Help me make this work (Barbarian/paladin)

[Seekergeek]

Our current campaign is wrapping up in the next session or two, and we've settled on running mad mage (skipping dragon heist). Through a series of session zero decisions and fun party random generation processes, I will be playing a Satyr with levels in wild magic barbarian and oath of the ancients paladin. Not the most optimized combo by any stretch but I'm really happy to do what I can to make it work. Generally I'm wondering about the best level split between the two. Background is also up for free choice. We have a rogue in the party so my ususal inclination of urchin or criminal is probably not necessary. My stats are, in order, 18, 14, 16, 9, 8, 13 having put my floating ASIs in STR and CON.

I do feel like there are some intriguing synergies between the classes and race:

- Spell resistance from Satyr on top of B/P/S resistance from rages and, eventually, damage resistance to spells from the oath aura.
- Smites and CD work just fine while rageing.
- Bolstering magic allows for a semi-bless that can run while I rage to offset a penalty if I choose to go with GWM at some point (and why wouldn't I?), as well as allowing me to refresh spell slots I've used to smite.

We're starting at level 5, and again, I'm set with Barbarian 3/Paladin 2 as the starting spread because of the way we set things up.

I'm wondering how you would see the best progression after that. Looking at things, getting both the seventh level paladin aura and the 6th level wild magic feature seem appealing that doubles up on extra attack which isn't ideal. Getting improved divine smite also seems like a no brainer, but our tables nearly never break level 10 so given that this module goes to 20, I'm out of my element with a higher level build - particularly with the restrictions I've got (even though from an RP perspective I'm thrilled with what is going on there).

edited for clairity.

[Rukelnikov]

Well, your build seems pretty much done. You already have your subclasses and ability scores array, you know you will start as Barb3/Pally2, and your table rarely goes past 10 and you wanna get to Barb 6/Pally7, thats already 13 levels, so you may not even get to those.

The only things left to decide are the order in which to take your levels, what to spend the ASIs on, and the Fighting Style.

I'd go Barb all the way to 6 for 2 reasons, you should try to get Extra Attack ASAP and Barb is closer to it than Pally, and also you are closer to the Barb feature that you want than the Pally one. So just go all the way to Barb 6, and then lvl up Pally up to 7 (if you indeed make it to lvl 13).

Barb 4 ASI should go to GWM if you plan on ever getting it.
Pally 4 should go to a CHA half feat, you are approaching Pally 6 and only have a +1 CHA. Fey Touch or Shadow Touch would be my recommendations although, Telekinetic can be used while raging so maybe that one is more appealing to you.

As for the Style, I understand you plan on using a two handed weapon, therefore:

Great Weapon Fighting is mechanically ok (~ +1.2 avg damage per attack)
Defense probably won't make that much of a difference if you are gonna be constantly Reckless Attacking, specially with a two handed weapon since that means no shield. Going from AC 17 to 18 won't mean much when everyone is attacking you with advantage.
Interception lets you work a bit better as a tank since you'll be reducing damage other party members take, and you don't have much uses for your reaction yet.
Blind Fighting can be situationally very good.

[Seekergeek]

Really good advice, thank you! I was thinking getting to extra attack quickly made the most sense but I didn't really know if one level was enough of a difference to practically matter.

I should have been clear: we rarely go above 10, but this module goes to 20.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I'd lean heavily Barb. As you say, the 2 5th levels are very redundant. Also Paladin 6 isn't great either because your Chr score is only going to get you +1 aura. Paladin 4 would be the absolute max in my mind with your current build.

[Seekergeek]

Are improved divine smite and the resistance aura at 7 not worth pursuing on the paladin side?

[dmhelp]

You could get the barb 6 then because your cha is low and aura not too impressive just go pure caster to feed spell slots you can smite while raging. You could do wild magic sorc even?

[5eNeedsDarksun]

Are improved divine smite and the resistance aura at 7 not worth pursuing on the paladin side?

For me, no. I mean you are taking a hit not only on your 6th aura (which I'd value as one of the best abilities in the game), but your channel divinity, available spells, and spell saves.
For a small dip committing to a few smites when you want to nova seems an ok idea and thematic if that's what you want to play. However, if I'm playing mostly a Paladin I want a good saving throw bump at 6th and the ability to occasionally cast an attack spell beyond just smiting. With your number of spells and low DC you're kind of limiting yourself there.
That said, I do know some posters who value the attack stat way more than Charisma on Paladins, and you certainly can (for example) summon a mount, then use every other slot you get to smite, so it's not unworkable.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

You could get the barb 6 then because your cha is low and aura not too impressive just go pure caster to feed spell slots you can smite while raging. You could do wild magic sorc even?

I like this idea for what I think the OP is trying to accomplish. Bar 6/ Pal 2/ Sorc X provides the ability to smite and gives a faster spell progression than just Paladin.

[dmhelp]

I like this idea for what I think the OP is trying to accomplish. Bar 6/ Pal 2/ Sorc X provides the ability to smite and gives a faster spell progression than just Paladin.

I was thinking you can use either wild magic barbarian or sorcery points to regain spell slots (divine smites).

You can use reckless attack combined with frequent use of tides of chaos to get advantage (potentially recharging it with a 1st level sorcerer spell wild surge depending on the dm).

When you are out of rages you can combine weapon attacks with quickened spells.

At level 20 you would be Barb 6/Pal 2/Sor 12 and have 7th level spell slots and 6th level spells.

[Seekergeek]

I can get behind that idea! Would you take barb to six and then finish out with sorcerer? I’m worried about the lower HP on the balance compared to running with paladin but I guess that’s probably not a huge deal. Would divine soul be a better sorcerer option to broaden my spell choices?

[dmhelp]

I can get behind that idea! Would you take barb to six and then finish out with sorcerer? I’m worried about the lower HP on the balance compared to running with paladin but I guess that’s probably not a huge deal. Would divine soul be a better sorcerer option to broaden my spell choices?

Yeah get barb 6 first.

If you want better spells divine soul is good. If you want 12 more hp could do draconic.

[MrStabby]

Also, if you consider paladin to be a fine number of HP, then with your extra you get from barbarian over that you have 7 levels of sorcerer before you begin to fall behind on average. So with 6 barbarian, 2 paladin, 6 sorcerer you are looking at 15th levelbefore you fall behind. This is probably something you can live with.

[5eNeedsDarksun]

I can get behind that idea! Would you take barb to six and then finish out with sorcerer? I’m worried about the lower HP on the balance compared to running with paladin but I guess that’s probably not a huge deal. Would divine soul be a better sorcerer option to broaden my spell choices?

A few HP here or there: meh.
For Sorc subclass (and that's down the road) I'd be looking at 1) your level 1 and 6 subclass abilities for things that are impactful and don't involve casting spells in combat and 2) maybe some out of combat spells.
Based on that I kind of like Shadow for you as the hound will help your combat and gives you a good use for your sorcery points or maybe Divine Soul.