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Meichrob7
2021-02-18, 01:21 PM
This is half out of curiosity, I haven’t seen people discuss individual features super often because you usually have to consider it in the context of when you get it, what the class itself gives/wants, and any other features you may be getting, but I think the individual features are an interesting topic if admittedly a usually useless one for practicality sake.

The other reason I ask is because our DM decided to let us get other class’s subclass features as magic items. My character is a bladesinging wizard who’s a bit more melee focused than casting focused but will still have a high int and some good battlefield control spells.

For that character specifically are there any really strong subclass features? It’s also worth noting that my DM is making the magic items that give the feature have their rarity based off of the level you get the feature at, so really strong early features would be more useful than like capstone abilities.

Jon talks a lot
2021-02-18, 01:37 PM
(I only use the PHB)

Lore Bards have additional magical secrets. The ability to take spells from any spell list as long as you could cast a spell of that level when you choose the spells is really powerful.

Battlemaster fighters have some really powerful manoeuvres.

Moon druids can't die at level 20.

Way of Shadow Monks can teleport at level 6 provided they have a shadow or two to work with.

Oath of Vengeance has Holy Avenger. Once per long rest 60 ft flying speed and causing every enemy within 60 feet of you to become frightened is really powerful, especially when it lasts an hour.

PHB warlock and sorcerer subclasses kind of suck. Though I suppose wild magic surges can be powerful, they still seem very risky and uncommon.

kazaryu
2021-02-18, 01:43 PM
This is half out of curiosity, I haven’t seen people discuss individual features super often because you usually have to consider it in the context of when you get it, what the class itself gives/wants, and any other features you may be getting, but I think the individual features are an interesting topic if admittedly a usually useless one for practicality sake.

The other reason I ask is because our DM decided to let us get other class’s subclass features as magic items. My character is a bladesinging wizard who’s a bit more melee focused than casting focused but will still have a high int and some good battlefield control spells.

For that character specifically are there any really strong subclass features? It’s also worth noting that my DM is making the magic items that give the feature have their rarity based off of the level you get the feature at, so really strong early features would be more useful than like capstone abilities.

as in, an entire subclass worth of features?

divine soul sorcerer has a ton of good features, that really cover a bladesingers weakness. for one, theoretically it'd give you access to cleric spells. but even things like:
favored by the gods: 2d4 to a saving throw 1/sr (or attack roll, but thats probably a suboptimal use of it). hugely helpful if you fail a concentration check, even with the bladesigner bonus'.
unearthly recover: a huge chunk of extra hit points.
otherworldy wings: who doesn't benefit from a fly speed?

swords bard would be great for expanding your offense.

war cleric's war priest and guided strike can both be huge. depending on your wis stat.

Hael
2021-02-18, 01:57 PM
Features that either give you spells or spell slots, or allow you to teleport at will are IMO the strongest in 5e. An example of the latter would be manifest echo and peace cleric lvl6. Example of the former would be magical secrets, arcane abeyance and the new sorcerer subclass spells.

Nothing else really compares outside DM dependant features like high lvl illusion and maybe things that empower skills (eg broken stuff like silver tongue)

Eldariel
2021-02-18, 02:17 PM
If you can cast, the strongest single ability is probably Malleable Illusions at least on level 11+, followed closely by Illusory Reality. Nothing like having infinite Concentration-free illusions that can be used as any kind of BFC at will. And of course it makes Mirage Arcana absolutely stupid. Other abilities of note:
- Portent is pretty ridiculous though it gets somewhat worse when Legendary Resistance enters the picture. It absolutely crushes Magic Resistance though and is generally just interacting with a thing that shouldn't really be interacted with (make PCs face 4-8 level 3-5 Diviners with Portent; even if they're late Tier 3 or even Tier 4, that has the potential to be a miserable experience or a TPK if the Diviners get to cast just once since PCs generally don't have access to Legendary Resistance before level 17 and even then it's only 1 hour per day).
- Any rerolls are really strong. Chronurgist is a good one.
- Gloomstalker's ability to be invisible in Darkvision is a nice boon in a dungeoncrawly game.
- Various Pally capstones are pretty good and Ancients 7 aura is worth mentioning separately. It's defensive and not that gamebreaking but it can be very strong in a magical game.



TL;DR:
1. Malleable Illusions
2. Illusory Reality
3. Portent


Yeah, I think the Top 3 are all Wizard abilities (Bards have lots of good ones too but as long as you don't have Bardic Inspiration, you can't use them even if you had the ability...).

heavyfuel
2021-02-18, 02:18 PM
Portent. It's just unbelievably broken!

2/day you get to say the enemy failed their save or you made yours. Sure, you dn't get to pick which it is, but either is really good.

Best used with spells like Hypniotic Pattern that don't allow multiple saves.

Sandeman
2021-02-18, 02:21 PM
Evoker wizard - Sculpt Spell is very good.
Those fireballs can cover more enemies when you dont have to worry about friendly fire.

stoutstien
2021-02-18, 02:33 PM
For low level options not needing class features to build off of, battle master 3rd level, cleric domain 1st level options , and wizard subclass options are all high value.

Honorable mention for PK skill check protection at 3.

MrCharlie
2021-02-18, 02:34 PM
From each class-
Artificer: The best feature is the steel defender from the battlesmith. In general pet classes are going to rank up there, but the artificers pet is one of the best ones in the game. It has great reactions, scales decently, is commanded as a reaction, and can be repaired by a super common cantrip. If you can get this-which isn't impossible actually, play with golems for a bit or buy one and this is a great way to model it-it's a great use of your bonus action.

Barbarian: Divine fury. 1d6 + half level damage is like a 1/3 power sneak attack every round. That's actually pretty good. Worthless for you.

Bards: Additional Magical secrets is great and does not require bardic inspiration. If we assume you have bardic inspiration then Eloquences unsettling words is the best bard ability in the entire game bar none. If you could get it as a wizard, you're set for life.

Clerics: Emboldening bond from peace clerics, oh my emboldening bond from peace cleric.

Druid: Wildfire spirit if you can somehow get wild shape or moon druids superior wild-shape, but we're making serious allowances about what base features you get here. Star Map from star druid is the best if you don't have wild-shape, and it's a more reasonable thing for a wizard to end up with (and is honestly a fine magic item).

Fighter: Maneuvers are the best thing for fighter bar none. For you, maneuvers are actually still useful-there are a couple that add to skills like investigation, and a couple you can use to defend yourself in melee combat or buff allies. However war magic or improved war magic are also good...if it worked with the new bladesinger cantrip+attack change, which it probably can't.

Monk: Generally quite specialized to use Ki. Hard to find something useful for a wizard-I guess astral self would be a cool emergency melee button.

Paladin: Ancients spell save aura, ho! Alternatively, aura of the sentinel for initiative bonuses.

Ranger: Lolnext. Actually, the new beastmaster in tashas is basically a free summoning spell with no concentration, it'd be great on a wizard. Fey wanderer Fey reinforcements is also incredibly good on a wizard, and the green fey cascade initiated by summoning a new fey creature every round is a great way to overwhelm an encounter.

Rogue: Mage hand legerdmain.

Sorcerer: Trance of order from clockwork soul full stop. CON saves auto-making DC 10 is amazing by itself, but that this applies to all saves is amazing. By the math it's worth at least +2 to all rolls on average, but in practice for many checks it just removes your failure mode entirely.

Warlock: Hexblades curve technically works with a lot of wizard features. Some people try to railgun with magic missile-it's 104 ish damage with hexblades curse up because the bonus adds to each missile (people try to stack more on, which is quite...ambiguous, rules wise.)

Wizard: Portent, illusory reality, every abjurer feature except projected ward, Arcane deflection and tactical wit from war mage....you're super saturated with great options. Which makes sense-they were designed for wizard. However it sounds like you can't take them, which is a shame-arcane deflection or arcane ward on a bladesinger would be very good.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2021-02-18, 02:39 PM
Cleric
Death domain, 1st level ability Reaper. Select Toll the Dead as the cantrip learned.
Order domain, 1st level ability Voice of Authority. Useful if you're casting beneficial spells on allies.
Twilight domain, 1st level ability Eyes of Night.

Meichrob7
2021-02-18, 02:39 PM
as in, an entire subclass worth of features?

divine soul sorcerer has a ton of good features, that really cover a bladesingers weakness. for one, theoretically it'd give you access to cleric spells. but even things like:
favored by the gods: 2d4 to a saving throw 1/sr (or attack roll, but thats probably a suboptimal use of it). hugely helpful if you fail a concentration check, even with the bladesigner bonus'.
unearthly recover: a huge chunk of extra hit points.
otherworldy wings: who doesn't benefit from a fly speed?

swords bard would be great for expanding your offense.

war cleric's war priest and guided strike can both be huge. depending on your wis stat.

To clarify it’s a single subclass feature, not all of the features from the subclass.

diplomancer
2021-02-18, 03:42 PM
Not the most powerful, but probably my favourite one is the Conquest Paladin 7th level Aura. Locking down all the baddies is sure fun.

dmhelp
2021-02-18, 04:25 PM
To clarify it’s a single subclass feature, not all of the features from the subclass.

So just one feature, not everything they get at that level?

I'd ask for one of:

Bard - Magical Secrets

Fighter - Combat Superiority or Improved War Magic

Ranger - Planar Warrior

Rogue - Magical Ambush or Use Magic Device

Sorcerer - Elemental Spells

Warlock - Hex Warrior modified to int instead of cha

Wizard - Empowered Evocation or Portent

JellyPooga
2021-02-18, 04:26 PM
I've got to put a shout in for Fast Hands (Thief Rogue). It doesn't seem like much on the surface, but can be insanely useful. Just having a resourceless use for your bonus action every turn is golden (and if you can't find a uss for it every turn, you ain't trying!).

Compared to Mage Hand Legerdemain (its closest counterpart) it has several advantages;
- No prep time. MHL requires you have Mage Hand active and that's a big deal, not only in terms of Action economy but also stealth.
- No weight limit beyond your own strength. Also useful in conjunction with unlisted ability checks (e.g. Athletics)
- Can Use an Object, including terrain manipulation. Contextually powerful outside of white-room scenarios.

stoutstien
2021-02-18, 04:43 PM
I've got to put a shout in for Fast Hands (Thief Rogue). It doesn't seem like much on the surface, but can be insanely useful. Just having a resourceless use for your bonus action every turn is golden (and if you can't find a uss for it every turn, you ain't trying!).

Compared to Mage Hand Legerdemain (its closest counterpart) it has several advantages;
- No prep time. MHL requires you have Mage Hand active and that's a big deal, not only in terms of Action economy but also stealth.
- No weight limit beyond your own strength. Also useful in conjunction with unlisted ability checks (e.g. Athletics)
- Can Use an Object, including terrain manipulation. Contextually powerful outside of white-room scenarios.

Only issue is fast hands need cunning action to work which by my reading it's subclass features only.

Thialfi
2021-02-18, 04:57 PM
I'm a long time 2e player that just started playing 5E when COVID hit, so I don't have a lot of experience. I may be biased toward the only three characters that I have played (Tiefling dragon sorcerer, wood elf zealot barbarian, human diviner wizard), but I think these abilities are pretty darned strong.

Portent - It helps that I have rolled lots of extreme numbers. This feature never fails to have a big impact on playing session. Even when I have middling rolls, I've used them to make sure that the spell scroll for fly got copied properly into my spell book.

Rage Beyond Death - I haven't got there yet with my barbarian, but how can this be anything other than amazing? I play my barbarian to be tanky and she is certainly a damage sponge. Damage sponge with practically unlimited HP seems real good.

JellyPooga
2021-02-18, 05:39 PM
Only issue is fast hands need cunning action to work which by my reading it's subclass features only.

We're staunchly in houserule territory. GM may be willing to grant the bonus action to use Fast Hands despite not having Cunning Action. Definitely worth asking.

Another thing to consider is the OP is a Bladesinger with a focus on battlefield control. That means that not only will he have the free hand necessary to utilise Fast Hands to use objects and manipulate terrain, but it fits the control theme.

Kane0
2021-02-18, 06:47 PM
Low levels
Extra Attack (Artificer, Bard, Wizard)
Eldritch Cannon (Artillerist)
Bolstering Magic (Wild Barbarian)
Warrior of the Gods (Zealot)
Silver Tongue (Eloquence)
Universal Speech (Eloquence)
Mantle of Majesty (Glamour)
Reaper (Death)
Dampen Elements (Nature)
Voice of Authority (Order)
Emboldening Bond (Peace)
Eyes of Night (Twilight)
Spirit Totem (Shepherd)
Arcane Shot (Arcane Archer)
Combat Superiority (Battlemaster)
Rune Carver (Rune Knight)
Giant Might (Rune Knight)
Hour of Reaping (Long Death)
Shadow Step (Shadow)
Gathered Swarm (Swarmkeeper)
Assassinate (Assassin)
Restore Balance (Clockwork)
Favored by the Gods (Divine Soul)
Hexblade Curse (Hexblade)
Bladesong (Bladesinger)


Mid Levels
Hidden Paths (Dreams)
Curving Shot (Arcane Archer)
Warding Maneuver (Cavalier)
Rapid Strike (Samurai)
Unerring Eye (Inquisitive)
Trance of Order (Clockwork)
Dragon Wings/Angelic Form (Draconic/Divine Soul)
Shadow Walk (Shadow)
Accursed Spectre (Hexblade)
Thought Shield (Great Old One)

High Levels
Chemical Mastery (Alchemist)
Retaliation (Berserker)
Unbreakable Majesty (Glamour)
Improved Reaper (Death)
Saint of Forge & Fire (Forge)
Supreme Healing (Life)
Vigilant Defender (Cavalier)
Superior Critical (Champion)
Survivor (Champion)
Opportunist (Shadow)
Thief's Reflexes (Thief)
Warping Implosion (Aberrant Mind)
Clockwork Cavalcade (Clockwork)
Spell Resistance (Abjurer)


Any Paladin Channel, Aura or Capstone
Virtually anything from Fey, Gloom, Horizon, Hunter or Slayer Ranger
Virtually anything from Fey, Fathomless, Fiend or Genie Warlock
Virtually anything from Conjurer, Diviner, Enchanter, Evoker, Illusionist, Transmuter, War Magic or Scribes Wizard

Edit: That's not counting features that scale by class level (eg Beast Compaion, Iron Defender, Balm of the Summer Court, Fighting Spirit) or use Class resources (eg Rage, Wildshape, Ki, Sorcery Points). If you had magic items that incorporate those the list expands some more.

5eNeedsDarksun
2021-02-18, 07:41 PM
Hex Warrior
Effectively Makes a MAD class (or a Paladin dip) a SAD class and is thus worth 2+ free ASIs by 8th (or 9th) level. And that's on top of the armor/ shield/ weapon benefits.

MrStabby
2021-02-18, 08:47 PM
So there is a general and a specific answer. Generally being what is good for a lot of classes, and specifically being what it good for a bladesinger.

I am assuming that tools that need prerquisites are not included - so additional magical secrets won't give you spell slots or tools that need bardic inspitation or trigger whilst raging are out. References to class are changed to the class of choice (so if you get something like Arcane Initiate that makes a wizard spell a cleric spell for you, it makes it a bard spell instead if you are a bard) and spellcasting ability references changed. I assume other references are not - for example the feature that gives paladin domain spells gives them at the level specified even if you are a full caster.

I am also guessing that the rarity of the item has a passing realtionship with the level at which the ability will be gained.




I think it is helpful to divide general up between martial and caster and both:

Martial:
Mantle of majesty
War Priest (a bundle of extra attacks per day is good on an archer - others may have other bonus action options.
Combat superiority (just a really flexible boost - sure, it will miss the upgrades but its still OK)
Spellcasting (either from eldritchknight or arcane trickster - it will tend to add a lot to a martial class that otherwise might be limited in its abilites)
Dread ambusher (extra speed, exta attacks, every combat... just nice)
Distant strike (frequently an extra attack as a subclass ability but also great mobility as well)
Magic user's nemesis (some classes specify their save as being based on str/dex like the battle master, might add a lot of extra power to that kind of class in a spellcasting rich campaign.)
Arcane deflection (low cost bonus to AC and saves... and you were not going to be casting spells anyway)

Caster
Extra attack (means no need for offensive spells, also cleric with heavy armour, spirit guardians, divine strike and two attacks? yum.)
Battle ready (int to attack rolls and damage is nice for wizards, martial weapon proficieny is just a bonus)
Bonus Proficiencies (get heavy armour and martial weapons on a caster)
Voice of authority (very powerful support ability -relies on the right spell list though)
Embodiment of law (another order cleric option, even just 5 times a day getting a bonus action spell is awesome - when it can be hold person/monster AND if you have two attacks it can be ver dangerous)
Spell Breaker (depends on the class spell list and the campaign, but a free dispell magic on each of your spells is glorious)
Natural recovery (who doesn't like more spell slots? Great on classes like the paladin who might run short easily)
Circle spells (So for a sorcerer or bard who might have a bit fewer spells... they want more then this offers a choice)
Mighty Summoner (I would be tempted to say this is a bit niche, but with Eberrorn races and ravnica backgrounds giving access to relevent spells, it seems powerful still)
Manifest Echo (adds so much power and versatility in one single ability, even if you rarely take the atack action it is still very powerful)
Eldritch Strike (attack to give disadvantage on spell saves is really powerful - especially nice if you underestimate a fight. You have been attacking then discover you really need to lay down some spell effects. Also great with bonus action spells you want to take effect on the same turn like paladin smites).
Otherworldly glamour (Ok, so if you are a charisma caster - or just one with a high charisma, this lets you add your charisma bonus again to counterspells)
Magical ambush (forcing disadvantage is both powerful and hard. This ability is gated behind a bundle of levels in aclass with only low level spells - remove those restrictions and go to town)
Clockwork magic/psionic spells (a great way to access more spells. It powerful for the sorcerer, but great for a cleric/druid wanting access to spells from the warlock/wizard list)
Hex warrior (if you know you can get this and can build a character round it then it is very powerful, otherwise a minor boost)
Split enchantment (doubling enchantment spells isn' as good as it looks... but its still pretty awesome)
Illusiory reality (stupidly powerful)
Undead thralls (lots of classes can get animate dead, now they can all be effective necromancers as well)





All
Unbreakable majesty
Sould of the forge (great defensive buff)
Saint of forge and fire (great defensive buff, less good without heavy armour)
Blessings of knowledge (a great out of combat buff for anyone, but might be more attractive to warriors)
Dampen elements (an obscenely powerful reaction tool that never runs out - excells if your DM likes fireballing the party)
Emboldening bond (obscene peace cleric ability - buffs, no concentration long duration - slightly offset as you won't get the upgrade from 6th level)
Avatar of battle (like saint of forge and fire but doesn't need heavy armour - good either for tanking of for passing concentration saves)
Hidden Paths (teleporting is useful for everyone, I would say casters can get other tools, but this might be better)
Shadow step (another great teleporting ability. revolusionises any character. Bonus for casters as it lets you cast other spells unlike misty step)
Beguling twist (great mental defenses. Added bonus if you have friendly mages casting spells like fear
Umbral sight (for a level 3 ability, it is really powerful - it depends how much you do in the dark though)
Dark one's own luck (a great ability that often gets overlooked. Boosting counterspells, initiative, saves... any crucial roll and refreshes on a short rest. Less good if there is a bard in the party)
Hurl through hell (a once per day ability would need to be obscene to make the list, and this is. 10d10 hard to resist damage and a no-save removal of an enemy from combat for a round)
Portent ('nuff said)
Instinctive charm (I think this is an underrated ability, near at-will redirection of attacks is so powerful)

Lavaeolus
2021-02-18, 11:40 PM
My character is a bladesinging wizard who’s a bit more melee focused than casting focused but will still have a high int and some good battlefield control spells.

There might be some difference here between what I think's the most mechanically-optimal options for your general Bladesinger Wizard, and what I think might support what this character focuses on. I'm going to focus on the latter, and to that end I'll look at features that 1) primarily enhance weapon attacks and melee fighting, 2) still leave some room for other casting. I'm also going to focus on what's offered at 3rd-level or lower.

There's some ambiguity in -- so, if a Bard feature mentions a Charisma modifier, do you get to swap it to Intelligence? I'll run with an assumption of 'no'.

Let's look at what some classes offer, then.

Fighter: Even limited to four superiority dice and three maneuvers, Battle Master's Combat Superiority is still quite nice. I think it's also one of the more interesting options you could take, since it'll give you some extra options with your attacks. Assuming you're using Tasha's Bladesinger and its enhanced Extra Attack, remember: if a maneuver says it works with 'a weapon attack', it should work with cantrips like Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade. Samurai's Fighting Spirit would also be nice to have.

Bard: At level-6 Additional Magical Secrets is always nice, and hell, Lore's Bonus Proficiencies or Eloquence's Silver Tongue are strong in their own right if your campaign rewards skill-use. Swords Bard can grab you a Fighting Style and unlike Champion is given at 3rd-level, but it's limited to the Dueling and Two-Weapon Fighting styles.

Rogue: Well, I'm sure your team would appreciate you having Mastermind's Master of Tactics (and unlike Thief, as a usually-irrelevant quirk this isn't written as an expansion of Cunning Action). But what strikes me is Swashbuckler's Fancy Footwork, which may be useful for moving around on the battlefield. Even with Bladesong, you're after all probably on the more fragile side. At higher subclass levels, Scout and Thief have some other mobility options that may be worth looking at.

Ranger: Hunter offers a bit of extra damage / an extra weapon attack. Swarmkeeper's Gathered Swarm can similarly offer a bit of damage, but can also be used to move you 5ft -- potentially useful as a sort of Disengage.

clash
2021-02-19, 11:50 PM
Glamor bards mantle of inspiration is better than both sculpt spell and careful spell combined. Not only does it let your teammates effectively avoid any aoe you throw out it also gives temp hp and helps positron teammates not in the area.

MrStabby
2021-02-20, 05:43 AM
Glamor bards mantle of inspiration is better than both sculpt spell and careful spell combined. Not only does it let your teammates effectively avoid any aoe you throw out it also gives temp hp and helps positron teammates not in the area.

The trouble is that it's only better if your class gives you a source of bardic inspiration to use with it. Having the ability but zero inspiration per rest isnt really optimal.

Still, very powerful ability.