metamagic + shalantha's delicate disk, and long casting time + temp cl

[newguydude1]

q1
shalantha's delicate disk only lets you store up 5th level spells.
if i have arcane thesis:major creation, rapid spell, and extend spell, can i put a rapid extended major creation into the delicate disk?
can i also do it without arcane thesis since the metamagic doesnt actually increase the spell level?

q2
i have cl6
i cast suffer the flesh which gives +3cl for 1 round.
i start casting major creation in that round, but it is finished 10minutes later.
does the major creation succeed at cl9
or does it fail because my cl dropped to 6 by the time it finished casting?

q3
if its the latter, can i cast suffer the flesh (swift action) right before major creation finishes casting?

q4
does uncanny forethought let you cast extended major creation as a standard action if you use those specially prepared spell slots?

[TalonOfAnathrax]

Q1: Yes. Heighten Spell (and arguably Sanctum Spell) change spell level, the others just make it require a higher-level slot without actually changing what spell level it is. So if you have a high-level slot available to actually cast the spell, you can put a heavily metamagicked spell into a Delicate Disc.

Q4: That should work. It should also work with Alacritous Cogitation, IIRC.

[newguydude1]

Q1: Yes. Heighten Spell (and arguably Sanctum Spell) change spell level, the others just make it require a higher-level slot without actually changing what spell level it is. So if you have a high-level slot available to actually cast the spell, you can put a heavily metamagicked spell into a Delicate Disc.

im just worried about this part

Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.

but i guess i worried for nothing.


Q4: That should work. It should also work with Alacritous Cogitation, IIRC.

no it cant. major creation cast time is 10min. alacritous cogitation has a limit of 1 round casting time.

[sreservoir]

i have cl6
i cast suffer the flesh which gives +3cl for 1 round.
i start casting major creation in that round, but it is finished 10minutes later.
does the major creation succeed at cl9
or does it fail because my cl dropped to 6 by the time it finished casting?


You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect. For example, when casting a summon monster spell, you need not decide where you want the monster to appear (or indeed, what monster you are summoning) until the spell comes into effect in the round after you begin casting.

Considering that range is listed explicitly, and ranges generally depend only on caster level, it seems to follow that you should determine effects based on your caster level at the time when the spell comes into effect, which is just before your turn on the round when you finish casting:


A spell that takes 1 minute to cast comes into effect just before your turn 1 minute later (and for each of those 10 rounds, you are casting a spell as a full-round action, just as noted above for 1-round casting times). These actions must be consecutive and uninterrupted, or the spell automatically fails.

[newguydude1]

Considering that range is listed explicitly, and ranges generally depend only on caster level, it seems to follow that you should determine effects based on your caster level at the time when the spell comes into effect, which is just before your turn on the round when you finish casting:

ok makes sense. thanks.

[Darg]

q3
if its the latter, can i cast suffer the flesh (swift action) right before major creation finishes casting?

I can answer this one, it's up to your DM for the most part according to the PHB. However, you are in the middle of an action that requires concentration and suffer the flesh has verbal, somatic, and material components. Swift action spells do not remove these components. I would find it really hard to allow this type of free action during another casting. Tie the ruby to your arm and make it silent and still and I would allow it. As was said, it's up to the DM as nothing says that things disrupt your casting if your concentration doesn't break. At the very least a concentration check would be appropriate without some form of aid. Not to mention that suffer the flesh forces a concentration check anyway because you damage yourself.

[newguydude1]

I can answer this one, it's up to your DM for the most part according to the PHB. However, you are in the middle of an action that requires concentration and suffer the flesh has verbal, somatic, and material components. Swift action spells do not remove these components. I would find it really hard to allow this type of free action during another casting. Tie the ruby to your arm and make it silent and still and I would allow it. As was said, it's up to the DM as nothing says that things disrupt your casting if your concentration doesn't break. At the very least a concentration check would be appropriate without some form of aid. Not to mention that suffer the flesh forces a concentration check anyway because you damage yourself.

if were using concentration then i cant. cause concentration spells directly say you cant cast another spell while concentration on one. i mean i remember a feat that says you can reduce concentration to a swift action and therefore cast another spell, but i think that is a capability specific to the feat and not a general rule.

i guess im forced to use uncanny forethought to reduce major creations casting time.

[Darg]

if were using concentration then i cant. cause concentration spells directly say you cant cast another spell while concentration on one. i mean i remember a feat that says you can reduce concentration to a swift action and therefore cast another spell, but i think that is a capability specific to the feat and not a general rule.

i guess im forced to use uncanny forethought to reduce major creations casting time.


You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, the DM puts reasonable limits on what you can really do for free.

I would think interrupting a chant and your hand gestures would disrupt ones casting, but everyone's world is different.

You are probably thinking of the skill trick Swift Concentration which can be bought with 2 skill points. It still doesn't let you cast another spell while concentrating though. The only thing I know that let's you do that is the special ability of a spirit shaman.

[newguydude1]

I would think interrupting a chant and your hand gestures would disrupt ones casting, but everyone's world is different.

You are probably thinking of the skill trick Swift Concentration which can be bought with 2 skill points. It still doesn't let you cast another spell while concentrating though. The only thing I know that let's you do that is the special ability of a spirit shaman.

nope. extraordinary concentration feat


Your mind is so focused that you can cast spells even while concentrating on another spell.

anyways

q1 yes
q2 no
q3 no
q4 yes



goddamn it i asked the wrong question.
extended major creation is 5th level but uses a 6th level slot.
is it castable into the delicate disk?