Darksun Templars

[Naanomi]

Warlock subclass (new, or adaptation of Hexblade?)

Paladin Oath (new, or adaption of Conqueror/Vengeance/Crown?)

One of each option?

Don’t worry too much about it until we have a Psion?

[thoroughlyS]

After some light googling, I think Hexblade or Cleric is your best bet. Hexblade is the 4E approach, Cleric is the v3.5 approach.

[MaxWilson]

Warlock subclass (new, or adaptation of Hexblade?)

Paladin Oath (new, or adaption of Conqueror/Vengeance/Crown?)

One of each option?

Don’t worry too much about it until we have a Psion?

Don't worry about it until you at least have Athasian clerics, which aren't using the PHB Cleric list at all. Then just give templars access to the union of all four elemental Cleric lists.

They aren't warlocks in any way. They're priests.

[Naanomi]

They are granted powers by association with strong, non-God entities... seems pretty ‘warlock’ in fluff to me

Elemental clerics can refluff several existing domains but... a few will need new ones (other setting wouldn’t mind an Earth or Water domain anyways for example)

[Catullus64]

I think Paladin Oath makes the most sense from a game design perspective, since Paladin is the class that otherwise gets cut the most out of Dark Sun; making a niche for the class in the Templars seems a sensible enough way to address that. But I wouldn't mind seeing them as a Warlock subclass.

That said, you're right in pointing out that Templars are far from the biggest roadblock to a 5th edition Dark Sun setting. More Psionic options, Bards, Clerics, and Defiling all seem like much bigger challenges.

[MaxWilson]

They are granted powers by association with strong, non-God entities... seems pretty ‘warlock’ in fluff to me

Elemental clerics can refluff several existing domains but... a few will need new ones (other setting wouldn’t mind an Earth or Water domain anyways for example)

Elementary clerics also get power from strong, non-god entities.

5E doesn't require clerics to get their power from gods, so it's fine to make them clerics/priests from that angle, but the 5e cleric list is wholly inappropriate for Athasian elemental clerics. E.g. They're not supposed to have stuff like Raise Dead. For that kind of magic you need to go to the Templars.

[Naanomi]

Elementary clerics also get power from strong, non-god entities..
If I recall, they were not entities... just odd idiosyncratic inner-planar portals... which may make them ‘sorcerers’ not clerics from a stricter fluff perspective?

Regardless, even if it isn’t via the traditional Templar, the Sorcerer Kings (and Rajaat) seem like warlock-patron-style entities

[MaxWilson]

If I recall, they were not entities... just odd idiosyncratic inner-planar portals... which may make them ‘sorcerers’ not clerics from a stricter fluff perspective?

Regardless, even if it isn’t via the traditional Templar, the Sorcerer Kings (and Rajaat) seem like warlock-patron-style entities

IIRC Earth, Air, Fire, Water has it as elemental princes, but it doesn't matter because 5E also has clerics receiving power from non-entities as well. There's no hard and fast line between clerics, warlocks, and sorcerers in 5E, at least in terms of power source, but templars are indisputably priests and not just pact-makers. They teach a religion to the people of the city-states. In fact they're arguably the most authentic non-Christian priests in D&D lore, certainly more authentic than the fantasy henotheists we usually see.

Templars care about keeping people in line and worshipping their sorcerer king, and reaping the benefits to themselves that come from having a happy god-king with a prosperous kingdom. It's a cynical religion but it's definitely a religion.

[SharkForce]

I would probably use paladins. nothing from 5e is going to *perfectly* fit a 2e templar, but they only really got good at spellcasting at very high levels back in the day; at low levels, they were considerably worse. in fact, if my memory is correct then level 1 templar didn't even have any spells at all. that said, I could see it as some templars being clerics and some being paladins (or eventually being a multiclass of the two).

in fact, when I heard about crown oath paladins, templars were the first thing I thought of where it actually made sense to me for that to even be a thing.

(also, let's not be silly... there's no way the dev team are re-writing clerics to make elemental clerics closely resemble the 2nd ed version... they'll grab whatever they think is the closest fit and run with that, probably while pretending there are no actual differences whatsoever).

[Naanomi]

IIRC Earth, Air, Fire, Water has it as elemental princes,
There are powerful elementals, including the four elemental gods that straddle the line... but none were a factor in Athasian elemental cleric practices (let alone in the other paraelemental traditions)

People may be correct that ‘Templar’ is a background with a side note about Paladins, Clerics, and (I still feel) Warlocks being best suited for it

[MaxWilson]

There are powerful elementals, including the four elemental gods that straddle the line... but none were a factor in Athasian elemental cleric practices (let alone in the other paraelemental traditions)

I'm at home now so I found the Earth, Air, Fire, Water quotes for you. (EAFW is the main priest accessory for the original Dark Sun campaign. As such I believe it carries some historical weight, although not as much weight as the original boxed set.)

Earth, Air, Fire, Water page 3:

The Priest Class

The clerics and druids who inhabit the wastes of Athas are very different from those of a standard AD&D® campaign. They do not pray to patron deities, for they have no deities. Priests beneath the dark sun pledge themselves to the very powers that dwell on the elemental planes.

Like the Athasian deserts, the elemental powers are neither benevolent nor malevolent, caring only that their natural forms are preserved in the material world. This is the source of their power, and the impending ecological collapse in this realm has created an unusual and dynamic power struggle on the inner planes of the elementals. The priests of Athas are the pawns of this titanic struggle.

Resisting the efforts of the clerics and druids are the templars. The templars are men and women who have become the minions of the sorcerer-kings. They enforce the dictates of those willful tyrants with fanatical fervor in exchange for small scraps of personal power. The kings and queens they serve are the greatest wizards Athas has ever known.

Tales of the ancient priest class are woven into the fabric of life on Athas—tales of power and greed, and wanton, wasteful destruction.


Then there's talk of all the ways the elemental planes have suffered in The Wasting, e.g. Air is lethargic, Fire is afraid to consume what fuel is left for fear of depleting those reserves forever.

EAFW p 6-7

Unfortunately, the remote and chaotic elementals realized Athas's impending doom far too late. Most sages agree that the planet's spiraling decline has become irreversible.

Regardless, these beings have deigned to forge a pact of Earth, of Air, of Fire, of Water, with a few selected beings of the Prime Material Plane. Through these few clerics and druids, the elemental powers hope to replenish the decaying planet of Athas and return to the ancient, carefree days of power.

The Pact
The pacts forged by the elemental beings with the mortals who serve them are strange and terrible contracts. The elementals demand nothing less than the entire lives of the clerics, spent in total service and obedience to the planner entities. In exchange, the elementals bestow what powers they have to give upon their priests. Some are great, some weak, but all of them demand the clerics' total commitment.

The pact is "signed" during the priest-candidate's initiation, if he or she succeeds—failure means insanity, death, and occasionally even worse fates. Violations of the various pacts are dealt with quickly and without pity.

The clerics and druids who do the elementals' bidding are a strange and varied lot Some teach crop rotation in order to protect and restore the earth of the harsh planet. Others command the power of flame for little more than vengeance's sake. Whatever their motivations, each priest is bound and sworn to preserve his or her patron element in the physical world—the Prime Material Plane. Few ever renounce the solemn agreement—to forsake the Pact is to incur the wrath of beings who possess the raw power of the elements.

But even the great power of these elementals is limited and dwindling, like sand draining through an hourglass, and so they grant this boon—this burden—to a very few. Because of this, priests are unable to recruit vast numbers of followers, nor are there mighty cathedrals or lonely monasteries dedicated to the worship of their lords. Only through the subtle lessons taught by campfire tales and in isolated, secret shrines can the desperate message of preservation survive in the cold shadow cast by the sorcerer-kings.

Sometimes hunted, often ignored, rarely appreciated, these few are Athas's last hope. And like the sands of the earth, they strive to slip through the dealers' iron fingers and work the transformation of Athas through their preserving magic ... or die in the attempt

...Some have heard the rambling tales of the desert madman who claims that each of the elemental planes was once ruled by individual, powerful entities. Most clerics now believe that even if this was true, those sovereign beings are long since dead.

There are still beings of enormous strength living in the inner planes that are home to the elementals. Those who commune with them say they complain incessantly about the dryness of the earth, the scarcity of cool breezes, and roar louder than thunder when defiling magic begins to eat at their souls like leprosy.

Other, smaller spirits flit around these giant beings like hungry rasclinn, begging for any morsel their masters might toss them. For the last few centuries, the scraps have been few and far between.

When clerics or druids tap their patron plane for assistance, or to recharge spells, they have no idea which entity will answer the call. Rarely do the spirits reveal their identities, but somehow the dwellers of the planes always seem to know whether a cleric or druid has fulfilled his Pact, and they grant or deny him access accordingly.

...Rumors have drifted about the hot plains of Athas for thousands of years. They say there once were gods other than the elementals. The clerics, druids, and templars that now inhabit the wastes refute this. They say that only primitive shamans believe their patrons are actually gods.


So, there aren't any elemental gods at all (in the original Dark Sun at least), but there are powerful elementals, and they are indeed involved in granting power to clerics when those clerics reach out to e.g. recharge spells.

[Naanomi]

Good find, been a while since I read that book (last time I did Darksun was 3.5 athas.org semi-official stuff ). I remember druids being pretty pact-y with nature spirits, but not clerics so much. I stand corrected.