special abilities you want. Stunning Blow, Uncanny Blow, Close-quarters ranged combat, and Trip Attack all look good for some builds.

[Zarvistic]

Witch Slayer has some really nice abilities and you can enter it pretty easy.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Not full BAB, but it's hard to top entering Warshaper as a Changeling or Shifter.

Speaking of Shifters, Weretouched Master is fantastic for 3-4 levels even after the errata, and gold for all 5 levels pre-errata. Also not full BAB, but gives you more than enough to make up for it.

Avenging Executioner is good on a martial fear build.

Master Thrower is great for a throwing weapon build, natch. Especially if you want to spam; Palm Throw is second to none for putting small weapons into the air.

[Saintheart]

For completeness - Menacing Brute from RoD, main use is for fear-based martial builds. 5 levels, full BAB, have to be a Half-Orc but the adaptation guidelines suggest that it can be easily switched to suit Zhentarim fighters in particular.

[Morof Stonehands]

Not Full BAB but the 4 level Jaunter PrC from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits is rather easy to get into for NPCs, and IMO pretty cool.

[high speed]

fist of the forest maybe? (complete champion) also ordained champion and sanctified one (same)

[Zombimode]

I like Thayan Knight, especially if there is no other source of morale on attack and damage.
The bonuses to the saves are good and relevant.

The Last Stand ability is highly situational, sadly (making it swift action or even better: immediate action would make it awesome, though!).

[Nifft]

Horizon Walker is a nice 6-level PrC, albeit with a (Su) capstone.

More serious answer: Paragnostic Initiate, the Mage-Squire PrC with good BAB and skill points.

[remetagross]

Revenant Blade is fluffy and reasonably powerful. So is Invisible Blade.

Fist of the Forest is only 3 levels long, but as @high speed has mentioned, is choke full of good stuff.

Occult slayer is neat.